Wonder Woman VS Darkseid

@pander1 said:

@King Saturn: Yeah... Ares is a God too.  A real God. THE God of War. Not just a strong alien who calls himself a God.    Ares is actually supposed to be, in the DC Universe, the greatest fighter in the Universe (level 16).  And Wonder Woman has beaten him in combat as well.  Darkseid could win, but don't count on it.  Wonder Woman makes a habit of defeating stronger opponents with her superior training and techniques  

No. No. No and no. Ares is not the greatest fighter in the Universe. Darkseid wins this. He's stronger, more versatile, etc. Has telepathy too.

@comicdude23 said:

@pander1 said:

@King Saturn: Yeah... Ares is a God too.  A real God. THE God of War. Not just a strong alien who calls himself a God.    Ares is actually supposed to be, in the DC Universe, the greatest fighter in the Universe (level 16).  And Wonder Woman has beaten him in combat as well.  Darkseid could win, but don't count on it.  Wonder Woman makes a habit of defeating stronger opponents with her superior training and techniques  

No. No. No and no. Ares is not the greatest fighter in the Universe. Darkseid wins this. He's stronger, more versatile, etc. Has telepathy too.

When has Darksied ever been shows to be stronger than WW?

No. No. No and no. Ares is not the greatest fighter in the Universe. Darkseid wins this. He's stronger, more versatile, etc. Has telepathy too.

Darkseid was fooled in to thinking he had killed Supergirl,even if the bracelets can deflect the OE the writing still leaves a lot to be desired.

PIS and CIS

These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.

Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively. This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)

This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not.

@Outside_85 said:

@comicdude23 said:

@pander1 said:

@King Saturn: Yeah... Ares is a God too.  A real God. THE God of War. Not just a strong alien who calls himself a God.    Ares is actually supposed to be, in the DC Universe, the greatest fighter in the Universe (level 16).  And Wonder Woman has beaten him in combat as well.  Darkseid could win, but don't count on it.  Wonder Woman makes a habit of defeating stronger opponents with her superior training and techniques  

No. No. No and no. Ares is not the greatest fighter in the Universe. Darkseid wins this. He's stronger, more versatile, etc. Has telepathy too.

When has Darksied ever been shows to be stronger than WW?

He's been shown to be stronger than Superman, and can easily smack him around. Whom is stronger than WW.

@Outside_85: You think WW is stronger?

@comicdude23 said: 

No. No. No and no. Ares is not the greatest fighter in the Universe. Darkseid wins this. He's stronger, more versatile, etc. Has telepathy too.

Darkseid has never used telepathy in a fight. I doubt he even has it, aside from possibly simple low-level mind scanning. 
 
@entropy_aegis said: 

Darkseid was fooled in to thinking he had killed Supergirl,even if the bracelets can deflect the OE the writing still leaves a lot to be desired.

You say that about pretty much everything that doesn't show Darkseid as being invincible though.  You originally said, "The bracelets don't mean squat to the OE." I was just pointing out there is no reason to believe this. Even if that comic didn't exist, there are instances of the Omega Beams being blocked, and Wonder Woman's bracelets have never been broken to my knowledge, which makes it reasonable they could deflect them. Regardless of the writing, that comic is the only one I know of where she and Darkseid directly clash*, if even briefly, and it supports rather than refutes the idea. So basically, there is a precedent to think the bracelets would offer her protection, and none to think they wouldn't.  *Rock of Ages doesn't count for being an alternate future where Darkseid has mastered the ALE. I also don't think he used the OE on her anyway.

i can't belive this thread  
D easily wins 
WW die

but you're wrong when you say Darkseid was AMPED,he never gained additional power.All those objects and people he drained was to RESTORE his own power.It's the difference between food and steroids.Afterall one cannot say that Galactus amps himself by eating planets.

