@heatblaze123: I see you didn't respond to Davos or the immortal iron fist upgrade. I also see you didn't respond to your clear admittance that spider man is worse than iron fist.
@heatblaze123: that's it huh? Still can't find a rebuttal for Davos, the nuke level explosives, or the helicarier feat eh?
Oh well, what can I say? Your whole argument was whack from the start.
Can you piss off? Your Davos doesn't have Spider-Man fighting him whatsoever, he's not even in your post. Danny's durability isn't nuke level, that's bloody stupid, nothing supports this at all, he's been harmed and knocked out by less, and he couldn't even beat BP while he was bloodlusted. The helicarrier isn't going to change the dynamic of the fight.
@heatblaze123: that's it huh? Still can't find a rebuttal for Davos, the nuke level explosives, or the helicarier feat eh?
Oh well, what can I say? Your whole argument was whack from the start.
Can you piss off? Your Davos doesn't have Spider-Man fighting him whatsoever, he's not even in your post. Danny's durability isn't nuke level, that's bloody stupid, nothing supports this at all, he's been harmed and knocked out by less, and he couldn't even beat BP while he was bloodlusted. The helicarrier isn't going to change the dynamic of the fight.
I am not going to sit here and argue this with either of you, because I really have no desire to go back and see what level Danny was at skill/power wise at the time this thread was made, but I want to clarify a few things. Danny can absorb energy, which would help explain how he survived the train full of explosives that would make Hiroshima look like a sparkler, so it is not exactly a durability feat per se (Danny had the Shou Lao chi to help protect from the actual train itself with his Iron Fist attack), but in modern times Danny has gotten back up to continue the fight after he was punched through half a dozen floors in a building. As for Davos versus Spidey, Davos did in fact beat Spidey, with battles in Marvel Team Up volume 1, numbers 64 and 65.
@heatblaze123: that's it huh? Still can't find a rebuttal for Davos, the nuke level explosives, or the helicarier feat eh?
Oh well, what can I say? Your whole argument was whack from the start.
Can you piss off? Your Davos doesn't have Spider-Man fighting him whatsoever, he's not even in your post. Danny's durability isn't nuke level, that's bloody stupid, nothing supports this at all, he's been harmed and knocked out by less, and he couldn't even beat BP while he was bloodlusted. The helicarrier isn't going to change the dynamic of the fight.
+1
And whatever Davos did to Spider-man it's not applicable to Iron Fist.
1) that was classic iron fist, we're talking about current fist in this thread. As in the one after his upgrade.
2) Iron fist wasn't trying to fight cap. Cap was going all out. Fist wasn't even TRYING.
3) you didn't actually rebut any of my proven claims. You just showed a scan that shows iron fist not hitting at his full.
4) I never said he hit as hard as a nuke. I only said he tanked nuke level explosives. Please stop making things up
If you would like a scan of iron fist using his real power on a helicarier, then please just ask. I can provide it easily as well as him trashing a ship with his chi.
Your argument is so far below ridiculous that it's not even funny. You're trying to debate something clearly stated in a scan, which is clear desperation of any foothold on an argument against my claims.
Right here is a classic example of how Spider-Man fangirls just love making baseless claims to defend spidey. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that some of these accounts are the same person. The incorrect spelling and overall idiotic statements are consistent.
@mr-luxcipher: I never, ever exaggerated any of Fist's abilities. He did in fact one shot a helicarier out of the sky and he did tank a train with nuke level explosives with chi. Nothing was exaggerated.
@bourbonzedrunk: I want you to quote me when I said "Captain America hit harder than a nuke". Like you claimed I did. Or did you mean Iron fist? In both scenarios, that scan is inapplicable.
@visemoon:
*sigh*
Someone already tried that one genius. Iron fist himself said "I held my own against him, but Spider man is more dangerous than he looks". That either meant he tied or won against Spider-Man.
It was Power Man or whoever that was who interpreted it as fist not being able to beat spidey. Iron fist himself didnt admit to it: which means that scan is inapplicable here.
Here are some things I found that I can back up:
As immortal iron fist, his iron fist did visible damage on a hulk.
Iron fist has hearing comparable to daredevil. Maybe not quite the same, but comparable.
In addition to a helicarier, the iron fist has taken out a ship
Someone already tried that one genius. Iron fist himself said "I held my own against him, but Spider man is more dangerous than he looks".
*sigh*
Incorrect. Vic asked him was there anyone he wasn't able to beat and Danny told him Spider-Man. Why wasn't he able to beat Spider-Man?
In order for him to beat Spider-Man, he wished he had Vic's Powers to be a step a head of Spider-Man. So what did Vic do? He set out to beat the man Ironfist couldn't beat...
And to quote something I just read recently...
Buddy, here's the rule with scans: what the comic says is law, don't question it.
That either meant he tied or won against Spider-Man.
No, it doesn't
It was Power Man or whoever that was who interpreted it as fist not being able to beat spidey. Iron fist himself didnt admit to it: which means that scan is inapplicable here.
It's inapplicable, because you don't like and choose to ignore it.
Here are some things I found that I can back up:
As immortal iron fist, his iron fist did visible damage on a hulk.
Iron fist has hearing comparable to daredevil. Maybe not quite the same, but comparable.
In addition to a helicarier, the iron fist has taken out a ship
Incorrect. Danny never admitted to not being able to beat spidey.
I'll read to you exactly what he said:
" I held my own against him, but Spider Man is more dangerous than he looks..."
"Hold my own" doesn't necessarily mean defeated. If fist was actually defeated he would've said something along the lines of "spiderman beat me". Unless you have scans of the actual battle, none of what you're saying can be taken seriously.
My rule perfectly fits here: Vic said it and not iron fist. Doesn't count because Vic, I repeat, VIC said it. NOT DANNY.
That should explain the fault in your argument.
My turn:
If Spiderman REALLY DID beat iron fist, then why couldn't he defeat Davos? More importantly, why could Danny defeat Davos when Davos stole Danny's power? According to your logic, since Danny>Davos, and Peter>Danny, then Peter>>Davos. But in reality, Davos>Peter. Something doesn't quite add up there...
Oh, by the way, was fist bloodlusted AND/OR using chi in that battle? Not saying he was or wasn't, just asking.
Incorrect. Danny never admitted to not being able to beat spidey.
