British European Union Referendum: In Or Out?

With all the talk recently centering around the American Presidential Candidates race (which quite frankly hurts my head) it's time to talk about something different.

What are your opinions on the possible British exit from the European Union?

Are you pro or anti EU?

What are your thoughts on David Cameron's deal?

What do you think of a second Scottish Independence Referendum if they vote to stay while the rest of the UK vote to leave?

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In

@naamah_obyzouth: Care to elaborate?

Still haven't really made my mind up, I'd need to hear some debate before I decided.

@jonny_anonymous: In my honest opinion it only comes down to idiotic vanity, that the UK would even consider this.

@edamame: Wales becoming independent would be a lot harder than Scotland. Most of Scotland's institutions like law and education ect are already separate from England where as Wales shares a lot of that stuff.

@naamah_obyzouth: Well I wouldn't say that's the only problem

I'm ignorant on the topic, ID like to hear some of the arguments before I formulate and opinion.

If Northern Ireland became independent there would be a lot of violence, maybe even civil war, certainly constant rioting.

@jonny_anonymous: As a British person I honestly say that Britain should stay in the EU (Though we should still keep out pounds) because I believe that we need Europe and Europe needs us.

I think a few years back there was actually rioting in Northern Ireland just because the Northern Irish Government decided to only fly the British flag on special occasions. People over there take this sort of stuff very seriously.

Yeah NI is a very very complicated problem that will never be solved.

"Are you pro or anti EU?"

Anti EU.

What are your thoughts on David Cameron's deal?

I like it more than I like him...but that's not saying much.

"What do you think of a second Scottish Independence Referendum if they vote to stay while the rest of the UK vote to leave?"

Quite frankly I couldn't give a toss what the Scots want to do, they've already embarrassed themselves once.

Other than those riots ruining my Christmas plans the absolute funniest things about that whole situation was that nobody other than politicians(etc) ever even noticed it was there...until they took it down it was hysterical!

I still need to become a births citizen to even care about this damn country didn't give me a membership also you British??.

I definitely support staying in the EU, it has far too many advantages and benefits for Britain to lose out thanks to some scaremongers in the British media and bigotted tossers like Farage. Not to mention the benefit of intelligence sharing gained from the EU which is absolutely necessary in a time where Islamic extremist terrorism is running rampant.

So much this. There is an awful lot to be said for strength in numbers. We owe a lot more of what we consider our basic rights - especially those which apply to the workplace and to our own safety - to the EU than many people realise.

@dawnone Yep, Scottish therefore British.

I was wondering when yous guys were going to chime in :)

@jonny_anonymous: Well I don't normally get involved with political stuff but for this, I'm actually going to exercise my right to vote for once when it comes to the EU Referendum. Policies I can vote for, it's political parties I have trouble supporting. Anyway the British political stuff isn't always discussed on the Off Topic boards so it's a change of pace from the Trump threads (even though I hypocritically made one yesterday.)

@lvenger: Yeah so maaany Trump threads on the vine these days. Do you think an English OUT and Scottish IN vote will result in another indy referendum?

@jonny_anonymous: You mean another Scottish referendum? Probably, I know Scotland would prefer to stay in the EU but I didn't know each country of the UK had its own vote for staying in the EU.

@lvenger: I don't think hey do really but they will know th locations of the ballot boxes.

@jonny_anonymous: That's true, I'm sure they will be able to determine how each country voted in the EU referendum.

I personally want out.

@citizensentry: Any reason?

@jonny_anonymous: What have we gained since being in there?

In in in in !!

Definitely in, if an out vote is the majority then theoretically the UK doesn't have to follow the environmental legislation that keeps me employed

Pro. Denmark is a small country and our economy is heavily reliant on exports, so an out of the EU, or a collapse of the system, would be an economic disaster.

Same I think is the case for the UK, who like DK exports most of it's produce to the EU. And I kinda hope the average Brit knows this and isn't letting things like immigration decide it for them.

If anything I think I'm pro an even more integrated European Union.

Is this related to Syria?

