Monkey D. Luffy vs. Sasuke Uchiha.

@uchiha454: a log? Clones?

You do know that kenbunshoku haki grants it's users complete spiritual awareness of their surroundings.

@uchiha454: Thats not a vs situation. Assuming Sasuke has enough time to coat himself in Susanoo and assuming he has enough time to coat Enton around Susanoo, three things are bound to happen.

A: Luffy kills Sasuke before he is able to get Susanoo up.

B: Luffy kills Sasuke with his Susanoo up but without Enton coat.

C: Luffy kills Sasuke with his Susanoo + Enton coat, but dies himself afterwards.

Given Luffy's speed, A or B is the most likely answer that comes to mind. Even then, there's no way this is not a stomp.

@uchiha454: As I've said before, Raikage was able to survive without the flames of Enton spreading for about half a minute before he chopped his hand. Its not instant. Its plenty of time for Luffy to stomp. Even then, his Armament Haki has resistant intense flames that were able to combust underwater. Luffy can survive long enough to stomp Sasuke. In the extreme of cases, he can chop off his hand.

@lowlaville: C is the most likely/best outcome for Luffy because he activated it in the midst of Raikage's Liger Bomb, he can do it in a instant. But all Sasuke has to do is really evade Luffy after the first hitthen he will be burning and he can hide in the forrest of death that does not seem that hard for a ninja.

@uchiha454: Are you serious? lol. Luffy can do about 30 hits/second or more. He can break through Susanoo with one hit and KO Sasuke with the other. Really, in less than a second. If you watched Luffy's fight with Luccy, he used Tekkei in order to harden and tank Luffy's gattling gun but Luccy was clearly overwhelmed with the number of hits that was used on him. Susanoo will explode and then Luffy will hit Sasuke and KO or kill him before he can react.

Luffy is faster than Raikage is anyday. I have not been given any speed feats from Raikage to say otherwise.

@lowlaville: I am not deaf to reason, where is a Luffy striking feat that shows he has the same power as one of Tsunade hits. Luffy did lift the 700 ton gold ball but stating his hits are stronger than Tsunade in his battle with Lucci is laughable. It took Luffy some time to break that wall while Tsunade would have punched Lucci into the middle of the ocean with one hit. Luffy's final blow against Lucci won't break through Sasuke's susanoo anytime before he is burned to death. Sorry to compare his strength to Tsunade so much but she is the only one to break susanoo through physical attacks so she's the standard.

tsunade has greater striking power than luffy?

sasuke isn't insta speed blitzed?

ameterasu's effects are instant?

substitution jutsu? clones? sasunoo?

what have i come back to? has anyone ever heard of gear third? gear 2nd? raikage's arm and karin and the toads stomach and killer bee? KENBUNSHOKU HAKI?? like seriously.

plus sasuke's genjutsu is really shitty regardless. and he's NOT as fast as weightless lee. since when do we blindly accept character staements?

Luffy definitely stomps round 1.

round 2 is whatever idec

You are talking about G2's striking feats. His power is concentrated and lethal to the point, one M3 cyborg who pre timeskip the entire strawhat crew had trouble dealing with, Luffy solostomps the feat. I gues you've never seen Luffy hurling the 700T gold ball around. He wasn't just lifting it.

Here's Luffy swining around the same gold ball.

Above is a clash with Chinjao, the guy, the guy with enough power to split an ice continent, an extremely durable ice continent.

To exert this level of strength to a building and breaking a city in the process is a humangous strength feat.

As I said before, Luffy has resisted burning, without so much as a scratch on him, from flames hot enough to ignite underwater.

Now guess what? Luffy's massive strength is hidden in his Elephant Gun. He can even use Elephant Gattling Gun, the same gun used against Chinjao and Ceaser. As in, the same strength with which he was swinging around the golden ball.

To see it clearly...

I don't think I need to say just how strong Luffy is here. Against Luccy, he was only using G2. G3 is a different level of stomp, just not the same speed as G2. Enough to deal with Sasuke.

The smallish looking building/tower Luffy destroyed pretimeskip was an extremely big building to begin with. Those marine ships, which are large enough to carry giants, fall short in comparison to just that tower alone.