The question that was asked by Vic was which super hero did iron fist fight and couldn't defeat:
Danny than responded talking about spider-man:
If was able to beat spider-man in there fights why would he tell Vic this? You could argue Danny said he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past and never said he couldn't beat spider-man however. I think that would be fair.
If Spiderman REALLY DID beat iron fist, then why couldn't he defeat Davos? More importantly, why could Danny defeat Davos when Davos stole Danny's power? According to your logic, since Danny>Davos, and Peter>Danny, then Peter>>Davos. But in reality, Davos>Peter. Something doesn't quite add up there...
Oh, by the way, was fist bloodlusted AND/OR using chi in that battle? Not saying he was or wasn't, just asking.
As for past fights between the two here:
This is there first fight. Its pretty even all though it started because spider-man fell on top of Danny, which causes Danny to get very angry (threatening spider-man that he will kill him) and peter doesn't want to fight. The fight ends when Peter webs Danny up and explains the situation, all though Danny breaks out of the webbing. We know he was held down for a few minutes but its unclear if Danny could have escaped earlier (we know he wasn't listening to spider-man up until that point)
In this fight iron fist has the benefit of the home field advantage, traps, and also exploits there friendship to cheap shot spider-man. Peter starts pounding on him at the end. I think spider-man did clearly have the advantage here.
Incorrect. Danny never admitted to not being able to beat spidey.
The question that was asked by Vic was which super hero did iron fist fight and couldn't defeat:
Danny than responded talking about spider-man:
If was able to beat spider-man in there fights why would he tell Vic this? You could argue Danny said he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past and never said he couldn't beat spider-man however. I think that would be fair.
If Spiderman REALLY DID beat iron fist, then why couldn't he defeat Davos? More importantly, why could Danny defeat Davos when Davos stole Danny's power? According to your logic, since Danny>Davos, and Peter>Danny, then Peter>>Davos. But in reality, Davos>Peter. Something doesn't quite add up there...
Oh, by the way, was fist bloodlusted AND/OR using chi in that battle? Not saying he was or wasn't, just asking.
As for past fights between the two here:
This is there first fight. Its pretty even all though it started because spider-man fell on top of Danny, which causes Danny to get very angry (threatening spider-man that he will kill him) and peter doesn't want to fight. The fight ends when Peter webs Danny up and explains the situation, all though Danny breaks out of the webbing. We know he was held down for a few minutes but its unclear if Danny could have escaped earlier (we know he wasn't listening to spider-man up until that point)
In this fight iron fist has the benefit of the home field advantage, traps, and also exploits there friendship to cheap shot spider-man. Peter starts pounding on him at the end. I think spider-man did clearly have the advantage here.
You could argue Danny said he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past and never said he couldn't beat spider-man however. I think that would be fair.
@jashro44: still, I commend you on that argument. You have some good points. However, going back to the title, it says CURRENT iron fist vs BACK IN BLACK spiderman. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I believe BIB spidey was when he decked the kingpin in jail, but I'd look that one up to be sure...
Those fights are pretty decent, and to a surface level view, they would've been great against me. However, I found a few things wrong with them:
1) Iron fist used no chi until he broke the webbing. This means no enhanced senses or strength or regen.
2) that was Classic Fist. Current fist underwent a huge upgrade (immortal iron fist). His senses increased 10,000 fold and he gained senses comparable to daredevil and wolverine.
3) neither were bloodlusted
I say both fights were about equal. Fist used trickery, which is fair game in a fight. IMO neither fight showcased the true extent of their abilities.
As for the big Vic and Danny question, well, Danny still didn't clearly say he lost to spider man. If there's no definite proof, then that scan can't be used for mine or your claim.
still, I commend you on that argument. You have some good points. However, going back to the title, it says CURRENT iron fist vs BACK IN BLACK spiderman. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I believe BIB spidey was when he decked the kingpin in jail, but I'd look that one up to be sure...
Those fights are pretty decent, and to a surface level view, they would've been great against me. However, I found a few things wrong with them:
I was just debating current regular versions. All though back in black has more powers and is physically superior.
1) Iron fist used no chi until he broke the webbing. This means no enhanced senses or strength or regen.
Danny did use chi. Even before he trained with the book of iron fist he still used chi to do a verity of things, its how he managed to kick through that metal telephone pole during the fight with spider-man. He just never used his iron fist technique until the end of the fight. Really both characters have gotten more powerful and more experienced since that fight anyways.
2) that was Classic Fist. Current fist underwent a huge upgrade (immortal iron fist). His senses increased 10,000 fold and he gained senses comparable to daredevil and wolverine.
10,000 fold is an overstatement. Regardless why does this matter? How do iron fists enhanced senses help him against spider-man?
3) neither were bloodlusted
Danny was the aggressor in both fights (mainly the first)
I say both fights were about equal. Fist used trickery, which is fair game in a fight. IMO neither fight showcased the true extent of their abilities.
Tricky would be fair game but the problem is Danny exploiting friendship like that is something which is circumstantial. Peter didn't know why they were fighting and he thought Danny was going to explain himself. I am assuming in this fight both combatants know why there in a fight so that is off the table. Besides Peter also tricked (well maybe not trick but out smarted) iron fist later in the fight:
He knew iron fist would attempt to throw him which allowed Peter to web Danny and swing him into the sign. Likewise Danny doesn't have the home field advantage here like he did in that fight. I am assuming there fighting on neutral ground. So if you think about it Danny never really displayed better tactics than spider-man, the circumstances just favored him.
As for the big Vic and Danny question, well, Danny still didn't clearly say he lost to spider man. If there's no definite proof, then that scan can't be used for mine or your claim.
Again I agree which is why I said you can argue Danny never said he couldn't beat spider-man. However I still think its significant that he says that he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past. Like wsie he does state that he wishes he had Vic's chi reading abilities in order to counter spider-sense. I think it shows that Peter's spider-sense does give him a little bit of an edge in there fights and this is reflected when Peter was dodging Danny's punches in the dark, despite Danny not being hindered by the darkness due to familiarity with the location. And also in amazing spider-man 653 when Smythe replicated spider-sense into all his goons the new avengers had a hard time tagging these guys and Danny did comment on there dodges:
So I don't think its inconsistent even in the modern era for Danny to have difficulty due to Peter's spider-sense.
1) that was classic iron fist, we're talking about current fist in this thread. As in the one after his upgrade.
