CaV: 6 Way Battle - Legendary Debate! (Open For Votes)

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comic_book_fan

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#51  Edited By comic_book_fan

do we have to post the info or can i just attack someone.

what the heck everyone else is doing it.

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Powers and Abilities

The Juggernaut is one of the strongest and most powerful physical beings in the Marvel Universe, capable to go toe to toe with strongest heroes. Cain Marko is powered by the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, which is a conduit Cyttorak uses to channel his magical energies into his avatar. Much like Jean Grey wielding only a fraction of the Phoenix Force yet retaining immense power, Cain Marko only wields a portion of of Cyttorak's power, yet also retains immense power. As the Juggernaut, Marko possesses endless superhuman strength or kinetic power, being capable of shattering mountains, lifting and using buildings as weapons, and with unlimited physical durability.

Superhuman Strength: With it he has immense strength that far exceeds the ability to lift 100 tons effortlessly. Similarly, due to the mystical nature of his powers granted by an external source of limitless magic as the Gem of Cyttorak, Juggernaut can increase his physical strength to immeasurable levels with a simple thought when he needs it. In this sense, Juggernaut has the strength-increasing option due his potential to draw on the limitless power of the mystical energy of Cyttorak, which makes him a truly unstoppable force.

In terms of strength feats, Juggernaut has knocked out Cyttorak in his own realm, where he is considered above Galactus and the Celestials themselves (X-Men Unlimited #12, 1996). Also Juggernaut has toppled the mighty cosmic entity Stranger with one punch, who'd grown to about 50 feet tall (X-Men Forever #6, 2001). Juggernaut has been able to subdue through his physical force or knock out several powerhouses such as: Thing, Colossus, Blob, Venom, Captain Britain, Rhino, Thunderstrike, Prime, Skaar, Hulk, Rulk, Thor, Exemplars, among numerous others. Not to mention the Juggernaut’s superhuman strength easily rivals and possibly surpasses that of World War Hulk, who is the strongest incarnation of Hulk. In fact, Juggernaut was developed as one of the few characters (if not the unique) who being a human being can not be defeated by physical means or raw strength. Also, the limits of Juggernauts strength are unknown simply because of the fact it stems from his Cyttorak himself.

Possessed by the Trion’s own dark side by tapping into Cyttorak’s power, the Juggernaut was enabled to physically crush and tear down multiple dimensional barriers by punching them with his physical force, in order to find and kill the powerful Trion Gods (creators of the Triple Evil force). During his rampage, the Juggernaut ripped through the continuum space and time to pass out from one dimension to another, which caused the merger of several dimensions. Moreover, Juggernaut was able to split the very fabric of space-time itself whose rupture was expanding through the unearthly Trion’s universe in which he was (X-Men # 88, 1999 and Uncanny X-Men #369, 1999).

Digging into the bedrock
Digging into the bedrock

He can dig effortlessly into the bedrock, enduring unimaginable compressive forces under the earth's surface with pressures of hundreds of thousands cubic meters of rocks, clay and stone over all his body. Also Marko was able to use an estimated strength of hundreds billions of metric tons to fracture the North American tectonic plates by digging into the bedrock with his bare fists along hundreds of kilometers. He was crushing and displacing all the mass of solid layers of rocks, which by the action of gravity were trying to crush him. This represents one of his most impressive feats of strength and durability (The Amazing Spider-Man #629, 2010). Previously, in a similar event, the Juggernaut withstood the weight and dug himself out of a trillion tons of rock and rubble that fell on him (Uncanny X-Men #12).

Juggernaut’s punches cause massive earthquakes on the Richter magnitude 8 scale (Incredible Hulk #602, 2009). Fighting against an army brigade, Juggernaut punched the ground so hard it created an earthquake that cracked through a whole valley and shattered a hill that crumbled down on them (Uncanny X-Men #33, 1963). On other occasion, fighting against his fellow exemplar Stonecutter in a toe-to-toe battle, the punches they threw to one another caused earthquakes and was said to be the greatest fury ever unleashed on Earth (Juggernaut: The Eighth Day #4, 1999).

Juggernaut almost killed Thor by snatching up him in a bearhug that Thor couldn't break free from. Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed, however his life was saved by the intervention of Bedlam‘s psionic attack that pulled Thor away from Juggernaut (The Mighty Thor #17, 1999).

In a test of strength with their hands locked in a grapple or strength lock, the Juggernaut was able to push back the strongest incarnations of Hulk many times (Savage Hulk, War Hulk and World War Hulk), proving that his endless kinetic strength (forward momentum) is unstoppable (Marvel Adventure Hulk # 10, 2008; The Incredible Hulk #457, 1997; World War Hulk - X-Men # 3, 2007). However, should be pointed, the second version of Hulk, boosted with Apocalypse's enhancements which increased his strength far beyond his limits, had already been pushed back all over Egypt by Juggernaut just until the time when Hulk was able to pause him for a second, matching his strength. However, Hulk was aware that he could not hold it for too long which is why he used the whip to grab Juggernaut by the feet and throw him enough away to remove him from the battlefield.

In one of his many fights with Hulk, wearing street clothes instead his armor, the Juggernaut nearly drowned the Hulk by forcing Hulk's head underwater with one hand. Hulk had to use silt from the riverbed in Juggernaut's eyes to make the Juggernaut release his grip on his neck and save his own life, because Hulk could not release himself by his own strength. Later, the Juggernaut knocked out the Hulk by pummeling him with his fists; Juggernaut put the Hulk in a chokehold with one arm and punched once his face with the other hand, almost killing him. When the Juggernaut was about to deal a final blow to kill the Hulk, Red Skull had to order the Juggernaut to stop himself (The Incredible Hulk #402, 1993).

Shattered a wall 50 times the tensile strength of battleship steel as though it were a "thin layer of plywood"(Uncanny X-Men #12, 1963).

Temporally trapped in 40-foot cocoon of solid steel, the Juggernaut exploded out in violent way just by flexing his arms (Thor #412, 1989).

Juggernaut collapsed a whole skyscraper (a World Trade Center tower) with a ram of his shoulder (Spider-Man #16, 1991).

A Juggernaut's punch sent Captain Britain into digging a mile long trench in the ground with his body (Excalibur #3, 1988).

He knocked out several of the Generation-X members simply by clapping his hands together (Generation-X #61, 2000).

Colossus embodied in the Juggernaut was able to push back the Kuurth (original Juggernaut/Cain Marko boosted by Asgardian Serpent) and almost killed him by pummeling with his fists in a rampage of destruction caused by the overwhelming power of Cyttorak. The Serpent was forced to teleport Kuurth back at his castle before he could lose his avatar (Uncanny X-Men # 543).

The Juggernaut/Colossus knocked out the Thing once again (Avengers vs. X-Men #3) and on bloodlust mode nearly killed Rulk (Uncanny X-Men #11). In this case, is pointed out that Juggernaut/Colossus carried away by his anger (demonic form) was about to kill Rulk swiftly and easily. However he didn't want to snap the pillar which supports Utopia along with Rulk, so he powered down before he was consumed by the bloodlust of Cyttorak’s powers which had turned on him in his unstoppable demonic form. Colossus self-restricted of the Juggernaut’s powers and in his most vulnerable state left himself to be defeated by Rulk.

Superhuman Speed: Despite juggernauts huge size, his leg muscles allow him to run at superhuman speed, being able to reach speeds of 600 miles per hour, near the speed of sound (Mach's number) and possibly more.

Invulnerability: An invisible force field surrounding Juggernaut's body allows him to be completely immune to any purely physical attack no matter its magnitude or intensity. While Juggernaut can still be thrown, knocked back, or hit by blows, he cannot actually be damage by brute force or physical in nature. In simple terms, Juggernaut cannot be defeated by anything that requires physical application. Juggernaut proved to be invulnerable to fire, heat, cold, electricity, radiation, toxins, aging, disease, molten steel, Hulk's strongest punches, Thor's God-force blast (which caused Galactus to run away for his life on one occasion and broke the prime Celestial’s protective dome), Wolverine's adamantium claws, the maximum force of Cyclops' optic blasts (which is said had enough force to rip a small planet in half), molecular disintegration by a reality warper (Onslaught and D'Spayre boosted with a fraction of Cyttorak’s energy which granted him a nigh-unlimited power), even he could not be destroyed or wiped out from existence by the void of Oblivion or Entropy.

Durability: Juggernaut possesses limitless superhuman durability. Even without his force-field,Juggernaut´s natural durability proved to be great enough to withstand powerhouse blows from Thor.

Healing Factor: Juggernaut can be harmed just by mystical weapons, cosmic levelers (such as Captain Universe and Onslaught), and extra-dimensional beings. If he is harmed, the gem powering him will regenerate any and all wounds instantly without scarring. He has been reduced to skeleton by D'Spayre(boosted to a reality warper level) at one point and completely regenerated within seconds. As long as there is a single molecule of Cain's being, he is unable to die, implying that Juggernaut has one of the fastest healing factors in Marvel.

Self-Sustenance: The mystical energies of the gem flowing through Cain's veins completely sustain him, meaning the Juggernaut can survive indefinitely without food, water, or air, rendering him immortal. In addition, Juggernaut is unable to tire or fatigue no matter the physical exertion his body puts out.

Unstoppable Momentum: Once juggernaut gains momentum, nothing can stop him. Although things such as large mountains and the Hulk have been able to slow him down, he still runs forward. On one point, Juggernaut was reduced to a skeleton and still he did not stop.

Armor: Juggernaut's armor is indestructible from physical forces (except for his helmet, which serves protect him from telepathy or psionics attacks), and can be summoned at will. If somehow destroyed by a reality warper or cosmic-leveler, Juggernaut can always make a new costume.

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Kryptonian Physiology: Under the effects of a "yellow" sun, Superman possesses the same potential powers as an average Kryptonian. These include:

  • Solar Energy Absorption: Under optimal conditions, this is the main source of Superman's super powers as they are contingent upon exposure to solar radiation from a yellow sun star system. His biological make up includes a number of organs which lack analogues in humans and whose functions are unknown. It is believed that between one or more of these and his bio-cellular matrix, "yellow" solar energy is stored for later use. This allows for the use of these powers to fade when yellow solar radiation is not available instead of immediate failure.
  • Heat Vision: Superman can, as a conscious act, fire beams of intense heat at a target by looking at it. He can vary the heat and area affected.
  • Super-Hearing: Superman' hearing is sensitive enough to hear any sound at any volume or pitch. With skill and concentration, he can block out ambient sounds to focus on a specific source or frequency.
  • Enhanced Vision Superman's vision processes the entire electromagnetic spectrum as well as allowing vast control over selective perception and focus.
    This umbrella ability includes the following:
    • Electromagnetic Spectrum Vision: Superman can see well into most of the electromagnetic spectrum. He can see and identify radio and television signals as well as all other broadcast or transmitted frequencies. Using this ability, he can avoid detection by radar or satellite monitoring methods. This also allows him to see the aura generated by living thing.
    • Telescopic Vision: This is the ability to see something at a great distance, without violating the laws of physics. Though limited, the exact extent of the ability is undetermined. In function, it is similar to the zoom lens on a camera.
    • X-Ray Vision: This is the ability to see through any volume of matter except lead. Superman's can see things behind a solid, opaque object as if it were not there. He can focus this ability to "peel back" layers of an object, allowing hidden image or inner workings to be observed. The exact type of energy perceived - such as x-rays, cosmic rays, or some other energy invisible to normal humans - is unclear. This ability perceives an ambient energy source though, it does not involve the eye projecting a concentrated, possibly toxic, beam to be reflected back from objects.
    • Microscopic Vision: This is the ability to see extremely small objects and images down to the atomic level.
    • Infrared Vision: Superman's can see with better acuity in darkness, and to a degree in total darkness.
  • Flight: Superman is able to manipulate graviton particles to defy the forces of gravity and achieve flight. This ranges from hovering to moving in any posture, in any direction.
  • Invulnerability: Due to the interaction of his dense molecular structure and supercharged bio-electric aura, Superman is nigh-invulnerable to extreme energy forces. In addition, his extends this protection against toxins and diseases.
  • Superhuman Stamina: Superman is able to maintain continuous strenuous physical action for an indefinite period of time. This based on his body converting yellow solar radiation directly to energy, but is limited by physiological and psychological needs to eat, drink, and sleep.
  • Superhuman Strength: Superman's strength is augmented by yellow solar radiation interacting with the greater than human density, resilience and biological efficiency of his musculature. His strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is this act of conscious will that enables him to perform physical feats that are beyond the mere application force, such as moving a mountain top without said rock crumbling under its own mass.
  • Superhuman Speed: Superman is able to move at incredible speed by sheer force of will. This extends to his perceptions and allows for feats such as catching bullets in mid flight as well as covering vast distances in little or no time.
    This also confers:
  • Super-Breath: Superman is able to create hurricane force winds by exhaling air from his lungs. He can chill the air as it leaves his lungs to freeze targets. He can also reverse the process to pull large volumes of air or vapor into his lungs.

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WollfMyth209

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T4V dammit!

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SupremeGeneration

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Tag.

What Tourney was this?

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HeirToTheKingdom

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#56  Edited By Thor-Parker

I have a feeling this CaV will be a very long but worth read.

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DaDivineKing

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#57  Edited By DaDivineKing

T4V pls. This should be a chaotic cluster ****.

Just the way I like it, too.

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Jiraiya_sageofoil

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Jirou ( the 2nd wolf)

Quick bio

Bio

Jiro is a legendary Gourmet Hunter who is well known as the Knocking Master in the Gourmet Age. Despite his elderly appearance, he is one of the strongest individuals in the world and was one of the three disciples of the legendary and revered "Gourmet God" Acacia. Despite technically being retired, he still, on occasions, went to hunt for ingredients for his own pleasure and like many other well known individuals, he sought the holy and phantasmal ingredient known as GOD.

