Iron Fist vs. Spider-man

@bobthebag: like?

Spidey wins

Pete was enhanced by the Other in Back in Black. He was basically faster and stronger than normal, with organic webbing and a few other enhancements.

@wyldsong: well, I didn't know that. So, I retract my earlier claim to saying that Iron fist has the edge. IMO a healing factor is powerful against Spidey. Also, Fist can amplify chi attacks to huge volumes, making them kinda hard to dodge.

Iron fist no slaughter, but he wins after a decent fight. However, using fights where neither character was bloodlusted and in their classic version (cough! Vice moon cough!) is stupid. I can tell you right now iron fist is hella terrifying when he's bloodlusted, while in character he's cap's level or maybe punisher or Winter Soldier (with no chi).

NEW POSITION; Iron fist wins but no stomp.

Nothing changed, Iron Fist is leagues below Spider-man physically.

Peak human when summoning his Chi, without he don't even reach Captain America's level. Too bad.

@johnmiltonch: IF is above peak human. His feats outpace any handbook entries that place him at "peak human".

Not saying this in a mean or argumentative manner, but you don't have to tell me about IF=)

I've used him in several CaVs and have argued for him more times than I can count on these forums=)

Nope.

His striking power is superior, when using the Iron Fist, to the peak humans but by feats he is clearly a peak human when summoning his Chi.

However he is slightly more durable than most peak humans (stated as "enhanced regenerative" in the Marvel OHOTMU)

Spiderman

And again, you are relying on handbook entries. By feats, he has combat speeds and reflexes to match regular Spidey. He plays in the superhuman range in modern incarnations of the character. You don't catch a bullet basically before it can leave the barrel of a gun fired a few inches from the target's head (saving that target mind you), nor outpace an explosion you were point blank for while dragging someone else along, nor charge up the arm of a skyscraper sized god and deliver a killing punch before it can move that arm by being peak human.

I'm relying on both.

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are claiming him to be merely peak human. Also you are replying to me as if I argued him beating an Other enhanced Back in Black Pete. I already stated Back in Black Pete wins this, so don't confuse what I am saying and am discussing.

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are claiming him to be merely peak human.

I do rely on his actual feats.

Also you are replying to me as if I argued him beating an Other enhanced Back in Black Pete. I already stated Back in Black Pete wins this, so don't confuse what I am saying and am discussing.

I've never said that.

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are placing him at peak human. Danny isn't in the same playing field as he was in the 70's, 80's or even 90's. So if you are placing him at peak human, then you aren't relying on his actual feats, and taking into consideration the power creep he has had over the last several years.

As for what you "never said", you laid out a mini-dissertation on Pete's fighting style, and hand to hand. Now, maybe I read too much into it, although, reading again, it sounds like you are trying to place Pete's combat speed at "peak human", which is also laughable. And, it sounds like you believe Captain America to be "peak human", which is a common misconception, but he is above peak human, into the enhanced human range.

So, really, debate it how you see fit, but there are tons here that would disagree with what you are presenting. That being said, after what I have read today, think I am washing my hands of Marvel (comic wise), so I am dropping any defense of their characters. Back to 100% indie stuff for me.

I will be happy to answer every single questions you asked above, with supporting scans, once you answer the question I ask you earlier:

WRONG! Danny's chi would've absorbed the impact or regenerated him

Do you have the evidence to support this or did you just say that in the heat of the debate?

@wyldsong:

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are placing him at peak human. Danny isn't in the same playing field as he was in the 70's, 80's or even 90's. So if you are placing him at peak human, then you aren't relying on his actual feats, and taking into consideration the power creep he has had over the last several years.

Minus the striking power feats with the Iron Fist, there is nothing that Danny did physically that Captain America couldn't.

Danny received briefly Orson's Chi which was a temporary boost to counter Davos' own temporary enhanced via absorbing the Chi that the Crane Girls gave to him via their sacrifice.

Danny's skills enhanced but besides a better knowledge of the Iron Fist's abilities his physicals never enhanced the same way.

