LaT Thor confirmed to be the strongest Avenger, Zeus confirmed to be even greater

This means Thor's victory over Zeus is due to the divine Thunderbolt being a weapon so powerful that it can cast even the mightiest gods/Avengers down. In the hand of Thor, that is precisely what it does.

Also, Strongest Avenger!

@rajjarsalt said:

Hulk, The Strongest One There Is ;p

Zeus was a pussy and the Thunderbolt wasn't anything special against Gorr.

It was the only thing managed to damage him at all lol

So Hemsworth's opinion about his character is some proof now? Ask Mark Ruffalo, Brie Larson & other actors, I'm pretty sure there will be different opinions about this lol.

This is a writer's statement, Word of God, filmmakers etc

but yes, Hemsworth is valid proof, MoM debating has been cleared by Lizzie Olsen statements like the "838 Wanda being nerfed" argument and such

@miguelcervantes: Personal attacks, especially racist ones, aren't gonna fly here. Take some time off the site.

@rajjarsalt: Even if it's writer statement, L&T writers have no authority over other Avengers and Marvels/She-Hulk/MoM writers would arguably say their characters are more powerful. My point still stands.

I'd like to hear that from Feige (or Russos when it comes to the versions of character over which they had creative control).

But the only "authority" these statements have is the regard people seeing them give them.

scarlet witch still blinks😂😂😂

People are upset with this post but it's definitely one of the most valid posts from the user. (Example of other posts: Fight between Thor and Loki might destroy the universe)

It's not concrete evidence, but there's nothing wrong with considering it seriously and literally.

@morghulis: This is from WoG writers tho.

And do!, blinks the ratings of his movie too oops! 🤭

When it comes to overall power, strictly avengers, its probably Wanda>Strange>Carol>Thor. In a fight, however? Wanda>Carol=Thor>Strange.

At least until strange gets better at fighting, because the amount of power he can bring to bear is frankly astronomical and second only to Scarlet Witch.

Raw Power

Wanda=>Thor>>>>Carol>>>Strange

Thor will likely be higher than Wanda once he unlocks his true potential that was hinted at in L&T.

Strength

Thor>>>>Carol>>>>>>>Strange

WoG statement is definitely consistent with the Bifrost feat as well.

Agreed

It’s not Waititi or Hemwsworth but I heard it was a key L&T writer saying this.

@rajjarsalt: There's a difference when creator of the movie compares two characters from his movie and when he compares character from that movie to someone from another movie. First is reliable WoG, second is an opinion which shows intent but isn't a definitive proof IMO. That's true especially when the hype their character to be the strongest, most powerful, etc. If e.g. screenwriter of Marvels will say that Carol can beat 100 Thors at the same time, would you consider it undisputable WoG?

@nn5: I know we don’t agree on L&T Thor but would you say this is pretty decent intent? Potentially adding to the past Gorr>Hela WoG statement from Waititi?

@nassergrant19: It's possible that Waititi/L&T screnwriters wanted to make Thor the most powerful Avenger but any director can say that their character is the strongest now. IMO either Stormbreaker Thor or Captain Marvel is the most powerful Avenger right now if we consider feats/scalings but writer of Thor movie isn't right person to resolve the dispute with his statement (same way Captain Marvel director/writer making a statement that she's more powerful than Thor wouldn't be some clear proof of that).

As for Waititi saying Gorr > Hela, that statement has more importance IMO as he compares two characters from his own movies (plus it's pretty much supported by feats). I only don't agree that this necessairly means Gorr is physically stronger than Hela but that's another matter.

@nn5:

It's possible that Waititi/L&T screnwriters wanted to make Thor the most powerful Avenger but any director can say that their character is the strongest now. IMO either Stormbreaker Thor or Captain Marvel is the most powerful Avenger right now if we consider feats/scalings but writer of Thor movie isn't right person to resolve the dispute with his statement (same way Captain Marvel director/writer making a statement that she's more powerful than Thor wouldn't be some clear proof of that).

