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#401 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: "Houston we have a problem" then, because , while it is certainly more than feasible for Darkseid to win---

claiming he "stomps" a woman that has overwhelmingly superior combat speed, unbreakable defensive weapons, an unbreakable lasso that can BFR him to some random dimension and/or restrain him, and God killing offensive weapons that have effortlessly affected the likes of Superman, Mongul, Medusa, the God Deimos, Doomsday, and Darkseid himself completely, utterly defies logic.

I am absolutely flabbergasted that a user of your steady, stellar analytical abilities would say such a thing.

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#402 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: @willienotwilliam: I can't help but notice-people who advocate for the possibility of Wonder Woman winning use detailed, intricate analysis to explain how that happens; people who assert Darkseid-for sure-wins is, primarily, "Herp Derp, Darkseid stomps". When asked why Diana's see-with-one's-own-eyes, demonstrably effective offensive and defensive maneuvers wouldn't work, the "response" is "Der, Darkseid stomps, that's why", or a meaningless, sub par attempt at lame snark is spewed.

This is what passes as "debate" on this site now.

Facepalm.

Exactly.

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#403 Edited by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: the thing is there are a couple of abilities darkseid has that diana has no real reply to. I am on a train and on my phone so i am making "lazy" posts and shortening the phrasing. for examples:

Telekinesis - darkseid has incapped the entire LoSH on one and Orion, miracle and firestorm on another occasion .

darkseid can also use omega effect without beams by saturating the air with invisible particles which he can activate at will like he did against forever people.

His omega beams can also go through solid matter and hit only the designated target.

Plus- diana doesnt have superman's plot shield.

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#404 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: All those things indeed could happen, which is why I said "it is certainly more than feasible for Darkseid to win"---

But for all those wonderful things to happen, it requires Diana-who's combat speed feats include lassoing Zoom while sightless (after receiving three consecutive IMPS from him, at that), roping Amazo before the android could complete it's thought/sentence/threat (despite the fact that this adversary has a super computer brain that can process matters at unfathomable rates, and had the combined speed of Superman and the Amazon at the time), and the incredible "Block A Trillion-that's with a capital "T"-Particles From The Shattered God" spectacle (which were coming at her from all over the universe at tremendous speeds at a 360 degree angle, yet she blocked them all without a single scratch)...

...the notion that a woman who has that kind of speed will just stand around with a dull look, a slack jaw, and just let Darkseid do whatever he wants to do to her is simply not reasonable. Diana is not an inanimate practice dummy who will stand around like a statue while Darkseid does his worse. On the contrary-facts show she will most likely assault him first, or easily block his offense, then attack him at speeds he can't handle.

Darkseid can win, no doubt. But evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win, too.

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#405 Posted by Helloman (28515 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid wins.

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#406 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: On the flip side, Darkseid will not stand like a dummy either, but, unlike wonder woman who has to make huge moves and attacks to harm him, he simply needs to utilize his TK to win. Also, Darkseid is fast enough to blitz Superman and react to his blitzes in combat and Darkseid's attacks are fast enough that Superman, Flash, Infinity Man, and even Lightray were not fast enough to run away from.

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#407 Edited by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid can win with difficulty accounting given his trouble with Superman and Orion. He knows Diana can block his Omega Beams by now so he'd rely on physical combat and energy blasts against her.

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#408 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: Diana's superior combat speed feats ensure that whether Darkseid "stands around like a dummy" or not is irrelevant; evidence indicates that it is just as likely for her to get to him first as it is for the reverse to occur.

Hence, my assertion that stating Darkseid "stomping" her---when her combat speed feats and battle ending lasso (she is fast and skilled enough to lasso Zoom while sightless, for goodness sakes) simply makes such a claim a not at all reasonable position to take.

Darkseid can win, no doubt. But evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win, too.

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#409 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Unlikely, but possible.

Wonder Woman has evaded his omega beams before, but Darksied has dealt with highly trained fighters, like Orion.

Her only chance is if He doesn't attack her full throttle. If He goes at her like he does to superman, she's dead.

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#410 Edited by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Ehh, i have to disagree. Let's go through your post;

Speed:

Diana's superior combat speed feats ensure that whether Darkseid "stands around like a dummy" or not is irrelevant.

Only if you start ignoring the rest of my post. Let's see, Here he swatted a speeding Superman away. (reverse order)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Or here, where he straight up blitzes Superman by moving so fast he ended up being behind Clark while SUperman was still throwing a forward punch (again, reverse):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Or, if you are one of those who like claiming that Wonder Woman is faster then Supes, here, have a scan of Darkseid moving too fast for Flash.

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Next, you said

evidence indicates that it is just as likely for her to get to him first as it is for the reverse to occur.

Except, this one is not true either, WW would have to blitz to him and hit him, while all he would need to do is raise an arm a little

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So, even if she is indeed faster than Darkseid, it is not faster enough, especially when he only needs to make a small hand gesture.

Now, Darkseid has a reply to your strongest claim - Speed, but diana has no reply to my top 3 ways Darkseid stomps.

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#411 Posted by TifaLockhart (21077 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: When Lobo hurts his hand punching Wonder Woman's face, or Wonder Woman KO's Superman with a single punch, then they're comparable in strength and durability. The only things going for Wonder Woman are her speed and bracelets, but Darkseid isn't a slouch in speed having gone blow for blow with Simonson's Orion. All he needs to do is land one touch and she is literally disintegrated like Kalibak was.

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#412 Posted by TifaLockhart (21077 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: The arguments for Wonder Woman assume Darkseid is at his worst - as he is against Superman. It'd be like if everyone claimed Wonder Woman was Deathstroke level in speed, as he embarrassed her before.

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#413 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: @chimeroid: There are very few things in life more exasperating than people who refuse to take "yes" for an answer.

Is there some kind of new form of dyslexia going around, that makes people see the words "it is certainly more than feasible for Darkseid to win" and "Darkseid can win, no doubt (no doubt!!!) but evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win,too" (not win, with Darkseid having no chance to win in the reverse, but win too) as "Wonder Woman can kick Darkseid's a$$, no problem" or something?

Why do so many users have to needlessly boil fights with context to them, that defy simplistic references to the outcome, into "character X "stomps" character B", when evidence demonstrably shows that isn't so?

SMH.

Tialockhart, the arguments for Diana do not "assume Darkseid is at his worst - as he is against Superman, It'd be like if everyone claimed Wonder Woman was Deathstroke level in speed, as he embarrassed her before". Your claiming that is actually, you, and people who think as you do falsely lowballing Supes and Diana to a lower level than their feats demonstrate they are on. Willfully ignoring that Superman has the speed, strength, durability, striking power, and BFR options to gain victories on Darkseid, and Wonder Woman has the speed, unbreakable defensive weapons to deflect his worst assaults, a lasso that can BFR and/or restrain him, and the God slaying offensive weapons to possibly gain victories over Darkseid as well doesn't change that said victories are possible. The endless "Nuh Uh!" claims don't refute what facts and feats say is true.