@lowlaville:

Uh....Enel does possess combat speed to match up to Raikage or even beyond that level. Its extreme lowballing if you say its genin level. He kept up with Luffys reverse Gattling Gun's random movement despite being near impossible to predict. Of course, Luffy finally manages to hit him. In fact, during the initial stage of the fight, he was beating Luffy around. It was extreme WIS and PIS in that whole fight.

Why is it extreme lowballing? Genins do have very good speed feats.. in fact, most of the speed feats are from the first few arcs. Rest is just scaling.

Only reason enel was even a threat to luffy (only luffy, as he is immune to thunder, otherwise enel is between VA and admiral level imo) was because luffy in the arc was slow, and without gears. Even then, he needed precog to actually get an advantage over that luffy. I'm not sure how much have you caught up with one piece since our CAV, but enel didn't keep up with luffy's reverse gatling:

If his reflexes were good enough, he'd be able to react to it. Fact is, they weren't. He only reacted to even non-geared luffy because of the precog.

I did not miss the panel. It had as much credibility as Amaterasu being burning as hot as the sun. Showings clearly say otherwise, and the Shippuden Naruto SD fight clearly states otherwise. It was exegerration or hyperbole. Lee is clearly faster than Sasuke is on numerous instances.

How does showings say otherwise? Both lee and gai said sasuke achieved that speed. There isn't anything that says otherwise.. I don't even see why naruto SD filler fights are being brought up.

You can't be serious. lol Lee and Sasuke showed speed thats relative to Bellamy, thats the peak those genins managed to reach. And Bellamy is a very low tier when it comes to speed in OPverse. I've shown the video above. In both cases as Lee, Sasuke and Bellamy, they momentarily disappear from sight from the viewers. A preskip not only reacted to Bellamy, he tagged and defeated the guy with a single punch.

1. Yes, bellamy disappeared from sight. That's cool. In fact, that isn't the first time anyone in one piece showed such speed. Captain kuro did it way before bellamy did. What I don't see is how that's 'peak' for the genins.

Haku, without mirrors, did the same:

lee without weights did the same to gaara. And that's before he even used the 5x upgrade of intial lotus. And then whatever the boost is of in extreme lotus. Not much of a peak, is it?

2. Luffy did tag and defeat bellamy. Just standing there and reacting. His reactions have always been first grade. But he actually gets that kind of speed himself after gear second, not before it. Sasuke doesn't have to react to his reaction speed, he has to react to his movement speed, which he has been since pre-shippuden.

You are assuming too much here. Sasuke used the speed once in battle, never again. He usually relies on genjutsu, susanoo, Kenjutsu and sometimes his Ninjutsu. Here rarely ever uses speed manuevors using Taijutsu. I've already shown Sasuke beaten by lee post shippuden in Taijutsu and speed. Sasuke DOES NOT possess speed equal to Lee.

I know. I already said I'm not using it to claim sasuke is faster than luffy, because it doesn't affect the fight. He's more of a ninjutsu type fighter than a stat type one. Sasuke beaten by lee post shippuden? When did that happen, exactly? Sasuke didn't even fight lee in shippuden...

Sasuke DOES NOT possess speed equal to Lee.

Sasuke possesses equal speed to lee without weights. Both guy and lee say that. I don't see how what you think counts against them.

Lee is faster than sasuke because of the gates. Initial lotus (gate 1) gives him a boost about five times.. and extreme lotus gives another unknown amount.

As for Gaara, his power due to the Jinchurikki was levels above any mere Kage. And he had better control over his tailed beast as a Jinchurikki. He is no less a genius than Sasuke was. He retained the same abilities without the tailed beast. His speed though, is nowhere near enough to tag Raikage, not saying it cannot pose a problem for Raikage. Essentially, there's no point to mentioning this. Because there was no way Sasuke was touching either of them. Just the Enton proved lethal there.

Uh. nope. Gaara, during the chunin exams was extremely limited in his technique. Most of his power came from shukaku.

After chunin exam, however, he actually began to use his own powers. (Which is seen against kimimaro) His jutsu at the time (desert avalanche, imperial funeral) are on a completely different scale than what he could do with shukaku's powers. Which he takes further after the time-skip.