2) Iron fist wasn't trying to fight cap. Cap was going all out. Fist wasn't even TRYING.
3) you didn't actually rebut any of my proven claims. You just showed a scan that shows iron fist not hitting at his full.
4) I never said he hit as hard as a nuke. I only said he tanked nuke level explosives. Please stop making things up
If you would like a scan of iron fist using his real power on a helicarier, then please just ask. I can provide it easily as well as him trashing a ship with his chi.
Your argument is so far below ridiculous that it's not even funny. You're trying to debate something clearly stated in a scan, which is clear desperation of any foothold on an argument against my claims.
As far as Davos, look at wyldsong's post.
1) And ?
2) They had a fight so this point is mute.
3) "Not hitting at his full" doesn't drop the durability. You proved nothing, none of your claims were supported by the scans that you provided.
4) You are implying that even a nuke can't harm him so Spider-man can't harm him too.
You're not in position to judge my claim, this scan proved your claim erroneous and misleading.
I will repeat my question once more:
You said that Danny is durable to the point to tank nukes which means that everything with a damage soak below it wouldn't affect him.
Is Danny durable to the point to shrugging off nukes or your claim is erroneous ?
Right here is a classic example of how Spider-Man fangirls just love making baseless claims to defend spidey.
"Spider-Man fangirls".
I'm sure that a lot of people are feeling offended by this childish claim.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that some of these accounts are the same person. The incorrect spelling and overall idiotic statements are consistent.
Do you have anything to support this ?
Scans ?
@mr-luxcipher: I never, ever exaggerated any of Fist's abilities. He did in fact one shot a helicarier out of the sky and he did tank a train with nuke level explosives with chi. Nothing was exaggerated.
...
@bourbonzedrunk: I want you to quote me when I said "Captain America hit harder than a nuke". Like you claimed I did. Or did you mean Iron fist? In both scenarios, that scan is inapplicable.
Quoting you from above "He did tank a train with nuke-level explosives with chi".
You blatantly said that even a nuke can't harm him, implying that anything below that can't harm him.
Are Cap' punches more destructive than a nuke or do you yield and retract your claim ?
@visemoon:
*sigh*
Someone already tried that one genius. Iron fist himself said "I held my own against him, but Spider man is more dangerous than he looks". That either meant he tied or won against Spider-Man.
It was Power Man or whoever that was who interpreted it as fist not being able to beat spidey. Iron fist himself didnt admit to it: which means that scan is inapplicable here.
The last posts proved you wrong about it.
Here are some things I found that I can back up:
As immortal iron fist, his iron fist did visible damage on a hulk.
Skaar isn't even close to be as strong as his father.
Iron fist has hearing comparable to daredevil. Maybe not quite the same, but comparable.
No.
In addition to a helicarier, the iron fist has taken out a ship
2) when did I mention Cap? How is he even remotely related to a spiderman vs iron fist battle?
3) "3) "Not hitting at his full" doesn't drop the durability. You proved nothing, none of your claims were supported by the scans that you provided."
Huh? That is literally the most confusing thing I've heard all day.
4) "you blatantly said that even a nuke can't harm him"
*nearly dies laughing.
Buddy, buddy, buddy... I said he TANKED a nuke. I NEVER said it didn't harm him. Don't make things up now.
5) "You are implying that even a nuke can't harm him so Spider-man can't harm him too."
Never said that either. You're running out of things to say aren't you?
6) "Are Cap' punches more destructive than a nuke or do you yield and retract your claim ?"
Huh? When did I say that?
OHHHH! You thought the nuke didn't affect fist huh? I only said he tanked a nuke, which is true. Again, you're making things up now. Quit lying
7)"The last posts proved you wrong about it."
Incorrect yet again. I actually proved how that scan didn't actually show Iron Fist explicitly admitting to losing to spidey.
8) "Skaar isn't even close to be as strong as his father."
Never said he was. However, the fact that it damaged Skarr is impressive all on its own.
9) go back to my scan where I showed iron fist's upgrade. He was able to tell who someone was based on hearing the sweat running down someone's face. What do you call that?
10) the relevancy of telling the power behind a nothing held back iron fist is to tell what would happen to spidey. One punch took out a ship and a helicarier.
You really don't belong on these kind of debates, bud. Half of your claims don't make sense and the other half is just stupid. Honestly, DONT RESPOND. You clearly lack critical thinking skills, which is why you make idiotic assumptions on what I say. You have ignored many a question Where I asked you to quote something you claimed I said.
Please, just don't respond. You're killing spidey' reputation as a fighter...
2) when did I mention Cap? How is he even remotely related to a spiderman vs iron fist battle?
You are avoiding the question:
Does Captain America's punches have more destructive capacity than a nuke ?
Answer the question instead of dodging like a coward.
3) "3) "Not hitting at his full" doesn't drop the durability. You proved nothing, none of your claims were supported by the scans that you provided."
Huh? That is literally the most confusing thing I've heard all day.
Yeah, so confusing.
Answer the question above.
4) "you blatantly said that even a nuke can't harm him"
*nearly dies laughing.
Buddy, buddy, buddy... I said he TANKED a nuke. I NEVER said it didn't harm him. Don't make things up now.
You really like to redefine your claims on fly, don't you ?
Stop avoiding to answer the question, you are clearly saying that nothing but something more powerful than a nuke can harm Iron Fist which is ridiculous.
5) "You are implying that even a nuke can't harm him so Spider-man can't harm him too."
Never said that either. You're running out of things to say aren't you?
So what's your point ?
6) "Are Cap' punches more destructive than a nuke or do you yield and retract your claim ?"
Huh? When did I say that?
OHHHH! You thought the nuke didn't affect fist huh? I only said he tanked a nuke, which is true. Again, you're making things up now. Quit lying
You are grasping at straws.
You are redefining your claim on the spot from "Nukes don't do anything to Iron Fist" to "Nukes barely harm Iron Fist" which is exactly the same claim.
7)"The last posts proved you wrong about it."
Incorrect yet again. I actually proved how that scan didn't actually show Iron Fist explicitly admitting to losing to spidey.
Iron Fist explicitely admitted that he can't beat Spidey and knowing Spidey he always hold back.
8) "Skaar isn't even close to be as strong as his father."
Never said he was. However, the fact that it damaged Skarr is impressive all on its own.
You avoided to mention it was Skaar to make the feat looks more impressive.
