How do you know that the Qur'an isn't the literal, inerrant, and infallible Word of God?

Surah Al-Baqarah [2]

2. This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

3. Those who believe in the unseen, and perform the prayers, and give from what We have provided for them.

4. And those who believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

5. These are upon guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

6. As for those who disbelieve—it is the same for them, whether you have warned them, or have not warned them—they do not believe.

7. God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. They will have a severe torment.

8. Among the people are those who say, “We believe in God and in the Last Day,” but they are not believers.

9. They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves, though they are not aware.

10. In their hearts is sickness, and God has increased their sickness. They will have a painful punishment because of their denial.

11. And when it is said to them, “Do not make trouble on earth,” they say, “We are only reformers.”

12. In fact, they are the troublemakers, but they are not aware.

13. And when it is said to them, “Believe as the people have believed,” they say, “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” In fact, it is they who are the fools, but they do not know.

14. And when they come across those who believe, they say, “We believe”; but when they are alone with their devils, they say, “We are with you; we were only ridiculing.”

I don't need to know for sure that something isn't true to not believe it. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence to back them up and I haven't seen extraordinary evidence for any gods. If there are any I hope they aren't as barbaric as Yahweh or Allah.

@teaganwallis193:

The Krun is full of errors and contains instructions to kill people.

Yeah, but that's just your fallible human mind's inability to understand the will and whims of the Creator.

@teaganwallis193:

You just don't understand what the creator is communicating in his holy inerrant word "50 shades of grey"

@teaganwallis193: islam is not religion, arabs stone soybois & gayfolk, are u sure u wanna be muslim?

You're suggesting that all Muslims, by default of their religious beliefs, are extremists who execute people that their holy book condemns. I could, by the same measure, say that the existence of this means that all Christians are terrorists. But I'm not going to say that, because it's nonsensical to say that every member of a certain religion is a bloodthirsty, psychopathic lyncher. Some Christians are good, some are bad. In the same way, some Muslims are good, some are bad. To generalize in this way is wildly bigoted and unfair.

And before you start saying that all I ever do is target Christianity, let me tell you, I don't like any religion. To me, it's all bad, and I really don't like Islam as an ideology. I think the Qoran is filled with horrible, hateful things, but I don't attack and bigotedly label every Muslim as evil because of that. Treat the individual as an individual.

western gays parade, they don't get stoned

do me a favour, go parade in Afghanistan

We're not talking about Afghanistan, we're not talking about Sharia law. We're talking about how you are broadly generalising Muslims unfairly.

Whataboutisms and deflection are the signs of a weak argument, my friend.

How we went a whole 7 posts without mentioning Christianity dumbfounds me.

if u say muslim stoners are an exception pick any afghani tribe u want, go wherever in Afghanistan u think they embrace gays, please go & parade

And what about the Muslim people living in America? When was the last time you heard of someone in America being stoned to death by a mob of Muslims?

My point has seemingly flown right over your head. Regardless of how often minorities are mistreated in Muslim-majority countries, you should not be generalising and labelling every Muslim a murderous extremist. This is unfair and bigoted prejudice, pure and simple.

Side note: what is a soyboy and why was I called one? 😂

afghani americans hold no political power, not that gays parade in their neighbourhoods. U could go dressed as a tranny, give it a try, see how great they react.

Don't worry, it's nothing serious. Most left-leaning people, myself included, have been called soyboys. It's basically a term right-wingers use to describe anyone who supports racial and gender equality, and supports LGBT+

I was once called beta soyboy cuck for saying that people should treat minorities well.

@turtletortoise:

And once again, you gloriously miss the entire point and deflect once more. There really is no reasoning with you, is there? I'm finished with this argument, because there's a good chance that if it continues, one of us will just turn abusive and toxic.

Anyway, enjoy wallowing in your bigotry and willful ignorance of opposing arguments, I'm done debating you.

U deflect, not me, u seem reluctant to parade in muslim countries

@wolverinebatmanftw: that's hilarious

Besides, I'd like to turn the question around on the OP. How do you know that the Bible isn't the literal, inerrant, and infallible word of Jesus? How do you know that the Hindu texts aren't the literal, inerrant, and infallible word of the Brahma? How do you know that Greek myths aren't the literal, inerrant, and infallible word of the Olympians?

Answer any of those questions, and you will know why we reject the Qu'ran.

