Islam invasion.

I know I'm going to get some people who disagree with me greatly on here. But I have to say this. In paris there were coordinated killings by muslims killink at least 150 people and injuring more. France has now closed her borders. I think other countries should realize what's going on and, if not entirely, deeply restrict their borders.

This won't end well.

Muslims didn't attack Paris, terrorist extremist did.

Also, this won't end well.

They were islamic terrorist. And they were immigrants. But we really need to realize that we need to protect our borders. They're coming in for the specific reason of killing infidels and terrorizing others into Islam.

Why do people spread this hate.

There are over 1 BILLION Muslims in the world. Don't let the actions of a few form your opinions of so many people. That is where racism and bigotry start.

Inb4 lock

@bakera8: Actually it's not racist. Muslims can be white, black, olive, they could be green if such a skin existed. And if you're counting women don't bother, they aren't even all muslims. Do you know what happened the moment Islam became Islam? They were not peaceful, at all. Some were, but not Muhammad.

I agree close boarders everyone, but not all Muslims are terrorists

@cgoodness: Although not ALL muslims are terrorists. The origin of muslims were violent against infidels greatly. So it cannot be truly called a religion of peace.

I call it racism because most people who condemn Islam have a negative view of Arabs, I accuse no one on here of this.

I call it bigotry because it is intolerant, I accuse no one on here of this.

Do you know what happened the moment Islam became Islam?

Yes. I study history at university

They were not peaceful, at all. Some were, but not Muhammad.

The past is the past. We should not condemn Islam for its past. this same thing could be applied to many religions.

I dont believe any religion is a religion of peace (no im not some smug fart sniffing atheist), while yes they believe in a bunch of no nos, i believe the majority of people (muslims including) are good people

What's this?

@bakera8: There must be another thread like this. So he means this will get locked.

Oh ok. Thanks. I am new and still learning the acronyms. I guess that's what InB4 is?

@bakera8: Most religions, at least some of the more respected ones, didn't start out violently like Islam. Even greeks weren't necessarily like that. Although roman mythology is very violent. I think norse was too but I don't know norse mythology well.

@bakera8: You're welcome! It normally confuses me too.

All of the Major religions started very violent.

Judaism has a lot of violent conquest early on.

Christianity spread by the sword.

Buddhism spread by the sword.

Islam is different in that Muhammad did lead a military campaign in Arabia, but over all Islam is no different. In fact Islam has been more tolerant at times during its history then other contemporary religions.

We should not look at the origin of modern Islamic extremist in there holy text, but in modern history.

Most evangelical religions spread because of military conquest.

non-evangelical religions, think Shinto and Jainism, don't spread, if at all.

@bakera8: Apparently we've learned quite differently. Christianity was peaceful and spread because people were impressed during the perfections where they faced torture and death with open arms. Muhammad wasn't tolerante, neither were his successors, I guess you probably think christians were at fault during the crusades then. Most who side with Islam as peacful and tolerant do think that the crusades were christianitys fault.

I love how people loved to make the claim of "Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslim". Do a check on the list of terrorist activities worldwide (I did a google search). MAJORITY of terrorist activities are NON-MUSLIM.

Its just that islamic extremism gets more media coverage, maybe partly because it sells more papers.

And yeah, origin of muslims were violent against infidels? Same with Judaism and Christianity I guess. Not much better, if any at all.

I reiterate. Islam gets more media coverage, which is why they get the perception of being violent. Muslims aren't any better/worse than Christians.

Christianity was peaceful? Did you read the Bible? How violent ancient Jews were? I guess not.

Mmm... mind blown...

@donatellorawks: Nobody ever said all terrorists are muslims. Who said that? Actually a "christian" preforming a terrorist attack would sell a lot more especially if it's a Catholic. Today, everybody wants to get rid of Catholocism. People already know about Islam being non peacful and the ones who don't think it's wrong to sell palers about it. Why do people think Christianity started out that way? In reality it was oppressed and spread because they faced death and pain so well viewers were impressed and converted since if it was worth dying for it must be greater than what they had.

@donatellorawks: People were a lot better at knowing truth from lie when seeing them together at the time. Do you know that the majority of deaths caused by Jews were because of extremely evil deeds such as worshiping evil and sacraficing people to demonic things? Did you read the bible?

Some where. Others converted because with the fall of the Western Roman Empire many kings forced Christianity on there subjects. Other ruler, such as Charlemagne, spread it by the sword.

Muhammad wasn't tolerante, neither were his successors,

My reference is mostly about the Ottoman Empire (Which is the Islamic state I am mostly familiar with), which was more tolerant than many European kingdoms. As Islam spread it gave a choice to its new subjects, convert or face higher taxes. This choice wasn't given by most Christian nations.