Chimeroid, for every scan you show of Darkseid reacting to Kal, I can show one of Superman beating the Apokolips Lord to the punch, and even blitzing him. All that will do is demonstrate that on any given day, one can out do the other, which is how their fights generally go. Diana's combat speed feats are on par, so all that shows is-"Darkseid can win, no doubt (no doubt!!!) but evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win, too").

Incidentally, the scans you showed of Darkseid waving his hands at Orion, Mr. Miracle, and Firestorm means nothing, since none of them utilize combat speed as often or as well as Superman or Diana. Darkseid "waving his hands" at either of those two before they got to him with any number of attacks is highly unlikely.

Darkseid is the one that has "no answer" for a cut anything, atoms splitting sword (that has sliced him before) and an unbreakable lasso that he cannot escape, and can BFR him to some random dimension, or command him to surrender.

Depending on how things go (because fights are often raucous, unpredictable things) either character could get the drop on the other...

...which makes the claim that Darkseid would "stomp" Diana patently untrue.

It still remains-Darkseid can win, no doubt (no doubt!!!)---but evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win, too").

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#414 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio
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#415 Edited by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@willienotwilliam said:
@supermanforever said:
@willienotwilliam said:
@supermanforever said:
@willienotwilliam said:
@supermanforever said:
@willienotwilliam said:

If superman can beat him so can Diana.

Superman beating Darkseid doesnt mean diana would too. Supermans punches faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Diana, which is needed to actually harm Darkseid and superman can fight against Darkseid because of his own durability and speed which gives him chance to keep the fight going. Diana is slower than superman, less durable than superman and punches weaker. So no really Superman first of all is not Darkseid level even though he beats him every now and then and certainly Diana can not beat him because Superman holds his own every now and then. This is merely a stomp for Darkseid.

no he doesn't punch harder than her. they are on the same level in all but durability

based on what?

the comics

what puinch has she done on superman level? Superman even in new 52 shook the world with his punches. Give me a single wonder woman punch at that level. couldnt even handle new 52 doomsday let alone superman level.

she's a highly skilled fighter with equal strength. i dont need to find feats for anything the logic is there

Skilled ok, "with equal strenght" Lmao are you high? you really need feats to prove that. Logic is feats not assumptions fanboy crap.

Wonder woman is leagues below darkseid in anything. Strenght, stamina, durability, versatility, intellect. WW is good fighter but with that logic batman beats someone like superman because he is better hand to hand in combat? Darkseid wipes the floor with wonder woman like floor cleaner.

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#416 Edited by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

You know what I would like to see at this point in time?

-Some of the Darkseid supporters putting forth an argument for why he wins this.

Like I could break down a quick analysis for them to attack:

  • Strength: About equal I'd say, only the New 52 Darkseid has been depicted as above and beyond the levels Superman and Diana otherwise exist on. Before that Darkseid tended to be depicted as being about as physically strong as Superman, but no more than that, same as Diana. Both however may be lacking in sheer feats because Diana doesn't get called in to tow the Moon and Darksied shuns manual labour.
  • Speed: Diana, hands down. She's been gifted with the speed of Hermes, she can keep up with the Flash in a footrace about as well as Superman. Darkseid however is rarely seen moving any faster than walking and when it comes to fighting he's always showed to make big powerful swings rather than raining strikes down on his opponent.
  • Reflexes: Diana, she is even faster than Superman in this aspect due to the fact she has it down to muscle memory. Meaning she can block without having to think about it. The best Darkseid has is smacking Superman out of the air.
  • Durability: Darkseid may have a better tank in terms of skin and bone density, but Diana is also hugely durable. Take this as an example, in the Superman/Batman story that reintroduced the proper Supergirl, an enraged Superman took Darkseid to the Sun and beat him stupid before kicking him into the Source Wall. During Sacrifice an actually murderous Superman took Diana to the same place thinking she was Doomsday, enroute she took a fullpower heatvision blast to her face and was punched so hard she flew at superluminal speeds (time was being kept and the whole fight lasted less than 5 minutes according to Max Lord) back to Earth before crashing into a field and she still got up.
  • Defenses: Diana. Darkseid has his suit and his skin and that's about it. Diana has the Aegis in her bracelets, which aside from being one of the few things that can block the Omega Beams, have also withstood a blast that was supposed to level Olympus.
  • Fighting skills: Diana is all in all one of, if not the most dangerous h2h combatant on Earth, with power and speed to rival Superman and combined with Amazon combat training that's made her proficient with just about every ancient weapon there is. Darkseid on the other hand has what training his status as Prince of Apokolips granted him... which doesn't normally seem to be very much as he tends to simply use his massive strength to over power his adversaries when he doesn't simply try to blast them.
  • Tricks and equipment: Diana has her Lasso, Darkseid has some degree of telepathy... Diana's Lasso is unbreakable unless you are somehow capable of rewriting reality and is an integrated part in how Diana fights. Darkseid's telepathy however only appears sporadically and rarely, if never, during a fight. Plus Diana has formiddable telepathic defenses through the blessing of Athena thats leaves her mostly untouchable unless very specific attacks are used... such as the Morticulum Bacteria that left Diana open to possession by one of the disembodied Female Furies.

Strenght = Darkseid by mile not even debatable.

Speed = Still Darkseid easly capable of resisting supermans speed and at one point even even countered bloodlusted superman speed blitz. So really saying wonder woman is faster is joke. darkseid is more than capable of fighting fast characters. Certainly if he can do it to superman who is faster than diana, i dont see why he cant do it to diana.

Reflexes = Still speed doesnt matter really.

Durability = Darkseid has miles better durability. "maybe is just a joke to say"

Defences = Darkseid doesnt need a defence specially against diana who him crushes like a nut.

Fighting skills means nothing as ww is in disadvantage on pretty much everything.

Tricks and equipment = Darkseid one shot with omega and curbstomp.

Results of battle Darkseid stomps and slaps her to pits of apocalyps

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#417 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Also, i will gladly concede when you offer counters to any of the following:

1. How does Diana handle phasing Omega Beams that would just go through her guard and smack her in the head?

2. How does Diana handle being pinned in place by Darkseid's TK

3. How does Diana actually put Darkseid down? Pre 52 she never had her Atom Splitting sword.

4. How does Diana handle the invisible Omega Particles?

On the other hand, i have offered feats to explain how Darkseid handles Diana's speed.