As for what you "never said", you laid out a mini-dissertation on Pete's fighting style, and hand to hand.

You pretended that I said that "I acted like you said that IF beat Pete" which I've never did.

That's clearly a strawman.

Now, maybe I read too much into it, although, reading again, it sounds like you are trying to place Pete's combat speed at "peak human", which is also laughable.

Nope.

I've never gave a designation like "X-speed" for Spider-man or other characters.

What I've said was:

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

That just shows that some street-levelers are faster than others by some percentage of speed, the same way that Ernesto Hoost is faster in combat than Jerome Lebanner.

And, it sounds like you believe Captain America to be "peak human", which is a common misconception, but he is above peak human, into the enhanced human range.

One of the definition of Marvel Peak Human is "significantly above average".

Marvel defines it as "superior to any Olympic athlete" which is clearly the case.

The point is that Captain is trained in many areas like running, swimming, fighting and acrobatics and the combination of everything allows him to do crazy feats.

@johnmiltonch: Yup, you are going to get into a lot of heated arguments with your ideas on who is peak human, which I find to be fairly inaccurate, but hey, I am done defending Marvel guys as I said in my last post, so have fun with it.

Here, I'll help you get into it with someone on Iron Fist being "peak human"...@adam_taurus, this guy says IF is peak human. What do you think?

@jashro44, we have claims of Spider-Man having the equivalent of "peak human" combat speed, care to comment? @christianrapper@visemoon: You have each defended Pete. Any thoughts on the idea that Pete has peak human combat speeds, as according to @johnmiltonch?

That's Marvel point of view about it.

I've seen no reasons to disagree with them.

@jashro44, we have claims of Spider-Man having the equivalent of "peak human" combat speed, care to comment? @christianrapper@visemoon: You have each defended Pete. Any thoughts on the idea that Pete has peak human combat speeds, as according to @johnmiltonch?

I've never said that anyone has "peak human level speed"...

What I've said was:

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

That just shows that some street-levelers are faster than others by some percentage of speed, the same way that Ernesto Hoost is faster in combat than Jerome Lebanner.

It seems that Wyldsong is the King of Strawmans.

Poor debating.

@johnmiltonch: Not really, but I am not going to debate it anymore. I tagged a few guys that may or may not argue it out with you. Again, my caring for anything Marvel died today, so have fun with it=)

It seems that Wyldsong is the King of Strawmans.

Poor debating.

It seems you are throwing around the word strawman quite a bit, without a clue as to what you are talking about....

You tagged one guy whom pretends that Iron Fist can tank nukes. XD

I've never said that anyone has "peak human combat speed".

What I've said was:

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

That just shows that some street-levelers are faster than others by some percentage of speed, the same way that Ernesto Hoost is faster in combat than Jerome Lebanner.

For the third time, can't you read what I'm writing and is the use of strawmans your only way to argue ?

@johnmiltonch: You have already placed Danny at "peak human" with your entry post:

"Peak human when summoning his Chi, without he don't even reach Captain America's level. Too bad."

You lumped Captain America into the peak human arena very clearly there, because "peak human when summoning chi" and not reaching Captain America's level without chi...then, in hand to hand, Spidey isn't faster than other street levelers? You said that, you just quoted it to me, but her it is again:

"In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers"

There is no "strawman" being thrown here. Now, again, you are wrong in your assessment. You are making Spidey and a few others seem slower than they actually are. All your words, not mine. So for the third, fourth, fifth, sixth and how ever many other times you want to revisit this...you paint a picture of Spidey being equal speeds with other street levelers, and you have been the one throwing around the term "peak human". These are these kinds of lines your comparisons have drawn.

Take it as you like, and anyone that I tagged can take it as they like. You can laugh at whoever I tagged, and act in a bemused manner, but I simply tagged people who might be interested in debating your views.