Before he gained the title of Knocking Master and even before he trained with Acacia, Jiro held a more sinister title, the Rampaging Beast. He gained the title long before Acacia took him under his tutelage as Jiro was raised as a wild and brutal individual by one of the Eight Kings, the Wolf King Guinness.

Powers and Abilities

  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Durability
  • Damage Negation
  • Transformation
  • Appetite energy blast
  • Knocking
  • Regeneration
  • Low level reality warp
  • Time manipulation( only a few seconds)
  • Size and body enhancement

Jirou is physical monster who can bust a planet 659× earth while sealed and having a vast knowledge of knocking techiniques. .

Strength

Casually flicks off the head of a enhanced nitro which have state level durability at minimum

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H

His scream causes a shockwave that affect an island 1000km in diameter

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J

These are baby casual feats for him more impressive will come as we get started.

Now for sani

Sani the heavenly king

The colorful king sani

He doesnt posses the strength that jirou does but his durability ,speed and endurance are high level .Sani/Sunny attacks are quite unique as he uses his gourmet demon through his hair which each act as feelers that can restrain,paralyze, or control opponents it also has the ability to reflect any attack back at the person with the same or multiplied damage. He can also devour them whole and can eat things and spit them back out.

Here's some info on Sunny gourmet demon:

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Abilities

  • Appetite energy

  • Feelers/senors
  • Knocking
  • Attack reflection
  • Regen
  • Body control
  • Energy absorption

Sunny can redirct any attack thrown at them or devour it or paralyze them etc

He also has intuition which allows to know the vital and weak spots of opponent and attack accordingly.

My team also has full knowledge but since neither team has prep and my team is willing to kill immiedately unlike the heroes they usually fight

On mobile next post far more detailed

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@acrokat said:

T4V, looks very interesting.

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Tibbers

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T4V

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HeirToTheKingdom

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T4V

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HitTheAssasin

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One team is so much more powerful than all the others....T4V

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beatboks1

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@hittheassasin: yeah I know, the others should just pack up and go home now ;D

I mean i could have Hellstrom sit it out and let Ultra shine. Given he beat up pre coie e2 Superman, beat the crap out of Powergirl, and took the combined might of Superman, MMH, and Guy Gardner just to subdue. And his physicals arent even his greatest power

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#68  Edited By beatboks1

@thor_parker82: the answer is HTTK psycho-pirate is hax and "can" solo a lot if not everyone here

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#69  Edited By Chimeroid

@beatboks1: it won't be that simple. Psycho Pirate is powerful, but with 12 people on the field (many of which are powerful telepaths) power of one becomes negligible (no matter how much he has).

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#70  Edited By beatboks1

@chimeroid: what I'm scaredbof isnhe stated in his op it was composite Psychopirate. All the info so far is only nu52, but if he pulls enough from before numbers and power arent going to offer much of an out

I'm certainly racking my brain for a means of dealing with it. I know of one feat of Ultra AMPing psychopirate's power, but cant think of a lot of protections if it's used appropriately (and that will be the question).

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HeirToTheKingdom

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#71  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

Round 1: The Debate

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Counters:

Chimeroid

Psycho Pirate didn't become completely immune to TP and is not able to instantly drain limitless psionic powers as he was bested by 3 telepaths in that story allowing Superman to take away the Medusa Mask

Never said any of this, however take in what was said, it took 3 telepaths to allow Superman to defeat Hayden. That's impressive given those three powerhouses all had some impressive showings under their belt. Just goes to show how powerful a telepath he is, not to mention how if other telepaths can barely overcome his mental capabilities, how will others who have none?

I'm aware Apocalypse has overcome some impressive telepathic assaults, however it doesn't matter because Dracula doesn't stand a chance against Hayden and will be bent mentally to his will. Apocalypse can be taken down by the legion of characters Hayden will have once he's taken over multiple characters minds here.

Beatboks1

Though I think Jiraiya's team is the most dangerous in terms of a physical battle, I think your team is the most dangerous overall. I'll just say this from now, your have full knowledge, however you don't you perfect teamwork. Daimon Hellstrom is for sure not going to work well with someone like Ultra. This should cause plenty of conflict between your team, which could leave several openings for my team. Against someone like Brutaal, openings aren't something that you would want to leave seeing as the guy is insanely fast already.

Just so you get an idea of how fast brutaal is so you can understand that if he comes at you, your chance of escaping is low, here is a comparison. New 52 Superman has basically admitted that Earth 2 Superman is much faster than him. Batman/Superman (2013) #12, Kal is shown the past by Kaiyo, who projects him back to see how the Earth 2 heroes were. He sees Martha Kent and Johnathon Kent about to be attacked by Parademons, he rushes to save them, however Earth 2 Superman beats him there easily. Kal even goes as far as to say he beat him to the Parademons effortlessly. What makes this impressive is that Brutaal is every bit equal to Earth 2 Superman as he's cloned from him, not to mention he was further amplified by Darkseid.

Pretty sure Daimon nor Ultra are reacting to that level of speed, which is bad given he has power on a similar level. Brutaal is the clone from Earth 2 Superman, who has been stated to be physically superior to earth 1 Superman. I know it's going to be said that the statement was made before Superman could grow more powerful, but in reality they both would have grown more powerful over time. Here is how Batman describes Earth 2 Superman.

Batman/Superman #9

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What makes it even more notably obvious that Earth 2 Superman is stronger than Earth 1 Superman is that Pre-52 that was the same concept and it seems it's been brought into modern comics too. Also here is a clear indication that Brutaal is more powerful than New 52 Superman. Brutaal was able to destroy nanites in a portal which Batman remarks Superman was incapable of doing, again indicating the difference in overall power. It's even said that Superman shows a little fear to Brutaal's power.

Same issue.

So his initial first attack could actually flat out kill your team. Whether it be from your team arguing because I don't think they'll have the best chemistry, or because Hayden chooses to distract them.

Justice League Of America (1981) #196 - Psycho Pirate can make your team have uncontrollable laughter so they will be distracted and won't attack so Brutaal can strike as many times as he wishes. He can even make your team fear him as he did here. He did both of these things to a group of people watching an old film.

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Thor_Parker82

It seems both heirtothekingdom and beatboks1 have characters that have TP in their powerset, while one may think that could be useful, it´s a non factor against my team thanks to Iron Man and his built-in psychic defenses, Tony can shield himself and Thor from any psychic assault. This ability was shown in "AXIS #1" when Iron Man was the only hero who was not affected by the Red Skull´s telepathy

Don't agree at all. I actually think it's much harder to get by with this argument than before due to the sheer fact that their is 4 other teams here. For starters, Tony's shielding against telepathy isn't automatic (for himself it may be, but not Thor), so he may resist the effects, however Thor isn't so lucky. He has to know telepathy is taking effect in order to activate his shielding, which will likely be too late because 1) there are so many telepaths here, Thor is going to be out of the battle pretty quickly, not to mention all telepaths are going to be fighting over who can manipulate his mind (I think Hayden wins that) and 2) Tony is going to be busy fighting of other characters to be worrying about telepathic assaults on his partner. It will most likely come to Thor having to resist it himself, which I think won't be likely.

Also, it took Tony some time to put up those frequencies to block telepathy, so it's not a set and done solution. Seeing how there are different telepaths operating at different frequencies, I think it's going to be extremely difficult if not impossible to scramble all of them. My team consists of villains who have no qualms on killing, in-fact they seem to like it (especially Brutaal), so they will take any advantage they can get to take down your team.

By the way, to showcase that Thor isn't safe from telepathy, here is three encounters of telepaths weaker than Hayden manipulating his mind.

  • Deadpool Annual #1 - When Madcap and Deadpool were turned to ash by Thor, they regenerated into one being. Deadpool with Madcap's powers, uses telepathy to make Thor and Luke Cage dance around.
  • Uncanny Avengers (2012) #3 - Honest John telepathically manipulates Thor to attack the Avengers Unity group by showing him Odin who gives him the command that the Deviants are attack. Thor then goes to take out Logan and in the next issue fights Havok and Scarlet Witch.

Thor isn't weak against telepathy or in this case emotion manipulation, however he is still subtle as the two showings above depict and if we want to go even further. During the Deviant Saga, Tutinax was present during it. Tutinax has the ability to instill fear in his targets making them fear him.

This is clear that Psycho Pirate is more than capable of altering Thor's emotions to his needs and Thor isn't going to be capable of doing anything about it.

Comic_Book_Fan

You haven't put up anything other than your characters abilities and bio, so there really isn't much to counter here. I will leave you with this however and see how you can deal with it.

Psycho Pirate has already mentally manipulated a Superman lite character in the form of Superboy. He fills Supeboy with rage against Kal-El and he starts saying things he wouldn't normally say. As you can see he has no problem with fighting an ally who he was just fighting alongside with against Kal-L.

Blackest Night: Superman #2

What's stopping Psycho Pirate from manipulating Injustice Superman into fighting against Juggernaut? That would surely be a load off of me seeing as the Juggernaut is invulnerable, not to mention he can resist the telepathic assault. Injustice Superman is capable of keeping his partner occupied, and seeing as how his fighting style sort of differentiates from regular Superman, he will be more keen on tossing Juggernaut into space once he see's he can't harm him. One less problem for me, and more for my opponents because Injustice Superman is now an ally, which means I potentially have Brutaal, Thor, and now him as my attack dogs (possibly more too).

Jiraiya_SageOfOil

In terms of fighting capabilities, your team is by far the most fearsome here. I'm a reader of Toriko, so I know just how powerful they are, however, I also know they haven't really shown telepathic resistance, so it's probable they can mentally taken down. I know i'm going to hear the "intimidation" is related to telepathy argument, which isn't all too bad, however you're going to have to prove it's enough to prevent Hayden from doing what he does best. Judging by the appearance of my team, Psycho Pirate won't be their first target (Brutaal possibly but he can hold his own), so this will allow Hayden to simply put Sani and Jirou to sleep once he see's how devastating their powers are in battle.

Justice League Of America (1981) #196

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@comic_book_fan: @thor_parker82: @jiraiya_sageofoil: @chimeroid: @heirtothekingdom:

Ultra in Battle.

So far All I've discussed in regards Ultra Humanite is his TP powers. I've ignored his physicals, intelligence and his TK. Time to address that.

Ultra started out as a normal scientist, but was dying. He developed the procedure for successful brain transplants in 1939, and put his brain in the body of a movie starlet. He fought superman with his robots and other weapons and was eventually defeated. When he returned he went on a mission to acquire artifacts of power (powerstone, hammer of Thor and Helm of Nabu). it was by imbedding the powerstone in the then HER brow that he gained his mental powers.

His scientific genius covers many fields but top of all genetics. He actually genetically designed his ape body so that he was as physically strong as his mental powers were.

First three scans to show just how much he has been physically enhanced in his Ape body. The last mentions how he developed the mutated ape body, specially designed. (how it became so strong).

So Ultra is a physical match for Brutal, Injustice Superman, Thor etc.

Then there is the little fact that Ultra keeps back up ape bodies ready to transport his brain into should the need arise.

Here while in Johnny Thunders body he controls his spare bodies to assault for him.

So start of the battle he summons his back up bodies. He uses his mental control over his time traveling teleporting base to bring them to him. One of those bodies will grab a little something he pushes them to get before leaving. The device is a time traveler so it will be there instantaneous (not time manip as I haven't changed anything, just used it to make sure it's fast).

There's easily a dozen in the scan and I see no way he could fit any more than that in his teleporting time travel device so lets say that's how many he brings. That's one for every combatant on the field (my own team included to a bodyguard each). More than enough to ensure my team remain unchallenged for a while.

With each of these bodies assaulting my adversaries they will be occupied (especially fighting 4 other teams each) an unable to attack my main team.

Next Ultra will TK remove the medusa mask from Psychopirate and take it for himself. The little thing he will have had one of his bodies bring will be something he worked up for Psychopirate to amp his ability.

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Not only is the power of the pre52 Psychopirate mine but the only weakness to his power (of not being in sight range means it wont affect you) is now gone. Literally every single player on the field will now be emotionally controlled by me. HTTK stated this was Composite Psychopirate and I'm taking hi at his work, because pre 52 SP wasn't a TPer but his ability was more magic based. It worked of the mask giving him emotional powers so that any emotional face made became the emotion that overwhelmed whoever saw it. NOW everyone will see it and literally can't avoid it courtesy of the Psychoprism. Within seconds all the other teams are cowering at my feet in utter terror. Their defenses smashed it will be an easy matter for Ultra to now mind rape them and have them destroy each other.

Ultra will TK remove Jugg's helmet to facilitate this. No one will have the resolve or the control over themselves to enact any defenses to his mental power.

I still have Hellstrom in the hole to pull out and ace anything I may have missed. After all he wouldn't have been standing idle all this time. What he would have done at the outset is erect a force field for protection of my team.

Just in case Thor_parker82 or someone says that they have some protection from TP that wont matter if they are afraid.

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Ultr'a power isn't strictly speaking TP. he maps the neural pathways and controls them. He can accomplish mental dominance over many people (and over great distance or even from other dimensions) but it's not done in the same way as TP so all your protections are for nothing as they aren't geared to what I bring.

You'll notice how easily in the 11th scan on this post he controls Infinity Inc ( the scans to do with mentally controlling his gear and teleporter also) after he assaults them with a brain blast (confirms the whole physically distract which I've also more than done, what with fear and assaulting you with ultra ape back up bodies).

Ultra pretty much solos, but if someone brings up something I missed he has back up not yet used

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#74  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@beatboks1: where is that last scan for Ultra from?

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@beatboks1: where is that last scan for Ultra from?