What is wrong with people?! There is an entire thread dedicated to this subject. Right now there are multiple threads going on discussing religion. It is absurd. You really needed to make another one?

Islam is the absolute degradation, while the Christianisation of Western and Eastern Europe was necessary in order to unite all European ethnicities against the Islamic threat.

• We had the Germanic block on the north and central Europe.
• The Romantic block in the south and central Europe.
• The Celtic block in the West
• The Slavic block in the East.
• The Greek block in the South-East

Christianity did a lot of bad things too, they suppressed the beliefs on pre-Christian gods, they demonized alot too, but they did not and couldn't absolutely restrict our past, that's why when we take our time to analyze germanic or romantic languages, we can find the names of our ancestral gods in our weekly days.

Martes (Tuesday in Spanish) the Greek god Mars, Thursday the Nordic god Tyr, Jeudi ( Thursday in French) Jupiter who is the Greek god Zeus, Freitag (Friday in German) nordic goddess Frigg, the wife from Odin, etc...

Islam had in mind to eradicate European culture and history to its very core till there is nothing left, at least Christianity was more civilized and a necessary lesser bad in order to save Western civilization, however, that doesn't mean that western civilization needs it anymore, we would actually be stronger and more united with our pre-Christian beliefs, and well Paganism is currently in modernization and reconstruction.

There is also a reason why Islam never had a chance to be accepted in Western civilization without the use of force, such as was the case in Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, European people there were forced to become Muslims or be executed.

Christianity was way more advanced, more civilized and somehow there was a good synergy with Western civilization the most advanced civilization at that time in parallel with Babylon, that's why the West is what it's, while the Islamic world continued to live in tents while drinking camel urine till the 50's, while the West already had a functioning industry, theological advancement, a far superior intellectual property, a far superior infrastructure, advanced architecture, etc...

Islam is the most regressive ideology ever, it doesn't promote respect and consideration towards women, absolutely the pure negativity incarnated.

PS:

One more thing, the initial spread of Christianity was via speech, it's not that Europe was violently attacked by a horde of Jews, while the Arabs and Turks had the necessity to implement violence in order to somehow influence a superior or an upper culture a bit with their Islam.

And Christianity only succeeded not because of its supposed initial superiority, but because it was convenient, as explained above.

If Islam would have never existed, Christianity would never have been accepted in the West.

For all their talk about peace, in the end they're just forcing their own beliefs on everyone else.

After all, it's only the winners' idea of peace that triumphs, while the losers' gets trampled in the mud. Isn't it a lot easier and more honest just to admit from the start that you're only doing what you want?

Because it's not, nor is the Bible. No "Gods" exist, and there is literally zero evidence to support they do.

Hail Satan

I love how religious people ask "how do you know we're wrong" as if that statement means anything...

Nobody claims you're wrong or right, there is simply a lack of evidence. This goes for all religions.

Exactly this, is one of the reasons why the term "God" is broadly generalized and relativized, it's because Abrahamic religions are primitive beliefs in nature, especially Islam.

What if I tell you that Pagan deities no matter if Odin, Danu, Zeus, etc... don't really hold individualism like Yahweh, Jehovah or Allah?

What if I tell you that they are the spiritual manifestation and resonance of our ancestry, history and culture? nor individual or collective presences, but rather something in between, backing or representing certain objective and inspirational paths we take in our lives.

When I question you this, of course, we are looking for another term which correlates the mere question if a spirit or a soul could exist, but the thing is that the definition of a soul finds common ground with the term consciousness, and for the simple fact that we have this consciousness we believe in philosophical realism.

Of course, you may be thinking, "Zeus with his thunders and over the clouds, Thor with his hammer, it's a fairy tale", when in reality it all has a symbolic purpose, meant to reflect our strength, love, braveness, dedication, and tenacity as the civilization that we're.

Pagans from the past did not take it literally, it was all poetic and spiritual inspiration.

@abstractraze: Are you asking me those questions, or are you typing in-general?

Actually, many things in the Bible are wrong. Just as they are in the Coran and other religions.

@teaganwallis193: I know for a fact that the Coran is not the literal word of God.

It is completely impossible that men would transcribe the "word of God" literaly, inerrantly, and infallibly.

I'm just saying that it's not fair to just generalize the term God in that specific way, only because one explicitly defines it according to how Christianity sees it in the West, and I'm not saying that you are not being fair at all, but the thing is, how you can know, you see?