9) go back to my scan where I showed iron fist's upgrade. He was able to tell who someone was based on hearing the sweat running down someone's face. What do you call that?
That's supposed to be as good as what Daredevil do on daily basis ?
10) the relevancy of telling the power behind a nothing held back iron fist is to tell what would happen to spidey.
The purpose of the "Iron Fist" is to enhance Danny's striking power which means that he isn't holding back.
Spidey was briefly dazzled by Davos' own Chi-enhanced strike, which means that punch doesn't instantly KO everyone.
One punch took out a ship and a helicarier.
Relevancy of this ?
You really don't belong on these kind of debates, bud. Half of your claims don't make sense and the other half is just stupid.
I asked you to elaborate your own claims which you dodged every time.
Will you answer this time or will you constantly avoid responding ?
Honestly, DONT RESPOND.
I do what I want if you are incapable to justify your claims AKA debate with people it doesn't make sense to come in a Battle Forumand cry all out to avoid justifying your claims.
I guess that's what us, "Spider-man Fangirsl" ( LOL ;) ) are calling a debate.
You clearly lack critical thinking skills,
You are the one whom made the claim that Iron Fist tanked a nuke when I and many others in this thread told you that's hyperbolic.
You avoided responding when people asked you
"Why are the people around Iron Fist unharmed if the explosion was more powerful than a Nuke ?"
You said yourself that you believed that the explosion made "Hiroshima looks like a sparkler".
"In both cities the blast totally destroyed everything within a radius of 1 mile from the center of explosion, except for certain reinforced concrete frames as noted above. The atomic explosion almost completely destroyed Hiroshima's identity as a city. Over a fourth of the population was killed in one stroke and an additional fourth seriously injured, so that even if there had been no damage to structures and installations the normal city life would still have been completely shattered. Nearly everything was heavily damaged up to a radius of 3 miles from the blast, and beyond this distance damage, although comparatively light, extended for several more miles. Glass was broken up to 12 miles."
*The bomb disintegrated everything in a radius of 1 mile and, according to the statement you made, Iron Fist shrugged off an explosion far more powerful than that.*
"After being selected in April 1945, Hiroshima was spared conventional bombing to serve as a pristine target, where the effects of a nuclear bomb on an undamaged city could be observed.[41] While damage could be studied later, the energy yield of the untested Little Boy design could be determined only at the moment of detonation, using instruments dropped by parachute from a plane flying in formation with the one that dropped the bomb. Radio-transmitted data from these instruments indicated a yield of about 15 kilotons.[37]
Comparing this yield to the observed damage produced a rule of thumb called the 5 psi lethal area rule. Approximately 100% of people inside the area where the shock wave carries an overpressure of 5 psi or greater would be killed.[42] At Hiroshima, that area was 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) in diameter.[43]
The damage came from three main effects: blast, fire, and radiation.[44]"
*100% of people in an area of 3,5 kilometres in diameter subissed a pressure of 5 psi*
More about the effect of the bomb:
Blast
The blast from a nuclear bomb is the result of X-ray-heated air (the fireball) sending a shock wave or pressure wave in all directions, initially at a velocity greater than the speed of sound,[45] analogous to thunder generated by lightning. Knowledge about urban blast destruction is based largely on studies of Little Boy at Hiroshima. Nagasaki buildings suffered similar damage at similar distances, but the Nagasaki bomb detonated 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) from the city center over hilly terrain that was partially bare of buildings.[46]
Frame house in 1953 nuclear test, 5 psi overpressure
In Hiroshima almost everything within 1.6 kilometres (1.0 mi) of the point directly under the explosion was completely destroyed, except for about 50 heavily reinforced, earthquake-resistant concrete buildings, only the shells of which remained standing. Most were completely gutted, with their windows, doors, sashes, and frames ripped out.[47] The perimeter of severe blast damage approximately followed the 5 psi (34 kPa) contour at 1.8 kilometres (1.1 mi).
Later test explosions of nuclear weapons with houses and other test structures nearby confirmed the 5 psi overpressure threshold. Ordinary urban buildings experiencing it will be crushed, toppled, or gutted by the force of air pressure. The picture at right shows the effects of a nuclear-bomb-generated 5 psi pressure wave on a test structure in Nevada in 1953.[48]
A major effect of this kind of structural damage was that it created fuel for fires that were started simultaneously throughout the severe destruction region.
Fire
The first effect of the explosion was blinding light, accompanied by radiant heat from the fireball. The Hiroshima fireball was 370 metres (1,200 ft) in diameter, with a surface temperature of 6,000 °C (10,830 °F).[49] Near ground zero, everything flammable burst into flame. One famous, anonymous Hiroshima victim, sitting on stone steps 260 metres (850 ft) from the hypocenter, left only a shadow, having absorbed the fireball heat that permanently bleached the surrounding stone.[50] Simultaneous fires were started throughout the blast-damaged area by fireball heat and by overturned stoves and furnaces, electrical shorts, etc. Twenty minutes after the detonation, these fires had merged into a firestorm, pulling in surface air from all directions to feed an inferno which consumed everything flammable.[51]
Hiroshima blast and fire damage, U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey map
The Hiroshima firestorm was roughly 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) in diameter, corresponding closely to the severe blast damage zone. (See the USSBS[52] map, right.) Blast-damaged buildings provided fuel for the fire. Structural lumber and furniture were splintered and scattered about. Debris-choked roads obstructed fire fighters. Broken gas pipes fueled the fire, and broken water pipes rendered hydrants useless.[51] At Nagasaki, the fires failed to merge into a single firestorm, and the fire-damaged area was only one fourth as great as at Hiroshima, due in part to a southwest wind that pushed the fires away from the city.[53]
As the map shows, the Hiroshima firestorm jumped natural firebreaks (river channels), as well as prepared firebreaks. The spread of fire stopped only when it reached the edge of the blast-damaged area, encountering less available fuel.[54]
Accurate casualty figures are impossible to determine, because many victims were cremated by the firestorm, along with all record of their existence. The Manhattan Project report on Hiroshima estimated that 60% of immediate deaths were caused by fire, but with the caveat that "many persons near the center of explosion suffered fatal injuries from more than one of the bomb effects."[55] In particular, many fire victims also received lethal doses of nuclear radiation.