I'm just an American, but I've done a lot of studying on y'all's situation. I do agree that this David Cameron seems to be out for his own political interests (hey I'm not there, someone please correct me if I'm wrong), and this deal he's made by going around and getting "exceptions" from other members of the EU, for Britain seems like a steaming load. A load that he can't possibly back up. Financially, remaining in the Union seems the best way to go. Immigration wise I simply don't know if the intelligence sharing with other EU countries would create a tighter net (I'm dubious about this one), or Britain itself taking care of its own security directly (which makes more sense to me (again, I don't live in y'all's system, I'm just noting that fewer more people watching fewer doors should mean fewer people you don't want getting in...but arguments could be made both ways). I don't know how most of you feel about all the immigration labor force from Western and Southern Europe in the job market, someone might be helpful and let me know, if they want. From what I've READ, I personally would support staying in the Union, but once again, I only know what I've read, I haven't had to live it. Any insight would be nice. Thanks for listening to the nosy Yank ;)

IMO Britain should stick with the EU

The European union seems like a sinking ship.

Not really.

It's in choppy waters atm, but it is in everyone's best interest to keep it going. It's biggest problem is the rise in nationalistic feelings that's affected who's getting elected and what they then bring to the table... usually served with a lot of rubbish that isn't necessarily true.

The average Brit does know this, but this isn't really the question.

The debate is whether or not Britain can create its own trade agreements outside of the EU which result in the same, or a better deal.

Hmm, well I would hazard to say that would be a no, if (like I said) Britan does most of it's trading/exports with Europe, in case they leave, they will be in the same kind of position as say Africa. The EU is after all set up to protect it's internal economies, hence why we don't see many African made goods or foods here, Britan would end up being protected against by adding all kinds of taxes on them and making many of them far too expensive to import unless we are talking about real luxury goods.

I'd say it is ofc possible for them to negotiate a deal equal to what they have now, but to be honest I don't see why the rest of the EU should go along with it. Actually I could very well imagine France and Germany in particular, in case of an Brexit, would take the chance to made sure Britan gets a worse deal than what they have now simply to drive home what they said goodbye to.

Well, basically, from what I've heard Britain imports far more from Europe than it Exports, and I believe Britain is one of Germany's biggest customers, so causing problems with trade to and from the UK would be catastrophic for the major EU countries.

There are also already a few Euro countries that are not in the EU that have trade agreements, so there are prior examples of it.

I think the bigger issue is what you touched upon earlier, if Britain leaves the EU it may negatively effect the EU countries and have a detrimental effect on their economies, other countries may decide to leave, there may be a period of upheavel, faith in the Eurozone may dip etc etc, and if their economies are hit then our exports to them will be hit too, having a knock-on effect. Outside of the topic of trade, another problem would be a possible decrease in foreign investment and such if we leave the EU.

The difference is that Germany is not going to be as affected because it is exporting out of the EU which isn't as big a problem as trying to export into it. Plus the German economy is much bigger... and I think relies much more on exports to the East Block and to China than it does Britan.

True, but none of them have made such a fuss as Britan have, and you have to consider how valuable the British market actually is to the rest of Europe, who is currently looking towards the east, both in the Middle and Far. Also there is to consider what the other economies are getting from the agreements and why they entered into them, like Turkey is mostly because they hope one day to become a full member so will take anything, and Norway is built around it's oil reserves so it can pay for itself regardless and so on.

That is true, but I think it's unlikely because Britan is the only nation in the EU who has threatened with this from the PM himself, everyone else who may have people who wished the same (like here in Denmark), the notion of getting out has been categorically refused. The decrease of foreign investment, from Europe atleast, is probably going to be negatively affected simply because of all the extra bother its going to be, plus you never know what new brilliant rules the current and future governments could come up with that might make it worse in order to safeguard national interests.

@jonny_anonymous: In, the arguments for leaving revolve around a sense of pride and self sufficiency that would just land the U.K in trouble if acted upon.

Its a two way street though, if Britain's exports to Europe are heavily taxed, then Britain will tax imports heavily as well.

High tariffs between Britain and western Europe would be more akin to a suicide pact.

I had a quick look, it seems as though Britain is their 3rd largest market, after USA and France.

Germany sells a helluva lot of cars to the UK, apparently UK is the largest market for their Car exports.

The only way to make up for that loss would be a free trade agreement with the Commonwealth.

True, but since the collective EU bank box is so much bigger than the UK's, it's just a matter of time before the UK realizes they have to think of something else.

Not surprising since we are talking about VW, Mercedes, BMW and Audi. But with that it should be pointed out that those are the kinds of brands that might not be as affected since they are the sort of quality goods people are willing to pay a lot of extra money for already.

That would be an interesting option, there are certainly interesting possibilities involved with Brexit, but also a lot of risk.

Its quite similar in a lot of ways to how the Scottish independence argument went really, a case of; more local control over law and the economy maybe being more efficient & targeted vs a risk to the economy due to a possible decrease in investment and trade.