@kbroskywalker:

Rewatch the fight. They were already in a force lock for several seconds before Yoda starts getting pushed back. You can literally see Sidious moving his hand up and the pods following upwards. I don't get how you don't see it.

Canon is Canon. If the official site for Star Wars is saying that Palpatine won, then that's how it is. It is that simple. If it wasn't supposed to be that way, they wouldn't have put it up there. Same thing with Ultimate Star Wars, another source from the current Canon. If it says it, it is because the editors and writers approved it. The movie doesn't take over everything else Disney Canon. It's either Canon or not, and those sources are Canon.

@freesid_stf123: sidious moves the pods down, yoda moves his hand up and catches and throws them back, then sidious lifts his hands and pushes the pods.

actually it does, anything that contradicts rots is non canon.

@kbroskywalker:

Are you even watching the video? Stop trying to twist information. Sidious throws two pods at Yoda, then lifts a total of four pods, the one he is standing on, and the other three above his head, before throwing them at Yoda.

No it doesn't. Canon is Canon. There are no Canon classes anymore. There were in the old EU, but that's done away with. The official Star Wars site says Palpatine > Yoda, repeatedly. The book Ultimate Star Wars, also part of the current Canon, states Palpatine > Yoda. Pretty straightforward.

@freesid_stf123: bud new canon says anything not movie or show is legends. Are you? yoda moves pods up, sidious throws them bacl

@kbroskywalker: No. Everything that has been published, starting with the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comics onwards, is part of the new canon, along with the movies, TCW, and Rebels.

Yes I am, and anyone who has at least one eye can see that's Palpatine moving the pods. All Yoda did was stand up. How you interpret that as him force gripping senate pods and throwing them up is beyond me.

@freesid_stf123: sidious did not move his hands when the pods went up.

the rots novelization was pre sod.

@kbroskywalker: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

@darthbane77: or we can fight

@kbroskywalker: Nah, we just don't agree and I don't wanna go back and forth then leave off angry or anything. Also, I just wanna go play Fallout lol.

@kybroskywalker

If that's all you have to say then I'm not interested in continuing this any further.

I know that the novelization came before SOD, but that isn't what Im talking about, and you know that. Im talking about the book Ultimate Star Wars which came out after, and what the official Star Wars site says about the Yoda and Palpatine fight. Those are what I was using to prove my point, and those say Palpatine > Yoda.

ROTS Sidious and Yoda are equals.

Obviously, his further incarnations are superior to Yoda, but the fights would be close regardless. ROTJ wins 6/10, DE wins 8/10.

It's already decided.

- starwars.com

@erkan12: the movie itself as well as the script and the junior novelization all disagree. All of which are primary sources. The only source material(this isn't including guides and such that are based on source material and hence are subject to being invalidated by said source material) states sidious is more powerful is the senior novelization which contradicts the movie(highest source of canon), as well as the junior novel and the script which both align with the movie. All of which portray them as stalemating in their force battle.

Now the novelization does have sidious winning. But its also a clear outlier with how it potrays the begiining of the fight:

In the Senate Arena, lightning forked from the hands of a Sith, and bent away from the gesture of a Jedi to shock Redrobes into unconsciousness. Then there were only the two of them. Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh. A thousand years of hidden Sith exulted in their victory. "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" And it was the whole of the Jedi Order that rocketed from its huddle, making of its own body a weapon to blast the Sith to the ground.

-rots novelization

Here, sidious never knocks yoda to the ground with his lightning, and yoda never tks sidious across the room. Instead sidious's lightning is redirected to the guards(who somehow don't die from it) and yoda kicks sidious.

And the pivotal moment of the fight is also an outlier:

The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow— Half a second too slow. The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium, and he fell.

-rots novel

This completely contradicts how the fight actually ends in the movie. Here sidious ends the fight by out manuvering and then blasting yoda in the air. In the movie, the script, and the junior novel, the fight ends when yoda and sidious are engaged in a tutaminis/lightning battle.

Here's how it ends in the movie:

script:

YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.

—Revenge of the Sith script

junior novelization:

Yoda caught it. The blue energy built into a glowing ball in his hand, ready to throw back at the Sith Lord the moment his attack stopped. But Palpatine didn’t stop; the Force lightning came in a steady crackle, building more and more, until neither of them could hold it any longer, and the blast knocked them both out of the pod.