Radiation
Local fallout is dust and ash from a bomb crater, contaminated with radioactive fission products. It falls to earth downwind of the crater and can produce, with radiation alone, a lethal area much larger than that from blast and fire. With an air burst, the fission products rise into the stratosphere, where they dissipate and become part of the global environment. Because Little Boy was an air burst 580 metres (1,900 ft) above the ground, there was no bomb crater and no local radioactive fallout.[56]
However, a burst of intense neutron and gamma radiation came directly from the fireball. Its lethal radius was 1.3 kilometres (0.8 mi),[43] covering about half of the firestorm area. An estimated 30% of immediate fatalities were people who received lethal doses of this direct radiation, but died in the firestorm before their radiation injuries would have become apparent. Over 6,000 people survived the blast and fire, but died of radiation injuries.[55] Among injured survivors, 30% had radiation injuries[57] from which they recovered, but with a lifelong increase in cancer risk.[58] To date, no radiation-related evidence of heritable diseases has been observed among the survivors' children.[59][60][61]
Although Little Boy exploded with the energy equivalent of 16,000 tons of TNT, the Strategic Bombing Survey estimated that the same blast and fire effect could have been caused by 2,100 tons of conventional bombs: "220 B-29s carrying 1,200 tons of incendiary bombs, 400 tons of high-explosive bombs, and 500 tons of anti-personnelfragmentation bombs."[62] Since the target was spread across a two-dimensional plane, the vertical component of a single spherical nuclear explosion was largely wasted. A cluster bomb pattern of smaller explosions would have been a more energy-efficient match to the target.[62]
Do you maintain your statement that Iron Fist tanked / shrugged off a bomb more powerful than Hiroshima ?
Now explain:
Why the Immortal Weapons and the Hydra's mooks near the explosion were totally unharmed too ?
Why the radius of the explosion was just around a few meters ?
Why Daniel Rand keeps being harmed by attacks far less powerful than a Nuke ?
Good luck proving that when your premises are all falses. ;)
which is why you make idiotic assumptions on what I say. You have ignored many a question Where I asked you to quote something you claimed I said.
Stop paraphrasing yourself, you are just one more time searching excuses to avoid responding to my questions.
Please, just don't respond.
I gave you a task to do.
I'm waiting for your replies and if you avoid it one more or try to change the topic it will be clear that you can't back-up your claims.
@visemoon: and you? You failed to provide a rebuttal to my last post to you. You lost.
Nuke level debate eh? In that case, I am iron fist level. I can take nukes without a problem.
There is nothing to rebut. You are the only one here who is unable to comprehend that Danny admitted he was unable to beat Peter. Even @jashro44(one of the most political people on this board) Tried to explain it to you and you still (or choose not) to grasp it
The question that was asked by Vic was which super hero did iron fist fight and couldn't defeat:
Danny than responded talking about spider-man:
If was able to beat spider-man in there fights why would he tell Vic this? You could argue Danny said he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past and never said he couldn't beat spider-man however. I think that would be fair.
Again I agree which is why I said you can argue Danny never said he couldn't beat spider-man. However I still think its significant that he says that he wasn't able to beat spider-man in the past.
Jash even tried to give you away out, but you're still not getting it. I tried to explain it to you and you're still not getting it. and @heatblaze123 (the 1st to post the scan) tried and you didn't grasp it. The bottom line is...Fist was UNABLE to beat Spider-Man in the past. This is fact!
Vic Asked:
And Fist responded:
And Danny was 100% correct, because the 2 times they fought he wasn't able to beat. In fact, Peter was at the advantage at the end of both fights.
"In both cities the blast totally destroyed everything within a radius of 1 mile from the center of explosion, except for certain reinforced concrete frames as noted above. The atomic explosion almost completely destroyed Hiroshima's identity as a city. Over a fourth of the population was killed in one stroke and an additional fourth seriously injured, so that even if there had been no damage to structures and installations the normal city life would still have been completely shattered. Nearly everything was heavily damaged up to a radius of 3 miles from the blast, and beyond this distance damage, although comparatively light, extended for several more miles. Glass was broken up to 12 miles."
*The bomb disintegrated everything in a radius of 1 mile and, according to the statement you made, Iron Fist shrugged off an explosion far more powerful than that.*
"After being selected in April 1945, Hiroshima was spared conventional bombing to serve as a pristine target, where the effects of a nuclear bomb on an undamaged city could be observed.[41] While damage could be studied later, the energy yield of the untested Little Boy design could be determined only at the moment of detonation, using instruments dropped by parachute from a plane flying in formation with the one that dropped the bomb. Radio-transmitted data from these instruments indicated a yield of about 15 kilotons.[37]
Comparing this yield to the observed damage produced a rule of thumb called the 5 psi lethal area rule. Approximately 100% of people inside the area where the shock wave carries an overpressure of 5 psi or greater would be killed.[42] At Hiroshima, that area was 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) in diameter.[43]
The damage came from three main effects: blast, fire, and radiation.[44]"
*100% of people in an area of 3,5 kilometres in diameter subissed a pressure of 5 psi*
More about the effect of the bomb:
Blast
The blast from a nuclear bomb is the result of X-ray-heated air (the fireball) sending a shock wave or pressure wave in all directions, initially at a velocity greater than the speed of sound,[45] analogous to thunder generated by lightning. Knowledge about urban blast destruction is based largely on studies of Little Boy at Hiroshima. Nagasaki buildings suffered similar damage at similar distances, but the Nagasaki bomb detonated 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) from the city center over hilly terrain that was partially bare of buildings.[46]
Frame house in 1953 nuclear test, 5 psi overpressure
In Hiroshima almost everything within 1.6 kilometres (1.0 mi) of the point directly under the explosion was completely destroyed, except for about 50 heavily reinforced, earthquake-resistant concrete buildings, only the shells of which remained standing. Most were completely gutted, with their windows, doors, sashes, and frames ripped out.[47] The perimeter of severe blast damage approximately followed the 5 psi (34 kPa) contour at 1.8 kilometres (1.1 mi).
Later test explosions of nuclear weapons with houses and other test structures nearby confirmed the 5 psi overpressure threshold. Ordinary urban buildings experiencing it will be crushed, toppled, or gutted by the force of air pressure. The picture at right shows the effects of a nuclear-bomb-generated 5 psi pressure wave on a test structure in Nevada in 1953.[48]
A major effect of this kind of structural damage was that it created fuel for fires that were started simultaneously throughout the severe destruction region.