The scans are not clear in the manga. Its not like the depiction of motion can be carried out exactly as the author wants it to. The anime is a definite backer to any manga related feat. You want to say otherwise? Usually, the manga and anime compliment each other, but the anime ends up showing more detail.

Not clear in the manga? How much clearer do you want it to be? No matter what the anime does, manga takes the precedence.

Now take the trail of smoke that formed around Gaara when Sasuke ran around him. There were clear and definite differences in both Lee's and Sasuke's case. If the same thing had occured, why the difference in artworks?

Because sasuke is facing gaara on ground, while lee faced him on a floor? or maybe because seeing the exact same artwork everytime would be uninteresting for the reader and mangaka? And anyway, both guy and lee agree on sasuke having achieved non-weight lee's speed. Settled.

---------------------

You've clearly missed them running together. And then out of nowhere Lee goes Gates and thats when the blitz happens. And no, Lee propels himself forward, I don't see where Gai comes in.

See, it was an all out herd attack on Obito and Madara. The fact that Naruto and Lee are at the peak of this herd tells us their relevence in speed. If Naruto was capable of reaching them, he would not have relied on a technique such as that. His shoulder also gave out. Naruto was clearly not a 100%.

Yes, they are running together. So are hinata, kakashi, guy, and a bunch of nameless shinobi. Are they all equal in speed now? and near to BM naruto?

Naruto isn't a h2h expert. He doesn't have to, or should close the gap. Rasen shurikern is one of his strongest techniques, way stronger than what he can do by getting in h2h range, which he tends to throw when he can. Why would he run after the ranged technique he just threw, especially when he's getting his shoulder healed?

Lee cannot use strong ranged attacks at all, he is a h2h expert. he has no option but to actually close the gap.

Did you miss the panel where guy says "go, lee!" and propels lee? It's right beside naruto saying 'yeah!' and throwing the FRS.

As for the relevence factor, this is important to determine your assumption that Sasuke is as fast as Lee as wrong and baseless. Sasuke is nowhere near the speed displayed.

Uh oh. Do read carefully.

Sasuke's speed against gaara = Lee's speed after taking off weights.

Lee receives five times boost in gate 1. Sasuke receives an unquantifiable boost in chidori.

We don't know how much faster either of them got in the two year time skip.

During that dome mirror technique, the mirrors were closer and adjecent to each other. Movement was fluid and distance short. It was easier for Sasuke to follow up on those compacted movements to and across from mirrors as Haku went running or charging. As Haku said, the more he used the technique infront of Sasuke, the easier it would be for him to see or otherwise predict his movement, despite which, Haku defeated Sasuke.

Again, why are you mentioning Ichigo here? and whats KNO. lol No, Sasuke only managed to react to Haku a couple of times. Thats just it.

I won't be replying to the edit part. Its essentially the same thing, just repeated.

Let's clear up the haku fight then:

Haku is around the same speed as bellamy/ a little slower than g2 luffy. Sasuke went from being unable to even see him to nearly matching his speed in the end.

Here's sasuke, unable to even see any of the attacks.

And then, his body adapts to the speed in moments, and awakens sharingan:

And here, he not only sees haku and intercept him, but lands a blow on him:

Hopefully that cleared it out.

Sasuke has reacted to mirror haku as well as KNs (kyubi naruto) pre-ts. Both of whom replicated the speed effect you showed for G2 luffy.

To sum it up:

You're saying G2 luffy is fast enough to blitz sasuke before he can activate susanoo. Or too fast for sasuke to follow. How is that true?

Yes, luffy has great reactive abilities, shown against bellamy and kuro. He's absolutely going to react to sasuke. But did he have comparable speed to any of them pre-gear 2? No. He didn't blitz or outpace them, he simply stood there and punched (or grabbed, in kuro's case) them.

He actually gains that kind of speed in CP9 arc, matching blueno in speed.

Whatever done by G2 luffy in speed (oh so blur or faster-than-sight) was done by mirror haku, and KN1. Sasuke clearly tracked them both before even getting EMS. I don't see why he won't be able to follow luffy here...