I guess you probably thik christians were at fault during the crusades then.

"Fault" is a technical thing. Most historians would not say the crusades where the Christians fault, but the origin of them came out of Christian beliefs at the time.

Most who side with Islam as peacful and tolerant do think that the crusades were christianitys fault.

As a historian who has worked with Islamic scholars I have not seen times.

I would view this as a modern myth created by Christians. Most Christian became that way because the king of the land they lived on forced them to be Christians.

@bakera8:

"Some where. Others converted because with the fall of the Western Roman Empire many kings forced Christianity on there subjects. Other ruler, such as Charlemagne, spread it by the sword."

Some kings did and they are considered wrong. Actually Charlamagne allowed one pagan baron as I remeber but he had to convert because he wouldn't stop rebbeling against Charlamagne. The moment he converted it stopped.

"My reference is mostly about the Ottoman Empire (Which is the Islamic state I am mostly familiar with), which was more tolerant than many European kingdoms. As Islam spread it gave a choice to its new subjects, convert or face higher taxes. This choice wasn't given by most Christian nations."

You mean the taxes that cost far to much to pay? Actually they didn't even need to make that choice, you're wrong about that part.

"Fault" is a technical thing. Most historians would not say the crusades where the Christians fault, but the origin of them came out of Christian beliefs at the time."

You mean defending oneself? That's a natural belief. Actually I have heard it said before especially in the religion thread (in comicvine that is)

@bakera8: No. The myth is that it was forced.

People (and I use the term loosely) like the people who carried out the attacks in France use Islam to try and justify their sickening and heartless acts, If their was no Islam theses animals would just tie their banner to another mast and attempt to use that as a justification Instead, they are heartless, soulless and loveless, and would spread hate and destruction and grief around the World for no other reason than because they can and want too, They are not Muslims because you have to be Human to be a Muslim, And these ****s are about as far away from that definition as it is as possible to be.

@flumox56: About as far away from human or muslim? They seem pretty close to muslim and human. Human in the scientific term.

Some kings did and they are considered wrong.

By whom?

Actually Charlamagne allowed one pagan baron as I remeber but he had to convert because he wouldn't stop rebbeling against Charlamagne. The moment he converted it stopped.

I believe you are wrong. Do you have a scholarly source for this? I have read all the primary works during Charlemagne life and they do not mention it.

You mean the taxes that cost far to much to pay? Actually they didn't even need to make that choice, you're wrong about that part.

I am not wrong. The tax was called the Jizya. The amount varied, depending on times of war and by state, but the Ottoman empire had million of non-Muslims. The people within Islamic states who paid this where called Dhimmi or protected people. Interesting enough the Ottoman empire would not let some Christians convert because it would shrink the tax base.

You mean defending oneself? That's a natural belief.

No, I would not call it that. The start of the crusades are a complex historical event that isn't that simple. The Crusades start form a back and forth between the Pope at the time, Urban II, and Emperor Alexios I. Urban was trying to gain political power for the church in Europe by fighting an outside enemy.

Actually I have heard it said before especially in the religion thread (in comicvine that is)

Ok, perhaps it is a belief among people, but I don't think scholar look at it like that.

Everyone who claimed that Islam is the main source of religious violence and extremism, willfully ignoring the fact that there are other non-muslim groups doing the same.

I believe what matters is the true question... Is Islam really inherently more violent compared to other religions? You're only thinking one-sided, on the early Christians' persecution. You must note that Christianity had, just like Islam, its roots in Judaism. And the Old Testament is rife with extreme violence, which you seemed to address below...

So what the Old Testament seemed to advocate is that if the beliefs were different from that of Judaism, they deserve to die? So religion is what is needed to justify a genocide?

Worshiping evil? What? Its just another deity.

Sacrificing people to demonic things? What? Where? If I remembered correctly, outside of God's test for Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, the Jews weren't any better in other entries in the Old Testament. And yes, one of the Jews did made a prayer that God granted - To sacrifice his own daughter.

No it isn't. It is a commonly held scholarly opinion that most Christianization was forced. Good examples are Clovis I, who was king of the Franks and Vladimir of the Rus.

I can recommend some books if you like?

Aloooooooot of lying going on in this thread. Either that or misinformation, which unfortunately will be spread.

@donatellorawks:

I never said Islam is the main source. You keep trying to "put words in my mouth" as it is called.

Where is that said? Evil is not a diety. If you think that I cannot possibly expect to have a winning argument with you. I don't ever remember a part where a jew sacraficed someone and it was called right. Where did you get that?