I try to clear about anything that might be bad writing,which means paying no attention to Countdown,Superman/Batman or anything Doomsday related. Superman/Batman is the same series where Damian Wayne and Supergirl clash as well.It's OOC for literally everybody.

@entropy_aegis said:

but you're wrong when you say Darkseid was AMPED,he never gained additional power.All those objects and people he drained was to RESTORE his own power.It's the difference between food and steroids.Afterall one cannot say that Galactus amps himself by eating planets.

 That might be a reasonable interpretation if he had feats on approximately the same level anywhere else, which he doesn't. If he did, then people wouldn't have to rely so heavily on GDS when they want to make him look good. The fact is, the feats DS pulls off 1,000 years in the future after absorbing Time Trapper and Mordru's powers vastly outstrip anything shown by modern Darkseid, and even anything else from Pre-Crisis Darkseid that I know of. Something must have been different, and him being amped is the obvious choice.

I try to clear about anything that might be bad writing,which means paying no attention to Countdown,Superman/Batman or anything Doomsday related. Superman/Batman is the same series where Damian Wayne and Supergirl clash as well.It's OOC for literally everybody.

Like I said though, even ignoring all those, there is no reason to think his Omega Beams couldn't be blocked by her bracelets. They've tanked shots from skyfathers before, and the OB have failed to penetrate certain objects before. Her bracelets have not yet been shown to have limits. The Omega Beams have. Bracelets win.  The TP argument was directed at comicsdude23.

@comicdude23: This is completely different from Superman's speed problems. Superman has used his speed on many occasions. Enough for us to be certain he truly does have it. I have never seen Darkseid use telepathy as an attack, which begs the question of whether or not he even can. A lot of people assume that he can, but the only scans I've ever seen people use to support this are either from GDS, which is an amped future version of Darkseid, or from Final Crisis, when it was actually the ALE that was used to enslave humanity, not DS on his own (and even then, it was mostly Libra spreading the ALE, not DS himself).Let me ask you, do you believe Darkseid has telepathy because you've actually seen it yourself, or do you believe he has telepathy because you've heard a lot of other people say he does? If the former, could you please tell me where you saw it (aside from GDS or Final Crisis, which I already mentioned don't actually prove anything). For my part, the closest I've ever seen was in AC 586, on Superman, but even there, it was really more of a hypnotic suggestion than actual telepathy, he didn't use it to actually harm or incapacitate Superman in any way (actually, he made him much stronger), and Superman was already mentally dominated by Amazing Grace. By the end of the issue Superman has broken her control (with Orion's help) and fights Darkseid directly, and there is no attempt made by DS to mentally dominate him or use telepathy.  So again, I don't think he even has this power, despite what the internet says. Even if he does have some degree of telepathy, that doesn't automatically make it the "mind rape" variety, and it doesn't mean it is strong enough to affect Wonder Woman.

When has Superman used his speed in battle? 

@AtPhantom: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=wonder+woman+vs+darkseid&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1163&bih=620&tbm=isch&tbnid=U8p2ZTWkoD-xNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/avengers-and-justice-league-vs-thanos-and-darkseids-team/612748/&docid=GyM0aWQJTBwGXM&imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-86jyVfvoV3s/T1DhUmn8lBI/AAAAAAAAEXs/Wan_dUaUdm8/s640/justiceleague6a%252Bwonder%252Bwoman%252Bstabs%252Bdarkseid.jpg&w=406&h=640&ei=cPdcUJDWA4mpiQLqoIHgAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=112&vpy=212&dur=310&hovh=282&hovw=179&tx=93&ty=194&sig=107064146914050793137&page=1&tbnh=120&tbnw=83&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:95

@AtPhantom:wonder woman has blocked darkseids omega beams even in the new 52 when they battled him and with her magical weapons such as her sword she can stab him in both eyes and thus not letting him use his omega beams. and with him blind she can hit him in the ears with her aegis (like she did 2 superman which even made his ears bleed) and then she can choke darkseid with her lasso and bind up his arms so he can't take off the loop around his neck and then she can strike him somewhere in the body that will cause him to exhale. or she could jus snap his neck

Darkseid easily.