@princearagorn1:

I've shown you twice Lee's Naruto SD fight versus Sasuke. Go back and find it.

As for Haku, Sasuke never matched Haku's speed. He could react to Haku's speed. There's a difference. You are assuming speed = reaction speed. With Sasuke at least, thats not the case. Sasuke mostly uses ranged techniques to fight, even though he can augment his speed to fight H2H, that consumes stamina as Lee noted. Sasuke can predict movement with. You can go check out the Lee vs Sasuke Naruto SD fight on youtube.

I did not show any scans of Lee's speed, or Luffy's: you did. I showed you a video. Show me a video where Sasuke has reacted to someone as fast as for example Blueno, or even Luccy for instance, and then blitzing them. Show some speed feat of Raikage for the matter, that would otherwise say he is faster than Luffy, which seems to be your argument.

Lastly, show an instance where Sasuke can react to and defeat someone with reaction speed and speed of Luffy. Sasuke has been knocked down by guys like Raikage and Kakashi who moves and then attacks, like the guy Sanji was fighting of the Cp9 gang. Sasuke has never been seen showing reaction speed or speed against guys like Luccy or Blueno, or Bellamy. Even Bellamy can attack on the fly. The differenciating factor is speed combined with agility and the ability to launch attacks just the same.

Luffy is a special case himself. His attack speed, his actual speed and his overall speed and strength is greater than any opponent Sasuke has faced, given most of them has managed to half beat Sasuke, I see no reason or a way Sasuke is winning.

Replying to everything else is moot. I've more or less covered all of those points somewhere in the thread.

@lowlaville:

I've shown you twice Lee's Naruto SD fight versus Sasuke. Go back and find it.

Nice. And that changes anything why? That didn't even happen in the main manga.

As for Haku, Sasuke never matched Haku's speed. He could react to Haku's speed. There's a difference. You are assuming speed = reaction speed. With Sasuke at least, thats not the case. Sasuke mostly uses ranged techniques to fight, even though he can augment his speed to fight H2H, that consumes stamina as Lee noted. Sasuke can predict movement with.

End scan: Sasuke intercepts haku's attack on naruto and lands a blow on him. From equal, if not longer distance, actually.

I did not show any scans of Lee's speed, or Luffy's: you did. I showed you a video. Show me a video where Sasuke has reacted to someone as fast as for example Blueno, or even Luccy for instance, and then blitzing them. Show some speed feat of Raikage for the matter, that would otherwise say he is faster than Luffy, which seems to be your argument.

Lastly, show an instance where Sasuke can react to and defeat someone with reaction speed and speed of Luffy. Sasuke has been knocked down by guys like Raikage and Kakashi who moves and then attacks, like the guy Sanji was fighting of the Cp9 gang. Sasuke has never been seen showing reaction speed or speed against guys like Luccy or Blueno, or Bellamy. Even Bellamy can attack on the fly. The differenciating factor is speed combined with agility and the ability to launch attacks just the same.

Obviously. You aren't using any scans for a while. I've already shown you the scans. Intercepting mirror haku, and later nicely keeping track of Kyubi naruto till his further upgrade.

Luffy is a special case himself. His attack speed, his actual speed and his overall speed and strength is greater than any opponent Sasuke has faced, given most of them has managed to half beat Sasuke, I see no reason or a way Sasuke is winning.

...How? What luffy did in gear 2 isn't faster than VOTE naruto.. Overloading precog and moving at blur/afterimage speeds..

lol faster than raikage.

Replying to everything else is moot. I've more or less covered all of those points somewhere in the thread.

Just clearing the wrong points, Nothing else.

@princearagorn1: That naruto SD, its canon. Unless you are saying whatever happened there is not legit. It is.

You've made a credible point with Sasuke vs Haku though. Sasuke did use a range attack on Haku. Again, thats relying on Sharingans ability to predict movement. It allowed Sasuke to read Haku's movement and react accordingly, the same using a weapon. Sasuke could throw them in anticipation of where exactly Haku would be, thus landing the hit.