@bakera8: A scholorly opinion isn't always right. For instance: many schools indorce, homosexuality, abortion, and others. They also indorce Obama who is either an idiot or is purposefully destroying America. I genuinely hope he's an idiot more than trying to destroy America.

@admirallogic: For someone who follows a Religion himself, a religion that has some unspeakable acts and atrocities committed in its name and by people (I again use the word loosely) claiming to represent Christianity, should know better than to tar every Muslim (or Islam itself) with the same brush or to make such sweeping generalizations about people of a certain faith.

I am no fan of Islam or any Religion, But I am aware that not all Muslims (or Christians et cetara) are the same, There are good bad and down right evil people in every Religion or in any other walk of life for that matter.

@admirallogic: What experience do you have with Muslims? Do you have any Muslim friends? gone to university with some?

Is your only experience through the media?

@bakera8: Fortunatley and at the same time unfortunately I have not had a known interaction with a muslim man. However media can include history books, videos, etc. One thing I find especially disturbing is the worshipping of the cube or square thing, I can't currently remember what it is called. It literally frightens me. Looking at it makes me feel like I'm losing my sanity.

The great thing about scholarship is that it changes. I welcome you to submit an article on you interpretation of these historical facts to a scholarly journal!

For instance: many schools indorce, homosexuality, abortion, and others.

Does indorce= endorse? I'll assume it does.

Which school endorse homosexuality? List one. Many universities are accepting of homosexuality, as they should be, but I don't think they endorse homosexuality.

They also indorce Obama

Huh?

who is either an idiot or is purposefully destroying America. I genuinely hope he's an idiot more than trying to destroy America.

This isn't worth addressing. No leader try's to harm his nation.

This.

Also original poster you realize the reason there are so many refuges from Islamic countries is because they are trying to get away from the types of people who committed these terrorist attacks! The refugees are also victims of these terrorists just like those in Paris!

Anyways this is a comics forum. Why is this even posted here? Go talk about your hate somewhere where it is at least relevant. Really hope this is locked ASAP.

I would welcome you to introduce yourself to Muslims your community! I think you will find them very welcoming and nice. They may also reassure you of some of your fears.

However media can include history books, videos, etc. One thing I find especially disturbing is the worshipping of the cube or square thing, I can't currently remember what it is called. It literally frightens me. Looking at it makes me feel like I'm losing my sanity.

The Black Stone? Many religion has sacred sites. I assume people of other religions would think the same thing if then saw you at your place of worship, if you do worship (I am not assuming nor do you have to say).

That was your implication when you made this thread. You called it "Islam invasion" when you could very well call it "Undesirable foreigner invasion" or something along those lines.

To put you into my perspective, I'm talking about definitions. Your definition of what is evil is different from another person's definition of what is evil. Of course a Christian would think that "Satan" is evil. Satanists would argue otherwise (Which BTW, Satanists do not exist in the way mainstream media describes).

Yes, the Old Testament Book Judges, of Jephthah sacrificing his daughter. Does God of the Bible approved of it? In all seriousness, I doubt the intent of the writer was to show that God of the Bible approved of the sacrifice. But it does show that the Jews aren't much better in their early history of Early Christianity/Judaism as compared to Islam.

I agree. If any MOD is listening this most likely breaks some rules, right?

@bakera8:

"I would welcome you to introduce yourself to Muslims your community! I think you will find them very welcoming and nice."

I'd also probably get into an argument (non violent) the same way my mother has. And probably do as much research on them as possible to be safe.

"The Black Stone? Many religion has sacred sites. I assume people of other religions would think the same thing if then saw you at your place of worship, if you do worship (I am not assuming nor do you have to say)."

I do worship, extraordinary form (also known as latin mass). The point is the object itself frightens me. When I see an image of it I can only think of the devil and some strange frightening emotion that I can't explain. It frightens me more than most horror movies.

Can we please lock this? Everyone has their own agendas and flags for whatever camp they support. No one is going to be convincing anyone to change anything.

@saren@sc@jloneblackheart

@donatellorawks: If they worship Satan they must believe in God. And why worship a less than supreme being? Also, if it wasn't condoned than it isn't part of it. Every belief becomes evil if you look at it that way, even the belief that the sun is a star.

Why can't this be just moved to off-topic? Do you have to want to lock whatever is not relevant? It may not be about comics, but it can simply be moved to other "more relevant" forums.

@micah: That's not a very good reason. Maybe think of another? Cause if that's all it takes than the majority of religion or political based threads need to be locked.

This discussion isn't going to go anywhere. Like I said above thinking anyone's going to get anywhere with anybody is just wishful thinking. And a clash of so many discussions and ideas just leads to the further spreading of misinformation, which is what's starting to happen here.