Ranking the Force users: Bigsambino style

I suppose that everyone has their own ranking system, and most of us base it off of statements made by the creative minds behind Star Wars, everyone from Lucas to Gillard to Filloni. Of course, at times, these statements can become a bit confusing, when you have different talent making remarks about the characters at different times. Such as Lucas stating that to compete with the Emperor, you either have to be Mace or Yoda. We then have a claim by Gillard stating that Mace is a high 8, almost a 9, and that Anakin in ROTS is a 9. Does that mean that these statements contradict each other? Or can we reconcile them, somehow?

I say yes.

Gillard is usually talking in terms of dueling, and he is stating that Mace is an 8, Anakin is a 9, but is he accounting for Force powers? I'm going to say no.

A high 8 can compete with a 9, when you take everything into perspective. Especially if we take Legends into account, we can see the Mace has some powers that Anakin does not, i.e. Vaapad.

Let's break it down into a few categories.

Force Strength: How strong a character is when using the Force (physical strength)

Force Speed: How fast a character is when using the Force

Dexterity: How agile a character is when using the Force

Constitution: How much offense a character can take

Defense: How well a character's defense is with a blade

Offense: How well a character's offense is with a blade

Charisma: How well a character can influence others

Wisdom: Foresight, ability to use Dun Moch, quick decision making

Willpower: How much a character can endure, be it pain/stamina

Perception: How well a character can interact with outside events during a fight

The highest one can achieve is a perfect 100.

Let's use Sidious as an example:

Strength-8, Speed-10, Dexterity-10, Constitution-9, Defense-9, Offense-10, Charisma-10, Wisdom-9, Willpower-9, Perception-10.

That would give Sidious a total of 94 out of 100.

Yoda:

Strength-9, Speed-10, Dexterity-10, Constitution-9, Defense-9, Offense-10, Charisma-8, Wisdom-9, Willpower-9, Perception-10

That would give Yoda a 93 out of 100.

Now let's take a look at somebody like Anakin.

Strength-10, Speed-10, Dexterity-9, Constitution-9, Defense-9, Offense-10, Charisma-8, Wisdom-8, Willpower-9, Perception-8

Anakin would have an 90 out of 100

Mace Windu: Strength-9, Speed-9, Dexterity-8, Constitution-9, Defense-9, Offense-9, Charisma-8, Wisdom-8, Willpower-9, Perception-10

Mace would have an 88 out of 100.

Now Kenobi: Strength-7, Speed-8, Dexterity-8, Constitution-8, Defense-10, Offense-8, Charisma-8, Wisdom-8, Willpower-8, Perception-10

Kenobi has an 83. His highest marks are in Defense and Perception, which is a great counter for Anakin's superior Strength and Offense.

Let's take a look at a Legends character, like Darth Caedus.

Strength-9, Speed-9, Dexterity-9, Constitution-10, Defense-9, Offense-9, Charisma-8, Wisdom-9, Willpower-8, Perception-10

Caedus would have a 90. Higher than Mace and Kenobi, but beneath Yoda and Sidious, and equal to Anakin.

How about an OR character, like Darth Bane?

Strength-10, speed-8, Dexterity-7, Constitution-8, Defense-9, Offense-9, Charisma-7, Wisdom-8, Willpower-8, Perception-8

Bane gets an 82, here. Very strong, and still very fast, but definitely beneath Sidious. His lowest points are in Charisma and Dexterity. He's not the best at influencing others, and he's not as agile as the others on the list.

Now let's look at Darth Vader.

Strength-10, Speed-7, Dexterity-7, Constitution-10, Defense-10, Offense-9, Charisma-8, Wisdom-8, Willpower-9, Perception-8

This makes Darth Vader an 86. His Speed, Dexterity, and Offense have decreased, but his Constitution, Willpower, and Perception have increased. Basically, he's a slower, tougher, smarter version of himself.

Darth Maul

Strength-8, Speed-9, Dexterity-8, Constitution-10, Defense-8, Offense-10, Charisma-7, Wisdom-7, Willpower-9, Perception-7

Maul has an 83. He's very fast, very tough, but he doesn't always think ahead.

Others may have a better way of ranking certain characters, but this is my way. And for me, it explains how someone like Kenobi, who is an 8, is able to compete with Anakin, who is a 9.

It's really a way of showing how logically, Kenobi can beat someone like Bane, though just barely.

We know that the Rule of Two was meants to produce stronger Sith with each generation. Of course, stronger may mean actually strength in the Force, and a greater knowledge. The Banite Sith valued knowledge above all. For them, knowledge was power, and that is what led to Sidious being able to overthrow the Republic and the Jedi, at a time when the Jedi Order was stronger than ever.