He barely managed to muster enough speed to save Naruto. If he did, that means he was still slower than lee at that point. He could react because he could percieve the movement. In Lee's case, Sasuke could not react despite Sharingan's movement reading.

@lowlaville:

That naruto SD, its canon. Unless you are saying whatever happened there is not legit. It is.

It's adding events that didn't take place in the manga. Canon or not, manga always takes precedence.

Btw, what made naruto SD canon, exactly?

You've made a credible point with Sasuke vs Haku though. Sasuke did use a range attack on Haku. Again, thats relying on Sharingans ability to predict movement. It allowed Sasuke to read Haku's movement and react accordingly, the same using a weapon. Sasuke could throw them in anticipation of where exactly Haku would be, thus landing the hit.

Good to see you agreeing after a long while :)

Important point is, he was able to reach naruto before haku did, when the latter was already closer, and in motion (while sasuke was standing still) Plus, he was surprised at haku targetting naruto.

See the bottom three panels of scan you just posted.

@princearagorn1: Thats where it becomes odd. Only explanation I can come up with is: Haku does not possess the same speed of reflection he possess as he travel through and across mirrors. He's obviously slower as he charges out of the mirrors at a specific target. If he really was FTL (lmao), Sasuke would not have had trouble following Lee's movements in the chuunin exam arc. He was beaten horribly in their first fight.

In the scan where Haku is blitzing Naruto, that can be assumed as being FTL speed because he was charging in and out of mirrors.

P.S: I agree with people...xD just when they actually make sense, with legit references.

@princearagorn1: As for being canon or not, the series is illustrated by one of Kishi's assistants.

@lowlaville:

I wouldn't say haku is light speed (not ftl anyway) at any time. Though the kishi did draw water near naruto's feet completely still and all, it'd indicate huge speed. Not light speed. He does say the jutsu uses reflection to transport him around, but it doesn't mean it can utilize all of the speed light has. (Like raikage using lightening, about mach 15000 to achieve great speeds, yet nowhere near the actual speeds. Or kizaru's supposed kick using light speed, about mach 909000, which can't even send people into orbit, or even through a complete block for the matter)

Haku's supposed 'light speed' is further disputed by lee intercepting him when he came back via edo tensei.

Neither naruto, nor bleach, nor one piece has any character who can fight at light speed. (kizaru and haku may have light speed transportation, though)

As for being canon or not, the series is illustrated by one of Kishi's assistants.

Yes, it was written by Kenji Taira. I don't think kishi himself had major involvement in it to make it canon though , no?

@princearagorn1:

That's what I've been saying for the most part. That Haku may be light speed during the technique demonic ice mirrors. Though back to the point at hand, if pre shippuden Sasuke intercepted Haku during one of the same charge (that lee shippuden intercepts), and Lee still defeats Sasuke in the confrontation (pre shippuden), I think it tells us that Sasuke's speed was never greater than Lee's, counted among the top speeds of Narutoverse, the same speed you have been referring to as having being adopted by Sasuke. Because if your theory of ascending speed as non-observant was correct, Sasuke should have been able to at least react to Lee because of having seen Haku's movement and reacting to it did not give him any speed.

It may have been because the technique was a kekkei genkai that cannot be copied. Even so, the reaction speed to the technique have not been helpful. After the confrontation with Lee, I will give it to Sasuke, he has been seen applying the level of speed in short bursts against opponents like Raikage and Danzou. For a large part, the Senjutsu chakra (cursed seal) was what helped Sasuke mature, with him relying on the techniques more often than not, in his fights for example against Itachi in the later phases of the fight, or pretty much just about any fight he had under Orochimarus influence.

How do you know that Sasuke isn't fast enough to react? Please explain that.

Second, when the hell did Lee defeat Sasuke besides pre chunnin exams? He never has.

Sasuke can react to v2 raikage who can almost blitz anyone in Naruto, that you're even taking fodder ninjas like Lee and Haku into the debate just shows how much you know.

Like are people actually even discussing Sasuke versus Haku? What the actual f---k? A Sasuke who litterly just activated his sharingan, the very first version (i.e weakest) of sharingan, who is also a little kid, compared to todays Sasuke who is basicly an adult (a very young one) with much more experience and moth-----ng EMS.