YOu are right. She is actually faster than Darkseid, however, definitely not enough of an advantage to even guarantee her 1/10 wins.

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#418 Posted by Dextersinister1 (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows:

Darkseid is the one that has "no answer" for a cut anything, atoms splitting sword (that has sliced him before)

Actually it hasn't. As I've pointed out many times before the sword is shown to have no real affect. You can see later in the same fight that his eyes are effectively unharmed.

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Mr Terrific used Mother boxes to create boom spheres, New god tech fused with his T-spheres to create spheres that ignore durability

Wonder Woman outright say's at the start of the Darkseid War that she has no chance of beating him. She say's that Grail his daughter is her superior and she needed help from the anti-monitor to beat him.

The New gods are also more powerful than the Olympian gods, in Final Crisis all those that weren't destroyed went into hiding and in Orions solo it describes

Superman beat Darkseid during the 2000-2004 Loeb force era and although writers play off the whole WW can stand up to Superman (a more extreme example is the idea that Batman would stand a chance without PIS) he will consistently save her from threats she cannot handle Wraith, Doomsday, Brainiac, etc. Not Mongul, Monguls a loser.

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#419 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: When Lobo hurts his hand punching Wonder Woman's face, or Wonder Woman KO's Superman with a single punch, then they're comparable in strength and durability.

The only things going for Wonder Woman are her speed and bracelets, but Darkseid isn't a slouch in speed having gone blow for blow with Simonson's Orion.

All he needs to do is land one touch and she is literally disintegrated like Kalibak was.

Nothing less will do?

Thats not really worth mentioning since Orion isn't a speedster. Plus if you want to bring him up then I could say Hippolyta knocked his big ass over as well.

With what? Does he have anti-matter hands or something?

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#420 Edited by Amendment50 (15154 posts) - - Show Bio
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(arguments here are dumb)

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#421 Edited by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

Strenght = Darkseid by mile not even debatable.

Speed = Still Darkseid easly capable of resisting supermans speed and at one point even even countered bloodlusted superman speed blitz. So really saying wonder woman is faster is joke. darkseid is more than capable of fighting fast characters. Certainly if he can do it to superman who is faster than diana, i dont see why he cant do it to diana.

Reflexes = Still speed doesnt matter really.

Durability = Darkseid has miles better durability. "maybe is just a joke to say"

Defences = Darkseid doesnt need a defence specially against diana who him crushes like a nut.

Fighting skills means nothing as ww is in disadvantage on pretty much everything.

Tricks and equipment = Darkseid one shot with omega and curbstomp.

Results of battle Darkseid stomps and slaps her to pits of apocalyps

Strength: Also your claim is unfounded.

Speed: Except the only category Superman is faster than Diana is in travel speed. Also you are pulling up a reaction feat, nothing more.

Reflexes: From above: yes and Diana has countered the Flash on several occasions, who is faster. And even Zoom who is faster still.

Durability: Is he now? Then I suppose you can prove it.

Defenses: Cool, so he wont mind her practicing her decapitation techniques on him?

Fighting skill: Really? So why is it Batman is so dangerous?

Tricks: And Diana will block it as she has done every other time it's been used against her.

Your argumentation is a bucks of loose stoolwater, try harder... maybe bring in evidence?

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#423 Edited by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

Strenght = Darkseid by mile not even debatable.

Speed = Still Darkseid easly capable of resisting supermans speed and at one point even even countered bloodlusted superman speed blitz. So really saying wonder woman is faster is joke. darkseid is more than capable of fighting fast characters. Certainly if he can do it to superman who is faster than diana, i dont see why he cant do it to diana.

Reflexes = Still speed doesnt matter really.

Durability = Darkseid has miles better durability. "maybe is just a joke to say"

Defences = Darkseid doesnt need a defence specially against diana who him crushes like a nut.

Fighting skills means nothing as ww is in disadvantage on pretty much everything.

Tricks and equipment = Darkseid one shot with omega and curbstomp.

Results of battle Darkseid stomps and slaps her to pits of apocalyps

Strength: Also your claim is unfounded.

Speed: Except the only category Superman is faster than Diana is in travel speed. Also you are pulling up a reaction feat, nothing more.

Reflexes: From above: yes and Diana has countered the Flash on several occasions, who is faster. And even Zoom who is faster still.

Durability: Is he now? Then I suppose you can prove it.

Defenses: Cool, so he wont mind her practicing her decapitation techniques on him?

Fighting skill: Really? So why is it Batman is so dangerous?

Tricks: And Diana will block it as she has done every other time it's been used against her.

Your argumentation is a bucks of loose stoolwater, try harder... maybe bring in evidence?

then bring some speed feats of diana. im very curious of seeing anything that puts him on darkseids strenght levels.

And batman is nothing but ant to superman if we dont go by exposing weakness or pis.

Also just for comparison Wonder woman was never near superman speed, strenght or durability level and yet Darkseid beats him but ok keep believing ww is stronger.

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#424 Edited by phoenixdiamond616 (1645 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman has some good chances, believe it or not.

She has defeated powerhouses and gods such as Big Barda, The Female Fatales, Power Girl, Supergirl, Superman and Ares, characters that can totally put a hell of a fight to Darkseid.

Darkseid is waay stronger, faster, more durable, and has energy powers, but Diana has tacticals and she is not a joke. She can even fight blindfolded!!! Her reflexes are above Darkseid's for sure, and her Bracers and shield deflect his Omega Beams.

Wonder Woman is The Greatest warrior among the Amazons, and she is maybe The Greatest warrior in the World! Even in the Universe!!!, and even if her Unarmed Combat skills are not enough (She can totally make Darkseid bleed, and even send him flying all around the world with punches, but he resists way longer), she has her Armed Combat skills, which are as spectacular as her Unarmed combat skills, or even better!, she can use a combination of grapping Darkseid with her Lasso and attacking him with her Shield and Tiara, then some good Unarmed tricks and at the "end" of the fight, stab him with her Sword.

Wonder Woman is The Fiercest Warrior in DC, and for sure that character that learns from her mistakes, that character that can put a hell of a fight to everybody. She's all that because she Never Gives Up, and she won't do it in fights like this...

No Caption Provided

PD: This is if Darkseid is in a calmed mod. If he was Full Charged, he can totally smash her (Full Charged Darkseid can barely be defeated by the hole JL)

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#425 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I will just copy my previous lazy post

the thing is there are a couple of abilities darkseid has that diana has no real reply to. I am on a train and on my phone so i am making "lazy" posts and shortening the phrasing. for examples:

Telekinesis - darkseid has incapped the entire LoSH on one and Orion, miracle and firestorm on another occasion .

darkseid can also use omega effect without beams by saturating the air with invisible particles which he can activate at will like he did against forever people.