For instance, let's take a look at Darth Zannah

Strength-7, Speed-8, Dexterity-8, Constitution-8, Defense-9, Offense-8, Charisma-9, Wisdom-8, Willpower-9, Perception-9

Zannah get's an 83 here. One point above Bane. She lacks in strength, but has high Defense, Charisma, Willpower, and Perception. Her Sorcery is going to come into play with Willpower and Perception.

It's really hard to rate Cognus, because at the time we see her, she is VASTLY pre-prime. My personal opinion is that the entire Banite line of Sith start out as Tier 8's, and only become Tier 9's around perhaps the time of Tenebrous.

Can one be massively powerful in the Force, and yet still be on a lower tier? I say yes, because of lack of application.

If Bane and Kenobi are both 8's, with Kenobi technically being slightly above Bane, who is to say that Kenobi couldn't accomplish some of the feats that Bane has?

Well, for one, Bane never had to fight anyone as skilled as Kenobi, Maul, Dooku, etc. Yes, he fought Kas'im, but we have a hard time ranking him, because of the limited amount of feats he has, other than dueling Bane. We have mostly accolades.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of others regarding all this. Perhaps rank a few characters of your own using this system, or let us know what your system is!

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Lack of great Light Side Force Users

The Star Wars universe, whether legends or canon, is rapidly expanding. We are being introduced to numerous characters, and some are really cool!

I'm going to mostly focus on Legends. It seems to me that all of our really great Force users are within the PT. 3 movies and a great animated series really helped to flesh out those characters, not to mention the Legends novels.

Prior to the PT, we have an abundance of powerful Force users, but it seems to me, that they are all Dark Side users. Sith.

Look at TOR. Every powerful being there is a Sith, save for what, the Outlander and a couple other Jedi?

And then of course you have:

Darth Revan and Malak

Malgus

Darth Bane and Zannah

Plagueis, Sidious, and Maul.

Where are the Jedi that can contend with these users? None of these Sith are able to be taken down by just ONE Jedi. It usually takes an entire team of Jedi, and the Jedi still lose. Or, a fellow dark side user defeats them.

This is just a short musing, but I really wish that we could see some powerful Jedi rise up in the new canon, outside of the PT.

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The Gold Mine: Ideas for new SW movies

I have been a Star Wars fan since I was 8 years old. I watched The Empire Strikes Back, and I was immediately hooked. Now, 7 films, 2 series, and over 100 SW EU books later, I'm still an addict.

I will always have love for the EU, and I understand that it is no longer canon. With any new movies, they will not be based off of any EU books, and will instead be original stories. That being said, I would still love to see some movies loosely based off of the greatest stories the EU had to offer.

Darth Bane Trilogy:

You would need someone large and muscled to play the part of Bane. I'm thinking Scarlet Johansson would be the perfect Darth Zannah.

Dark Lords Trilogy:

A Trilogy about the complex relationship between Plagueis, Sidious, and Maul, all set about 10 years prior to TPM.

Kenobi Trilogy or standalone film:

Bring back Ewan Mcgregor as Obi-Wan, and feature a very young Luke Skywalker. I would love to see Luke show off some Force powers, and Yoda sense it from across the galaxy, and instruct Obi-Wan as to how to put a block on his powers, to prevent Luke from bringing unwanted attention to himself. This would also be a great way to retcon the fact that Luke had virtually no powers at all at the beginning of ANH.

The Old Republic TV Series:

The storyline is there. It's perfect. It could last for years. Make this happen! It could even be a Netflix original, considering how popular those are now. Make it live action.

There's been talk of a Yoda origins story. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it would be awesome to see his story, but on the other hand, it would take away the mystery of Yoda, and I think that's a key part of his appeal.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts.

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Darth Maul: Potential Untapped?

In this blog, I wish to talk about one of the most badass characters in all of SW, the great Darth Maul. Maul has called one of the greatest duelists in Sith history, an accolade that carries much weight, considering the long and glorious history of the Sith. After all, he was trained by the most powerful Sith in history, Darth Sidious. How could he not be a warrior of the finest caliber?

Now, let's consider the Rule of Two. Maul was taken by Sidious as a child, and trained to be his apprentice. Now, he told his master, Plagueis, that Maul was merely an assassin and not a formal apprentice, so as to avoid breaking the Rule of Two. IIRC, Plagueis believed that he and Sidious were to be the last of the Banite Sith, and of course, Sidious sought to kill his master.