EMS is the very highest version of Sharingan (not including rinnegan)

@lowlaville:

That's because in speed lee>sasuke>=haku at the time ( which is just very fast, not light speed).

But post the training, Sasuke's speed = Weights off lee's speed. They both agree to that.

This is the important part, though. Lee becomes five times faster when he uses hidden lotus (gate 1). Sasuke doesn't increase in speed further, except perhaps unquantifiable boost of chidori.

But sasuke, basically weights off lee, even with sharingan, gets very badly blitzed by KN0 in VOTE fight. He's virtually unable to see naruto's movements.

So speed hierarchy pre-ts goes something like this. Initial lotus lee>=KN0>Weights off lee=exam sasuke>lee>sasuke before the exam>=mirror haku.

We don't know who is the fastest genin, though. Lee with extreme lotus, or naruto with KN1. It should probably be the former..

@lowlaville: The first video is something that looks comparable to Tsunade's strength and possibly could break susanoo in one hit but does Luffy always carry around that gold ball and even if he doesn't say he has it anyways the attack was incredibly slow I have no doubt that Sasuke will dodge that. As for Elephant Gatling it still does not settle things in a single punch Luffy is continuously firing punches to win. Sasuke's amaterasu may very well consume him before he has fired enough to break Susanoo and hit Sasuke. If Sasuke didn't have susanoo Luffy would win hands down because of his speed and strength but that is not the case. Susanoo really is the absolute defense as Sasuke said to gaara in their battle, it protects him from all angles leaving no openings he can stand their and focus Amaterasu on Luffy's head while he is using Elephant Gatling before susanoo breaks.

@uchiha454: Do you know, Luffy has enough strength to lift/carry/swing 700T Gold Ball. His punches hurt that much. All the scans showing Chinjao, and shifting those buildings all signal this strength. Its ridiculous if you assume Luffy's punches won't do damage. They actually do. At least the strength to lift/press 700T of force, it exceeds any strength Tsunade has ever shown, and comes to around Raikage's strength, capable of fighting a Tailed Beast head on physically.

Has he ever been seen reacting to someone like Lee in his Gates? I don't think so. And thats the closest to Luffy's speed in Narutoverse. In application there are faster guys like Naruto, Tobirama and Minato. But their application of speed is different. The same for Raikage. They are not actual speedsters in battle.

Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Just read and watch the video I posted on page 2. I don't believe I need to repeat my arguments. Its a Naruto SD fight between Sasuke and Lee.

If you know so much, just present the feats. Thats what I have been asking since the start of the thread.

Lastly, tone down your attitude, please. Otherwise this is the first and last of your argument I will entertain. Thankyou.

Yes, Lee is definitely one of the fastest guys in narutoverse. So is Guy. Counted among the likes of Naruto, Raikage, Minato and Tobirama. Well, Gai has never been seen going that fast. His gate usage increased his strength. Hashirama and Madara are way too epic to be counted as actual speedsters.

@lowlaville: I am not saying they won't do damage I am merely saying that they will need time which Luffy doesn't have in this fight. Luffy has speed true enough but the way he uses it places him at a major disadvantage. Luffy fire punches and only his arms are moving at insane speeds during his elephant gatling Luffy remained stationary, again why can't Sasuke aim amaterasu at his head during the assault? Although in eight gates lee may or may not be as fast as Luffy in his gears he makes better usage of it by moving his entire body rather than just his limbs as seen with Gaara in the chunnin exams, if he had used a technique similar to Luffy's elephant Gatling Gaara would have killed him before could get through his first defense of sand.

@whiteportion: Hello. Welcome to Comicvine, please remember that CV has a no swearing policy. Censorship via grawlixes are allowed though (f^&%ing) but yeah. Thanks.