Powergirl number 2. Same issue he beat the crap out of her in

I'll be honest i thought it was crap (about the TP thing) at the time because he had mentally over powered and controlled so many people over his history ( as well as the fact that the page before she asked him when he got TP when he's had mental powers pretty much since 1942). But when I started reviewing scans I realized he's actually never mentally overcome anyone without assaulting them either physically or with mental blasts first. It also suddenly made sense that he needed the "brain blocker" devices he used to control SO many heroes in the JSA story

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#76 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@beatboks1:

Yeah I was wondering why he had to physically attack someone before TPing, seemed odd to me. I assumed because that it was probably written by someone unfamilar with Ultra since the scan seemed a to more recent than his previous appearances.

I have been slowly reading stories with Ultra after he was introduced in New 52 Earth 2

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@heirtothekingdom: psycho pirate was probably amped as a black lantern i have not read it so i am unsure.

either way superboy resisted later and if he could effect superman why didn't he just directly effect superman who is a good deal more powerful than superboy.

also superman has stronger mental defenses

and psycho pirate's powers usually amplifies what ever the victim is already feeling do you really want to risk making a guy who already wants to rip your head off because he is blood lusted want to do it more.

also that superman had morals and was trying save the day without hurting anyone and even after he was attacked tried to reason.

my superman will rip your spine out faster than you can think.

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Tag plz

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The toriko team is a full tier above the rest.

T4V though.

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#81  Edited By Thor-Parker

@jiraiya_sageofoil: @chimeroid: @beatboks1: @heirtothekingdom: @comic_book_fan:

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Composite Iron Man

This section will be focused on showcasing some of Tony´s feats with his different armors, I´ll not show them all though, since this is just the second post, I´ll start with a quick rundown of his three most popular armors to date.

Here it comes, brace yourself for the might of a composite Iron Man. For this battle, just imagine that Tony has the design of his newest suit (Prime Model) which can shape into anything with the addition of having the stats and feats of all his armors combined in one armor since I´m using a composite version.

Bleeding Edge

This feat is quite interesting, it is both a striking power and durabiliy display, as he strikes with the power of a planet and tanks strikes from the power of multiple planets, He fights against Magneto and the latter states that Tony is siphoning energy from Jupiter and channeling it into his strikes, then he does the same but with multiple planets, yet, still unable to defeat Iron Man in the mini-series "AVX".

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Now let´s turn our head to another mini-series "Thor/Iron Man: God Complex #1-4", in there, Odinson was manipulated into believeing Tony had betrayed him, during their battle, Iron Man took repeated strikes from an angry Thor and was fine afterwards.

Hulkbuster

The famous Hulkbuster, this version was used to fight World War Hulk and actually did a pretty good job and held its own against one of the most powerful versions of Hulk. It did get defeated at the end oonce Hulk got serious, but even then, it is quite impressive since Iron Man fared better than any other hero (besides Sentry). Here is part of the fight which happened in "World War Hulk #1", it is worth to note that Tony tanked several strikes from Hulk and then sent Hulk flying miles away with a punch.

Endo-Sym

This one takes place in "Superior Iron Man #9", Tony while using a special feature of the endo-sym armor was able to overpower the Hulkbuster suit that WWH fought, Tony ripped the suit to pieces and defeated him way easier than World War Hulk did, this alone puts Iron Man on a higher level than WWH.

With the same armor, during "Avengers Vol. 5 #44 " Tony was also able to tank Sol´s hammer explosion which took out Gladiator and all of the Shi´ar fleet with a single blast. Here´s a quick explanation of how that weapon works.

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Here is the Endo-Sym armor taking the blast, it is worth to note that Tony did not took the explosion point blank as the Shi´as did, however, he was still inside the explosion zone and being able to tank an explosion that wiped out an entire intergalactic empire is quite impressive to say the least.

There are much more armors that I´ll use, there is a lot more where that came from

Now that everyone has posted their openers and gave a basic rundown of what each character brings to the table, let´s get to the debate itself.

Counters

Heirtothekingdom - Countering his arguments

For starters, Tony's shielding against telepathy isn't automatic (for himself it may be, but not Thor), so he may resist the effects, however Thor isn't so lucky. He has to know telepathy is taking effect in order to activate his shielding, which will likely be too late because 1) there are so many telepaths here, Thor is going to be out of the battle pretty quickly, not to mention all telepaths are going to be fighting over who can manipulate his mind (I think Hayden wins that) and 2) Tony is going to be busy fighting of other characters to be worrying about telepathic assaults on his partner. It will most likely come to Thor having to resist it himself, which I think won't be likely.

Iron Man´s shielding against telepathic attacks is nigh impenetrable, at least for the telepaths who are here considering a planetary telepath, namely Red Skull, couldn´t bypass Tony´s defenses. Anyway, your argument here relies on Thor being affected by it, and although he could be affected, even more so considering the amount of telepaths here, it is actually quite unlikely for the very same reason, there are too many telepaths that they´ll be too busy fighting and blocking each other, they won´t try to control Thor, who by the way, has a good resistance towards TP.

Also, it took Tony some time to put up those frequencies to block telepathy, so it's not a set and done solution. Seeing how there are different telepaths operating at different frequencies, I think it's going to be extremely difficult if not impossible to scramble all of them. My team consists of villains who have no qualms on killing, in-fact they seem to like it (especially Brutaal), so they will take any advantage they can get to take down your team.

You tried this very same argument on our last debate, however you are approaching this subject the wrong way, you are somehow implying it took Tony very long to find the right frequency in order to shield his teammates from TP, however, that´s not remotley tru, Stark did that quite fast, he found the right frequency in the span of two panels as it was seen in "Axis #1"

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I won´t address the instances you brought up on Thor getting mind controlled since they are irrelevant to the scenario presented here because even if Psycho Pirate had the ability to manipulate Thor, he won´t be able to do so due to Tony shielding him, I see it playing out very similarly the way it did in "Thor/Iron Man: God Complex" when an angry Thor was tricked into thinking Tony had betrayed him and they had a brief fight.

Hayden will succeed at the beginning in controlling Thor and making him fight Iron Man, however, as you can see in the scans above, Iron Man tanked the strikes from an angered Thor for two pages, more than enough time to find the right frequency and shield the god of thunder from the mind control considering it only took Stark two panels to shield his teammates while having an enraged Hulk trying to squeeze his head into a bloody pulp as seen in the scan from "Axis #1".

Thor and Iron Man - Why they beat your team

For this battle, I chose a perk that will greatly aid my team (especially Thor) to win this this fight, "morals off", as for Iron Man, just imagine that Tony has the design of his newest suit (Prime Model) which can shape into anything with the addition of having the stats and feats of all his armors combined since I´m using a composite version.

As most of you probably know, something that hinders Thor in most of his fights is that he holds back too much, well, that won´t be a problem here since he is, as the perk itself describes it, morals off, meaning he won´t be pulling any punches, which spells doom for most of the characters in here as they don´t have the durability to tank repeated planetary strikes. Take Brutaal for example, he´s slightly more powerful than New 52 Clark based on your posts, but you have yet to show any durability feat for him, so until you do, I´ll give you some homework, find an instance that supports Brutaal being able to keep conscious after attacks like the following.

(From right to left)

  • Scan 1: Replicates the power of a nuke
  • Scan 2: Destroying millions of tons of earth´s crust (his strike went as far as to the center of the earth) with a single strike
  • Scan 3: One shotting a Chicago-sized city
  • Scan 4-6: Thor punched Bodolf through the entire planet earth from within, this is more impressive than punching someone to another country seeing as Thor punched him so hard that the hundred of miles of the planet earth´s crust couldn´t slow down the inertia exerted from Thor´s punch and Bodolf just shattered everything till he came on the other side of the globe.

In the meantime, Iron Man will handle Psycho Pirate since he´s immune to his powers, and yet again, you did not provide durability feats for the voters to gauge what level is he (Hayden) at when it comes to receiving attacks, so I´ll just leave you a scan of the Hulkbuster punching the Hulk through several blocks with a single strike in "World War Hulk #1", you´ll need to prove Hayden can survive something like that.

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Now, to show why both Iron Man and Thor can tank Brutaal´s attacks with only minor damage, the best feat you presented for Brutaal´s striking force was him destroying nanites which New 52 Clark failed to destroy, sadly for you, that´s not enough to knock out my characters.

As I already showed in my opener Thor was unharmed by an attack that wiped out Washington D.C and was more worried about all the civilian casualties around him in "Avengers (1998) #49".

As for Iron Man, like I showed in the "composite" section, he simply shrugged off a planetary amped Magneto who was siphoning energy to amp his punches in the mini-series "AVX"

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Comic_Book_Fan - Countering his arguments

Not much to counter since you just gave a rundown on your characters´ abilities, however, something caught my attention that needs to be addressed.

Juggernaut almost killed Thor by snatching up him in a bearhug that Thor couldn't break free from. Thor felt like he was going to blackout from being crushed, however his life was saved by the intervention of Bedlam‘s psionic attack that pulled Thor away from Juggernaut (The Mighty Thor #17, 1999).

This was not a regular Juggernaut, this was an amped version named "8th Day Juggernaut" even Thor himself stated twice that Cain Marko was stronger that he had been before, to the point of even saying "his might has swelled a hundred-fold", it´s strange that you didn´t know this considering you even gave the number of the issue.

Thor and Iron Man - Why they beat your team

Well, for starters, it is to my understanding that although Injustice Superman is more ruthless, he is far less powerful than his New 52 counterpart, as it is with every debate involving Superman, speed will be brought up, however, Injustice Superman is much slower than New 52 Clark, and both Iron Man and Thor have the speed required to keep up with him.

For instance, in "Thor Vol.2 #9" Replicus fired a blast at Thor, and the latter blocked it by spinning mjolnir to create a shield, he not only placed mjolnir in front of the blast, he made it spin so the wind would create a shield, that´s even faster than just blocking the blast.

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He has also reacted to and blocked a lightning during "Thor Vol. 2 #35".

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Tony has shown to be much faster than electricity in his fight against Mallen (an extremis powered character) and has also fought in the span of microseconds against Crimson Dynamo in "Iron Man Vol. 4 #6-7" respectively.

There it goes for the speed argument, I have plenty more where those came from.

Chimeroid - Countering his arguments

You merely introduced your characters so far, so there is not much to counter.

With this many powerhouses duking it out Drac and Apocalypse will be more than happy to sit the beginning out and pick off the remaining enemies. Dracula has a keen strategical mind and was already shown as willing to use strategy and sit back while the enemy becomes weaker and he finds the right time to strike. Me having a perfect teamwork perk means Apoc would oblige to that feeling.

The problem is, I don´t think they´ll go unnoticed with so many combatants on this scenario, someone is bound to attack your team even if they try to sit back, so this is a rather inconvenient tactic.

Sentinels: I don't think they are any sort of issue as Thor_Parker has already volunteered his Thor to put them out of commission

I did not volunteer Thor to take out the sentinels, I merely showcased they do not pose a threat for Thor who can easily dispatch them should they decide to attack him.

Iron Man has Tech that allows him to withstand TP but this tourney has no prep time so Thor won't be protected by that technology when the battle starts.

There is a problem with your statement, Iron Man can shield Thor rather immediately, I´m just going to copy what I said earlier.

"I see it playing out very similarly the way it did in "Thor/Iron Man: God Complex" when an angry Thor was tricked into thinking Tony had betrayed him and they had a brief fight.

Hayden will succeed at the beginning in controlling Thor and making him fight Iron Man, however, as you can see in the following scan.......

No Caption Provided

..........Iron Man tanked the strikes from an angered Thor for two pages, more than enough time to find the right frequency and shield the god of thunder from the mind control considering it only took Stark two panels to shield his teammates while having an enraged Hulk trying to squeeze his head into a bloody pulp as seen in the scan from "Axis #1".

Thor and Iron Man - Why they beat your team

For starters, Iron Man has already encased Apocalypse in a force field during "Avengers Vol. 4 #1-6", granted this was an alternate reality Apocalypse who came to 616 earth, just thought this was a showing worth mentioning to showcase a possible scenario.

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Another problem for you is that both Iron Man and Thor are far superior to either Apocalypse or Dracula in the physical department, I can give you a couple of examples that you won´t be able to surpass with En Sabah Nur or Vlad Tepesh.

  • Closes a chasm of millions of tons of earth
  • Arm wrestles Hercules and threatened the planet to shift out of orbit due to the force exerted
  • Hulked out Endo Sym armor rips to shreds the Hulkbuster that held its own against World War Hulk
  • Endo Sym breaks out of a cell that contained an alternate reality Terrax

Jirayia_sageofoil - Countering his arguments

You just posted one feat of your character and three of the other, so not much to do here besides.........

His scream causes a shockwave that affect an island 1000km in diameter

Cool, not quite as impressive as when Thor fought Fafnir and his attack tore through thousands of miles and tons of earth crust till it reached the center of the planet.

No Caption Provided

it also has the ability to reflect any attack back at the person with the same or multiplied damage. He can also devour them whole and can eat things and spit them back out.

I´m interested in this, absorbing attacks is an ability Thor possess as well, although he rarely uses it, he has shown quite a good deal of resistance against energy absorber redirecting or using attacks against him, I´ll wait for you to post some showings of Sani redirecting an attack so I can showcase Thor´s resistance towards them.

Thor and Iron Man - Why they beat your team

Not much to do here as I´m very unfamiliar with your characters and you did not let much on what your characters can really do with their powersets, however, you´ll need to show them at the very least with continental striking force and durability, at the very least, so I´ll wait patiently for those.

Beatboks1 - Countering his arguments

So start of the battle Ultra summons his back up bodies. He uses his mental control over his time traveling teleporting base to bring them to him. One of those bodies will grab a little something he pushes them to get before leaving. The device is a time traveler so it will be there instantaneous (not time manip as I haven't changed anything, just used it to make sure it's fast).