But hey, our deities don't tell us what to do, rather they inspire us to do for ourselves. and if we feel that we guided by them, it's no more and less than the spiritual resonance of the collective previous generations that passed us vital knowledge and wisdom in order to overcome our obstacles in times of need.

Ignore the linked sentence, can't change it.

I know and see because I'm able to learn and witness. And I've learned that by witnessing, there is no factual, unbiased and tested evidence to support that any "God" exists.

Yes, it's understandable, that's philosophical realism which is a belief as well, and I respect that, because, without such belief, I wouldn't be able to discern or recognize that our Heathen Gods are spiritual manifestations of our ancestry and the way how we portray them is just meant to reflect and express our might as the civilization that we are.

I don't.

Nor do I know if it's complete bs either.

You cannot prove nor disprove such things and therefore debating that which exists only in faith and belief is a wasteful endeavor.

This entire topic being argued is utterly pointless. Let people believe what they want. We may or may not know the truth when we are all dust under the dirt.

This.

I think it would be interesting if someday proof is found that all religions are wrong and whatever god does exist is just wondering how we did not get it.

@buckwheat:

I can get down with that.

Obviously people who are truly religious don't agree because their texts say that everything in them are correct, but I don't agree with most religious this to be honest. I just don't straight up call religions wrong because it brings discussion nowhere; no member of thst religion will ever agree with you.

@teaganwallis193: What does it say about women and black people in that book?

It's not good.

@whathappened: but then again, neither does the Bible have many good things to say about women.

The Bible doesn't say anything bad about women, from that person's position, which is the Christianity perspective. About the only now controversy thing is concerning gender roles in church leadership positions. But, it does say that it is preferred that women dress modestly and not shave their heads, but, you'd have to deeply know about the New Testament, before you find it; but, it's more a recommendation, not mandatory.

The Bible also doesn't say anything bad about women in the Old Testament. Certainly, the Bible doesn't anywhere state that women are less equal in God's eyes than men, or discuss women in terms of their value.

@dshipp17:

Lies:

1 Corinthians 11:1-15

"11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

So, the status of authority and importance is:

1. God
2. Christ
3. Man
4. Woman

Just as a man should not speak back to Christ, so, too, should a woman not speak back to her man. She needs to know her place. Apparently, simply not having a penis means that she is, by default, wrong.

Ephesians 5: 22-24

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

---

In essence, the Bible doesn't say that it is BAD to be a woman; BUT, it most certainly does promote a patriarchy by which women, simply by virtue of being a woman, are on a lower class of importance and authority than men. That is, simply by not having a penis, a woman's voice is not held into account as is a man's.

You cannot seriously think that the creator of the universe wrote this, can you?

---

Also, that line about hair is total scientific bollocks (and Bronze-Age thinking):

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Nature teaches us no such thing; left to its own accord (nature) hair will simply grow and continue to grow to its maximal length until the hair falls out.

---

It's almost like the Bible was written by... sexist sheep herders.

@dshipp17: Anyway, I have only had, like, two coffees this morning.

Can we wait a few hours to complete this?

Please?

Matthew 20:27

and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave--

Mark 10:45

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many."

Luke 22:27

For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines? But I am among you as the One who serves.

Ephesians 5:21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

I love how all religious people sound the exact same. They use the same talking points and often bring their own versions of Pascal's wager or the watchmaker analogy or the god of the gaps argument, etc. And they all manage to find passages in their texts like the "fool says in his heart that there is no god" or some equivalent that make them say, "Aha! See? God knew people wouldn't believe! That proves I'm right!". I also love that they're all just as devout and just as certain of their beliefs even though they all believe in different things and think all other religions are wrong. Religions are great at causing fear and a hope for redemption. Scaring people with some type of hell, offering a reward with some type of heaven. What was that scarecrow quote?-

"They are a cowardly and superstitious lot. The faithful, that is. Angry and terrified over their own impending deaths, those who turn to myths of eternal salvation to comfort themselves must also assuage their guilt with fantasies of perpetual damnation."

@mcflicky:

you sound the same

@menos_kegare:

Because she doesn't wear a nighty

Can’t we just accept each other’s religious (or lack of) views without engaging in these counter productive and never ending debates about who’s religious beliefs are valid or better?