Palpatine was larger and heavier; he managed to catch hold of the edge of the pod as he fell. But Yoda was small and light. The explosion threw him high into the air, with nothing to grab to break his fall. Half-stunned, he began the long fall to the Senate floor.

—Revenge of the Sith junior novel

Off course this doesn't apply to rotj/de sidious who decisively beat/stomp yoda respectively.

Palpatine is superior, Yoda is overrated.

Question - Could the reason Yoda be as powerful as he is due to the fact he's lived for over 800 years? I mean he was 877 i believe at the point of there fight ? So the fact Palps is arguably even with Yoda in the short space of time palps has had i think he was 63 by this point should show who has the more raw power out of the two?

This aswell with lightsaber combat, Yoda might be superior but considering he's had over 800 years to practise, palps isn't even that far off.

Basically Palps is arguably level with Yoda and has done it in 814 years less, lol ? Or am i missing something ?

ROTS Sidious>Yoda.

In the comic, Yoda was overpowered twice, same in the novel.

In the movie, once, and was being overpowered the second until he somehow stalemated.

Starwars.com states THRICE that Yoda lost.

One character encyclopedia states Yoda was no match.

ROTJ Sidious would win nearly if not every time against Yoda, DE Sidious near if not stomps Yoda.

Yoda:

Force Powers: Yoda is very powerful in the force, although I wish we could have seen more in terms of his force powers alone. In regards to any new powers he has, the prequels primarily focused on his lightsaber powers which were awesome, but wish we could have seen even more. Anyway, he has an amazing knowledge of both sides of the force and is highly skilled at Telekinesis, more so then any Jedi that we've seen. The fact that it takes more time for him to throw a Senate pod is simply due to the more difficult nature of the light side and the largeness of the object(notice how easily it is for Jedi to move smaller objects like their sabers, spheres, ect), so I don't believe age holds him back in this field. Also, his ability to block/absorb/redirect Sith lightning with his bare hands is a pretty amazing feat and yes, he overpowers Palpatine with this ability, even though it's power was too strong for him to send it back flawlessly, hence the explosion when their combined powers became too much and sent them both back.. He is also highly adept at sensing the force, such as when he senses Anakin's fall to Palpatine and when he feels the impact of all the Jedi's deaths, when it seems as if even Obi-Wan could not sense it. His mind reading abilities as well as his assumed abilities to wipe the minds of others also make him pretty powerful. Battle Meditation, the Force Push, and the Force wave, and force visions are also some of his strongest skills in the force. And of course, his ability to become one with the force is pretty awesome. The fact that he lived so long is a testament to his skills in the force, although this may be due to his species as well?

Lightsaber Skills: Yoda is simply an incredible lightsaber duelist- His speed in killing the clones in Revenge Of The Sith and his powerful attacks on both Sidious and Dooku show that he was amazingly skilled in this field. Sidious found it very difficult to block Yoda's moves towards the end of their lightsaber duel, as shown in the movie. I definitely think it's possible Sidious was disarmed by him, although perhaps it's more likely that he switched tactics and took the high ground, ending their lightsaber combat on purpose, although it begs the question of why didn't he just flee since he was so far away from Yoda and could have fled through the exit of the Senate pod he was in.

Knowledge/IntelligenceWisdom: Again, Yoda knew quite a bit about the force and about the Dark Side, although his failure in understanding how the Sith had survived and evolved was a critical mistake on his behalf, although I would guess that his superiors made the same mistake so he parroted them. Still, he's incredibly wise, definitely the wisest of the Jedi and seems to be wiser and less narrow minded(at least in the old trilogy) then the rest of the Jedi, especially Obi-Wan who doesn't seem to believe Leia could destroy the Sith?

Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious:

Force Powers: Well, where do we start? Palpatine is probably the most powerful practicioner of the Dark Side of all time and is an incredibly dangerous individual in combat and anywhere. His force vision powers are exceptional and his telekinetic abilities are so powerful that he can not only throw all those Senate pods,, but also move his own pod away from Yoda in order to prevent the latter from closing the gap between them. His speed and agility are incredible as he was able to kill those two Jedi Masters in an instant and battle Darth Maul and his brother with great speed and skill, as well as throwing them around pretty easily. His force choking of the guards prior to that duel is also masterful, especially considering the fact that the second time he uses it, he is outside the door at the time. His ability to sense Darth Vader being in danger as well as his being in tune to the force are also impressive. Although I personally believe that it pales in comparison to the light side ability of becoming one with the force, Sidious's ability to remove his spirit from his body and poesess others with it is a pretty amazing feat, as well as his ability to conjure Force Storms, although this seems to incredibly draining and difficult. His signature move, Force Lightning, is great too, although it gets a little old after a while(C'mon Sidious, don't you know variety is the spice of life?). The clouding of the Jedi's powers with the use of the Dark Side is also exceptional, although it stretches it a little bit- it's pretty hard to believe that the Jedi were really that blind?

Lightsaber Abilities: He's astonishingly powerful with a lightsaber, as noted above in his duel with Darth Maul and Opress and his quick killing of those three Jedi Masters. I know Lucas has stated differently, but nothing will change my mind that Palpatine purposely lost to Windu. Anyway, he is able to deflect Yoda's lightsaber attacks (although he eventually has great difficulty in doing so), as well as being skilled in all 7 forms of combat.

Knowledge/Intelligence/Wisdom: Palpatine has an incredible knowledge of the Dark Side and of the Jedi as well, is a brilliant strategist and manipulator, the latter arguably being his greatest weapon of all given it won him the Galaxy. His execution of fullfilling the Sith's plan of destroying the Jedi Order is truly a masterclass that continues to fascinate me and is one of the reasons I find the prequels more interesting then the original trilogy. However, his powers in both the Force and in his intellectual skills make him highly arrogant and overconfident as we saw during the Battle Of Endor and his taunts to Yoda prior to being force-pushed by the latter. His negliegence is not being concerned enough with finding the last scraps of the Jedi was arguably his biggest error, since it enabled his rule to be ended in the end by Luke.

I'd have to go with Sidious, although I personally don't believe he did as well in his duel with Yoda as some do and the lack of knowledge of Yoda in comparison to Sidious makes me slightly doubt my decision. Still, based on the evidence we have, I'd have to conclude Sidious is more powerful.

Sources: Wookipedia, Stars Wars Youtube Videos, The Movies, ect.

Sidious seems to be more powerful given the intense amounts of praise he gets from supporting Sources I've seen in the forums.

@SilentBat: Yoda

Most people are in agreement that Sheev is more powerful

Literally any sourcebook novel guide tells sheev is more powerful than rots yoda why is this even a thing to ask.

Sourcebooks are utterly irrelevent when we have the film itself providing the answer.

@lord_tenebrous said:

@lord_tenebrous said:

This fight is as debatable as AOTC Obi-Wan vs Dooku.

Yoda literally won the duel in the clearest terms possible. He overpowered Sidious with the Force on 3 separate occasions and also outdueled him.

@lord_tenebrous said:

Yoda wins via being superior in every way. The movie was very, very clear as to who was the more formidable, and it wasn't Sidious.

This should be obvious, as we see Yoda hurl him screaming across the room:

A display of such power as to cause Sidious' demeanor to change from confident and gloating to cowering and horrified:

And then he flat out attempts to flee, and is startled, perhaps even frightened, when he sees Yoda standing in his way:

"If so powerful you are, why leave?"

The intent was pretty clear here. Sidious switches to bragging about Vader's future, and engages in a lightsaber duel. A duel he also lost, per the film script, despite Yoda fighting in a limited environment:

The next time Sidious dares to match his power directly against Yoda, he makes sure to attack when Yoda's not expecting it, knocking his opponent off-balance and subsequently giving Sidious the initial advantage:

Yoda still manages to gather himself, taking control and setting into motion the clear transition from Sidious pressing him back and believing he's going to win, to Yoda outright overpowering Sidious' prolonged blast, forcing the moaning Emperor back:

Yoda exceeded the strength of Sidious' power output and subequently took back ground, then gained more before the built-up energies exploded.

By virtue of having openly overpowered Sidious several times, as well as outdueling him blade-to-blade, one can easily conclude that Yoda is stronger and more skilled. He wins every time, albeit with difficulty.