There's easily a dozen in the scan and I see no way he could fit any more than that in his teleporting time travel device so lets say that's how many he brings. That's one for every combatant on the field (my own team included to a bodyguard each). More than enough to ensure my team remain unchallenged for a while.

That´s a nice argument, but so far, not a single one of the viners involved in this CaV has brought up how they plan to deal with 20 Sentinels and 30 robots from Image´s "Invincible" trying to kill everyone in this battle, so in the most realistic scenario, Ultra Humanite will most likely use his ape bodies to cover him and attack the Sentinels/Robots, he won´t have bodies to spare nor use as bodyguards as you´re claiming.

With each of these bodies assaulting my adversaries they will be occupied (especially fighting 4 other teams each) an unable to attack my main team.

The ape bodies are basically a non factor as they will most likely just be covering Ultra from the sentinels/robots. However, you´re not the only one with back up, Iron Man can call all his different armors (on top of Tony himself having a composite armor) which he has already done so.

No Caption Provided

I count 20 armors in that image alone, more than the amount of ape bodies you can bring for this battle.

Tony can use 10 of these armors to go against the sentinels/robots, and use the remaining 10 as attack dogs or bodyguards, that would mean there are already enough characters taking care of the sentinels, and the only one with attack dogs will be me thanks to the large amount of armors Tony can bring to the fight.

Just in case Thor_parker82 or someone says that they have some protection from TP that wont matter if they are afraid.

Ultr'a power isn't strictly speaking TP. he maps the neural pathways and controls them. He can accomplish mental dominance over many people (and over great distance or even from other dimensions) but it's not done in the same way as TP so all your protections are for nothing as they aren't geared to what I bring.

You are very wrong regarding this subject, doesn´t matter how Ultra controls minds, the human brain controls every bit of emotion and/or movement our body makes, and it´s Tony´s brain what is shielded, Ultra would first need to enter his brain to control his mind, telepaths are able to manipulate emotions/control minds as well, emotions/movements are controlled by our brain, so you need to be able to manipulate a brain in order to manipulate emotions or control someone, it is not a matter if you agree or not, it is a fact, it is science, emotions/movements are controlled by the brain, if you want to control someone, you need to enter the brain and a planetary telepath could not enter Tony´s brain, so Ultra won´t.

Here is an explanation of how the brain controls our emotions if you are interested.

"Your brain is a complex network that processes vast quantities of information every second. Part of the brain's information-processing network includes neurons, or cells that transmit signals throughout the brain. Neurons send signals through neurotransmitters, which are chemicals some release and others receive. These chemicals essentially let the parts of the brain communicate with each other.

The three most commonly studied neurotransmitters are dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. Dopamine is related to experiences of pleasure and the reward-learning process. In other words, when you do something good, you're rewarded with dopamine and gain a pleasurable, happy feeling. This teaches your brain to want to do it again and again. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter associated with memory and learning. Researchers believe it plays a part in the regeneration of brain cells, which has been linked to easing depression. An imbalance in serotonin levels results in an increase in anger, anxiety, depression and panic. Norepinephrine helps moderate your mood by controlling stress and anxiety.

Abnormalities in how the brain receives and processes these chemicals can have a big effect on your emotions. For example, when you do something rewarding or pleasurable, the part of your brain that processes that information interacts with the chemical dopamine. If your brain can't receive dopamine normally, the result is that you feel less happy -- or even sad -- after what should have been a happy experience. Studies of people with major depressive disorder (MDD) have shown that they have fewer serotonin receptors in their brains."

Here is the source for the information above:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/5-ways-your-brain-influences-your-emotions2.htm

With that out of the way, I think it has become clear that NO ONE will be able to mentally control my team.

Ultra pretty much solos, but if someone brings up something I missed he has back up not yet used

Ultra is very far from soloing, as I already explained, all his backup bodies will be busy fighting the 20 sentinels and 30 robots with the aid of some armors from Tony helping with those as well, however, because of the sheer amount of armors Tony can bring to this battle, he can spare some armor to use as both body guards and attack dogs.

I still have Hellstrom in the hole to pull out and ace anything I may have missed. After all he wouldn't have been standing idle all this time. What he would have done at the outset is erect a force field for protection of my team.

A force field that can easily be broken by either Thor or Iron Man, on the god of thunder´s case, Magneto mentioned his forcefield wouldn´t last long against Thor´s strikes, and in another instance he alsoo destroyed and Kang´s force fields.

On Iron Man´s side, he has broken Graviton´s shield, by using a blast that emanated a temperature hotter than that of the surface of the sun, not to mention he has broken through Magneto´s shields, one with the bleeding edge, and with the endo sym armor it only took one blast to floor Magneto even though the latter was using his shields in "Avengers: The Children´s Crusade #1-9".

No Caption Provided

Hellstrom´s shields won´t be a problem.

Thor and Iron Man - Why they beat your team

Same as with @heirtothekingdom, you did not provide a single durability feat for either Daimon or Ultra to suffice they could tank repeated strikes from the god of thunder, who by the way, is morals off, which is quite scary for anyone opposing him, as he will not hesitate to unleash destructive force. Despite this being the start of the actual debate, neither you or heirtothekingdom provided a defense tactic, so I´ll leave you the same homework, find me something that suggests your characters could stay conscious after attacks like these.

(From right to left)

  • Scan 1: Replicates the power of a nuke
  • Scan 2: Destroying millions of tons of earth´s crust (his strike went as far as to the center of the earth) with a single strike
  • Scan 3: One shotting a Chicago-sized city
  • Scan 4-6: Thor punched Bodolf through the entire planet earth from within, this is more impressive than punching someone to another country seeing as Thor punched him so hard that the hundred of miles of the planet earth´s crust couldn´t slow down the inertia exerted from Thor´s punch and Bodolf just shattered everything till he came on the other side of the globe.

Now let´s get to the part on why your team won´t be able to put down mine, for starters, Daimon´s main method of attack is heat based, something which Thor is quite resistant, take for example a crossover called "Everything Burns" where Thor faced Surtur, the latter sent his demons after Thor and took him to a lake completely made of Surtur´s flames.

As you can see in the above scans which happened in the crossover, specifically in "The Mighty Thor (2011) #20", several of these pirana-like demons surrounded Odinson and he just kept shaking them off, it is worth mentioning that this battle between the demons and Thor took two entire issues which makes the showing even more impressive, Thor withstood being constantly attacked and surrounded by these demons while at the same time being in flames hotter than the sun for an entire two issues. Thor had given up because he saw no way of geting out of the all consuming flames (as named throughout the arc) and just stopped fighting, even then, the demons were still unable to do significant damage and after Hela BFR´ed Thor out of the flames, he was still completely fine and basically unharmed.

The scans above this sentence are from "Journey into Mystery #644" which is the next issue where the story continues from "The Mighty Thor (2011) #20".

Daimon´s attacks won´t prove more than a nuisance for Thor.

As for Ultra Humanite, you did not show a single striking feat, you rather just posted physical strength feats which for battle purposes is not nearly as useful, in the unlikely case Ultra physically grabs and/or tries to subdue Thor, Humanite will find himself getting struck by lightning, Thor used this very same tactic against Hercules.

In case you try to argue on favor of Ultra being unnaffected by Thor´s lightning, I suggest you to find me a really good feat, cause the god of thunder packs an insanely powerful lightning, for instance, it already greatly damaged Hercules. I´ll bring forth another proof of the power behind such an attack. A young Thor was able to one shot a weaker version of Gorr (still plenty powerful) with a single lightning strike.

No Caption Provided

This was indeed a weaker version of Gorr than the one that defeated King Thor, however, this Gorr was still uber powerful, he utterly stomped and mopped the floor with a young Thor, and just before Gorr was about to kill him, Odinson summoned a lightning and knocked out Gorr. Anyway, this is just a small glimpse of his lightning, I´m saving the best ones for when you reply with actual durbility feats for Ultra.

As for Iron Man (composite armor) he is also an opponent that will give either of your team a lot of trouble, if not beat them. A good example of how Iron Man can take down Daimon took place in "Original Sin #3.1-3.4", in there, Tony was using a heavy duty armor with Hulkbuster features, throughout the battle, Tony was able to stun, bother and stagger and angry Hulk by releasing blasts and ultrasonics with enough force to power an entire continent.

This spells end for Daimon who doesn´t have the durability required to endure such an attack.

Not only Tony has what it takes to take out Hellstrom in a battle, he also can power through every attack thrown at him, in the "composite" section in the beggining of my post you´ll find durability feats for Iron Man, those alone are enough to solidify Daimon being unable to put down Tony who tanked repeated strikes from a planetary amped Magneto, but in the highly unlikely case Daimon somehow manages to inflict damage to the armor, Tony can insta-repair as it was shown in the pretty recent "Civil War II #5".

In both of those scans, Tony instantly repaired the damaged parts of his armor, not that it would even come to that, considering Tony has a composite armor in this battle, which in turn, gives him the durability of the Hulkbuster, Endo-Sym and much more.

End of my post, next turn.

For all these reasons and more, my team will win this battle.

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#82  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom
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#83  Edited By Chimeroid

Round 1

Apocalypse:

One ability i won't list feats for is his ability of shapechanging. He has complete control over the molecules of his body and can assume any for needed. You will see that through other feats instead of seeing it spammed.

Physical Stats

Strength:

Apoc is incredibly strong, both in striking power and raw strength, let's show you.

1. Outmuscles the Hulk 2. Thor knows he couldn't survive 2 headbutts from Apoc 3. One pimp slap almost ripped Thor's head off

Speed:

. Even though he is not a speedster, he has speed feats to manage this fight.

1. Easily catches a bullet 2. Dodges Cyclops eye blast and Iceman's attack at the same time 3. Catches a Thor thrown axe 4. The famous one - Proving QS is not fast enough to blitz him

Durability:

In this regard he is a genuine monster. It takes a lot to put him down, In fact, so much i doubt any single team can take him down quickly enough. (Some of these have context behind them, but i am simply short on time to list everything.)

1. Tanks Stryfe's attack 2. 3. Tanks full power of Cable, comments it is not enough 4. Tanks Cyclop's attack to the face 5. Tanks High Evolutionary

Various Abilities

Energy Projection:

1. One shots Iceman 2. One shots Cyclops and Archangel 3. Breaks Sue's forcefields 4. Drops young Thor like a bag of potatoes

Technopathy:

This should be an interesting one, especially against someone like Nova, who uses technology to access his powers. Apoc has the ability to mentally control technology.

1. Techno Organic Controls TO machines as they adapt to Cyclops' powers 2. Seizes control of the celestial Ship (aka Prosh or Professor). (who has feats of resisting Phalanx in Phalanx Covenant storyline)

Telepathy:

Now, Apocalypse won't be using this directly on your team, but it is important to showcase how strong he is when it comes to both using it, and resisting it. You will soon see why this is very important.

First scan is the one i want to stress. He didn't know what her abilities were, and yet he punked Jean Grey with his telepathy. Not to mention he is utterly resistant to it.

Note: A lot of feats feature Young Thor. While he is not as impressive as he usually is he still has his own feats of fighting Gorr and proving he is indeed a beast and not a far cry from the Thor being used in this fight.

Dracula

I will keep to a classical type of feat presentation here, since i expect most people still don't know what Dracula can do.

Physical Stats

Strength:

He is actually a decent high tier in this regard.

1. Breaking through Crimson Brands of Cyttorak 2. 3. Catches a punch from Collossus and throws him away with one hand 4. Pimp slaps Surfer enough to stagger him.

Durability:

Dracula is not quite the juggernaut the Apocalypse is, but he has some really good showings against Marvel's top tiers.

1. Walks through Dr Strange blasting him 2. Powers through lightning 3. Physically engages Thor, leaves unharmed 4. Survives being blasted by Thor's lightning while being distracted.

There are more feats, but this will suffice for now.

Speed:

Though he is not a speedster he is definitely fast enough to react to anything your team might send his way.

1. Bat form dodges surfers blast 2. Dodges a laser attack. 3. Gets continuously fired upon from a laser. DOdges some of the blows. He has light speed reactions but still got tagged a couple of times 4. Some more dodging of Surfers attacks.

Various Abilities

Weather control:

I wont put a lot of scans here. There is no need. He has one that solidifies his strength in controlling the weather, and that is the fact he matched Thor. Pretty cool, no?

No Caption Provided

In fact, he is actually capable of instant city busting with his weather manipulation

And that was mostly wind.
And that was mostly wind.

Mist form:

This is his preferred tactic when it comes to dodging dangerous attacks. He is incredibly fast with it and he has proven to be impervious to attacks while in it.

I have already shown him using mist form to let Surfers' attacks pass through him.

Mind Control

Now this is where it's at. Dracula has really impressive showings. It's time to showcase what he can actually do

Mind controls Dr Strange and Storm respectively

But this is not all. During Apocalypse vs Dracula story line we find out that blood from En Sabah Nur further increases his "telepathic" powers. In fact, now it's time to remember how telepathically strong Apoc really is. (you remember him punking Jean Grey i hope). Well, with some of Apoc's blood here (and perfect teamwork means that Apoc would share) Dracula can do this:

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Now, when Dracula bites someone (and he bit Apoc in this scan) he gets control over them. That is why i put the word Telepathy in quotes. While his typical mind control (which he used on Strange) is impressive, his bite (especially when amped by Apoc) is irresistible. Anyone bitten will fight on my side. If he effortlessly controlled En Sabah Nur he will be able to do the same to almost anyone in this fight.

First Step

Dracula will bite Apocalypse getting a massive power upgrade. From what we have seen Apocalypse Amps are so strong, when applied to Hulk he was able to stomp out the Juggernaut, and completely stop his momentum. Something that should be impossible.

So, Dracula will have his massive Power Amp.

Apocalypse will also use his Ship's technology to teleport a lot of Drac's Charniputra on to the field. Fodder as they are, they managed to buy some time against Nul Hulk. We will also have air reinforcements of monsters simply so we can stay behind and stay safe.

