Comic Vine Battle of the Week VOTING: Moon Knight vs. Black Canary

Yeah, something like that, but I don't think she will get close to lose or die in this fight..

Yes, she does. So does Mark, but she's probably more proficient with them.

@reikai said:

For me this is one of the greatest truths to any fight, especially with martial artists. It's ultimately about how much punishment they can take. Dinah may be the better fighter by a slight margin, but in terms of sheer toughness, Marc outstrips her. Add in his armor and he can withstand quite a bit more punishment, which also diminishes the effectiveness of her own attacks.

Spector is no street brawler. He is highly trained by several government agencies and gathered further skill in multiple combat and high-risk zones across the world when as both a Black Ops agent and a mercenary. He's also fought and trained with some of the best teams of Avengers out there, even when they think he's the craziest spook they've ever seen. Even moreso than Frank Castle.

Canary may be able to bring the hurt on, but at the end of the day, Moon Knight is the one with the drive to finish things. To go that extra length needed. To cross the line no one else is willing to.

I doubt Moon Knight can withstand a canary cry capable to leveling a building.

@matchesmalone21: His armor can hold up a building. And he's fought plenty of people with powers. Has even gotten the drop on Spider-Man once before. Even killed his own brother who had powers and could project kinetic force blasts that turned people into paste.

But ya know the one thing no one has yet to show about Dinah is how many hits she can take. Really. No one. People will show how good a fighter she is. But no one wants to show how hurt she can be before going down. Whereas Marc can be burned, shot, stabbed, with lacerations all over his body and break both his legs, and still put down his nemesis by carving Bushman's face off.

People want to use the Canary Cry as a one-hit victory, when there's no way of telling if it could take down Marc in his armor. There's also no telling if she can manage to use it to hit him. Certainly, random encounter, he may not know about it. Both in character, she may know use it except as a last resort. Marc, however, will put her down fast and hard if he feels she is a threat. And he won't be gentle about it.

And if Marc has to remote in his mooncoptor/jet to bomb and/or distract her, that's just what he'll do. He's not above playing dirty and using everything he's got to win. If Canary worries about collateral, she may not use the Cry to its fullest. And in that case, she'll never be able to put Spector down. Whereas once she uses the Cry, he'll know what to watch out for, and how he might disable it. Which can be, as noted before, a ricochet shot to the throat.

@reikai: Marc's armor only covers part of his body.

His 2010 armor isn't standard.

Pain toleranccccccceeeeeeeeee ftw!

It's seems you didn't read a single issue of New 52 Birds of Prey,because she used the Canary Cry with almost every oponent she have encounter without problem,the only thing she wouldn't do is kill a person. I tried to say she can leveled a building with Canary Cry and can do the same with his suit,that IRC isn't made of adamantium a long time ago....

@matchesmalone21: I never said it was made of adamantium. And i'm afraid I don't read New-52. Or DC in general. I honestly don't like DC. But it doesn't change my point. No one has shown what kind of punishment she can take.

Moony has helped take down people in the higher-destruction category than Dinah. I think one of the first things he did when back with the Avengers a few years ago was take down a pirate who was using something called the Gauntlet or Horus (or something) that could, according to them; "Shoot an Elephant to the Moon" with the amount of force it can create.

One of the things about Marc is he makes everyone twitchy. Even Iron-Man, with a squad of SHIELD agents, in Spector's home during the whole Civil War thing, was on edge just being near him because Spector is unpredictable. Even commenting on how dangerous it was for Tony to leave his face-plate up and his face exposed. Which immediately got everyone aiming their weapons at him.

The man has been dead and back. And if Canary isn't willing to go the extra mile, she'll end up dead.

Dinah.

There's been a lot of talk about Canary being trained by the best, but it's worth pointing out that being trained by the best does not in any way make you the best. Natural talent plays a bigger role in those who are masters of their skill set.

Taking guitar lessons from Eddie Van Halen doesn't mean you can play guitar like Eddie Van Halen. Nor did Eddie Van Halen get to be such a great player by taking lessons from someone else who was better.

So then is it fair to say that Black Canary a better H2H fighter than Moon Knight because she trained with Batman? Nope. Not even close.