Fair

As for Waititi saying Gorr > Hela, that statement has more importance IMO as he compares two characters from his own movies (plus it's pretty much supported by feats).

I only don't agree that this necessairly means Gorr is physically stronger than Hela but that's another matter.

I think it’s clear L&T Thor/Gorr are physically superior to Hela based on the Bifrost pull feat.

Check this elaboration out if you get the chance.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/bifrost-feat-confirmation-and-gorrlandt-thor-stron-2272225/

Also disregarding that feat, in terms of logistics and intent it makes sense as L&T Thor was confirmed the strongest version of the character yet. Matching someone who is considered above Hela would definitely fall in line with strength as it was intended for Thor to specifically be at his strongest.

Also seeing that in the Thor movies, the villain strength always increases, from Loki to Kurse to Hela.

Being completely honest, I think it’s clear Taika easily meant strength in his Gorr>Hela statement but tried to flower it up with a more advanced synonymous word. Asked in a future interview I could definitely see him or another WoG writer saying Gorr is “stronger” than Hela.

Extremely thin margin of confirmation and no reaching tbh.

Anyways I respect your stance and I hope you can at least see a consistent intent with these statements.

Overall power? There is no power in all creation that rivals Thor! Even in his first film, he eclipses all!

@nassergrant19: It's cool we agree on the first part.

I don't negate the Bifrost feat but I'm not good at science so really I've no opinion on it myself. I'll look at this thread.

Still, even if it is the best feat, the characters that were physically stronger than Thor before (like Hela, Hulk or Thanos) still scale above this as I don't see a convincing reason why Thor would get massively stronger in L&T compared to what he was before getting fat. Korg even says in the movie that he got back to his earlier shape IIRC. I know the statements that L&T Thor is the strongest so I can accept him to be a bit stronger. Getting little more fit than he was in Ragnarok won't make him on par with Hela all of sudden though because the physical strength gap between them was just massive.

As for Gorr's strength, he was on par with Thor physically so I don't think he can win a wrestling match with Hela (unless he uses his shadow vines, then maybe yes). It's his other powers that make him bigger threat IMO - instant teleportation, shadow restraints, better weapons. I don't know what Waititi meant but that's the only logical explanation I see.

@rajjarsalt: If you ignore him getting tossed on his ass on Earth, sure

@nn5:

It's cool we agree on the first part.

👍⚡️

I don't negate the Bifrost feat but I'm not good at science so really I've no opinion on it myself. I'll look at this thread.

Cool, and if you agree with it feel free to use arguments from it.

Still, even if it is the best feat, the characters that were physically stronger than Thor before (like Hela, Hulk or Thanos) still scale above this as I don't see a convincing reason why Thor would get massively stronger in L&T compared to what he was before getting fat. Korg even says in the movie that he got back to his earlier shape IIRC. I know the statements that L&T Thor is the strongest so I can accept him to be a bit stronger.

L&T Thor is canonically confirmed the strongest version of the character yet so the previous scaling doesn’t apply.

Getting little more fit than he was in Ragnarok won't make him on par with Hela all of sudden though because the physical strength gap between them was just massive.

Except this is the God of Thunder who was stated to have potential beyond his father who is>>>Hela. He‘s known for having crazy jumps in power. He went from being relatively mid physically in AOU to Nidvaller level strength in IW after only a few months of battle training.

As for Gorr's strength, he was on par with Thor physically

L&T Thor…not IW/EG which is massively below.

so I don't think he can win a wrestling match with Hela (unless he uses his shadow vines, then maybe yes).

In the Bifrost pull he only used the vines to anchor his legs but the pull was all his own strength in addition to one vine which is literal fodder as Thor busts one casually in base.