So, kindly, let's drop this between you and I, and you can discuss with whomever feels like responding. Again, Marvel and me are now a no go. Too much PC crap and destruction of properties. They are no longer the "House of Ideas", but the "House of Overly PC Changes". So again, have fun with your discussion, and defend it against someone else, but you are the one throwing around the idea of "peak human" and Spidey not being faster than "any other street leveler"...which mainly consists of...peak humans. Enjoy yourself.

Where did I said that the physicals are related to the combat speed in any way ?

Please quote the part of my post where I've said it.

There is no "strawman" being thrown here.

That's completely a strawman.

You are attacking a version of my argumentory that you made-up yourself.

Now, again, you are wrong in your assessment. You are making Spidey and a few others seem slower than they actually are.

I don't.

You are clearly misunderstanding how the hand-to-hand works.

All your words, not mine.

Nope.

You rely on strawman. That's a poor debating option.

So for the third, fourth, fifth, sixth and how ever many other times you want to revisit this...you paint a picture of Spidey being equal speeds with other street levelers,

Which is the case, he can only avoid most attacks thanks to his Spider-sense which allows him to anticipate.

Spider-man's speed isn't that impressive in combat, not much than the other street-levelers.

and you have been the one throwing around the term "peak human".

Which is canonically used by Marvel, which you proved that you don't understand the meaning, which I've never used as a term to define the combat speed of the character.

So again, as you are trying to avoid this:

What I've said was:

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

That just shows that some street-levelers are faster than others by some percentage of speed, the same way that Ernesto Hoost is faster in combat than Jerome Lebanner.

Take it as you like, and anyone that I tagged can take it as they like. You can laugh at whoever I tagged, and act in a bemused manner, but I simply tagged people who might be interested in debating your views.

...

So, kindly, let's drop this between you and I, and you can discuss with whomever feels like responding. Again, Marvel and me are now a no go

It's up to you.

. Too much PC crap and destruction of properties. They are no longer the "House of Ideas", but the "House of Overly PC Changes". So again, have fun with your discussion, and defend it against someone else, but you are the one throwing around the idea of "peak human" and Spidey not being faster than "any other street leveler"...which mainly consists of...peak humans. Enjoy yourself.

Horrible logic...

Thor is superhuman in reflexes but still slower than Wolverine in combat because of their differences in skills.

You are deeply burrowing yourself in the strawman you made by attacking a position I've never took.

If anything all of that discussion shows that there is not a big difference in combat speed between the "athletes" and the "metahuman" beings.

Enjoy yourself.

@johnmiltonch:

You are deeply burrowing yourself in the strawman you made by attacking a position I've never took.

It's very clearly a position that you took. If you wish to try and backtrack now, then by all means, go ahead. There is no "burrowing" to be had, when there is no real argument here, excluding maybe the one you have built up in your own mind. Stop throwing around the term "peak human", and comparing Spidey's combat speeds to "most street levelers", and maybe you'll avoid such misunderstandings in the future. Seems I've struck a nerve with you=)

What part of this did you not get? I said I was done with the discussion, and I found you other partners, who may or may not being willing to discuss this further with you. You are like some obsessed, rabid little dog with a bone here. Struck a nerve indeed it seems. Let it go Elsa, just let it go.

It's very clearly a position that you took.

Go on more on your denial.

This is my original post in #304:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iron-fist-vs-spider-man-551198/?page=8#js-message-17369863

What I've said was:

Spidey combat style mostly consist in jumping on his opponent and hitting him, then moving away, rinse & repeat.

That's some basic hit and run tactic.

In hand to hand Spidey isn't faster than the other street-levelers, however his physicals greatly enhance his striking power at superhuman-levels.

His precog allows him to anticipate attacks he couldn't normally because of his lack of training in hand to hand.

That just shows that some street-levelers are faster than others by some percentage of speed, the same way that Ernesto Hoost is faster in combat than Jerome Lebanner.

The position you attacked was the one you made-up on #305

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iron-fist-vs-spider-man-551198/?page=8#js-message-17369872

#365 Edited by Wyldsong (7862 posts) - 1 hour, 59 minutes ago - Show Bio

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are claiming him to be merely peak human. Also you are replying to me as if I argued him beating an Other enhanced Back in Black Pete. I already stated Back in Black Pete wins this, so don't confuse what I am saying and am discussing.