You don't get it still. Well let me try again. Soru (technique CP9 used), is a technique that at base launches the user at x10 the speed of the blink of an eye. Luffy has shown he is capable of following this kind of movement at base versus Blueno. There's the video in second page. Amaterasu uses Sasuke's eye blink speed to ignite a target. Luffy will have no difficulty dodging it. Take Lucci for example. Lucci's use of the technique is eve faster than Blueno's, where Luffy needed to use G2 to follow and keep up with him. That means, Lucci was at an estimated x20 the blink of an eye speed. G2 luffy keeps up with no trouble. And this was pre time skip. Post timeskip, he is even faster. Amaterasu is not landing on Luffy unless he is somehow slower than he actually is, even given at base circumstances.

@uchiha454: Btw, here's after Luffy intercepted Blueno who was in motion using Soru.

What?

Soru works by hitting the ground 10 times very fast.

I haven't heard of it launching the user at 10x the blink of the eye, It doesn't even have a specific speed.

Luffy's soru is faster than coby's or blueno's soru. It's something like bleach's shumpo and naruto's gathering chakra to launch yourself at high speed, Or whatever different names were given to it through the series.

@princearagorn1:

Yes, Bleach's Shunpo, Naruto's Shunshin and OP's Soru, its the same technique. Shunshin is vastly inferior though, due to the prep and is limited in application. Well, Tobirama came up with a technique to bypass the said limitations- by furthering the technique. Minato perfected the usage. Between Soru and Shunpo, I'd say its the same technique.

Anyway, Blueno clearly states Luffy is able to move around in Soru, like the leapord form Lucci, and react the same.

Prep, as in?

@princearagorn1: You misread it. Users of the technique doesnt kick the ground. They kick off from the ground at x10 the speed of the blink of an eye. Can you explain how they kick the ground to go fast?

iirc, Shunshin works by compressing chakra to momentarily boost speed, to give it the effect of teleportation. This is why Jinchurikkis can have explosive speed that seems unlimited. Jinchurikkis are massive tailed beasts with unquantifiable chakra that when compressed into a smaller vassel, results in naturally fast speed.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Flicker_Technique

No. I didn't.

They hit the ground 10 times as fast as they can.

Captain kuro's shakushi was better in this regard, as it required no such action for using the technique. It gave the same amount of speed, But he didn't have the reaction speed to keep up with it and attacked randomly...

I don't get where you got this '10 times the speed of blink of eye' thing, but that's incorrect.

Speed at which eye blinks: around 1cm in 300-400 milliseconds: 3.33cm/sec.

10x that= 33 cm/sec.

Care to explain why would they use a technique to go slower than a normal person can? lol

@princearagorn1: Alright, lemme research on that. I'm relying on the OP wiki here. I've only recently started reading OP and in the current arc only. According to the wiki, its x10 the speed of the blink of an eye. Anyway, heres what the wiki says, "It was revealed that the principle of this move was to kick off the ground at least ten times in the blink of an eye." So, I assumed the speed must be relative, because from the get go, Luffy was able to keep up with the technique Soru. Notice the word kick off in the wiki. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Rokushiki/Soru

Kuro's technique is explained as being inferior to CP9's technique, because he doesn't have the reaction speed to match the speed of Soru. Furthermore, Soru can be used in variating motions.

I've read two different scans, but it says the same thing, "10 times in the moment", this is perhaps whats being referred to as kicking the ground ten times. Or perhaps there's overlaying evidence to the fact. In any case, I have nothing I can rely on as credible to the point.

Edit: In any case, I don't see how kicking the ground increases their speed....thats sketchy. Maybe its a mistranslation.

@lowlaville: Luffy wasn't using elephant Gatling the only thing he can possibly do to get through susanoo I think. He would have to use it in conjunction with elephant gatling to break it but striking from different angles will increase the time to break susanoo. Sasuke will be given numerous opportunities to hit him with Amaterasu while he is trying to do so. Also in his fight with Kabuto, Sasuke burned a field of Amaterasu around him to protect itachi. Sasuke can do this with Luffy and spam Amaterasu where he will be forced to strike from above. To win Luffy must break through susanoo immediately, which I don't see him doing. Luffy knowing Sasuke's abilities doesn't really give him an advantage, the reverse is not true. Sasuke's intellect as I said before is very high and his instinct to kill is also very high as we see most recently with obito and madara he did not hesistate in trying to kill them once he saw an opening. Sasuke will develop a plan and kill Luffy once the opening is created.