Specific Debater Replies

CBF

In the psionic battle that would start on the field Injustice Superman would basically become just one of the toys for which the telepaths battle over. Juggernaut is a whole other matter as he will remain a factor in this fight. Unfortunately for you, he is not the brightest one. Main issue for you being his mentality. He will not be tactical about this and will just rush into combat with whoever.

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And while he is more than dangerous enough for this tourney, and will wreck havoc he can't do a thing to my team members as long as they decide to avoid combating him.

Maybe he could be the last one standing from you aggressive debaters team after all is said and done but if that happens my team will be there to take him out.

Jiraiya

First of all i would like to address your closing argument

My team also has full knowledge but since neither team has prep and my team is willing to kill immiedately unlike the heroes they usually fight

While usually it is a solid argument, in this particular debate most of us are villains and all of our characters (except for Thor and Tony) have no qualms about instantly killing their opponents.

On the other hand, until we see some TP resistance feats for your team, they remain very susceptible to attacks from Ultra Humanite, Daimon Hellstrom, Dracula and Psycho Pirate.

While their speed is incredibly impressive they are matched by there being 2 Supermen on the field fighting as well.

HTTK

I'm aware Apocalypse has overcome some impressive telepathic assaults, however it doesn't matter because Dracula doesn't stand a chance against Hayden and will be bent mentally to his will. Apocalypse can be taken down by the legion of characters Hayden will have once he's taken over multiple characters minds here.

There is only one issue. Apocalypse didn't only overcome those TP assaults. He sent them back to his attackers.

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Jean Grey attacked him with everything she had, while he was unprepared and he easily overcame her TP and sent it back to her leaving her helpless. Same could happen to Hayden since he will, once again, be telepathically fighting more than just one telepath. I believe this one is more impressive than the time he did that to both Jean and Prof X because here she had a free shot at him when he didn't know of her powers.

As far as your argument that Earth 2 Superman is >> To Regular New 52 Supes, the counter is simple - At that point it was still Jeans and T Shirt Superman who had trouble stopping trains and flying, not the fully grown one who benched the Earth.

One more thing. Hayden's powers can always be resisted if someone is strong enough Mentally.

And in the battle of muscles he is susceptible to being killed

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TP82

While I like the strategy you made for the tourney, i believe you are the one who takes this tourney turning into a 6 way battle the worst.

The strategy and feats of Tony helping Thor out of TP are great and incredibly useful since you have proven Tony can stall the fight with Thor long enough to accomplish it.

But here's the kicker.

The reason that will fail here is because Tony (as everyone else on the field) has to work to survive 2 evil Supermen on the field. Massively powerful Toriko team, a Juggernaut and whatever everyone is concocting as their summons. He will be too overwhelmed to help Thor like he did in your scans.

Too bad since i totally see you taking this tourney if it was 1v1 CaV's. And that is why your strategy fails.

I mean your entire post is a series of 1v1 debates instead of focusing on the bigger picture

BB1

While your team is well formed you are not taking a lot of consideration in the option of being instantly attacked by some of the characters. Even with the feats you offered being attacked by someone like Brutaal or Injustice Supes could really slow your strategy down, if not stop it.

I will End My post here, see you all in the next round.

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who is next?

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Jiraiya_sageofoil

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I'll be posting today getting some scans together

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Overview

First round I wasn't as active simply opting to see wat my opponents can do. Now I'll reveal wat my team can do.

Jirou

As of yet I haven't seen any feats that make me think that jirou isn't the physical most powerful here.

Striking:

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Here in this sequence he launches an attack from his punch that tears through the planet and has enough power to destroy the human world which is equal to the size of our earth. Something very few people here would be able to withstand.

Even more impressive is what he does here:

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He manages to nearly stop the rotation of the planet while also applying knocking to dozens of powerful fighters.

Another interesting but not as powerful fear:

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He casually punches a creature out into deep space.

What makes these feats even more impressive is that it's done on a planet of this size :

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For example of that size magnitude Jupiter is only about 318 times earth size with diameter and volume.

Now for his deadly technique "Knocking" it essentially is pressure points but on a much higher level. His skill of knocking is high enough as shown earlier to stop a giant planet but can also do these things.

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Applying million knocking to acacia/neo

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Using knocking by simply breathing towards the person(then punches her out to space)

One of its most useful uses is damage knocking which allows him to stop damage in its tracks:

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Take note of the amount of damage done to the landscape. He can apply it to even higher levels as well

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Once again keep in mind the sheer magnitude of the planet when viewing these and amount of power and damage shown. So for those few characters who MIGHT be able to hurt jirou he can still negate the damage through knocking. He still also has 2 more knocking techniques that you'll find quite troublesome in the next round.

Sani

While not on the same level as jirou sani has his own skills and abilities to make him a massive threat on the battlefield.

A very unique skill sani attacks using his hair which also acts as feelers. Being only .1 micron in size yet being to hold 300 tons each( last number given but is definitely more now)

Sani uses his hair to reflect attacks and depending on how many hairs he uses on how much more powerful it's amplified and thrown back. Here we can see him reflecting hundreds of millions of ton of water pressure. Odd won't let me post the scans so ill give the link to it also take note that he reflects an attack and destroys a mountain weighing 1 trillion tons.

http://m.imgur.com/a/Lm3ak

Aside from this He grows to become even more powerful to have 1 millions hairs/feelers far more than the amount he had to destroy the mountain and is capable of reflecting attacks at 3000 times their original power(as u see it includes physical ones as well) Also His move hair marionette which takes control of the opp nerves.

http://m.imgur.com/a/E9eDJ

He later manages to hold off 2.5 quadrillion tons by himself tho with great strain.

No Caption Provided

Early someone inquired about his energy absorption as of yet he's only used it once in a weaker state.

http://m.imgur.com/a/pv3Yl

Once again sorry for the links but vine isn't accepting my scans .

Now for countering

Counters

HeirToTheKingdom

In terms of fighting capabilities, your team is by far the most fearsome here. I'm a reader of Toriko, so I know just how powerful they are, however, I also know they haven't really shown telepathic resistance, so it's probable they can mentally taken down. I know i'm going to hear the "intimidation" is related to telepathy argument, which isn't all too bad, however you're going to have to prove it's enough to prevent Hayden from doing what he does best. Judging by the appearance of my team, Psycho Pirate won't be their first target (Brutaal possibly but he can hold his own), so this will allow Hayden to simply put Sani and Jirou to sleep once he see's how devastating their powers are in battle.

While what you say is partially true intimidation isn't the only way to deal with TP . The speed disparity and AOE attacks would make it unlikely for hayden to attack there is still also the other teams and sentinels to deal with.

Thorparker

You just posted one feat of your character and three of the other, so not much to do here besides.........

His scream causes a shockwave that affect an island 1000km in diameter

Cool, not quite as impressive as when Thor fought Fafnir and his attack tore through thousands of miles and tons of earth crust till it reached the center of the planet.

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it also has the ability to reflect any attack back at the person with the same or multiplied damage. He can also devour them whole and can eat things and spit them back out.

I´m interested in this, absorbing attacks is an ability Thor possess as well, although he rarely uses it, he has shown quite a good deal of resistance against energy absorber redirecting or using attacks against him, I´ll wait for you to post some showings of Sani redirecting an attack so I can showcase Thor´s resistance towards them.

I've posted a few more now lol. The fanfir feat is cool yet not as impressive as sani reflecting an attack to destroy a 1 trillion ton mountain or Jirou stopping a planet 2x the size of Jupiter with a punch. Sani is capable of eating thor and iron man energy attacks and reflecting physical ones.

Chimeroid

First of all i would like to address your closing argument

My team also has full knowledge but since neither team has prep and my team is willing to kill immiedately unlike the heroes they usually fight

While usually it is a solid argument, in this particular debate most of us are villains and all of our characters (except for Thor and Tony) have no qualms about instantly killing their opponents.

On the other hand, until we see some TP resistance feats for your team, they remain very susceptible to attacks from Ultra Humanite, Daimon Hellstrom, Dracula and Psycho Pirate.

While their speed is incredibly impressive they are matched by there being 2 Supermen on the field fighting as well.

Once again the TP thing seems unlikely in battlefield like this also while supermen may match in speed they dont match strength or powers.

One last thing I'd like to address is the range of sani kitchen diner which is 800 meters so anyone within that range can be caught by hair lock or hair marionette.

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New_World_Order

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#90  Edited By New_World_Order

Round 2: Counters

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BeatBoks1 -

There's easily a dozen in the scan and I see no way he could fit any more than that in his teleporting time travel device so lets say that's how many he brings. That's one for every combatant on the field (my own team included to a bodyguard each). More than enough to ensure my team remain unchallenged for a while.

Are they all as powerful as the original Ultra Humanite? Just wondering because that can be a pretty big game changer if they are. Secondly, what's stopping Hayden from taking them to his side for the battle given he could telepathically battle Ultra for them? He has very impressive telepathic abilities, which is even gone over further in the New 52 which I have access to (composite Hayden).

Here is what Hayden is capable of.

Orion has given Superman safeguards with a Mother Box to protect him from telepathic assaults. Just in-case you don't know, a Mother Box is technology of the New Gods and their tech outdoes anything DC earth has by far. A Mother Box is also connected to the source which is where all Gods got there powers from.

Superman #20

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Superman #22 - Hive Queen overcomes Clarks safeguards from the Mother Box.

Just in-case you believe they forgot about the safeguards, it's obviously not the case as it was put in Superman's mind two issues ago as well as stated again in the very same issue I cited above of where Hive Queen easily enters his mind. In fact, here is Superman even remembering the mental safeguards placed upon his mind.

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So basically a Mother Box, an item which is more advanced than anything DC earth has was able to put Safeguards in Superman's head so telepathic attacks would be futile. However, Psycho Pirate was able to overcome both Hive Queen and Hector Hammond without much difficulty despite Hive Queen being capable of overcoming the Mother Box safeguards on her own. That is crazy impressive telepathic abilities because well not only did it take them two, but it also took Lois Lane empowered with telepathic powers (from Braniac) and Superman himself to take him down. They were loosing and he only lost due to the fact that Clark pulled off his mask which gave him his powers.

Superman #24

Also, Cyborg's amour was bathed in the energies of Mother Box. Due to this his suit is so advanced they he can hack into any computer around the world, open hundreds of boom tubes around the world which can send people to the moon or Apokolips, or even give him extreme knowledge. Remember, Cyborg was an athlete, he was smart, but not nearly as smart as the Mother Box energies mad him which feeds him knowledge throughout the earth and the outsides of it. Just so you don't start thinking i'm giving you words, i'll show some feats the Mother Boxes energies allowed Cyborg to accomplish.

Cyborg #11- Vic can hack any security camera he wants to around the world.

Justice League #50 - Vic taps into the ring of Jessica Cruz in order to override Volthoom's control. Green Lantern rings are advanced technology and Vic did this easily. He even states that he can read the technology.

This last feat will show you the sheer power of a Mother Box and how Psycho Pirate overcoming it's safeguards are nothing short of impressive.

Cyborg #10 - Cyborg states he could create sonic frequencies which can scramble Superman's brain and kill him in less than 5 seconds.

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Basically what i'm trying to get at is, Hayden has easily overpowered a group of telepaths (Hector Hammond, Hive Queen, and Lois Lane) who are all incredibly powerful. Hive Queen on her own was able to easily break through telepathic safeguards put by a Mother Box. Hector and Lois were more or less on his level of power too. For Hayden to overpower them all shows he's a match for Ultra in a telepathic battle and can very well take his other bodies to manipulate.

With each of these bodies assaulting my adversaries they will be occupied (especially fighting 4 other teams each) an unable to attack my main team.

Not really, as Brutaal is much faster than any one of them. Seeing as how I have telepathically taking control of Injustice Superman and potentially Sani and Jirou, I have quite a good amount of not only powerful characters, but fast.

Brutaal alone is insanely fast being able to keep up with New 52 Jay Garrick without trouble. Jay was pushing to his limits at this time, in-which Brutaal eventually caught him with his Omega Vision.

Earth 2 #18

How fast is Jay? Well when he first got his powers he was capable of running from the U.S to Poland in the time it takes him to finish a few sentences. The distance between the U.S and Poland is 8,301 kilometers.

Earth 2 #2

It's also in-character for Brutaal to blitz. He doesn't on pretty much everyone he encounters as I've said. Here is two instances where he does it back to back on two separate characters, Alan Scott and then Atom Smasher.

Earth 2 #15

I don't think the Ultra's can tag him even though they may be powerful enough to harm him.

Next Ultra will TK remove the medusa mask from Psychopirate and take it for himself. The little thing he will have had one of his bodies bring will be something he worked up for Psychopirate to amp his ability.

Hayden has TK too, so I don't think he's simply going to allow Ultra to take the mask of him.

Not only is the power of the pre52 Psychopirate mine but the only weakness to his power (of not being in sight range means it wont affect you) is now gone. Literally every single player on the field will now be emotionally controlled by me. HTTK stated this was Composite Psychopirate and I'm taking hi at his work, because pre 52 SP wasn't a TPer but his ability was more magic based. It worked of the mask giving him emotional powers so that any emotional face made became the emotion that overwhelmed whoever saw it. NOW everyone will see it and literally can't avoid it courtesy of the Psychoprism. Within seconds all the other teams are cowering at my feet in utter terror. Their defenses smashed it will be an easy matter for Ultra to now mind rape them and have them destroy each other.

Quite a strategy you have there, however taking Hayden's mask is easier said then done. He's not going to stand there and allow Ultra to take his mask, seeing as how he has TK himself. In fact, upon seeing the attempt, he could very well engage him in a telepathic battle and send the characters he's already manipulated against Ultra like Injustice Superman. Given the difference in speed, what's stopping Hayden from sending Brutaal or Injustice Superman to obtain the prism so he can use it once again? I mean, he's used it before so he knows how to use it. All you would essentially be doing is giving my character something to solidify his victory here.