And #367:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/iron-fist-vs-spider-man-551198/?page=8#js-message-17369908

#367 Edited by Wyldsong (7862 posts) - 1 hour, 47 minutes ago - Show Bio

You aren't relying on his actual feats if you are placing him at peak human. Danny isn't in the same playing field as he was in the 70's, 80's or even 90's. So if you are placing him at peak human, then you aren't relying on his actual feats, and taking into consideration the power creep he has had over the last several years.

As for what you "never said", you laid out a mini-dissertation on Pete's fighting style, and hand to hand. Now, maybe I read too much into it, although, reading again, it sounds like you are trying to place Pete's combat speed at "peak human", which is also laughable. And, it sounds like you believe Captain America to be "peak human", which is a common misconception, but he is above peak human, into the enhanced human range.

So, really, debate it how you see fit, but there are tons here that would disagree with what you are presenting. That being said, after what I have read today, think I am washing my hands of Marvel (comic wise), so I am dropping any defense of their characters. Back to 100% indie stuff for me.

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You attacked a position I've never taken via making-up your own version. That's a strawman.

If you wish to try and backtrack now, then by all means, go ahead.

There is nothing to backtrack. You are the one whom made a strawman, proof posted above.

There is no "burrowing" to be had, when there is no real argument here, excluding maybe the one you have built up in your own mind.

Yeah.

Look at the 3 posts above.

Stop throwing around the term "peak human", and comparing Spidey's combat speeds to "most street levelers", and maybe you'll avoid such misunderstandings in the future.

You misunderstood because you have actually no idea how the characters are fighting on panel. That's sad.

What part of this did you not get? I said I was done with the discussion, and I found you other partners, who may or may not being willing to discuss this further with you. You are like some obsessed, rabid little dog with a bone here. Struck a nerve indeed it seems. Let it go Elsa, just let it go.

Yeah try to poison the well now that you've failed covering your ass.

You was caught using some fallacies to make your poor argument looks better.

That's the mark of a poor debater.

@johnmiltonch: I've had all amounts of time to work and shower, had a beer, and relaxed a bit. I didn't read your wall of words, not really one little bit. This is said not to insult you, but seeing things in bold (didn't read, but the bold lettering is hard to miss scrolling down the page) leads me to believe we are perpetuating more of the same type of discussion. And I said "we", so now I am trying to break this little cycle. Somehow, somewhere, someway this turned into a he said, she said, they/it said, whatever kind of thing. Maybe my initial wording was a bit terse to begin with, maybe a misunderstanding is being blown out of proportion here, but you seem to be writing things in bold, which tells me a nerve was most definitely touched with you. I don't come to these forums to enter into frivolous little, whatever this has become. My intent was not to start an argument with you, or make you look like a fool or whatever it is you feel I was doing. I have a straight forward, matter of fact manner, which angers some people it seems. And then it wasn't tempered by my mood today, but at this point, it is neither here nor there.

So, if it was my wording that was initially a bit terse, and whatever, I apologize. Do I think you are wrong? Yes, that has not changed on the initial point. Your presentation led to everything thereafter, and if you didn't mean it as such, fine, I am not going to continue to argue it. I find your assessments of Pete's combat speeds being just as fast as every other street leveler to be off and wrong, and I find your assessment on Iron Fist being "peak human" with chi to be wrong. Those are the two key points of my disagreement, whether or not you specifically stated Pete was "peak human" in combat speeds (yes, you did not expressly state such)...which considering the majority of street levels play in the peak human arena, then you can see where such wording came from on my end. As stated, I am just not going to argue it ( a position I could most definitely defend, had I the inclination), because I am pissed at Marvel, and have no desire to defend their characters any longer. That is not a deflection nor distraction. You see, I initially responded on this thread, then got some new purchases for new comic day, read said purchases and was angered. Had I read those purchases prior to posting in this thread, I would not have bothered posting in this thread.