His omega beams can also go through solid matter and hit only the designated target.

Plus- diana doesnt have superman's plot shield.

Also, i have noticed you asked a question:

With what? Does he have anti-matter hands or something?

Not anti-matter, but he has disintegrated on touch, without any blasts or anything. SImply, disintegrated on touch.

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#426 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I will just copy my previous lazy post

the thing is there are a couple of abilities darkseid has that diana has no real reply to. I am on a train and on my phone so i am making "lazy" posts and shortening the phrasing. for examples:

Telekinesis - darkseid has incapped the entire LoSH on one and Orion, miracle and firestorm on another occasion .

darkseid can also use omega effect without beams by saturating the air with invisible particles which he can activate at will like he did against forever people.

His omega beams can also go through solid matter and hit only the designated target.

Plus- diana doesnt have superman's plot shield.

Also, i have noticed you asked a question:

With what? Does he have anti-matter hands or something?

Not anti-matter, but he has disintegrated on touch, without any blasts or anything. SImply, disintegrated on touch.

Telekinesis: Diana is practically immune to hostile telepathy through the blessings of Athena (as I have mentioned).

Fancy Omega Beam tricks... I am arguing from the idea that they are not going to pull out 'once in a lifetime' abilities. Plus I would argue that since Diana's abilities are largely from a group of Gods, I wouldn't believe Darkseid could just make them pass through her defenses anyways.

No she has an actual shield instead.

Funny how he never uses this when it would otherwise be incredibly useful... like against Superman.

then bring some speed feats of diana. im very curious of seeing anything that puts him on darkseids strenght levels.

And batman is nothing but ant to superman if we dont go by exposing weakness or pis.

Also just for comparison Wonder woman was never near superman speed, strenght or durability level and yet Darkseid beats him but ok keep believing ww is stronger.

Speed:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Strength:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Ok, so how-about common sense then? People who know what they are doing in a fight are more dangerous and able to compensate and exploit any shortcomings they or their opponent has... why else do you think Batman has not been demolished by Bane or Killer Croc yet?

Since I have now provided a bunch of scans, you can do us all a favor of posting yours.

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#427 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Telekinesis. Not telepathy mate. The Athena Blessing doesn't protect from TK to my knowledge.

THe rest of your post is just praying that Darkseid forgets his abilities, and he usually only does that when writers match him up with Superman. And, if you read through his older comics, you would see that it is out of characte behaviour i his fights against clark

From most of your reply, i can see that you are only praying for darkseid to job, and that you would like us to use his low showings hwile using DIana's high showings. What happens if i start pulling out DIana's low showings?

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#428 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister1 a single swipe of the sword of course isn't enough to put someone of Darkseid great durability away. Evidence indicates that if she used her speed to strike him multiple times, and used her super human stamina to use it on him repeatedly, not giving his hide or the Mother Box a nanosecond's rest, the story would be much different (she could lasso him and command him to stand stock still while she sliced him to cat meat, another possibility) And you are certainly entitled to your personal opinion that Superman beating Darksied, or Wonder Woman hanging with The Man Of Steel is only because of some kind of favorable writing---but a close look at Kal and Diana's feats, Superman hanging with Darkseid past that writer's tenure, and Diana hanging with Supes up into and during the N52 era, defies your belief.

@chimeroid: (A) The "Rebirth" story arcs have merged the Post Crisis and N52 history and feats together, and (B) Diana did have the sword in the latter portion of Post Crisis, regardless

Once again, Diana has reflexes so fast she can lasso Zoom while sightless, out react an Amazo who had a super computer brain backed up with Superman and Wonder Woman's combined speed, and block every single piece of The Shattered God's trillion particle attack coming at her at unfathomable speeds from all over the universe at a 360 degree radius. So, contrary to what appears to be what you're thinking-that she will just stare as the beams start to phase through, proclaim "Ooooh, look at the pretty lights", and just let them hit her-the moment Diana sees that start to happen, she is fast enough to immediately activate her force field, or super speed away from the particular spot towards Darkseid and let the beams hit him, or lasso him as she is dodging the beams and command him to stop (not to mention, throughout her incarnations, she has blocked his beams without the "phasing" occurring, so it is just as likely Darkseid's beams won't activate in that manner, regardless).

Diana has easily resisted Black Holes (in one instance, resisting one as she was also pulling The Martian Manhunter out of it) partially lifted the unquantifiable weight of The Spectre, and pushed back against the entire Olympian pantheon of power So I suspect she will be able to resist Darkseid's formidable, but compared to the aforementioned traumas, certainly not more overwhelming TK.

Dealt with the "Diana 'didn't ' have The Atom Splitting Sword in Post Crisis" above

Diana's "Eye Of Athena' will allow her to see the Omega Particles and deal with them accordingly

On the contrary, her superior combat speed-thank you for acknowledging this-and her unparalleled skill in using it-allowing her to deal with opponents that rival and surpass her raw speed like Jesse Quick, Power Girl, Supergirl, Captain Marvel, Superman, The God Hermes, and even lasso Zoom while sightless-will absolutely allow her to defeat Darkseid a lot more than the ratio of"1/10".

Darkseid absolutely could win, no doubt (no doubt!!!) but evidence indicates Wonder Woman can win, too.

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#429 Posted by FirstHunter (3460 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows:

partially lifted the unquantifiable weight of The Spectre

Exactly. Partially lifted an quantifiable amount therefore not a quantifiable feat.

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#430 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Rebirth still didnt bring all the canons together. Diana and Arthur are prime examples of that. As we can see Arthur has no water hand, he cannot use TP in combat against non aquatics, and diana is not made out of clay, but is a goddess. Those are not the only differences, but you get the point.

I know she had a sword in late post crisis, but i dont remember that sword being impressive enough to put down darkseid. Not to mention that, if we were to take both Pre and New 52 into account, then Darkseid would actually hold even more of an advantage, as New 52 Darkseid is physically a lot more impressive than before. N

And better yet, he even fought Diana and she was not alone, she had the entire league behind her, and they were not capable of putting him down, they had to resort to BFR...If we were to include the New 52 Diana would just lose that 1 out of 10 win i gave her earlier.

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#431 Posted by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: lol... i said feats mo abc logic. Restrains powergirl> strenght feat and hit frequency that damages supermans ears > strenght feat

Darkseid beats superman> he is weak.

And i cant even believe you posted down the spectre slowdown as an actual feats

Im done here.