@Freefa11: He does not use telepathy when fighting Superman for same reason he doesn't bring a piece of Kryptonite along something which should be easy for him to obtain, it would slow down the flow of the story. If he did either of these things they would constantly need to make up reasons or give Superman plot devices so he can realistically challenge Darkseid, this is highly noticeable in the X-Men comics where it feels like they need to explain how or why the villain cannot simply be stopped by the small army of telepaths in the series.

@ClarkJosephKent1938DC: I would agree. It had been suggested that Wonder Woman, Superman, Supergirl and Martin Manhunter are the strongest of the DC Universe. However Wonder Woman is the most trained/skilled fighter.

@Undergroundgod said:

Yeah Wonder Woman can beat Darkseid, It is true that she would go about it in her own way, which can be scary as hell at times.

Is Nu52 Darkseid in continuity?....I don't think so

The real Darkseid is a lot more durable than Wonder Woman

IDK GUYS! this is juicy I dont think most of you are giving diana the credit she deserves Now Darkseids a savage! no denying that but I believe wonder woman is alot better equipped to fight Darkseid than Superman. The lasso for instance it would be interesting to see what would happen if she caught him in that. BUT ANYWAY lol Wonder Woman is just as strong as superman if not shes right there in strength with him but strength only gets you so far i think in a hand to hand toss up WW would take it to his ass! Even supergirl took it to him in Apocalypse! and shes not a fighter of WW;s Caliber so while WW MAY lose hes not just gbonna wipe the floor with her im just sayin

wonderwoman wins this

@ancient_0f_days

Pre-52 versions right.....well, as per Darkseid's powerset including his inability to die by any means other than prophecy and extensive team based improvisation, and Wonder Woman's insane level of speed and regeneration ....I'd say Uxas wins but he doesn't have many options as for actually killing Diana, but since BFR isn't banned in the OP he could always teleport her to the center of Apokolips.

For an actual fight, she'd seemingly have an advantage in speed and skill, but Uxas has been an student of war for at least 1500 years as his bio suggests and was able to physically/skillfully match his son Orion in combat (Orion was trained by the most skilled fighter known to the Fourth World and surpassed her). He was toying with Orion and allowed himself to lose to Orion twice just for self study while clearly dominating in both scenarios, meaning his experience as a warrior could possibly match or surpass Diana's.

Uxas's speed is also questionable as he has shown the ability to disappear from Orion's sight instantly as well as Superman and the Infinity Man (while they were looking right at him), this is something Wonder Woman has shown to do as well to Superman although he had his back turned for a split second in "Sacrifice". Darkseid has also made note of his microsecond reaction speed and displayed his speed to Superman by slapping hip away casually when Superman attempts a speed blitz, last time Wonder Woman defended from a speed blitz from Supes she was almost taken to the Sun like Darkseid was and was luckily punched back to Earth (had Superman kept her up there with his powers increasing beyond hers she would've lost the fight like Darkseid did). Diana's speed is still above Darkseid's but not by so much that is makes a significant difference, she has more feats of skill but Darkseid's origin and skill feats are more than enough to suggest he can combat her just as well as he does Superman and Orion.

Now, factoring in abilities and equipment. Wonder Woman will not have success in slitting his throat with her tiara or restraining him with her lasso as he cannot bleed out (he's been cut in half before and simply reformed) and he can teleport out of the lasso's hold, magical lightning may damage him a bit but there will be no lasting effects. Diana has shown she can block the Omega Beams when her bracers are crossed, problem is if he catches her when they aren't she's screwed (he one shotted H/P Doomsday with a serious blast, of course he came back cus thats his power but thats beside the point).