Agree to disagree, or not, and move on. Basically, I am not trying to piss off newbies with however many posts you have, nor older forumites on alternate accounts, whichever you happen to be, and I posted my later entries from a point of frustration, which is not meant to be directed at you, even if you felt like it was. I think you are wrong, and it as simple as that, but unless we are debating a character I care to defend, then I have nothing to prove here. This is me trying to bury the hatchet. If you choose to move on, great. If not, I don't know what to tell you, but posts that involve no real debate, and end up being a pissing match, hold no interest for me. It proves nothing, doesn't further discussion and knowledge of characters, and does not further the idea and art of debate. All we are doing, is derailing the thread, which is soon to get mod involvement if it continues on this path.

Sorry for the Elsa comment, and sorry if I was terse. I still think your assessments are off, and we can leave it at that. If there comes a discussion involving a character more to my liking, and you hold a similar idea of their stats and so on, we can have a similar discussion on it then, just with actual facts and scans, and less "pissy-ness". As is, let us reign in tempers, and go on about our day. If you feel Iron Fist is peak human, then by all means, feel free to go about defending that position here, but let's drop this little bit of unpleasantness, and move on.

@wyldsong:

Fine. You apologies are accepted. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Ps: I bold important sentences so people cannot miss them. This has nothing to do with any form of anger.

@johnmiltonch: dude spidey is way faster than most other street levelers. That's why he's being paired with Iron fist and not like Punisher or whatever.

@wyldsong: yeah ik. BTW I'm making an iron fist data thread. Could you please post a few things on it? (Yes I know it's been done before but it's really for my own uses)

@johnmiltonch: Look, we are good, there are no hard feelings=)

As much as my current distaste for Marvel wants me to say otherwise...I cannot withhold information. Drop me a link, and I'll look at it tomorrow.

@katanalauncher: Lol..

@wyldsong: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/iron-fist-database-1825651/

It's brand new. Fire away

When I get back home, I have some scans to post up. In the meantime, I do think Iron Fist wins.

@visemoon: yes, I can prove that the train was chi absorption. The nitro one could've been chi but looking back it should've been durability.

The first part is really depending how you look at it, but it all derrives from Newton's third law: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This meant that if Iron fist hit the train using his chi, he would've taken equally brutal force. I can provide scans that show Newton's third law being put in action, just to show that it exists in the Marvel world. Anyway, I did some math (tell me if you wish to see it) and just the head of the maglev train in the pic would weigh roughly 30 tonnes (yes, it could be heavier or lighter, but it's the average weight of maglev trains). I also assumed that the train was traveling at 300 km/hr (which is slightly less than half max speed of one of those things), just so that I don't get a message back saying that my math was out of context and hyperbolic. That's right, I'm purposely downscaling the train just to put things in my perspective.

Anyway, 30 tonnes is 30,000 KG, and 300 km/hr is about 83.3 m/s. 30,000 times 83.3 (Newton's second law, F=MA) is 2499000 Newton's, which is about 254-255 tones of force. Explain how Danny took that much force without the use of Chi absorption. Keep in mind, I'm not even factoring in the weight of the other cars (they weigh 30 tonnes each too). Math Really puts this into a different perspective now huh?

*cut and paste*

Iron fist could've broken out of the webbing immediately. He didn't do it right away because Spider man wasn't a foe.

And Peter could have caved Danny's head in with one punch....you know..since he got superhuman strength and all

WRONG! Danny's chi would've absorbed the impact or regenerated him

Do you have the evidence to support this or did you just say that in the heat of the debate?

*you posting scans that's not supporting your claims*

No...Fist allowed his chi to flow into the electro-magnetic field of the train. No where on the comic did is say he absorb anything. You are giving him abilities that he has never displayed. He is NOT Bishop...He is not Strong Guy. So let us stick to things that he has actually shown he could do and NOT your made up version. Your version does not exist

Do you have the evidence to support this or did you just say that in the heat of the debate?

*end cut and paste*

Ok, let's consider the train feat for a second here.