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#432 Posted by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows:

partially lifted the unquantifiable weight of The Spectre

Exactly. Partially lifted an quantifiable amount therefore not a quantifiable feat.

tell that to a guy with eisenburgs photo who posted as strenght feat against Darkseid

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#433 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Telekinesis. Not telepathy mate. The Athena Blessing doesn't protect from TK to my knowledge.

THe rest of your post is just praying that Darkseid forgets his abilities, and he usually only does that when writers match him up with Superman. And, if you read through his older comics, you would see that it is out of characte behaviour i his fights against clark

From most of your reply, i can see that you are only praying for darkseid to job, and that you would like us to use his low showings hwile using DIana's high showings. What happens if i start pulling out DIana's low showings?

Fair enough, though it's even more obscure than the telepathy.

No I am just going by how Darkseid normally fights and behaves. If he remembered half of these gimmicks you've brought up, then he should never be loosing to Superman or anyone else for that matter. Also how they were once is now how they are now, which is the default setting you are usually going with in these fights.

You'd get ridiculed while still relying on obscure feats and abilities he hasn't used or pulled off in decades. Likewise I could say Diana just throws her tiara at him and takes his head off like she did Phobos, but that too is an obscure move for her, so I dont expect it will happen. But you could make a case for Darkseid if you posted some of these high-end feats.

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#434 Edited by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: lol... i said feats mo abc logic. Restrains powergirl> strenght feat and hit frequency that damages supermans ears > strenght feat

Darkseid beats superman> he is weak.

And i cant even believe you posted down the spectre slowdown as an actual feats

Im done here.

Since you haven't posted any feats yet, I am still making a better case than you. Since all you have right now is a load of posturing and hot air.

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#435 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: As of this second, not every single incident has been combined between the two universes, but enough has for it not to really matter.

I already discussed the sword.

Many villains have team busted, yet also fell to a single hero on numerous occasions (in DC, Marvel, Image, and beyond).

A woman who has the combat speed and skill feats I displayed (including lassoing freakin' Zoom while sightless) backed up with a battle ending weapon like an unbreakable, BFR inducing, will commandeering magic lasso is not going to fall 1/10.

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#436 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Now this is what infuriates me, you know of Darkseid obviously only from his fights with SUperman, and as i said, those are the fights that are out of character for him. Darkseid is actually not a big brute who believes in honor and fighting 1 on 1. Darkseid is a super genius traitorous asshole. And yes, he actually used his "gimmicks" quite a bit. He loses to Superman for 1 reason alone - He is fighting Superman and thus, he had to forget all of his abilities. As i said, if you want to lowball i can bring up the fight where Wonder Woman barely took down Deathstroke, or when Batman knocked her over. There are low showings for everyone.

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#437 Posted by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever said:

@outside_85: lol... i said feats mo abc logic. Restrains powergirl> strenght feat and hit frequency that damages supermans ears > strenght feat

Darkseid beats superman> he is weak.

And i cant even believe you posted down the spectre slowdown as an actual feats

Im done here.

Since you haven't posted any feats yet, I am still making a better case than you. Since all you have right now is a load of posturing and hot air.

jaja because lifting spectre is legit feat to begin with and beats powergirl so she is now Darkseid level lol. 80 percent of those scans are out of context and debunakable feats. So what is the point of even posting them? i said legit feats and not strenght feats like pulling planet alongside manhunter and superman with lasso spell.

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#438 Posted by FirstHunter (3460 posts) - - Show Bio
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#439 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Now this is what infuriates me, you know of Darkseid obviously only from his fights with SUperman, and as i said, those are the fights that are out of character for him. Darkseid is actually not a big brute who believes in honor and fighting 1 on 1. Darkseid is a super genius traitorous asshole. And yes, he actually used his "gimmicks" quite a bit. He loses to Superman for 1 reason alone - He is fighting Superman and thus, he had to forget all of his abilities.

As i said, if you want to lowball i can bring up the fight where Wonder Woman barely took down Deathstroke, or when Batman knocked her over. There are low showings for everyone.

You can keep saying that for as long as you like and it wont matter because it's the same damn thing if he is fighting Orion, the Source, Turtle Boy or whatever... you are relying on ancient comics thats not used by contemporary writers.

And yet Darkseid is consistently loosing to someone who has less ways of taking him down than Diana does. There is a point where it stops becoming the antics of a bad writer and starts becoming factual reality,

And hey, if you want to pull out a superoptimized Darkseid then I can pull a superoptimized Wonder Woman out as well that moves so fast he can't see or react to her before she's punched right through him.

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#440 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

jaja because lifting spectre is legit feat to begin with and beats powergirl so she is now Darkseid level lol. 80 percent of those scans are out of context and debunakable feats. So what is the point of even posting them? i said legit feats and not strenght feats like pulling planet alongside manhunter and superman with lasso spell.

Are you going to post some actual feats, or does Darkseid not have any?

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#441 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Superoptimized? I believe you are already doing that. You are hardcore lowballing Darkseid, insisting on his low showings, while, at the same time, only using high showings for Diana. The same Diana who had immense difficulty against Deathstroke. The same Diana who on another occasion attacked Deathstroke and didn't even notice when he stole her lasso. I can lowball too, but that is not how this is supposed to happen. You are using just a few very selected low showings for Darkseid and deciding to ignore all the others because "they are dated", which is not true, as his TK feats are actually quite new (for Pre Flashpoint that is, and this thread was made before N52). And, if you want to bring up his fights with orion, almost every single one of those fights was a part of a seriously overcomplicated plot Darkseid had, and he manipulated Orion almost every time. It was exactly as i was saying, very unlike what he did with Superman, when he promised him a fair fight.

Btw, Diana doesn't really blitz her opponents and Darkseid has reacted to similarly fast characters.

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#442 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Superoptimized? I believe you are already doing that. You are hardcore lowballing Darkseid, insisting on his low showings, while, at the same time, only using high showings for Diana. The same Diana who had immense difficulty against Deathstroke. The same Diana who on another occasion attacked Deathstroke and didn't even notice when he stole her lasso. I can lowball too, but that is not how this is supposed to happen. You are using just a few very selected low showings for Darkseid and deciding to ignore all the others because "they are dated", which is not true, as his TK feats are actually quite new (for Pre Flashpoint that is, and this thread was made before N52). And, if you want to bring up his fights with orion, almost every single one of those fights was a part of a seriously overcomplicated plot Darkseid had, and he manipulated Orion almost every time. It was exactly as i was saying, very unlike what he did with Superman, when he promised him a fair fight.

Btw, Diana doesn't really blitz her opponents and Darkseid has reacted to similarly fast characters.

And Darkseid got knocked over by a couple of thugs in an alley when he is not falling down a flight of stairs. And sure there was a Deathstroke issue where Diana had some problems with Deathstroke, she still defeated him in the end... and when she's been depowered, she still takes on groups of thugs with her bare hands and wins, not get her pockets emptied <- That is lowballing.