Thor_Parker98 -

Iron Man´s shielding against telepathic attacks is nigh impenetrable, at least for the telepaths who are here considering a planetary telepath, namely Red Skull, couldn´t bypass Tony´s defenses. Anyway, your argument here relies on Thor being affected by it, and although he could be affected, even more so considering the amount of telepaths here, it is actually quite unlikely for the very same reason, there are too many telepaths that they´ll be too busy fighting and blocking each other, they won´t try to control Thor, who by the way, has a good resistance towards TP.

I can agree Tony's shielding against telepathic attacks is very good, however what i'm trying to say is you don't have basic knowledge in this battle, so how is he going to know? Tony is among the weakest characters in this battle, so he's going to be struggling greatly from the beginning trying to stay alive. You think he's going to have time to be thinking about Thor being telepathically assaulted to save him? I don't think so, which wouldn't even matter if he did because all anyone who has telepathic abilities in this battle would need to do is take out Tony. Given Hayden has telepathically taking over Injustice Superman and has Brutaal as an ally, do you think Tony is going to last? I am 100% sure he's not take either in a fight one on one even with the Hulk Buster given how powerful and fast they are. Thor is powerful, but he's not taking both, so regardless of how you look at it, Thor is coming to my team.

You tried this very same argument on our last debate, however you are approaching this subject the wrong way, you are somehow implying it took Tony very long to find the right frequency in order to shield his teammates from TP, however, that´s not remotley tru, Stark did that quite fast, he found the right frequency in the span of two panels as it was seen in "Axis #1"

This was after Tony had seen the Avengers fighting and didn't realize that it was telepathy until after. I'm also saying that their are quite a few telepaths here, so Tony may have to find the right frequency for all of them (if that's how it works), which I don't think is possible to do at the same time. Given the things I brought up above, it just solidifies that Thor is going to get mentally assaulted whether Tony wants for it to happen or not.

I won´t address the instances you brought up on Thor getting mind controlled since they are irrelevant to the scenario presented here because even if Psycho Pirate had the ability to manipulate Thor, he won´t be able to do so due to Tony shielding him, I see it playing out very similarly the way it did in "Thor/Iron Man: God Complex" when an angry Thor was tricked into thinking Tony had betrayed him and they had a brief fight.

I think we both know as Thor fans that if Thor was to truly bring forth his most powerful blows, Tony would be finished here. Luckily, the characters I have with me (Brutaal & Injustice Superman), don't hold back, so good luck on Tony surviving their blows. Even so, I think the telepathy is very well relevant as I've gone over it thoroughly above and have yet to see a counter other than "Tony's shielding can block it". That's not going to cut it because Tony will have his hands full himself against foes above his paygrade, he may have to find multiple frequencies give their are multiple telepaths here, Hayden can have his teammates and minions take out Tony so Thor can be manipulated or simply Thor gets manipulated before the shielding is even up.

For this battle, I chose a perk that will greatly aid my team (especially Thor) to win this this fight, "morals off", as for Iron Man, just imagine that Tony has the design of his newest suit (Prime Model) which can shape into anything with the addition of having the stats and feats of all his armors combined since I´m using a composite version.

That morals off Thor you have there can go from that to a morals on Thor in a split second once Hayden plays with his emotions. It's not a game changer in the least here. He's done things like make Power Girl feel happy and shy, imagine a shy Thor, he'll loose all of that bloodlust instantly.

As for Iron Man, that amour isn't offering anything that would allow him to challenge to Superman level characters.

As most of you probably know, something that hinders Thor in most of his fights is that he holds back too much, well, that won´t be a problem here since he is, as the perk itself describes it, morals off, meaning he won´t be pulling any punches, which spells doom for most of the characters in here as they don´t have the durability to tank repeated planetary strikes. Take Brutaal for example, he´s slightly more powerful than New 52 Clark based on your posts, but you have yet to show any durability feat for him, so until you do, I´ll give you some homework, find an instance that supports Brutaal being able to keep conscious after attacks like the following.

This is all proven to be not much of a factor when we take into account that Thor's emotions have been changed to more friendly ones. He won't be in the mood to fight after Hayden alters them.

As for Brutaal's durability, it's nothing short of insane like himself. When Brutaal killed Darkseid's uncle Stephenwolf with a karate chop, the resulting explosion given when a New God as powerful stephenwolf was larger than continents (Earth 2 #16)

The resulting blast destroyed everything around, yet Brutaal stood in it with no harm at all.

.

Just incase you are unaware, Steppenwolf is the uncle of Darkseid, and one the more powerful New Gods out there. Steppenwolf is no weakling, he was in charge of taking over Earth 2 and was doing it quite easily with no one to oppose him as the big 3 were dead (Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman). Here is what one of the soldiers have to say about him in Earth 2 #8.

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In the meantime, Iron Man will handle Psycho Pirate since he´s immune to his powers, and yet again, you did not provide durability feats for the voters to gauge what level is he (Hayden) at when it comes to receiving attacks, so I´ll just leave you a scan of the Hulkbuster punching the Hulk through several blocks with a single strike, you´ll need to prove Hayden can survive something like that

Hayden is not durable at all, he's pretty much a glass canon, but that doesn't take away from how powerful he is. Not that it matters much because Tony won't be here long enough to engage him. Even if he somehow is, Hayden can put up illusions throughout the battle to through him off.

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Now, to show why both Iron Man and Thor can tank Brutaal´s attacks with only minor damage, the best feat you presented for Brutaal´s striking force was him destroying nanites which New 52 Clark failed to destroy, sadly for you, that´s not enough to knock out my characters.

So one-shotting a powerful New God and destroying nanites that New 52 Superman couldn't destroy isn't enough to say Brutaal can't even take out Iron Man...interesting. How about Brutaal stomping Doctor Fate so hard that his helmet was cracked and the entire base around them was leveled. Keep in mind he's doing this casually.

I remember you saying the base wasn't that large, so here is a clearer picture which shows you otherwise. If you look closely in the background there is a whole small civilization in the upper corner and this base dwarfs that by far.

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Brutaal has accomplished those two feats without even trying much, and they will still incredibly impressive. Imagine if he was trying when he did.

As I already showed in my opener Thor was unharmed by an attack that wiped out Washington D.C and was more worried about all the civilian casualties around him.

It didn't wipe out Washington D.C, it wiped out all the people living there. Yes, the structures were damaged, but wiped out is a word you would use for something that's not there anymore.

As for Iron Man, like I showed in the "composite" section, he simply shrugged off a planetary amped Magneto who was siphoning energy to amp his punches.

Would this really be used given that it wasn't a new amour or anything, but more so Tony preparing for a battle against Magneto. Had he not had preparation for that fight, I don't think he would usually do this.

Comic_Book_Fan -

either way superboy resisted later and if he could effect superman why didn't he just directly effect superman who is a good deal more powerful than superboy.

Superboy didn't resist it like you may think he did. It actually took Superman talking down to him in order for him to snap out of it. Had that not been the case, I don't think he would've been so lucky. Why he didn't go for Superman was likely because of Kal's morals. He knows Kal would be at big disadvantage going up against a friend or someone he considers family. He wouldn't want to fight back.

also superman has stronger mental defenses

This may be true, but it doesn't matter because you are using Injustice Superman, not Prime Earth Superman. Even so, Prime Earth Superman has been telepathically assaulted by Hayden, and has had his psychic energy drained from him as well. Injustice Superman will be the easiest to mentally manipulate in this battle given Superman's don't do that great against telepathy.

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and psycho pirate's powers usually amplifies what ever the victim is already feeling do you really want to risk making a guy who already wants to rip your head off because he is blood lusted want to do it more.

That wouldn't matter at all. Hayden makes it so that whoever he manipulates doesn't go after him, so who he chooses to express his rage upon doesn't matter to him. In this case, Juggernaut and the opposing teams will be the victims here.

also that superman had morals and was trying save the day without hurting anyone and even after he was attacked tried to reason.

Not sure what you mean here, but morals doesn't matter. Hayden can make the kindest person the meanest if he wishes for it.

my superman will rip your spine out faster than you can think.

I have a Superman of my own, and he's more powerful than the one you have, not to mention faster. I really find it hard to believe he'll speed blitz Hayden when he's around. Especially since Hayden can make it so he doesn't come after us.

Chimeroid -

There is only one issue. Apocalypse didn't only overcome those TP assaults. He sent them back to his attackers.

Judging from the scan, this was no easy task. He states "Aghh! What--? My brain...pressure building...beginning to weaken! No...must...prove...I am...superior!" That to me sounds like someone who had to put their all in to something in order to save themselves, which might not even save him based off what Hayden's accomplished.

Jean Grey attacked him with everything she had, while he was unprepared and he easily overcame her TP and sent it back to her leaving her helpless. Same could happen to Hayden since he will, once again, be telepathically fighting more than just one telepath. I believe this one is more impressive than the time he did that to both Jean and Prof X because here she had a free shot at him when he didn't know of her powers.

Easily is a strong word to use there given he was struggling a lot in order to resist the telepathy. Hayden may not be able to get into his mind for long, however he still has telepathically manipulated characters like Injustice Superman and Thor within this battle. Them alongside Brutaal can trample Apocalypse without trouble together and there wouldn't be much he can do as he's stalled resisting Hayden's telepathic assault.

As far as your argument that Earth 2 Superman is >> To Regular New 52 Supes, the counter is simple - At that point it was still Jeans and T Shirt Superman who had trouble stopping trains and flying, not the fully grown one who benched the Earth.

Actually, it's a common thing that Earth 2 Superman is superior to Prime Earth. That's even how it was Post Crisis. In fact, I already showed Earth 2 Superman easily out-pacing Earth Prime Superman even though the latter had moved beforehand. Then there is the fact that Brutaal overpowered nanites that Earth Prime Superman alongside Batman were incapable of, so it's shown pretty clearly. There is more proof to show that Earth 2 Superman is superior than vice versa.

One more thing. Hayden's powers can always be resisted if someone is strong enough Mentally.

Actually, that's not necessarily true. For starters, Flashes can speed up their minds so that telepathy can't effect them much. Second of all, Superboy was being manipulated for quite a long while to the point he was beating on Superman. Once Black Lantern Superman struck him down and he seen his ally fall, that's when he snapped out of it. There is also the fact that Superman was speaking to him the entire time trying to get through to him. This is also a composite Psycho Pirate who has New 52 feats like easily taking out telepaths who can each alone drop Superman with their telepathy.

And in the battle of muscles he is susceptible to being killed

That's kind of a given, but seeing as how he can telepathically manipulate most characters in this battle, it's not likely to happen. He even has most of these characters in this battle working on his side once he manipulates them to fight each other.

Jiraiya_Sage_Of_Oil -

While what you say is partially true intimidation isn't the only way to deal with TP . The speed disparity and AOE attacks would make it unlikely for hayden to attack there is still also the other teams and sentinels to deal with.

I pretty much control most of the teams in this battle thanks to Hayden telepathically manipulating them to our side. Your team may be powerful, but how would they fare when you have characters like Brutaal, Thor, Injustice Superman, and so on all against them? I doubt your team will target Hayden as he doesn't look as threatening as the rest.

You may have a speed advantage on Hayden, but Brutaal is here with perfect teamwork, meaning he's not going to allow him to get killed. I can also bargain that Brutaal is faster than Jirou or Sani despite not being as powerful, so he can react fast enough, keeping them away from Hayden with Omega Vision. As for AOE, Hayden isn't limited to the ground, as he can use telekinesis to allow him movement through the air.

This is all going outside the fact that Hayden doesn't just telepathically manipulate your team as he does the rest here.

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#91  Edited By New_World_Order
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#92  Edited By beatboks1

Thor_parker82

That´s a nice argument, but so far, not a single one of the viners involved in this CaV has brought up how they plan to deal with 20 Sentinels and 30 robots from Image´s "Invincible" trying to kill everyone in this battle,

This was something brought up by a few competitors (in different ways). I think however that your all overlooking something. Thus far I've only used the weaker and less powerful member of my team in this battle. ALL that I've had Hellstrom do is put up a shield. Let's look at those shields shall wee??

Daimon's force fields have contained the Hood when possessed by Dormammu and Blackheart. The Blackheart one shows his Force fields were even stronger than those of Invisible woman (who couldn't). None has brought a player with power greater than these so if they can't penetrate this shield then no one here will.

The ape bodies are basically a non factor as they will most likely just be covering Ultra from the sentinels/robots.

Obviously they wont be since nothing I can see on this battlefield has greater destructive force than either a Hood posessed by Dormammu or Blackheart. PLUS I still have my most powerful team member sitting twiddling his thumbs waiting to go into action as required.

You are very wrong regarding this subject, doesn´t matter how Ultra controls minds, the human brain controls every bit of emotion and/or movement our body makes, and it´s Tony´s brain what is shielded, Ultra would first need to enter his brain to control his mind, telepaths are able to manipulate emotions/control minds as well,

No I'm not.

  1. if in fact our minds controlled our emotions than many of the fool hardy things that Tony has done due to pride and other "emotions" would not have occured. never mind the fact that everyone who is reading is well aware that it is actually very difficult to control the ones emotions.
  2. It actually states on panel that he doesn't control minds, he maps and controls their neural pathways. Essentially switching of a light switch on a wall that is some distance from the light (or brain) so he doesn't have to enter it at all.
  3. the actual defintion of emotions distinguishes them from reason

emotions

  1. a strong feeling deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others."she was attempting to control her emotions"
  2. instinctive or intuitive feeling as distinguished from reasoning or knowledge.