Normally, a master will only train an apprentice that is worthy, i.e., one that would be able to one day defeat the master in battle. Did Sidious see that potential in Maul, or, like his master, did he believe that he and Maul were to be the last of the Sith and he chose an apprentice weaker than him to ensure that he could never be overthrown?

Or, was Maul really just a tool all along, and Sidious knew, actually knew, that he would find a more powerful apprentice in Anakin? Obviously he and Plagueis had a hand in Anakin's conception via the Force, but that was after he had already taken Maul as an apprentice.

So, would we say that it's a possibility that Maul was destined for greater things until Anakin came along? Or was he really just a pawn all along, same as Dooku?

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Differences in Force Power

I've been going back and forth with myself over this for some time, now. In the Battles forums, certain characters are pitted against each other, and sometimes we exclaim that one character would "Stomp" the other. Now, there are obvious cases where that is guaranteed, but other times, it's not. A big problem in SW as a whole, canon and Legends, is that the portrayals of the characters are often inconsistent. We say that a Jedi being able to contend with Grievous is a great feat, and then state that the same character would stomp someone like Padawan Ahsoka, who ALSO contended with Grievous. If Grievous is so talented as a duelist that he can stalemate Mace Windu, he should have mutilated Ahsoka in seconds. And then we have Rebels Ahsoka standing toe-to-toe with what many are saying is Prime Vader, and people are saying that Prime Vader would absolutely ragdoll someone like Darth Bane. I see Darth Bane absolutely ragdolling any version of Ahsoka.

Darth Bane is often considered one of the weakest Sith, and people say that characters like Palpatine would absolutely ragdoll him. Honestly, I don't think that there's a HUGE difference in power between most upper tier Force users. People consistently lowball Vader's speed, saying that lack of mobility would cost him a fight, yet there are reports of him being as fast as Yoda.

Unless a fight is a severe mismatch, like ANH Luke vs Darth Sidious, I don't think that many stomps would actually occur. A weaker character CAN beat a stronger character (Jaina vs Caedus/Kenobi vs Vaderkin).

It's so incredibly hard to "scale" or rate the characters. If we do a scale of 1-10, and count ANH Luke as a 1 and GM Luke a 10, how would a character that's a 9 compare against him? And who would we consider a 9? Is ROTS Sidious and Yoda a 10? Where does Plagueis stand? And there are so many variables that go into play. Some Jedi/Sith are better at dueling with weaker Force powers, and some are very strong in the Force, but weaker at dueling. Some forms or styles are better than others.

Eventually, I want to make my own personal list, Tier's 1-10. These are just my thoughts.

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Jaina Solo: Robbed of Glory

Few battles in the Star Wars EU were as hyped as Jaina Solo vs her twin brother turned dark lord of the Sith, Darth Caedus. After being proclaimed the Sword of the Jedi by Luke Skywalker, a revelation from the Force, we all had very high hopes for the only daughter of the Solo's. It is assumed that Caedus was the embodiment of what Vader would have become, had he not been mutilated and restrained inside a mechanical shell.

Caedus, representing all that is dark. Representing betrayal and sacrifice. Jaina, representing all that is light, representing hope and justice. Jaina was set to be as great as Luke Skywalker herself, but that simply was not to be.

Throughout Star Wars, there has been one resounding theme: The lone hero faces the villain with no help from anyone else.

Kenobi defeated Maul, after watching his Master die.

Anakin defeated Dooku, after Obi-Wan was taken down.

Mace Windu and the Yoda each stood against Sidious.

Kenobi stood against Vader and sacrificed himself

Luke stood against Vader, twice, with no outside help

Jaina was to face her brother, and defeat him by her own virtue. Unfortunately, this just didn't happen. Jaina had to rely on Luke, who used an illusion to make Caedus think that he was fighting the grandmaster, instead of his own sister. He even felt Luke's power, not Jaina's, and that led him to make mistakes. Thus was the first strike against Caedus, and it was due to Luke, not Jaina. Had Luke not helped, Caedus would have certainly killed Jaina. Even after she severed his arm, he was still able to unleash a burst of lightning that threw her across the room and unable to stand.

When they fought next, Caedus had one arm and was severely wounded, ultimately choosing to use the Force to contact Djo and warn her that Allana was in danger, instead of continuing the fight, and sacrificed himself.

Jaina Solo, Sword of the Jedi, did not defeat Darth Caedus on her own merit. Were it not for Luke Skywalker, she would have died long before the final battle.

Do we blame the writers, for relying too heavily on the familiar character of Luke? Or did they lowball her on purpose. To me, Luke helping Jaina soured that victory.

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