What I have been doing otherwise is use a standard depiction of Darkseid and Wonder Woman that's been largely consistent for a great many years. What you are doing is finding specialized versions that just happen to appear more powerful that one time and then never seen again.

So if Darkseid has such good consistent feats to his name, you should have no trouble finding them and posting them here. I'll just say it so you know it: I really don't care about these lengthy statements about abilities that either cannot or will not be backed up with scans.
And secondly I have absolutely zero tolerance for this endless lowballing some comic readers do to Wonder Woman, she has been depicted and maintained as a physical equal to Superman ever since she first appeared, that some readers are incapable of accepting that is something they need corrected, because her supposed inferiority to Superman is only in their heads.

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#443 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Inever believed Wonder Woman is truly below Supes, i mean she is not quite up there as she had to be very cunning that one time they seriously fought in an unchanged canon, and she was still losing, but she definitely operates on the same level as Superman. But, the thing is, Superman shouldn't really be on Darkseid's level at all. I have the scans, and i will post them when i am back at my trusted computer. Just, to be clear, how many scans will you accept as the minimum for me to prove my point?

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#444 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Inever believed Wonder Woman is truly below Supes, i mean she is not quite up there as she had to be very cunning that one time they seriously fought in an unchanged canon, and she was still losing, but she definitely operates on the same level as Superman. But, the thing is, Superman shouldn't really be on Darkseid's level at all. I have the scans, and i will post them when i am back at my trusted computer. Just, to be clear, how many scans will you accept as the minimum for me to prove my point?

Bold: See, that's just what you think, that's not whats actually real. Like I don't think any of the New Gods should be anywhere near that of the Olympians either, but somehow they are even if DC has never bothered to explain why or how.

How many do you think you need to convince me? But I am going to weed out scans from alternate timelines and universes, so you can skip those.

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#445 Edited by Supermanforever (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

jaja because lifting spectre is legit feat to begin with and beats powergirl so she is now Darkseid level lol. 80 percent of those scans are out of context and debunakable feats. So what is the point of even posting them? i said legit feats and not strenght feats like pulling planet alongside manhunter and superman with lasso spell.

Are you going to post some actual feats, or does Darkseid not have any?

Ok if you want it lets do it. Starting of with debunking those overrated scans.

@outside_85 said:
@chimeroid said:

@outside_85: I will just copy my previous lazy post

the thing is there are a couple of abilities darkseid has that diana has no real reply to. I am on a train and on my phone so i am making "lazy" posts and shortening the phrasing. for examples:

Telekinesis - darkseid has incapped the entire LoSH on one and Orion, miracle and firestorm on another occasion .

darkseid can also use omega effect without beams by saturating the air with invisible particles which he can activate at will like he did against forever people.

His omega beams can also go through solid matter and hit only the designated target.

Plus- diana doesnt have superman's plot shield.

Also, i have noticed you asked a question:

With what? Does he have anti-matter hands or something?

Not anti-matter, but he has disintegrated on touch, without any blasts or anything. SImply, disintegrated on touch.

Telekinesis: Diana is practically immune to hostile telepathy through the blessings of Athena (as I have mentioned).

Fancy Omega Beam tricks... I am arguing from the idea that they are not going to pull out 'once in a lifetime' abilities. Plus I would argue that since Diana's abilities are largely from a group of Gods, I wouldn't believe Darkseid could just make them pass through her defenses anyways.

No she has an actual shield instead.

Funny how he never uses this when it would otherwise be incredibly useful... like against Superman.

then bring some speed feats of diana. im very curious of seeing anything that puts him on darkseids strenght levels.

And batman is nothing but ant to superman if we dont go by exposing weakness or pis.

Also just for comparison Wonder woman was never near superman speed, strenght or durability level and yet Darkseid beats him but ok keep believing ww is stronger.

Speed:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Strength:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Ok, so how-about common sense then? People who know what they are doing in a fight are more dangerous and able to compensate and exploit any shortcomings they or their opponent has... why else do you think Batman has not been demolished by Bane or Killer Croc yet?

Since I have now provided a bunch of scans, you can do us all a favor of posting yours.

Starting with speed.

1. What is wonder woman doing there? Any reference of her keeping up with jesse or she just hangin on there with her lasso? No reference how she moves and what speed feet it is mach x i guess?

2. First of all thats a travel speed and not combat speed feet. Not to mention there is no indiaction on how fast they are moving. By looks of it supersonic or what is that please explain or yiou just put another assumption?

3. yet again, explain how fast are they moving there? is that mach 1 or lightspeed?

4. Scan saying "thats the benefit of having hermes on your side" i guess thats a speed feat?

5. sticks out hand and flash runs into her? Thats not keeping up with flash and there is no reference on how flash is moving there and how fast.

6. uses lasso and cant keep up with flash

Conclusion we dont even know what she has as top speed besides assuming she is at some speed.

Strenght

1. lol what strenght feat is that even show?

2. uses her bracellets to hit with specific frequency of sound that superman is weak to and gets damages him a bit. Thats clearly a strenght feat lol

3. Ok this is strenght feat with breaking a construct of green lantern. But which lantern is that? There are lanterns like you know kyle or hal who have planetary level feats then there are complete fodder lanterns? So which one is that. In comparison here darkseid wiping the floor with qrrigat another lanter with utter ease, not to mention the others in his team that got wiped on apocalypse.

No Caption Provided

4. Fight powergirl and restrains her? So what does that prove Darkseid fought Superman many times and beaten him made him bleed multiple times and even casually held his own against hunter prey doomsday. Who by the way defeated justice league minus Superman that included wonder woman.

6. Lifting spectre is lojng debunked feats. So it doesnt even need to be adressed. besides lifted alongside Superman who has far better lifting feats than Diana. Can you prove how musch spectre weights? and how much was wonder woman lifting considering superman was taking part aswell?

7. So pulls the planet with help of lasso under spell alongside to heavyweights of lifting like martian manhunter and superman? Bet she didnt even need to be there. Considering Superman literaly has pushed planet on his own here is him saying that to Jonathan kent. Clark says that he pushed a planet out of orbit on his own. Which is pretty good thing to suggest he could have been pulling it with another heaviweight like manhunter? So have you another decent feat that shows anything?

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Literaly all of those feats are assumption and no proof of wonder woman having any decent performance.

Im not gonna post everything from Darkseid just couple stuff.

Speed

Darkseid showing nano/micro second reaction speed and no bullshit assumptions like your scans.