Moon Knight has a natural ability to kick tail and take damage. That's what it would take to beat BC.

And at the risk of repeating myself and others, Black Canary does not start a fight with her scream especially not on a normal human. Since MK has the ability to physically overpower her and is a naturally proficient fighter my guess is still that he takes the narrow victory because he takes her out before she utilizes her scream to its full potential. Khonshu will be pleased.

Bye bye birdie. ;-) MK 6-10

I'm backing Moon Knight here his durability is insane.

@matchesmalone21: IIRC, Condor enhances her powers when he's near her. Although he may have been lying? We'll find out next issue i guess xD

IIRC is rather the contrary.....Being near Black Canary boost his powers.

Because....being close to you boosts my power.

No pain no gain.

I am going to go with Moon Knight with this one. I think BC is very tough and has superior fighting skills, but MK's guts/determination/Pain Tolerance - makes this guy crazy. BC is killer skilled, has the Sonic cry and great boobs but she is not in it for the long haul like Marc is. I think Marc will get schooled, but will gut up and take her down. He will be messed up for weeks after, but he will realize the intensity BC brings and step up his game to beat her.

Oh yeah, also the whole Egyptian God interference possibility makes it interesting too...

First, she obviously isn't at Spector's level of pain resistance. Nor does she have to be. Can she take a punch? Yes, of course, just like anyone else in the business, and if you really need to see scans of her getting punched and still fighting, I can show that. But it doesn't matter, because she is more skilled than him, that's just straight up. So she can block him, she can nerve strike him, she can break limbs, she can incapacitate him. He will not get much of a chance to try to put a beating on her. And if by any chance he does, she can always strike out with the cry, and knock him the hell away right through a wall like this.

It doesn't matter if it's her first or last resort, she's always got the option, and honestly she is probably not gong to need it. Yes, Spector has fought people with powers before. But also yes, she has fought other people with his skill level before too. You can't just rely on, "he can fight people with powers." You have to explain logically how he would win. And pain resistance is not going to do it--or at least, not enough for a majority. I do think he'd get some wins, and I think he'd put up a hell of a fight, but not enough.

(The armor that held up a building was his old armor, his new armor is significantly less protective.)

As an aside, here's a couple random scans: an old one against Batman:

"The struggle is as equal as such a fight can be. The man is a master of personal combat, but so is the woman, and for a time they are equally matched." A fight Batman thinks will be difficult if not impossible. But she's mind-controlled, so he eventually wins.

And a more recent one, with the same kind of description, in case anyone worries about the one above being too old:

"One of the word's most dangerous hand-to-hand fighters and possessor of a sonic scream that can shatter steel."

And yes, she kept fighting after her wrist was apparently broken. (This is White Canary, considered by some to be the best fighter in DC.) She is willing to go the extra mile.

Then we agree Black Canary takes the solid majority.

@owie: Considering he has fought with people with similar abilities, it's do not feel it's enough to give her an edge.

And what does it matter if she could keep going with a broken wrist? Marc kept going with broken legs.

In terms of toughness there's really no comparison. Dinah is like a glass cannon next to Spector. He, like her, can use pressure points and nerve clusters, and take on multiple opponents.

Even if he has to do so in his undies. He even gets mad when others like Iron-Fist, Spider-Man and Black Widow don't let him have any fun.

And we know he's fought other heroes before, including Daredevil. Before and after he got possessed.

Spector is not so poor a fighter that Dinah can just drop'im. And he's got more than enough tools at his disposal to keep'er off her game and put'er down.

Electric truncheons, crescent guns, grapples, katanas, staff, small explosives, etc etc. Dinah is a one-trick pony who won't go for the kill. Spector will.

@rag_man: told you so

@reikai: IIRC in the first fight with daredevil you posted the arcade with interfering with Matts senses.

Yes, that's correct. That's why he couldn't react accordingly to the thrown truncheon.

@reikai said:

@owie: Considering he has fought with people with similar abilities, it's do not feel it's enough to give her an edge.

And what does it matter if she could keep going with a broken wrist? Marc kept going with broken legs.

In terms of toughness there's really no comparison. Dinah is like a glass cannon next to Spector. He, like her, can use pressure points and nerve clusters, and take on multiple opponents.