We know the explosives were enough to destroy K'un-Lun:

The reason Iron Fist merged his Chi with the electromagnetic fields was to propel him forward.

Now the explosion was quite large, but not enough to blow up K'un-Lun.

It's kind of hard to get a good perspective of the size of K'un-Lun, but this should do:

Keep in mind the explosion happened in free space without any buildings to absorb the kinetic force.

(Conclusion: Most of the kinetic force went into Danny. Though, even if we are to assume that Danny didn't absorb any of the kinetic energy into his Chi tanking an explosion of that magnitude while in the center of the explosion is still greater than a punch from Spider-Man.)

@algorhythm511:

The most logical conclusion is that Danny hasn't been touch by the explosion at all.

He has been through the structure of the train like a bullet, too fast to be caught inside it.

Danny has been propelled along a magnetic field like the bullet of a railgun which is far faster than a conventional bullet which fires projectiles at a speed over 5000 mph !

Danny was moving far faster than the train as he is clearly lighter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2094413/Rail-gun-US-Navy-takes-step-hi-tech-electromagnetic-weapon.html

That's why has been through the whole railroad and while we keep our eyes on the explosion, Danny is already on the other side, close to the bad guys, unharmed.

The physics aren't really that important here as it's a comic book and it is clear that Danny was meant to move very fast along the magnetic field.

Let's examine the positions of everyone.

Train initial position:

The train is initially positioned near the Hydra's mobs.

We see here how far the train is from the Dimensional Portal, there is hundreds of meters between them.

Here is the full size of the Dimensional Portal to show how large he is.

Just in case you want to see the full opening scene:

"Here is Danny !" He is on the other side of the Portal and far far away from the train and the Hydra's mobs.

Here is a zoom on both side and the initial positions of each camps.

Here is Danny final position. He swapped his initial position with the one of the train, avoiding to be caught in the explosion in the process.

Clarification:

Here are the positions that have been swapped. The explosion was far too weak to reach each side so it's not as powerful as a nuke.

Conclusion:

Danny was propelled along the electromagnetic-field like the bullet of a railgun, he was going too fast to be caught in the explosion and swapped his initial position with the one of the train.

Those are irrefutable facts.

@banjomanfu: He was going 5000 mph? Just asking (I'm not trying to argue or anything), but where did you get those calculations from?

In that third to last scan you posted, you can see Danny in a blazing heap of what looks like discarded train parts. That implies he took the explosion. However, even if he didn't, being slammed into a moving maglev train at those speeds (Danny was moving at least the speed of the maglev train, which means 600 km/hr at least considering Newton's law). That is still a very impressive feat of both durability and striking power.

@banjomanfu: Ok. I would post something longer but I'm on my phone.

However, if you look it says 'like a bullet' it doesn't mean he was moving as fast as a bullet. He's talking about the style of his movement. Iron Fist being much smaller than the train and moving through it.

His mass is still far larger than a bullet. If you look at the Hydra agent he can see Iron Fist going towards the train but didn't notice Iron Fist on the other side until the explosion was done.

Look at the actual explosion. Where is Iron Fist? You don't see him on the other side do you?

I never said it had the explosive output of a nuke. I simply said it was powerful enough to destroy K'un-Lun as stated in the comic. However, looking at the scan of the explosion and the debris to compare size, the explosion is not big enough to destroy K'un-Lun. So, it appears Iron absorbed most of the kinetic energy.

Last scan, most likely the train was mid-way and some of the debris flew out from the explosion to where the hydra agents were. I don't think any of the train was still in the position of the hydra agents given how big the explosion was.

@visemoon: awesome! You've essentially proven nothing with that last response. If you still don't see how Danny used chi to absorb the Kinetic energy of that train and explosion, I don't know what will unveil your mask of denial and ignorance.

I've answered your question, now answer mine. Do it or I'll answer them for you and make you look like an even bigger idiot.

Here they are in case you need a mind refresher

1) The scans where Shang and Danny fought Matt that you posted are from the 2010 Arc shadowlands, right? The ones from September-December 2010?