No Caption Provided
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Sternght

Holds his own against doomsday who one shotted Master mayhem his general and equal to steppenwolf. On later encounter second time darkseid lost but he was also caught of guard when he thought he killed doomsday and that was hunter prey doomsday. Lets not forget in the same issue when Darkseid left the planet and Doomsday started to killing spree, green lantern of that sector tried to kill him, lost the battle and his ring fell to doomsday hands. he used the ring and flew to OA and given ton of troubles to even guardians themselves and killed thousands of lanterns in the process.

No Caption Provided
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One shots orion, firestorm and mr miracle with small blast.

No Caption Provided

Blocks supermans speedblitz and punches hima away like a fly. Btw Superman has blitzed wonder woman in maxwell lord story.

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Beats jean eclipso.

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Dont see neccessity of posting multiple scans of him fighting Superman. More than capable of harming superman which he did many times.

Should we go on durability side aswell? and show how Darkseid tanked his omega beams, full assault of legion of superheros and superman at the same time and survives?

Tanked heat vision of Superman with 0 effect and Heat vision has injured Wonder woman with ease in Maxwell lord story.

I didnt even include Omega effect because i know many people are bragging here about blocking omega effect with her bracellets which didnt happen anytime but in new 52 only.

Her sword was useless as well when Superman blitzes and broke its into pieces.

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#446 Posted by Chimeroid (9234 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Interesting, New Gods are depicted as existing on a higher plane than Olympians, might i bother you enough to ask you why you believe they should be below them? I mean, Darkseid did imprison the entire Pantheon once and he only sent Granny Goodness to do the bidding. Also, he tricked them easily in Wonder Woman 132 (we see the story) http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW52Ml8xMzItMDUuanBn/?ref=

But, let's start with Darkseid's "gimmicks" as you like to call them.

Floating Head of Doom:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTA5LmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTEwLmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTE2LmpwZw==/?ref=

TK - Stasis

Firestorm 35 - http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2ODUzMzI4NQ==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWR2ZW50dXJlc09mU3VwZXJtYW40OTVwMTcuanBn/?ref=

http://imgur.com/aSdvEbT - The entire LOSH

Creating Monsters:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRm9mRi0wNzYtMDQuanBn/?ref= - Created Brimstone, powerful enough to fight the League.

He has also created Stayne, but that always felt like it was too loaded with context.

Incinerating Touch

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovbmV3X2dvZHMyXzAxMl8yM19yb3VnaGVyLmpwZw==/?ref= - See, a touch is all it takes

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTWlzdGVyX01pcmFjbGVfU3BlY2lhbHYxXzAwMUltYmllMjEuanBn/?ref=

Growing:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovQ291bnRkb3duMnAwNC5qcGc=/?ref= - Bigger than skyscrappers

Storm Manipulation

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTXJNaXJhY2xlQXZhbG9uMTgtMTkuanBn/?ref=

Cunning:

This one here is simply to speak about how it is completely out of character for him to do the "honorable" thing and fight Supes 1v1 like in Apokalypse now

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRmlyc3Rpc3N1ZXNwZWNpYWxfMTNfcDExLmpwZw==/?ref= - Made a bomb that would destroy the sun if his heart ever stopped.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovMTk4OTAyTmV3R29kczAwMXAxNC5qcGc=/?ref= -Made a life force sucking machine that could drain even the likes of Lightray in mere moments

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTmV3R29kc3YzXzA3LTE0LmpwZw==/?ref= - here he reveals that he let Orion kill him to gain control over the Source in the long run. Explaining why he went to h2h battle.

Now this one you should like. Darkseid used a single Pacifier to take out Wonder Woman

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW4xMDEtMjAuanBn/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW4xMDItMjEuanBn/?ref= - Also, every time he has a backup plan, and the plan is always very cunning.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovR2VuZXNpczRwZzE2LmpwZw==/?ref= - Tricking Ares

Omega wall

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovc21hc2gwc3QuanBn/?ref=

Bouncing Beams

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovamtmdy0wNS0xMS5qcGc=/?ref= - This proves that his beams can go on even if they hit something, that he keeps the control over them, it serves as a proof that WW redirecting his beams with bracelets is pure PIS.

BFR and Transmutation to stone ( i have tens of scans of Darkseid BFRing with his beams)

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovWUotMDU1LTIyLTEuanBn/?ref=

BFR With invisible beams - http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRm9yZXZlclBlb3BsZTAwOC0yNS5qcGc=/?ref=

Conquered Olympus

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDEwLmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDExLmpwZw==/?ref=

Also, created a construct that smacked Wonder Woman

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDE0LmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDE1LmpwZw==/?ref=

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#447 Posted by Tedirey (2558 posts) - - Show Bio

Teddy Ray  GIF

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#448 Posted by Tedirey (2558 posts) - - Show Bio

Teddy Ray  GIF

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#449 Posted by Tedirey (2558 posts) - - Show Bio

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#450 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: 1) Interesting, New Gods are depicted as existing on a higher plane than Olympians, might i bother you enough to ask you why you believe they should be below them? I mean, Darkseid did imprison the entire Pantheon once and he only sent Granny Goodness to do the bidding. Also, he tricked them easily in Wonder Woman 132 (we see the story) http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW52Ml8xMzItMDUuanBn/?ref=

But, let's start with Darkseid's "gimmicks" as you like to call them.

Floating Head of Doom:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTA5LmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTEwLmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQW5hcmt5LW1pbmkyLTE2LmpwZw==/?ref=

TK - Stasis

Firestorm 35 - http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2ODUzMzI4NQ==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWR2ZW50dXJlc09mU3VwZXJtYW40OTVwMTcuanBn/?ref=

http://imgur.com/aSdvEbT - The entire LOSH

Creating Monsters:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRm9mRi0wNzYtMDQuanBn/?ref= - Created Brimstone, powerful enough to fight the League.

He has also created Stayne, but that always felt like it was too loaded with context.

Incinerating Touch

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovbmV3X2dvZHMyXzAxMl8yM19yb3VnaGVyLmpwZw==/?ref= - See, a touch is all it takes

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTWlzdGVyX01pcmFjbGVfU3BlY2lhbHYxXzAwMUltYmllMjEuanBn/?ref=

Growing:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovQ291bnRkb3duMnAwNC5qcGc=/?ref= - Bigger than skyscrappers

Storm Manipulation

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTXJNaXJhY2xlQXZhbG9uMTgtMTkuanBn/?ref=

Cunning:

This one here is simply to speak about how it is completely out of character for him to do the "honorable" thing and fight Supes 1v1 like in Apokalypse now

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRmlyc3Rpc3N1ZXNwZWNpYWxfMTNfcDExLmpwZw==/?ref= - Made a bomb that would destroy the sun if his heart ever stopped.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovMTk4OTAyTmV3R29kczAwMXAxNC5qcGc=/?ref= -Made a life force sucking machine that could drain even the likes of Lightray in mere moments

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovTmV3R29kc3YzXzA3LTE0LmpwZw==/?ref= - here he reveals that he let Orion kill him to gain control over the Source in the long run. Explaining why he went to h2h battle.