Forgive me, but I don't see Spector doing much of anything in this scan... minus lying there in pain. Not sure why it's relevant. How did the battle conclude?

@omnicrono: Marc ricochets a crescent dagger into Bushman's neck and then proceeds to... well, cut off his enemy's face.

You have my vote

@k4tzm4n: Ew...

Heh, thanks for the info.

@jashro44: He was having some issue yes, and that's also quite an old issue. Later is not the case. The only thing that stopped him from taking Matt down was his sensitivity to the entity possessing him. And the fact he had no gear.

Either way, Marc is no pushover. During the "Vengeance" arc he even pulled off a Hawkeye. Shot an arrow that split in half across the blade of a sword, and embedded into the hands of two armed pirates on either side, keeping them from firing their guns.

The deciding factor here isn't going to be the Canary Cry. It's certainly a big gun for Dinah, but it's also her only weapon. Marc has more up his sleeve than she does.

All moon knight did IIRC was punch him in the face. This version of shadowland daredevil embarrassed iron fist and shang chi at the same time, jumped like 50 feet in the air, cratered the ground, and took a hit from spider-man, took getting stabbed by wolverine through the chest, etc. Moon knight wouldn't have won....Honestly I can only assume that was a lucky hit.

Which is very impressive. I never said he was a pushover.

I never commented on the fight. I was just commenting on the context of those scans.

@reikai: First of all, I've already posted most of those scans myself here or in previous week's battles. I like Moon Knight. I often argue in his favor because I think many people don't appreciate how good he is. But that's not enough for this fight.

First, the Soundbyte scan, which I posted on the first page of this battle, is not the same situation as Canary's cry. As has been discussed multiple times already in this thread, Soundbyte's scream is basically just acoustic--it hurts the ears and mind. And yes, he has tech in his cowl to take care of that, or at least he did then. But Canary's cry is enough to knock down structures, knock opponents scores of feet away, pulverize brick, etc. It has a physical effect, and Marc's tech is not going to have any effect on that destructive effect. Nor is his armor going to stop its destructive effects, because it doesn't cover most of his body. Canary's cry will take him down. Being a one-trick pony is irrelevant, it's still a highly effective attack that Marc can do nothing about.

And yes, Marc has a great pain tolerance. But it is not infinite, and he cannot shrug off all physical injury instantly. He will be knocked down, stunned, at the very least. And that is all Dinah would need to take him out for the win.

Scans of Marc doing nerve strikes? I know, he's good. I've got more examples, too. But while Marc is a highly trained and effective fighter, and is very agile and quick, and is pretty strong, he is not in the top tier of Marvel fighters. He is clearly below people like Daredevil, Cap, Iron Fist, etc. While Canary is in the top tier of DC fighters. Where exactly she is on that list is debatable: is she as good as Batman, or slightly above, or slightly below? Is she Shiva level, or White Canary level, etc. But she is at least clearly in that general top tier, and that is higher than him.

Fighting Daredevil? It was a good fight. But it is also true that DD's radar sense was confused by the arcade sounds, so he was not at the top of his game. I've got the complete scans if you want them.

And yes, he has a variety of weapons (although if we are going with his current armor it is unclear exactly what weapons he has with him right now) and incredible accuracy. And that will get him some wins. But it will not get him the majority. They're starting close, 15'. He's not going to go for gas or explosives right away, he doesn't pull that out as a first option. He'll go for the physical fight, especially against an unarmed woman. She can close in on him and take him out pretty quickly through incapacitation due to her higher skill, so it will never come to a question of durability. He will try to stick her with thrown crescents as she closes, but she has a pretty good chance of dodging or catching them, as she (like Marc) has done multiple times with projectiles in the past. Physically, his best bet is to do what he did to Taskmaster and try to basically scare the crap out of her, and hope she doesn't disarm his truncheon from him, which is probably what she'll do. But the thing is, even if she did (completely out of character) get scared by him and forget all her skill and starting losing in H2H, she can just pull out that cry and blast him down where he stands from point blank range, and he's toast.

Although the poll seems decided in favour of Dinah, I am placing my vote with Moon Knight. Nothing I've read on this thread has convinced me Black Canary can beat him.