Fire
The first effect of the explosion was blinding light, accompanied by radiant heat from the fireball. The Hiroshima fireball was 370 metres (1,200 ft) in diameter, with a surface temperature of 6,000 °C (10,830 °F).[49] Near ground zero, everything flammable burst into flame. One famous, anonymous Hiroshima victim, sitting on stone steps 260 metres (850 ft) from the hypocenter, left only a shadow, having absorbed the fireball heat that permanently bleached the surrounding stone.[50] Simultaneous fires were started throughout the blast-damaged area by fireball heat and by overturned stoves and furnaces, electrical shorts, etc. Twenty minutes after the detonation, these fires had merged into a firestorm, pulling in surface air from all directions to feed an inferno which consumed everything flammable.[51]
Hiroshima blast and fire damage, U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey map
The Hiroshima firestorm was roughly 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) in diameter, corresponding closely to the severe blast damage zone. (See the USSBS[52] map, right.) Blast-damaged buildings provided fuel for the fire. Structural lumber and furniture were splintered and scattered about. Debris-choked roads obstructed fire fighters. Broken gas pipes fueled the fire, and broken water pipes rendered hydrants useless.[51] At Nagasaki, the fires failed to merge into a single firestorm, and the fire-damaged area was only one fourth as great as at Hiroshima, due in part to a southwest wind that pushed the fires away from the city.[53]
As the map shows, the Hiroshima firestorm jumped natural firebreaks (river channels), as well as prepared firebreaks. The spread of fire stopped only when it reached the edge of the blast-damaged area, encountering less available fuel.[54]
Accurate casualty figures are impossible to determine, because many victims were cremated by the firestorm, along with all record of their existence. The Manhattan Project report on Hiroshima estimated that 60% of immediate deaths were caused by fire, but with the caveat that "many persons near the center of explosion suffered fatal injuries from more than one of the bomb effects."[55] In particular, many fire victims also received lethal doses of nuclear radiation.
Radiation
Local fallout is dust and ash from a bomb crater, contaminated with radioactive fission products. It falls to earth downwind of the crater and can produce, with radiation alone, a lethal area much larger than that from blast and fire. With an air burst, the fission products rise into the stratosphere, where they dissipate and become part of the global environment. Because Little Boy was an air burst 580 metres (1,900 ft) above the ground, there was no bomb crater and no local radioactive fallout.[56]
However, a burst of intense neutron and gamma radiation came directly from the fireball. Its lethal radius was 1.3 kilometres (0.8 mi),[43] covering about half of the firestorm area. An estimated 30% of immediate fatalities were people who received lethal doses of this direct radiation, but died in the firestorm before their radiation injuries would have become apparent. Over 6,000 people survived the blast and fire, but died of radiation injuries.[55] Among injured survivors, 30% had radiation injuries[57] from which they recovered, but with a lifelong increase in cancer risk.[58] To date, no radiation-related evidence of heritable diseases has been observed among the survivors' children.[59][60][61]
Although Little Boy exploded with the energy equivalent of 16,000 tons of TNT, the Strategic Bombing Survey estimated that the same blast and fire effect could have been caused by 2,100 tons of conventional bombs: "220 B-29s carrying 1,200 tons of incendiary bombs, 400 tons of high-explosive bombs, and 500 tons of anti-personnelfragmentation bombs."[62] Since the target was spread across a two-dimensional plane, the vertical component of a single spherical nuclear explosion was largely wasted. A cluster bomb pattern of smaller explosions would have been a more energy-efficient match to the target.[62]
Questions that you asked to me:
1) What do you have to say about Davos?
He never beat Spider-man.
He never did more than hurting him and Spidey never truly tried to fight him.
2) What do you have to say about Spidey's CLEAR admittance?
It's an admittance that he didn't know how strong Danny is.
Fact is that a simple headbutt throwed IF to the ground.
It's an admittance that it's not "bye bye Spider-man".
3) What do you have to say about the train?
I've already answered to this and you have to answer to the questions I've asked you.
@bourbonzedrunk: did you look at the scans? They show Iron fist taking nuke level punishment and getting back up clearly. Now you're making things up. LOOK AT THE SCANS. Notice how you didn't quote the link to the scans. I wonder why...
The headbutt? Okay, a simple kick knocked spidey down as well. Also, that was before Iron fist's insane upgrade.
I wouldn't be surprised if Danny could burn through Peter's webs. So I'll go Danny. He's the new Spider-Man of superpowers, clearly. Anyone who denies that is blind.
4) Because Danny only uses a fraction of his true power. If he uses his full power every single time he fights, this would be what his punches look like:
AND that brings us to 5) He attacked the top of the carrier. Go question marvel because I don't write these comics. All I know is that he destroyed it.
OH you did? That explains a lot. It explains why you want to use weaker versions of iron fist who isn't using anything close to his full power as basis for your already weak argument.
Answer the question above.
4) "you blatantly said that even a nuke can't harm him"
*nearly dies laughing.
Buddy, buddy, buddy... I said he TANKED a nuke. I NEVER said it didn't harm him. Don't make things up now.
You really like to redefine your claims on fly, don't you ?
Stop avoiding to answer the question, you are clearly saying that nothing but something more powerful than a nuke can harm Iron Fist which is ridiculous.
Hmm, well, Iron fist did tank a nuke with no problem. It's how he stood up intact and all after he absorbed the explosion. My bad, I actually underestimated iron fist myself. I originally said tank, which means endure, but I guess he did Which, that doesn't help your case.
You clearly lack critical thinking skills,
You are the one whom made the claim that Iron Fist tanked a nuke when I and many others in this thread told you that's hyperbolic.
"In both cities the blast totally destroyed everything within a radius of 1 mile from the center of explosion, except for certain reinforced concrete frames as noted above. The atomic explosion almost completely destroyed Hiroshima's identity as a city. Over a fourth of the population was killed in one stroke and an additional fourth seriously injured, so that even if there had been no damage to structures and installations the normal city life would still have been completely shattered. Nearly everything was heavily damaged up to a radius of 3 miles from the blast, and beyond this distance damage, although comparatively light, extended for several more miles. Glass was broken up to 12 miles."