Uxas has shown several abilities with the Omega Effect, instant incineration, teleportation, hand blasts, stun/stasis, depowerment, time travel, avatars, transmutation, creation of powerful beings, matter manipulation, command over shadow demons, size manipulation, the Omega Sanction and finally the ability to completely erase beings from existence. Wonder Woman has only to block with her bracelets to avoid most of these abilities, but others are beyond her power to overcome.

Due to the nature of Darkseid's abilities, he will win with moderate difficulty. The reason why he loses to Superman, the only reason, is to PIS and WIS, the writers completely forget that he is a threat worthy of a planet worth of Superman level beings such as Orion, and the Forever People. Also, just to note, I'm not sure if Darkseid having a piece of Wonder Woman's soul will be a problem...it probably means that if she dies, damage could be done to his soul as well, this means he'd probably go for a BFR win just to be safe.

Bump

@tazzmaynian: the lasso really only work on lesser beings, almost every powerhouse ive seen wonder woman use the lasso on ends up grabbing it chucking her towards them and bashing her head in. DARKSEID is a justice league villain not a superman villain,with that being said darkseid stomps hard he has beaten the Jl countless times alltogether.

Darkseid.

Darkseid

Darkseid==> *pimp smack* ...............The End.

I think it depends on which Darkseid. Any Darkseid would beat her. But current Darkseid (the one who can easily out strength the entire Justice League) would beat her sooooo easy!

:wo

Umm did you just stop watching the movie there? After she stabbed him, he rams her through a building and if it wasn't for Flash and the rest of the team, He would of beaten her to death. I mean it doesn't matter if she could block the beam, he physically stronger than her and demonstrates it in that scene. In case people don't know what hes talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzlL5ouF0Ao

At 1 min, he attacks wonderwomen and everyone saves her, if not for the team, DS would of murdered her. Love how he mentions where she stabs him and literally stops talking about what happens in the very next scene

Darkseid easily. He has outmuscled Superman before, Wonder Woman shouldn't be no problem. Remember what Mongul sr did ta Wonder Woman? Darkseid's gonna do worse.

Wonder Woman tries ta dropkick Darkseid, but he grabs her legs an' throws her into a wall, then he jumps t'wards her an' punches her thru the wall, an' then he grabs her backhead an' face-plants her to the ground, three times, then he super-football kicks her away. Then she gets up, runs t'wards Darkseid an' dropkicks him in the face, an' then punches him in the face, but hurts her own fist (she hurt her fist fightin' Mongul sr, an' Darkseid's even tougher than Mongul sooo ye). Then Darkseid backhands her thru a wall, an' then he jumps t'wards her, grabs her head an' says "pathetic. You cant hope to beat one such as Darkseid, Amazon". Then he headbutts her to the ground, an' then he stomps her face deep into the ground. Then he picks her up by her hair an' fires the full force of his Omega Beams at her face, an' eventually reduces her to ashes.

@agent41:

oh ok didn't know that. Ok if we're usin' post-crisis WW then Darkseid still wins but probably not in a curbstomp

Darkseid stomps her badly.

Darkseid

DS.

I don't think Darkseid can pimp smack WW as easily as with Superman and is Darkseid fast in combat? Afaik, Diana has proven to tag Supes faster than he could react. Wonder Woman in New 52 has most of Superman's advantages, but excels Kal-El in combat speed. The Omega Beams can be tanked by her bracelets (as she did when the Greek Pantheon shot a universally powerful attack) and if Supes and Flash can evade them with their travel speed, so can Wonder Woman. Don't forget that WW can hit pretty fast, so don't take that lightly. Darkseid may be a supreme alien, but WW is a demi-goddess with great feats in physical strength.

Bumping this for the sake of bumping it.

DS is far superior to WW. Even currently, he took on the league, which I doubt Diana could do. So I don't know how there was a 7 page debate on this..

wondy loses

Still Darkseid.

Darkseid in a worthy fight