Now this one you should like. Darkseid used a single Pacifier to take out Wonder Woman

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW4xMDEtMjAuanBn/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovV29uZGVyV29tYW4xMDItMjEuanBn/?ref= - Also, every time he has a backup plan, and the plan is always very cunning.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovR2VuZXNpczRwZzE2LmpwZw==/?ref= - Tricking Ares

Omega wall

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/darkseidres2/media/cGF0aDovc21hc2gwc3QuanBn/?ref=

Bouncing Beams

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovamtmdy0wNS0xMS5qcGc=/?ref= - This proves that his beams can go on even if they hit something, that he keeps the control over them, it serves as a proof that WW redirecting his beams with bracelets is pure PIS.

BFR and Transmutation to stone ( i have tens of scans of Darkseid BFRing with his beams)

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovWUotMDU1LTIyLTEuanBn/?ref=

BFR With invisible beams - http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovRm9yZXZlclBlb3BsZTAwOC0yNS5qcGc=/?ref=

Conquered Olympus

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDEwLmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDExLmpwZw==/?ref=

Also, created a construct that smacked Wonder Woman

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDE0LmpwZw==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/DarkseidRes/media/cGF0aDovQWN0aW9uQ29taWNzNjAwcDE1LmpwZw==/?ref=

1) Several reasons. First of all is the basic setup of Kirby's New Gods, see I know Kirby prior to beginning his work for DC got hooked on an idea from a book called Chariot of the Gods, wherein the there was a prevailing theory that the beings we humans call gods were actually extraterrestrials and all their powers were just highly advanced technology. This idea is what he built the New Gods on when he came to DC, originally the New Gods were supposed to have been entirely seperate from the rest of the DCU, so Jacks idea could do no harm to characters like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel who maintained the classic idea of what a god was.

But that seperation was nixed pretty early on, as we know Darkseid first appeared in a Jimmy Olsen book, but Jack had carried on regardless with his idea. Meaning Kalibak would at one time venture into some caves on Apokolips and find Thor's belt of strength (though I am not sure if it was Simonson who wrote this). This is an example of where the clash is, the New Gods were supposed to have replaced the gods we know of ages ago during their Third World and all of them had actually died or degenerated. All of which flies in the face of the Olympians remaining right where they always were in Wonder Womans world.

So why should the Olympians be more powerful? As noted above, they should have been in New God terminology be members of the Old Gods, beings even more powerful than the New Gods but who had ultimately destroyed themselves through the civil war that created New Genesis and Apokolips. But on their own grounds, the New Gods is a race of thousands of beings who only have a tiny amount who stand above the rest. Like Darkseid stands as a god above the Lowlies even if they are of the same species. The Olympians on the other hand number in total less than 50 beings, most of which embody something significant to the human perception of the world.
Thing is that Kirby's idea works if it's all encompassing, as in everyone is on the same page. But as DC tried to have it's cake and eat it, it's ended up in this middleground where Wonder Woman's Olympians (and most other terrestrial gods) are still treated as such, and the New Gods mostly come off looking as pretenders of godhood... and Darkseid himself often ends up looking more like a space-tyrant like Mongul than he does a god.

And thats kinda my point, for a being who makes many claims of Godhood, he doesn't seem very godlike.

Anyways for your scans:

Floating head: Eh... the 2nd link doesn't work, so I dont know if I am missing something here, but considering how advanced New God technology is, I am assuming its just a hologram.

TK: Well the first one knocks them over when they are all unprepared for his appearance, the second one is done via technology (the projectors are over Superman and the Infinity Man), and the last one is a) using a Darkseid 1000 years down the line... and b) there is two of them.

Monster creation: pardon, by that scan doesnt show Brimstone being created through Darkseid's personal power or if he is a product of Apokoliptian technlogy. Plus if you wanted to be really impressive... or really annoying to some, you could have brought up the dumb idea that Darkseid created Eclipso. That said however, creating powerful monsters doesnt normally say anything about the power of the creator, like Felix Faust can also create monsters more powerful than himself to fight the League on his behalf.
I think we have to keep in mind that Darksied is first and foremost a tyrant, with a simply colossal industrial nightmare at his beck and call and it's actually rare we see him actually make stuff with his own hands. And he's the kind who's slogan might as well be 'all is one in Darkseid' so everything he does or uses is automatically attributed to him... even if say, Desaad is the real maker of a trinket.

Cunning: I am not quite sure what you aim to prove with any of these to be honest? That Darkseid is a master strategist? Thats fine, but it doesn't bear a whole lot of meaning in a 1 on 1 fight like this unless you want to argue he'd use preptime to aim a cannon at something Diana cares about?

Omega Wall: Even though I can see the idea behind it, we only really have Orion's speculation that it is him... and Orion has a tendency to find Darkseid wherever he finds any kind of opposition whenever he gets good and angry.

Bouncing Beams: I should point out that the beams in your scan passes through alot of people, they are not bouncing off anything. To counter it I could just point out that Darkseid has tried to fire a full intensity blast at Doomsday and it did nothing to it. And likewise he fired a shot at Superman he claimed was meant to kill him, only for Diana to reflect it right back at him. And I don't know if I should say it's simply consistent that the beams do stop if they strike something sufficiently durable to take whatever amount of power Darkseid has poured into the shot.

Transmutation: If you wouldn't mind using another... I have serious issues with using stuff from Young Justice as evidence.

Invisible beams: eh looks more like something was triggered in a bunch of people who were already ghosts?

Conquered Olympus: While I don't deny he has done this, more than once actually. I have serious issues with it because we never see how he does this, because every time it's happened, it's happened off page and Diana has normally just arrived and found everyone gone. You dont know if he lead a million Parademons to the gates, you dont know if the Female Furies snuck in and kidnapped everyone or if he sent a picture of his hairy bum and everyone fell over. But as I said, he's obviously done it... we just don't know how.

Construct: Ehh... it seemed more like 'Diana' was the construct due to her sudden change in behavior, even more so due to the earlier pic you posted from earlier on that mentions Superman having arrived.

As for cunning, just something on how Wonder Woman handles Darkseid:

Wait till he is desperate enough
Wait till he is desperate enough

Let him know of his mistake when he's full of himself again.
Let him know of his mistake when he's full of himself again.
Rub it in when he starts to feel it.
Rub it in when he starts to feel it.