2) The scan I posted where Fist KO'd a drunken Hercules: was that or was that not when Hercules lost his god powers? Please provide some evidence to your response here (such as the volume maybe, you seem to know your comics)

3) What do you consider as a superficial wound? Again, no sarcasm please. Just a simple answer will do.

4) Whose level would you say Rhino is on? I say below colossus and thing, but I want your input.

5) Whose level would you say Scorpion is on?

6) If someone lost a fight the first time around because they didn't know what they were up against, would you say that the second time around they will do much better or at least last longer? Just a simple yes or no answer.

Also

1) define "superficial wound"

2) what year was Back in Black spidey (I remember 2007, but I want your input).

Don't dodge like a coward bub. I've answered your question, now answer mine.

@adam_taurus:

He was going 5000 mph? Just asking (I'm not trying to argue or anything), but where did you get those calculations from?

I didn't say that he was moving at 5000 mph. That's the speed of the projectile of a railgun.

"Danny was moving far faster than the train as he is clearly lighter."

That's the point.

In that third to last scan you posted, you can see Danny in a blazing heap of what looks like discarded train parts. That implies he took the explosion. However, even if he didn't, being slammed into a moving maglev train at those speeds (Danny was moving at least the speed of the maglev train, which means 600 km/hr at least considering Newton's law). That is still a very impressive feat of both durability and striking power.

The explosion damaged the railroad but not Danny and the Hydra's mobs.

Only Danny's fists touched the structure of the train so his superhumanly-durable Iron Fists simply pierced through the steel of the train. This doesn't make them more durable than usual. We already know that he can destroy steel with them.

@algorhythm511:

However, if you look it says 'like a bullet' it doesn't mean he was moving as fast as a bullet. He's talking about the style of his movement. Iron Fist being much smaller than the train and moving through it.

I know. My post agree with that. The point is to understand that he was moving fast enough to avoid the explosion.

He is lighter than the train so propelling himself with the same mean make it obvious that he was moving faster.

Look at the actual explosion. Where is Iron Fist? I could understand we saw him coming out on the other end, but we didn't.

Iron Fist isn't in the area of the explosion.

I think that it's better if you look at my post from your computer, a phone screen isn't really suitable for that.

We see his final position when we stop looking at the explosion moreover his clothes aren't burned.

That's one more evidence that has been just through the hull of the train and landed in the train's initial position while the train was explosion.

I never said it had the explosive output of a nuke.

We agree on this.

I simply said it was powerful enough to destroy K'un-Lun as stated in the comic.

I agree on this too.

However, looking at the scan of the explosion and the debris to compare size, the explosion is not big enough to destroy K'un-Lun.

That's true. The explosion isn't powerful enough to damage people around a few hundreds of meters so the radius is remarkably thin.

So, it appears Iron absorbed most of the kinetic energy.

Why jumping to that conclusion ?

One more logical explanation could be that the Hydra's mobs just greatly underestimated the quantity of explosives needed to level the city or that they didn't have the required resources at their disposal to do it.

Danny doesn't have the power to absorb kinetic energy.

The explosion of Nitro's fist, which is far below Nitro's making his whole body explode, was enough to KO Danny for a good time (and damage his clothes in the process).

@johnmiltonch: hey bub: I asked you a question. CAN A PEAK HUMAN TRASH A HELICARRIER WITH ONE PUNCH LIKE WHAT IRON FIST DID!? ANSWER THE QUESTION

@algorhythm511: holy shit finally someone understands how the scan is a feat of energy absorption.

I'd like to shake ur hand

@banjomanfu: would you like the scan of Danny and Nitro again? Nitro even said he can concentrate all his power into his fist.

Also, what gave you the idea that the Hyrda mobs greatly underestimated The amount of explosives needed to level K'un Lun or that they didn't have the resources to do it? It really doesn't hold too much continuity with this:

Remember when algorhythm said "I simply said it was powerful enough to destroy K'un-Lun as stated in the comic."

To which you responded with "I agree on this"?

So, explain that contradiction.