This pretty much proves that it's not "controlled" as it's a primal instinct not linked to reason. Put simply IF Tony's teach protected him from emotions then he wouldn't be so damn emotionally lead.

Finally I'd like to see scans of ANY TPer who isn't also an empath controlling the emotions rather than the reasoning centres of the brain.

Ultra is very far from soloing, as I already explained, all his backup bodies will be busy fighting the 20 sentinels and 30 robots with the aid of some armors from Tony helping with those as well, however, because of the sheer amount of armors Tony can bring to this battle, he can spare some armor to use as both body guards and attack dogs.

Yeah Ultra IS soling the teams because I still have Hellstrom who can handle everything else. Hellstrom who can simply BFR all the sentinels etc by creating a portal to hell, Or melt them with hellfire that burns with greater intensity than normal fire. there are many ways that Hellstrom could deal with all of this AND your ironman armors. He will of course only do so as needed since none of this is a threat to my team because they can't penetrate his shields, but they are a hindrance to the other teams.

A force field that can easily be broken by either Thor or Iron Man, on the god of thunder´s case, Magneto mentioned his forcefield wouldn´t last long against Thor´s strikes, and in another instance he alsoo destroyed and Kang´s force fields.

By All means PROOF that Thor can do what a Dormammu possessed Hood and Blackheart could not??? Because scans of him breaching the shields of magneto and Graviton, who wouldn't be able to contain even a NON possessed Hood aren't cutting it. Just because your team has feats of breaching lower powered shileds doens't mean they can breach greater.

Same as with @heirtothekingdom, you did not provide a single durability feat for either Daimon or Ultra to suffice they could tank repeated strikes from the god of thunder, who by the way, is morals off, which is quite scary for anyone opposing him,

hahahaha, seriously, did you even read my post?? I provided feats of Ultra drowing pre COIE Superman. Of a bloodlusted Superman (from the time line when he was made to belive he'd just watched Lois die by max Lord) needing MMH AND Guy Gardner to hold Ultra while Supes pounded on him and still do no damage. What exactly do you think Thor is going to do here ??? Not to mention I haven't even touched on what Ulta can do with BOTH his TK and his personal force fields.

His TK casually shattering Alan Scot's contrstucts with ta little juice from Deathbolt (or do you think that electricity did it??, the 4th scan shows not)

Then we have his Scientific force field tanking the blasts of BOTH Brainwave Jnr and Star Spangled kid. The same Brainwave Jnr who ALSO shatters Alan Scot's constructs with those blasts (the 3rd scan).

Now if you want some idea of just how powerful Star's blasts are

Vulcan son of fire could break Classic Fate's spells with his blasts AND tank Fate's most powerful attacks but was destroyed by those of Star.

A little more on that TK

Matter or energy makes no difference. As seen he TK throws around not one but TWO teams the combined forces of Teen Titans AND Infinity Inc. There are qute a few powerhouses in that lot.

which is also why Ultra could simply drain Thor or Iron man of power

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Chimeroid

While your team is well formed you are not taking a lot of consideration in the option of being instantly attacked by some of the characters. Even with the feats you offered being attacked by someone like Brutaal or Injustice Supes could really slow your strategy down, if not stop it.

I had, the force field from Daimon covers it. PLUS I really hadn't used my actual characters much at all. I mean my two characters remain safe behind a force field and let the spare ape bodies engage you physically as a distractions. We put up force fields either by Ultra's TK or Daimon's magic as required to protect them until we get hold of the Medusa mask /end game. Anything that does become a threat to great to deal with we simply BFR eitther by Daimon or ultra who has mentally teleported himself to safety before as well as his devices.

Jiraiya_sageofoil

Apparently he believes I am no threat to him as he posted nothing to deal with my team.

As that is the case I should easily deal with him as he's not even trying to fight me. Ergo my plan goes by uninterupted by him and when his emotions are out of control and he is ruled by them I win by him tearing up his own team.

Heir to the kingdom

Are they all as powerful as the original Ultra Humanite?

Quite simply NO. Most of Ultra's true power comes from his brain. His back up bodies only get that when he transplants (or these days teleports) it into the body.Ergo none of his back up bodies have his TP or TK. They simply have the physicals that his genetic mutations gave them. Physicals that allow them to fight Superman + Martian Manhunter +Guy Gardner, and beat Powergirl to a pulp. They also therefore have the bodies durability to blunt force trauma, and likewise are as susceptible to energy attacks as Ultra is without his TK, or force fields ( PG burned the F#$% out of one body with her heat vision)

what's stopping Hayden from taking them to his side for the battle given he could telepathically battle Ultra for them?

Scans of Heyden TP copntrolling dumb animals that don't have higher brain function or emotions but only instinct ???

I've shown the scans for Ultra controlling them but that isn't what normal TPers do.

Orion has given Superman safeguards with a Mother Box

Most of this is ABC logic. and it fails because of it. The protection of the mother box was against mid probes, that wasn't what Hive Queen did in your scan. It also wasn't a feat for Hayden. Not to mention the fact that even if it was Hive Queens Tp assault /= to her defense. I've already provided scans that Proove Ultra's mantal ability isn't TP and works in a different way. So there is no proof Heyden can do anything to him with TP. We know that BW Snr couldn't and he has planetary level TP feats. .

Basically what i'm trying to get at is, Hayden has easily overpowered a group of telepaths (Hector Hammond, Hive Queen, and Lois Lane) who are all incredibly powerful.

So has Ultra.

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That's MMH, Jemm, Hector hammond and Grodd all TP and a few others enslaved. Yes he also used equipment, but I've already shown how easy it would be for him to have it here on the battlefield in an instant.

Not really, as Brutaal is much faster than any one of them. Seeing as how I have telepathically taking control of Injustice Superman and potentially Sani and Jirou, I have quite a good amount of not only powerful characters, but fast.

  1. My Apes arrived in Ultra's Time capsule base. he's a member of the masters of time. he has TP linked with himself in the future. speed can be worked around
  2. Daimon is also a time manipulator
  3. Ultra has mental abilities to match if not exceed those of Heyden. There's no certainty you have taken control of anyone.
  4. any and all of my minions can be shielded either of my team in several ways

I don't think the Ultra's can tag him even though they may be powerful enough to harm him.

Brutaal was shown to be quite easily mind controlled. He wont resist much if at all. The fact that both of us can TP only means that at most all the other players on the field are stuck with us fighting over their minds and unable to do crap.

Hayden has TK too, so I don't think he's simply going to allow Ultra to take the mask of him.

Thing and say Atom Smasher have Super Strength too. But if Hulk, or Thor or Superman wanted to take something from their hands they wont be able to stop them. As you can see from the feats to show Thor_parker82 Ultra's TK is on that level, proof Heyden's is also??

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#94  Edited By Thor-Parker
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Round 2

Prepare for the invincibly mighty duo, the god of thunder and the billionare philantropist, here to take the win in this massive royal rumble, they´re morals off, willing to do whatever it takes to go home with the win, prepare to face my team and lose.

Counters

Chimeroid - Countering his arguments

While I like the strategy you made for the tourney, i believe you are the one who takes this tourney turning into a 6 way battle the worst.

The strategy and feats of Tony helping Thor out of TP are great and incredibly useful since you have proven Tony can stall the fight with Thor long enough to accomplish it.

But here's the kicker.

The reason that will fail here is because Tony (as everyone else on the field) has to work to survive 2 evil Supermen on the field. Massively powerful Toriko team, a Juggernaut and whatever everyone is concocting as their summons. He will be too overwhelmed to help Thor like he did in your scans.

Yet, as I have shown, Tony has what it takes to deal with any opponent that engages him in battle, he is being severely underrated and all of you are acting as if this was normal Iron Man and that he would get overwhelmed quickly, however, this is a composite Iron Man, much more powerful and physically imposing, he can deal and hold his own against anyone here, he has as much chance of defeating them.

For a quick recap, his "Hulked-Out Endo Sym armor" was able to physically stomp the WWH Hulkbuster faster and easier than Hulk himself did, he siphoned energy from Jupiter to further power his armor and he withstood being in the blast radius of Sol´s hammer, which wiped out all of the Shi´ar.

Too bad since i totally see you taking this tourney if it was 1v1 CaV's. And that is why your strategy fails.

I mean your entire post is a series of 1v1 debates instead of focusing on the bigger picture

Thanks, my strategy doesn´t fail though, I´m not focusing on 1v1 battles, I did it that way so it can be clear for everyone that no matter who decides to attack my team, they have what it takes to take out any of them, which makes it easier in the readers´ mind to figure out how certain characters would fare when pitted against another.

Dracula will bite Apocalypse getting a massive power upgrade. From what we have seen Apocalypse Amps are so strong, when applied to Hulk he was able to stomp out the Juggernaut, and completely stop his momentum. Something that should be impossible.

Please provide some proof that Dracula will get a power upgrade from biting Apocalypse.

As you will see in a moment, either member of my team is more than capable of defeating Dracula on a direct confrontation, take Thor for example, he is superior in every way, doesn´t matter where you look from, Dracula isn´t taking on Thor, he is not taking on Iron Man either whom with the Hulkbuster momentarily held his own physically against World War Hulk. To further prove Dracula will be taken out pretty quickly, let´s use one of your own scans as proof.

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A single lightning bolt was enough to severely weaken Dracula, one more would surely knock him out when taking into account the shape Dracula was in, another option is that Iron Man uses his repulsor blasts after Dracula is weakened by the lightning and takes him out while Thor deals with Apocalypse, just as a reminder, Iron Man can level mountains with his repulsor blasts and took out MODOK who has shield capable of withstanding a nuclear attack.

As for Apocalypse, now that is a tasty one, Apocalypse is a tricky enemy because of his celestial armor, Thor has faced him before and knows that without Jarnbjorn, his armor is nigh impenetrable, so he knows there is no time for direct confrontation considering all the other players in here, thus, he will BFR En Sabah Nur. As I showed in my last post, Iron Man encased an alternate Apocalypse in a force field, he can do that here then Thor will proceed to open a portal with mjolnir and BFR Apocalypse. Just to let you know, Thor was able to BFR the goddamn Destroyer armor while engaging it in battle.

So, with the help of Stark and his force-field, BFR´ing Apocalypse will prove a much easier task.

New_World_Order - Countering his arguments

I can agree Tony's shielding against telepathic attacks is very good, however what i'm trying to say is you don't have basic knowledge in this battle, so how is he going to know?

Quite easily actually, Tony and Thor have been allies for several years, they know each other, but not only that, they´re going to fight as a team when suddenly Thor starts attacking him and acting weird, in that very moment Tony will know his ally is being manipulated, he has experience with this kind of thing, and he showed very quick deduction of telepathy in "AXIS #1".

Tony is among the weakest characters in this battle, so he's going to be struggling greatly from the beginning trying to stay alive. You think he's going to have time to be thinking about Thor being telepathically assaulted to save him? I don't think so, which wouldn't even matter if he did because all anyone who has telepathic abilities in this battle would need to do is take out Tony.

That is your problem though, Iron Man is not the weakest character in here, certainly not with a composite armor which included the likes of Hulkbuster which held his own (before being ultimately defeated) against World War Hulk, or the Hulked out Endo Sym armor which in turn physically stomped said Hulkbuster faster than Hulk himself did, Tony is not lacking in the physical department.

Given Hayden has telepathically taking over Injustice Superman and has Brutaal as an ally, do you think Tony is going to last? I am 100% sure he's not take either in a fight one on one even with the Hulk Buster given how powerful and fast they are. Thor is powerful, but he's not taking both, so regardless of how you look at it, Thor is coming to my team.

You´re forgetting something though, I have ten 100 tonners as my personal bodyguards for Iron Man, more specifically, the armors I summoned to this battle, this will give Tony the 10-20 seconds he needs to prevent Thor from being further telepathically assaulted, not to mention that Hayden will probably use whoever he has as his minion to go for Ultra Humanite since he doesn´t know any of my characters whereas I think he does know Humanite and his power. Thor is not going to your team.

This was after Tony had seen the Avengers fighting and didn't realize that it was telepathy until after. I'm also saying that their are quite a few telepaths here, so Tony may have to find the right frequency for all of them (if that's how it works), which I don't think is possible to do at the same time. Given the things I brought up above, it just solidifies that Thor is going to get mentally assaulted whether Tony wants for it to happen or not.

Like I just said, Tony will know if Thor is being manipulated by TP, if he suddenly starts attacking him and acting weird, in that very moment Tony will know Thor is being manipulated and will grant him TP defense. As for the others trying to TP Thor, the only ones I have to worry about are Apocalypse and Ultra Humanite, the former doesn´t use TP as a method of attack and the latter isn´t powerful enough to control the mind of Thor.

I think we both know as Thor fans that if Thor was to truly bring forth his most powerful blows, Tony would be finished here. Luckily, the characters I have with me (Brutaal & Injustice Superman), don't hold back, so good luck on Tony surviving their blows. Even so, I think the telepathy is very well relevant as I've gone over it thoroughly above and have yet to see a counter other than "Tony's shielding can block it". That's not going to cut it because Tony will have his hands full himself against foes above his paygrade, he may have to find multiple frequencies give their are multiple telepaths here, Hayden can have his teammates and minions take out Tony so Thor can be manipulated or simply Thor gets manipulated before the shielding is even up.

Yes, we are both big fans of Thor, however, I´m also a big fan of Iron Man, and as such, I see him being constantly underrated and labeled as a "mid-tier" when he´s actually a "low high-tier", he can´t defeat Thor or Hulk, that much is a fact, but he can hold his own and not get completely stomped by them if they´re morals on, which is what the majority of people don´t understand and think otherwise despite actual showings showcasing Tony holding his own against both of them on different occasions.