*The bomb disintegrated everything in a radius of 1 mile and, according to the statement you made, Iron Fist shrugged off an explosion far more powerful than that.*
"After being selected in April 1945, Hiroshima was spared conventional bombing to serve as a pristine target, where the effects of a nuclear bomb on an undamaged city could be observed.[41] While damage could be studied later, the energy yield of the untested Little Boy design could be determined only at the moment of detonation, using instruments dropped by parachute from a plane flying in formation with the one that dropped the bomb. Radio-transmitted data from these instruments indicated a yield of about 15 kilotons.[37]
Comparing this yield to the observed damage produced a rule of thumb called the 5 psi lethal area rule. Approximately 100% of people inside the area where the shock wave carries an overpressure of 5 psi or greater would be killed.[42] At Hiroshima, that area was 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) in diameter.[43]
The damage came from three main effects: blast, fire, and radiation.[44]"
*100% of people in an area of 3,5 kilometres in diameter subissed a pressure of 5 psi*
More about the effect of the bomb:
Blast
The blast from a nuclear bomb is the result of X-ray-heated air (the fireball) sending a shock wave or pressure wave in all directions, initially at a velocity greater than the speed of sound,[45] analogous to thunder generated by lightning. Knowledge about urban blast destruction is based largely on studies of Little Boy at Hiroshima. Nagasaki buildings suffered similar damage at similar distances, but the Nagasaki bomb detonated 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) from the city center over hilly terrain that was partially bare of buildings.[46]
Frame house in 1953 nuclear test, 5 psi overpressure
In Hiroshima almost everything within 1.6 kilometres (1.0 mi) of the point directly under the explosion was completely destroyed, except for about 50 heavily reinforced, earthquake-resistant concrete buildings, only the shells of which remained standing. Most were completely gutted, with their windows, doors, sashes, and frames ripped out.[47] The perimeter of severe blast damage approximately followed the 5 psi (34 kPa) contour at 1.8 kilometres (1.1 mi).
Later test explosions of nuclear weapons with houses and other test structures nearby confirmed the 5 psi overpressure threshold. Ordinary urban buildings experiencing it will be crushed, toppled, or gutted by the force of air pressure. The picture at right shows the effects of a nuclear-bomb-generated 5 psi pressure wave on a test structure in Nevada in 1953.[48]
A major effect of this kind of structural damage was that it created fuel for fires that were started simultaneously throughout the severe destruction region.
Fire
The first effect of the explosion was blinding light, accompanied by radiant heat from the fireball. The Hiroshima fireball was 370 metres (1,200 ft) in diameter, with a surface temperature of 6,000 °C (10,830 °F).[49] Near ground zero, everything flammable burst into flame. One famous, anonymous Hiroshima victim, sitting on stone steps 260 metres (850 ft) from the hypocenter, left only a shadow, having absorbed the fireball heat that permanently bleached the surrounding stone.[50] Simultaneous fires were started throughout the blast-damaged area by fireball heat and by overturned stoves and furnaces, electrical shorts, etc. Twenty minutes after the detonation, these fires had merged into a firestorm, pulling in surface air from all directions to feed an inferno which consumed everything flammable.[51]
Hiroshima blast and fire damage, U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey map
The Hiroshima firestorm was roughly 3.2 kilometres (2.0 mi) in diameter, corresponding closely to the severe blast damage zone. (See the USSBS[52] map, right.) Blast-damaged buildings provided fuel for the fire. Structural lumber and furniture were splintered and scattered about. Debris-choked roads obstructed fire fighters. Broken gas pipes fueled the fire, and broken water pipes rendered hydrants useless.[51] At Nagasaki, the fires failed to merge into a single firestorm, and the fire-damaged area was only one fourth as great as at Hiroshima, due in part to a southwest wind that pushed the fires away from the city.[53]
As the map shows, the Hiroshima firestorm jumped natural firebreaks (river channels), as well as prepared firebreaks. The spread of fire stopped only when it reached the edge of the blast-damaged area, encountering less available fuel.[54]
Accurate casualty figures are impossible to determine, because many victims were cremated by the firestorm, along with all record of their existence. The Manhattan Project report on Hiroshima estimated that 60% of immediate deaths were caused by fire, but with the caveat that "many persons near the center of explosion suffered fatal injuries from more than one of the bomb effects."[55] In particular, many fire victims also received lethal doses of nuclear radiation.
Radiation
Local fallout is dust and ash from a bomb crater, contaminated with radioactive fission products. It falls to earth downwind of the crater and can produce, with radiation alone, a lethal area much larger than that from blast and fire. With an air burst, the fission products rise into the stratosphere, where they dissipate and become part of the global environment. Because Little Boy was an air burst 580 metres (1,900 ft) above the ground, there was no bomb crater and no local radioactive fallout.[56]
However, a burst of intense neutron and gamma radiation came directly from the fireball. Its lethal radius was 1.3 kilometres (0.8 mi),[43] covering about half of the firestorm area. An estimated 30% of immediate fatalities were people who received lethal doses of this direct radiation, but died in the firestorm before their radiation injuries would have become apparent. Over 6,000 people survived the blast and fire, but died of radiation injuries.[55] Among injured survivors, 30% had radiation injuries[57] from which they recovered, but with a lifelong increase in cancer risk.[58] To date, no radiation-related evidence of heritable diseases has been observed among the survivors' children.[59][60][61]
Although Little Boy exploded with the energy equivalent of 16,000 tons of TNT, the Strategic Bombing Survey estimated that the same blast and fire effect could have been caused by 2,100 tons of conventional bombs: "220 B-29s carrying 1,200 tons of incendiary bombs, 400 tons of high-explosive bombs, and 500 tons of anti-personnelfragmentation bombs."[62] Since the target was spread across a two-dimensional plane, the vertical component of a single spherical nuclear explosion was largely wasted. A cluster bomb pattern of smaller explosions would have been a more energy-efficient match to the target.[62]
Thats nice. Iron Fist still took the blast and got right back up. Immortal Iron fist FTW. Also, wikipedia? really?
@heatblaze123: that's it huh? Still can't find a rebuttal for Davos, the nuke level explosives, or the helicarier feat eh?
Oh well, what can I say? Your whole argument was whack from the start.
Can you piss off? Your Davos doesn't have Spider-Man fighting him whatsoever, he's not even in your post. Danny's durability isn't nuke level, that's bloody stupid, nothing supports this at all, he's been harmed and knocked out by less, and he couldn't even beat BP while he was bloodlusted. The helicarrier isn't going to change the dynamic of the fight.
