@supermanthor: I meant as in scaling has a lot more importance about determing their power level. Feats are obviously important, but so many things which are considered obvious (like Molecule Man being above Living Tribunal, or GED being above Beyonders) come from hype, not on-panel feats.
@supermanthor: I meant as in scaling has a lot more importance about determing their power level. Feats are obviously important, but so many things which are considered obvious (like Molecule Man being above Living Tribunal, or GED being above Beyonders) come from hype, not on-panel feats.
lf my memory doesn't betray right of the bat mm is established by marvel as a greater power than LT and then he got retconned then hickman made him powerful again
so yes and no about mm being more powerful as lt depends on versions and retcons
and i dont know about GED dc has me confused at whether they have 1 or multiple supreme beings
@supermanthor: Yes, he was established by Marvel to be superior, which is a statement and hype, which is similar to how Lucifer scales in DC. I meant Pre-Retcon.
GED = God Emperor Doom, lol, I meant that he's above them, by hype.
@mcu-defender333: He's not above Lucifer, neither by feats nor statements.
Lucifer has burned Destiny's book...
Gallery
... which has been stated to have existence woven upon it, holds all of creation in it etc.
Gallery
The official map of the DC multiverse which you can find on their official website basically confirms this; Destiny exists beyond the Multiverse and confines of time and space.
Destiny is blatantly shown to be above Source Wall, which is the border of the whole Multiverse, clearly. In fact, Sphere of the Gods is stated to an archetypal, platonic realm, which basically means it's above the dimensions as a concept, above that Sphere is the Limbo, then Monitor Sphere, and finally Source Wall. Each of them are infinitely distant from each other, and Destiny is superior to all of them. And Lucifer scales above Destiny.
Lucifer has even ignored Source in one occasion
On the other hand...
Molecule Man is indeed powerful, if we take it by composite, he's on par with the Beyonder. He's above Living Tribunal, but quite frankly, Living Tribunal is nothing impressive in front of Lucifer, he can treat him like a bug if he wishes so. Beyonder is more of a match, but still not quite enough to beat him, Beyonder is above Living Tribunal, who's above beyond-dimensional realms, which puts him more or less, on Source Wall-level, and by that extension, is the same for Molecule Man, and since Lucifer and Destiny dwarf Source Wall, it's safe to say Lucifer is superior.
@mcu-defender333: MM is not superior to Lucifer. LT in my own interpretation is like a higher officer not necessarily more powerful in raw power but can do anything he desire because of the authority that his position provides.
I'm going with no the only human id say that would have a chance is Constantine with mad prep and knowledge, however I believe the writters have commented on the idea of this fight admitted that Constantine would lose
@mcu-defender333: He's not above Lucifer, neither by feats nor statements.
Lucifer has burned Destiny's book...
Gallery
... which has been stated to have existence woven upon it, holds all of creation in it etc.
Gallery
The official map of the DC multiverse which you can find on their official website basically confirms this; Destiny exists beyond the Multiverse and confines of time and space.
Destiny is blatantly shown to be above Source Wall, which is the border of the whole Multiverse, clearly. In fact, Sphere of the Gods is stated to an archetypal, platonic realm, which basically means it's above the dimensions as a concept, above that Sphere is the Limbo, then Monitor Sphere, and finally Source Wall. Each of them are infinitely distant from each other, and Destiny is superior to all of them. And Lucifer scales above Destiny.
Lucifer has even ignored Source in one occasion
On the other hand...
Molecule Man is indeed powerful, if we take it by composite, he's on par with the Beyonder. He's above Living Tribunal, but quite frankly, Living Tribunal is nothing impressive in front of Lucifer, he can treat him like a bug if he wishes so. Beyonder is more of a match, but still not quite enough to beat him, Beyonder is above Living Tribunal, who's above beyond-dimensional realms, which puts him more or less, on Source Wall-level, and by that extension, is the same for Molecule Man, and since Lucifer and Destiny dwarf Source Wall, it's safe to say Lucifer is superior.
None of that comes anywhere near the Beyonder (pre-retcon), never mind Molecule Man (pre-retcon). Beyonder is legit omnipotent, Lucifer can't even create a multiverse without Michael's help.
Destroying a book that encompasses the multiverse? The LT can hold megaverses in his hand and cradled the entirety of the Phoneix Force in his hand like a bird. Lucifer is closer to the LT than he is to the Beyonder.
@mcu-defender333: uh the bleed space contains infinite multiverses and megaverses layered infinitely which already puts dc larger than marvel never mind the rest which Destiny's book encompasses and lucifer is superior to Destiny therefore superior to the LT and MM and this comes from someone who likes marvel more in general
-but go ahead and make a new thread for it if you want. Pre-retcon MM once transported himself and the Beyonder to a place beyond existence (beyond even the place between multiverses that the LT resides in). You'll need far more than destroying a book to convince me he's above MM.
Well I really don't think I need to make a repeated thread I do believe that's against the rules. My point in bringing up the book of Destiny is cause it encompasses a multiverse. Much bigger than marvel and it controls every thing in it burning pages would be multiversal damage. The basanos are equal to the book yet are also inferior to lucifer someone with only one of dreams stones created 6 billion multiverses and destroyed all but 2 or 3 dream put to sleep a being who eats 5d imps for breakfast he is the. Lord over all that never was or will be easy multiversal yet he admitted he'd lose horribly to lucifer death of the endless can and has and will kill her siblings she could kill MM yet she can't lucifer she admitted this and she admitted that he could. Kill her. The demiguric which is the. Very basic thing that makes up all and could destroy all doesn't do nothing to him thats the power that birthed a multiverse bigger than marvel didnt even tickle him. He one tapped the logos which house the voice of god which hold a multiverse bigger than marvel together. Lucifer also went beyond existence and percieved the whole multiverse and absorbed all of its history in a blink of an eye. Dude is ridiculous Sorry MM has zero chance here I can post my RT on him if you'd like
Moving through a realm where usual rules of time and space do not apply =/= being in a place beyond creation. Rules of time and space don't apply so much in Dormammu's dimension either, doesn't put him anywhere near the tier of Lucifer or MM.
Beyonder and MM sent shockwaves throughout existence as a side effect of their clash. Show me Lucifer achieving something on this level with his power alone (I don't care what book he burned).
@mcu-defender333: Ask and you shall receive here is my RT on him hopefully this answers your questions sorry bout the links I post for now on my phone https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-lucifer-morningstar-vertigodc-2000631
@mcu-defender333: Ask and you shall receive here is my RT on him hopefully this answers your questions sorry bout the links I post for now on my phone https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-lucifer-morningstar-vertigodc-2000631
@mcu-defender333: no problem the only thing I didn't put in there which I should is the cosmology but there are several threads around that explain it so shouldn't be to hard to put in
@mcu-defender333: What? Molecule Man is the one who's NOWHERE near this power level, and lol, he's not omnipotent, in fact, he's far from being omnipotent.
PS: He burned a book that contains all of Creation, that's greater than anything Beyonder or Molecule Man have ever accomplished, don't be ignorant by saying you don't care that he did that.
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