There is another problem with your paragraph above, you are still thinking of this as a regular Iron Man, but he isn´t, I´m using a composite version which gives him a huge power boost to the point of being able to physically overpower an armor faster than Hulk was able to do it, a healing factor better than Wolverine´s, and one armor I haven´t brought up yet, which will basically shut down any arguments you might have of Iron Man being defeated, not because of its feats, it doesn´t have many, but because of its sheer durability which no one in here will be able to overcome, I present to you, the URU ARMOR.

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As the name implies it, it´s made of Uru, further enchanted by Odin himself, said enchantement allowed the likes of Wolverine and Red She Hulk to fight evenly against the Serpent´s worthy. Just so you know, the worthy got a massive amp, one example is The Thing, when he was with the Serpent´s worthy, he physically stomped and humilliated Red Hulk whereas a normal Thing would most likely get beaten by Ross.

So, you now have to deal with an enchanted armor by Odin made of Uru, the same material mjolnir is made from, so good lucking bypassing the durability of the Uru in Tony´s armor.

That morals off Thor you have there can go from that to a morals on Thor in a split second once Hayden plays with his emotions. It's not a game changer in the least here. He's done things like make Power Girl feel happy and shy, imagine a shy Thor, he'll loose all of that bloodlust instantly.

Any chance of Thor getting mind control by Hayden will suddenly be dealt with by Stark, any tactic you have against my team that involves mind control will prove innefective as I have proven Tony can deal with any opponent here while shielding Thor from TP, so once again, Thor will be morals off, and as a Thor fan yourself, you know that´s quite scary for any opponent.

As for Brutaal's durability, it's nothing short of insane like himself. When Brutaal killed Darkseid's uncle Stephenwolf with a karate chop, the resulting explosion given when a New God as powerful stephenwolf was larger than continents (Earth 2 #16)

The resulting blast destroyed everything around, yet Brutaal stood in it with no harm at all.

Well, that´s very impressive, I won´t argue that, however, Thor can outperform that damage output, even more so considering he´s morals off and destroyed a planetoid as a side effect of his strike on Beta Ray Bill during "Blood and Thunder", it is worth to note that he was not in warrior´s madness as most people believe.

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There´s more, a pretty famous feat around here which you´re probably well aware of, Thor had a head to head battle with Gorr in space, and Thor was hitting him so hard that nearby moons began to crack, this happens specifically in "Thor: God of Thunder #9".

It is important to note two things in here, the narration states that Thor is hitting as hard as he can, he is exhausting himself with each hit, but he was also weakened, the narration also let us now that the necrosword is burrowing deeper in his flesh and eating him from the inside, so while he actually was exhausting himself with each hit, he was weakened as well, so he wasn´t unleashing all the power he would normally do if he went all out.

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Attacks like these would surely make a number on Brutaal, and I remind you this is a morals off Thor, so he won´t be pulling any punches in this battle.

Hayden is not durable at all, he's pretty much a glass canon, but that doesn't take away from how powerful he is. Not that it matters much because Tony won't be here long enough to engage him. Even if he somehow is, Hayden can put up illusions throughout the battle to through him off.

Iron Man´s armor can scan for life signs and heat signatures, as soon as he attacks an illusion he´ll use those features to pinpoint the real Hayden and get rid of him, another option is an AOE attack, both strategies perfectly capable of taking down the glass canon as you stated.

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As for Iron Man, like I showed in the "composite" section, he simply shrugged off a planetary amped Magneto who was siphoning energy to amp his punches.

Would this really be used given that it wasn't a new amour or anything, but more so Tony preparing for a battle against Magneto. Had he not had preparation for that fight, I don't think he would usually do this.

The only thing Iron Man had prepared for was magnetism, nothing else, not to mention his durability is what counts here and not the part where he siphoned energy to amp his strikes, as striking is a completely different subject, and even then, he can always siphon energies from planets, it´s just that he doesn´t do it regularly, then again, the durability part where he shrugged off amped strikes from Magneto is what you need to focus on.

So one-shotting a powerful New God and destroying nanites that New 52 Superman couldn't destroy isn't enough to say Brutaal can't even take out Iron Man...interesting. How about Brutaal stomping Doctor Fate so hard that his helmet was cracked and the entire base around them was leveled. Keep in mind he's doing this casually.

You are still underestimating Iron Man with that paragraph above, Tony is very much in the same tier as everyone here thanks to his composite armor, and he´s basically invulnerable to physical attacks because of his uru armor, so yeah, the things you mention above are not enough to take out a dude who has an armor enchanted by Odin and made of the same material freaking mjolnir is made of, not to mention, Iron Man has shaken half of New York in a clash he had with Hulk in "World War Hulk #1", just as impressive, if not more, than Brutaal shaking a base.

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Jirayia_Sageofoil - Countering his arguments

The fanfir feat is cool yet not as impressive as sani reflecting an attack to destroy a 1 trillion ton mountain or Jirou stopping a planet 2x the size of Jupiter with a punch. Sani is capable of eating thor and iron man energy attacks and reflecting physical ones

I would argue that Thor cracking distant moons as a side effect of his fight with Gorr is just as impressive as those two considering Thor´s attacks were not even directly at the objects and just by the sheer shockwaves they got destroyed, not to mention Thor was weakened during the instance, you also have that.

Any energy attack your team uses against Iron Man will only help me and amplify the chances of beating your team, as Tony can absorb energy attacks and amp himself with it, then redirecting those same attacks with more power as shown in "Avengers: End Times".

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So, if the energy attacks from your team are as powerful as they seem, it would backfire against you as Iron Man would absorb them and redirect them back at your team members, thus taking them out of this battle.

Beatboks1 - Countering his arguments

Daimon's force fields have contained the Hood when possessed by Dormammu and Blackheart. The Blackheart one shows his Force fields were even stronger than those of Invisible woman (who couldn't). None has brought a player with power greater than these so if they can't penetrate this shield then no one here will.

There is a very important factor you´re not mentioning, The Hood wasn´t nearly as powerful as Dormammu, the former was the main villain in Bendis´ New Avengers, a team that is composed mainly by street levelers such as Captain America (Bucky), Spider-Man, Wolverine and Luke Cage, the only heavy hitter being Doctor Strange, yet The Hood never managed to defeat this team in the numerous encounters they had, Strange stopped being the sorcerer supreme and Brother Voodo took his place, hence why he´s in your scan and Hellstrom holding The Hood was actually the first story arc in "New Avengers" where he made an appearance. So yeah, The Hood was still a low-high tier at best, Dormammu didn´t manifest his true powers while possessing the Hood, so it diminishes your feat greatly.

If in fact our minds controlled our emotions than many of the fool hardy things that Tony has done due to pride and other "emotions" would not have occured. never mind the fact that everyone who is reading is well aware that it is actually very difficult to control the ones emotions.

Dude, no offense but what are you even talking about here ?? Tony has shielding in his armor that prevents people from entering his brain, not an "emotion controler", so I don´t see why you link Tony´s shielding with his personality. Also, you are disregarding a scientific explanation of how our emotions work, not a very smart thing to do while debating, here is the information of how our emotions work (again).

"Your brain is a complex network that processes vast quantities of information every second. Part of the brain's information-processing network includes neurons, or cells that transmit signals throughout the brain. Neurons send signals through neurotransmitters, which are chemicals some release and others receive. These chemicals essentially let the parts of the brain communicate with each other.

The three most commonly studied neurotransmitters are dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. Dopamine is related to experiences of pleasure and the reward-learning process. In other words, when you do something good, you're rewarded with dopamine and gain a pleasurable, happy feeling. This teaches your brain to want to do it again and again. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter associated with memory and learning. Researchers believe it plays a part in the regeneration of brain cells, which has been linked to easing depression. An imbalance in serotonin levels results in an increase in anger, anxiety, depression and panic. Norepinephrine helps moderate your mood by controlling stress and anxiety.

Abnormalities in how the brain receives and processes these chemicals can have a big effect on your emotions. For example, when you do something rewarding or pleasurable, the part of your brain that processes that information interacts with the chemical dopamine. If your brain can't receive dopamine normally, the result is that you feel less happy -- or even sad -- after what should have been a happy experience. Studies of people with major depressive disorder (MDD) have shown that they have fewer serotonin receptors in their brains."

Here is the source for the information above:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/5-ways-your-brain-influences-your-emotions2.htm

It actually states on panel that he doesn't control minds, he maps and controls their neural pathways. Essentially switching of a light switch on a wall that is some distance from the light (or brain) so he doesn't have to enter it at all.

Yes, I got it the first time, but in order to map and control neural pathaways, you need to enter the brain, which is the place where they originate, without entering the brain you simply can not control anyone, and Iron Man has shielding that prevents people from entering or manipulating his brain, simply put, no one here is controlling Iron Man.

Put simply IF Tony's teach protected him from emotions then he wouldn't be so damn emotionally lead.

Again, what are you talking about here ?? Tony´s armor protects him from people manipulating his brain, it doesn´t fix his personality.

Finally I'd like to see scans of ANY TPer who isn't also an empath controlling the emotions rather than the reasoning centres of the brain.

Already posted it, in "Axis #1" Red Skull with Xavier´s brain manipulated everyone into rage, except for Tony.

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Yeah Ultra IS soling the teams because I still have Hellstrom who can handle everything else. Hellstrom who can simply BFR all the sentinels etc by creating a portal to hell, Or melt them with hellfire that burns with greater intensity than normal fire. there are many ways that Hellstrom could deal with all of this AND your ironman armors. He will of course only do so as needed since none of this is a threat to my team because they can't penetrate his shields, but they are a hindrance to the other teams.

No, Ultra simply isn´t soloing, Daimon BFR´ing the Sentinels is a solid tacticit if you can prove he consistently does that, however, none of what you´ve brought up so far shows how you´ll deal with my team, the armors aren´t getting BFR unless you can show Hellstrom pulls that move consistently. You are overrating Daimon´s shield, they´ll certainly get penetrated as I´ll show in a moment.

By All means PROOF that Thor can do what a Dormammu possessed Hood and Blackheart could not??? Because scans of him breaching the shields of magneto and Graviton, who wouldn't be able to contain even a NON possessed Hood aren't cutting it. Just because your team has feats of breaching lower powered shileds doens't mean they can breach greater.

Already debunked The Hood possesed by Dormammu being impressive, not only that, you are unbearably lowballing Magneto´s and Graviton´s shield, Mags shields have withstood a blast from a phoenix powered Jean Grey, whereas Graviton´s shields have withstood all the Avengers attacking him at once until "Quasar" came in and shattered them.

Now to prove why Thor can and will get through Daimon´s shields, I didn´t want to do this, but since you´re bringing Blackheart into play and to my understanding he´s pretty high up in the food chain, I´m bringing the big guns into play as well, namely Galactus and his helmet getting broken by a bullrush from the god of thunder in "The Mighty Thor (2011) #1-6"

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Whether you like it or not, this is actually consistent, Thor has damaged Galactus a couple of times and people on that tier as well, of course he can´t defeat them, but he can damage and/or stagger them which is proof enough that he´ll get through Daimon´s shields, that so far, you´ve only shown one good feat.

I provided feats of Ultra drowing pre COIE Superman. Of a bloodlusted Superman (from the time line when he was made to belive he'd just watched Lois die by max Lord) needing MMH AND Guy Gardner to hold Ultra while Supes pounded on him and still do no damage. What exactly do you think Thor is going to do here ?

Umm, none of those are durability feats except being punched by Superman.....care to show the next page after that ??

Thor strikes much harder than Superman, especially a morals off Thor who won´t be pulling his punches and will be constantly delivering planetary strikes to anyone who goes near him, for instance, even a morals on Thor is quite scary, in "Uncanny Avengers Vol. 1 #8" where he completely vaporized a landmass 1/2 mile wide and claimed he could level an entire city, namely Rio de Janeiro, with a single lightning bolt.

A lightning strike like that would surely make a number on either Ultra Humanite or Daimon Hellstrom.

His TK casually shattering Alan Scot's contrstucts with ta little juice from Deathbolt (or do you think that electricity did it??, the 4th scan shows not)

That´s nice, not enough to put down the god of thunder or destroy Iron Man´s uru armor.

Thor, for example, continued fighting after being struck by Death Seed Sentry in "Uncanny Avengers Vol. 1 #10", said punch shook the entire planet, and in case you´re wondering, that planet was bigger than earth as it contained 19 billion people as opposed to earth´s 7 billion.

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As for Iron Man, I don´t think I need to provide feats, because although he lacks feats with the uru armor, the very fact that it is made of the same material as mjolnir, then further enchanted by Odin, assures that his durability won´t be bypassed by anyone here, and even in the highly unlikely case someone managed to actually damage the uru, Iron Man has a healing factor better than Wolverine´s and he would repair himself instantly as he showed with Model Prime armor in "Civil War II #5".

Then we have Ultra´s Scientific force field tanking the blasts of BOTH Brainwave Jnr and Star Spangled kid. The same Brainwave Jnr who ALSO shatters Alan Scot's constructs with those blasts (the 3rd scan).

I very much doubt that Ultra´s or Daimon´s force fields would be able to tank repeated strikes from a morals off Thor, even more so when a morals on Thor used an attack so powerful that it made Ego the living planet shake and left him stunned, Ego was defeated and he was so afraid of Thor´s attack that he swore he would never try to conquer the universe.

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Neither will he be able to withstand a blast from the Phoenix Buster which tore the Phoenix Force into 5 pieces and forced it to take some of the X-Men as its hosts, if this blast was enough to damage the freaking Phoenix Force then neither Ultra´s or Daimon´s force-fields will be able to withstand this blast.

Ultra could simply drain Thor or Iron man of power

Show me scans of Ultra draining someone with mystic powers and a god being like Thor, or draining powers made from technology on the level of Tony Stark who is a genius and the best in marvel earth regarding engineering.

For all these reasons and more, my team wins.

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#96  Edited By Jeopardy
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@acrokat said:

T4V, looks very interesting.

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