I am not going to sit here and argue this with either of you, because I really have no desire to go back and see what level Danny was at skill/power wise at the time this thread was made, but I want to clarify a few things. Danny can absorb energy, which would help explain how he survived the train full of explosives that would make Hiroshima look like a sparkler, so it is not exactly a durability feat per se (Danny had the Shou Lao chi to help protect from the actual train itself with his Iron Fist attack), but in modern times Danny has gotten back up to continue the fight after he was punched through half a dozen floors in a building. As for Davos versus Spidey, Davos did in fact beat Spidey, with battles in Marvel Team Up volume 1, numbers 64 and 65.
Hopefully that helps to clarify some things.
Here is Iron Fist beating up Davos while Davos was in possession of Fist's powers. THIS means that Iron fist relied on skill alone. And yes, that was the same Davos and the Same fist.
2) THAT was a clear admittance. Here. I'll post it again:
Spider man said: "With any luck, he'll have a glass jaw--but if he doesn't, it's bye bye Spider Man".
Jash even tried to give you away out, but you're still not getting it. I tried to explain it to you and you're still not getting it. and @heatblaze123 (the 1st to post the scan) tried and you didn't grasp it. The bottom line is...Fist was UNABLE to beat Spider-Man in the past. This is fact!
Vic Asked:
And Fist responded:
And Danny was 100% correct, because the 2 times they fought he wasn't able to beat. In fact, Peter was at the advantage at the end of both fights.
Yes, Fist responded with this: "I held my own against him, but Spider Man is more dangerous than he looks."
Definition of holding your own: "retain a position of strength in a challenging situation."
I'm not saying Iron Fist won or lost, but this doesn't necessarily mean that Fist lost. Unless you actually have the battle scans, nothing can be made definite.
Here are both fights (both of which BTW had a much weaker fist and fist was holding back a lot):
This is there first fight. Its pretty even all though it started because spider-man fell on top of Danny, which causes Danny to get very angry (threatening spider-man that he will kill him) and peter doesn't want to fight. The fight ends when Peter webs Danny up and explains the situation, all though Danny breaks out of the webbing. We know he was held down for a few minutes but its unclear if Danny could have escaped earlier (we know he wasn't listening to spider-man up until that point)
In this fight iron fist has the benefit of the home field advantage, traps, and also exploits there friendship to cheap shot spider-man. Peter starts pounding on him at the end. I think spider-man did clearly have the advantage here.
Now both characters have changed a lot since this fight. Danny has studied the book of iron fist and Peter has his way of the spider training.
That first fight, Iron fist didn't use chi except when he broke out of the webs, and that was a MINUSCULE percentage of his chi. He himself even admitted he shouldn't have gotten mad and thus stopped fighting. That shouldn't even be here
As for the second fight, Iron fist delivered MUCH harder blows to Spider man. What is also impressive is the fact that he can successfully hide from Spiderman and even get an iron fist on him before he can react with the spider sense. They both got an even number of blows on each other, so I consider this a tie. It still shouldn't be here because, that was a much weaker fist.
I'm not even going to bother wasting my time pointing out all your other flaws. I've proven my point, and Iron fist Stomps.
Yes, Fist responded with this: "I held my own against him, but Spider Man is more dangerous than he looks."
Definition of holding your own: "retain a position of strength in a challenging situation."
I'm not saying Iron Fist won or lost, but this doesn't necessarily mean that Fist lost. Unless you actually have the battle scans, nothing can be made definite.
Who said Fist lost? NO one here said Fist Lost. Not trying to be rude, but are you even paying attention and reading what people are writing? He admitted he was unable to beat Spider-Man in the past...FACT!!!
Here are both fights (both of which BTW had a much weaker fist and fist was holding back a lot)
Spider-Man ALYWAYS hold back against people under his powerset. You're not proving anything that weak statement
That first fight, Iron fist didn't use chi except when he broke out of the webs, and that was a MINUSCULE percentage of his chi. He himself even admitted he shouldn't have gotten mad and thus stopped fighting. That shouldn't even be here
So? Is this suppose to mean anything? He was MAD and was the AGGRESSOR and said he was going to KILL Spider-Man. And did he beat Spider-Man?...NOPE!. In fact he was webbed up for a couple of minutes and Peter had the advantage at the end of the fight. Heck some people would argue that he won, because technically incapacitation is a win according to board rules.
As for the second fight, Iron fist delivered MUCH harder blows to Spider man. What is also impressive is the fact that he can successfully hide from Spiderman and even get an iron fist on him before he can react with the spider sense. They both got an even number of blows on each other, so I consider this a tie. It still shouldn't be here because, that was a much weaker fist.
Yep, and that's another fight he was unable to beat Spider-Man. In fact Peter had the advantage at the end of that fight as well
I'm not even going to bother wasting my time pointing out all your other flaws. I've proven my point, and Iron fist Stomps
LOL, only thing you have proven is your inability comprehend comics. You should spend your time learning the difference between hyperbole and fact. I'm pretty sure if someone told you "That man is cold as ice" or "That lady is smoking hot" or "that woman's smile is brighter than the sun" you would take them literally.
That first fight, Iron fist didn't use chi except when he broke out of the webs, and that was a MINUSCULE percentage of his chi. He himself even admitted he shouldn't have gotten mad and thus stopped fighting. That shouldn't even be here
Iron fist didn't spam chi because it taxes him (especially back than). Not sure what your point is about iron fist stating he shouldn't have gotten mad. That just makes the showing better for spider-man.
As for the second fight, Iron fist delivered MUCH harder blows to Spider man. What is also impressive is the fact that he can successfully hide from Spiderman and even get an iron fist on him before he can react with the spider sense. They both got an even number of blows on each other, so I consider this a tie. It still shouldn't be here because, that was a much weaker fist.
The only reason he did from Peter's spider-sense is because it was busy warning him about the trap, we saw Danny can't hide himself from Peter's spider-sense when Peter dodged him in the dark. If Peter didn't have to worry about those traps Danny wouldn't have landed that hit and his ability to blend into his surroundings would have been irrelevant. So no stealth wouldn't normally be a factor. Danny landed his hits through cheap shots and by exploiting traps. He wouldn't have landed those hits otherwise.
Considering they got an even number of hits and iron fist had a bunch of advantages he wouldn't normally have should tell you something. As for iron fist being weaker spider-man has also improved since that showing.
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