@uchiha454: You are still underestimating Luffy's strength. A single of his normal punch can deal with Susanoo.

No one Elephant Gun is getting through Susanoo, Sasuke's defense is in the top defenses of Naruto I'd rank it second above Gaara's. Madara's susanoo was able to withstand blows from Kage, and his perfected susanoo may be completely invincible although I won't speculate as we have yet to see it in action. But Sasuke's susanoo withstood a building collapsing on it while protecting others and he was able to repair the damage from mei's lava release and danzou's wind release. Not only that Sasuke's shield(susanoo) has a cross bow as a means of attack but also doubles as a shield so he a a shield on a shield Luffys not getting through those in time.

@uchiha454:

irrelevent. Do you realize Luffy is using G2 to slam his capability to swing around a 700+ ton gold ball at over 500+ blows per minute? You want to say Sasuke has a chance at defending against strength like that. Forget Raikage A, take Tsunade for instance. A single blow from Luffy is the equivalent in force.

The elephant gun you saw was dealt 5000 feet underwater on a gigantic kraken size monster, and on that Noah and the other against a guy who can sum up enough force to split an ice continent with ice that negates most forms of damage. Three of the elephant gun feats I showed you were more than enough to break a Susanoo in a single blow. The gattling gun generates half the elephant guns power as it uses both hands. Thats still half the concentrated power to crack open an ice continent.

There's no way Sasuke is matching his Susanoo to those levels. I just showed you those because you don't seem to believe he has strength. I will show you one more video, and then I'm off this thread.

@lowlaville:

the wiki needs to be edited, then lol. If you kick off the ground once, you can't kick off again, as you already have left it. 0_0

And 10 times the eye blink speed is.. way too low, considering they move several feet in a second. I haven't heard anyone saying that before.

And as I said, kuro's shakushi was better in the regard he got the same speed without the wasted movements of kicking the ground. If he just possessed reactions on the same level, it's inherently a better technique than soru.

And seriously? This is what you found fishy in one piece?

I mean.. you do know that they can kick air to jump on it, and deep seas don't have any extra pressure..and enemies just float in place till luffy finishes the gatling..

Considering you're just starting, a good advice: its one piece. It stretches physics beyond any other anime, bordering on toon force many times. Don't apply too much logic there...

@princearagorn1: - Yes, Luffy does. Like the time he dodged the explosion. He was not even in G2 with this kind of movement.

In any case, I see your point. lol

@lowlaville: uh.. he is in G2 in the scan.. which is why the 'jet stamp' on caesar.

@princearagorn1: I don't see smoke coming from his body.... (Luffy)

@lowlaville: he uses jet stamp on caesar in the very scan..

Luffy wrecks Sasuke both Rounds.

I agree to disagree, I wish this was a CaV to prove it, I may do one when I have enough time. But one of Luffy's elephant gun is not getting through Susanoo in time Sasuke will have a counter developed to eliminate Luffy as soon as he cracks susanoo. Yea I guess I'm done too cause at this point its just going back and forth.

@themagicstik: The ball is actually 700 tons, I think. Also, this one dude did this math stuff and said it was about 1331 tons or something. :o

Susano'os weakness is part of the back part. Now im not saying Luffy breaking Susanoo is completely impossible im just saying nothing Luffy has broken in OP has proved to be more durable then Complete or Perfect Susano'o this fight is really close Sasuke is a combat genius plus he has sharigan which works in the situation against Luffy and the fact Luffy can be cut. Sasuke wins both rounds but in really close fights. Luffy has to deal with Amaterasu.

Ridiculous, it's a 100 or 150 tones (and I'm being really generous with this), where are these calcs ?

@dbvse7: Luffy is also a combat genius. Though, his fighting style is improvised, he's able to come up with useful techniques in the middle of battle.

He was also able to mimic Soru just by watching CP9 doing it.

It's true that Luffy can be cut, but he could probably use Busoshoku to block against any slicing technique Sasuke could throw at him. And I also think Busoshoku would help Luffy crush Susano'o and defend against Amaterasu.

@nyas: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17596

Not sure if this is accurate. If not, then it's still 700 tons. :T