It's his other powers that make him bigger threat IMO - instant teleportation,

Which only worked on Valkyrie

shadow restraints,

That Thor casually busted out of once he went lightning mode. They are at best IW Thor strength level due to Base L&T Thor being restrained by them.

better weapons

The sword was matched by SB tho

I don't know what Waititi meant but that's the only logical explanation I see.

His word was synonymous with strength. In the Thor movies the villains get physically stronger everytime. Think it’s pretty clear he meant strength.

The fact people are still putting Strange in the same sentence as Thor Wanda and Carol when he has been shown to be fodder

OT: Rn he definitely is because Wanda isn't really a hero anymore and Thor is stronger than Carol

It's because Dr. Strange gets new spells every time he appears so magic fans try to mix and match those for optimal victory instead of using his fighting record.

You can even argue Strange >>>>> Wanda with three simple steps

1. Ignore fights in MoM

2. Images of Ikonn Duplication + Mirror Dimension Smash + Hit Yourself Enchantment

3. Profit

Interesting. Who actually said that?

There is a big difference between giving a vague statement that also includes other characters/writers/directors/actors and giving an argumented, reasonable statement about your own character. Also she wasn't just giving her own opinion, but explaining what the team decided to do with her powers.

That's all subjective, though

By the same metric, this quote is reasonable enough to establish how powerful the king of gods is. Have someone established to be the strongest Avenger in universe and out of universe, explicitly say that he is, etc - so the king of gods, who even Thor fanboys over is packing thunderbolts, and we see it shown in the film.

RajjarsAlt! I have come for thee!

Wanda is the strongest there is! She can beat anyone! Trust Olsen!

Wanda is giving arguments and it's not even her opinion, she is just explaining an aspect of the movie than wasn't 100% clear.

Thor is just hyping up the movie without argumenting anything. Also, like I said, he is implicating other characters, which may be written by people that have vastly different opinions to Heimsworth.

He is just giving an opinion, which is as valuable as any viner's opinion.

And this quote isn't? It's the explanation for how Zeus was created

Ok, so it's not up to her word, it's up to us to decide whether that's true or not.

L&T writer

Her husband will have words with thee!

@nassergrant19: Sorry for late replay. I see we both agree that L&T Thor is the strongest but only disagree on the gap between him & earlier versions of Thor. To be stronger than Hela, Thor would need to increase his strength few times.compared to Ragnarok. It's impossible IMO as in L&T he only got little more fit than he was back then and there's no other reason why his strength would increase so much.

I don't think the comparison between AoU & IW Thor is good. Thor didn't have amazing strength feats in Phase 1-2 but he didn't have some serious anti-feats either so I don't see a reason why he wouldn't be able to pull off Nidevellir feat back then if he had to. IMO it's wrong in general to assume that a character got much stronger than before any time he gets a crazy feat - if said character has no anti-feats and there'a no confirmed amp in strength, I think it's better to assume he was this powerful all along.

I don't think Odin's statement about Thor being more powerful changes anything either. Odin himself lacks strength feats to beat Hela in a strictly physical fight. He could keep her locked with some hax but not necessairly he could overpower her in arm wrestling contest. Plus this quote is all about potential - right now I think Thor still can't beat Hela all by himself (though this may change in future).

As for Gorr vs Hela, I think you're underestimating the power of Gorr's shadow restraints. They were pretty powerful but it looks like they were just weak to lightning. I think Gorr can restrain likes of Hulk, Thanos or maybe even Hela as none of these characters has an energy attack that would destroy the restraints so it will come down strictly to physical struggle. Even if they eventually could break free, it will give Gorr enough time to land a clean hit with Necrosword.

When I said Necrosword is better weapon, I meant it's better than Hela's swords which get destroyed by lightning while Necrosword could block it.

I don't think Waititi's comment implies greater physical strength. "More formidable" and "step up" is not a synonym of "physically stronger" IMO. E.g. it can be said MoM Wanda was a step up from EG Thanos and that would be true but would you argue her physical strength is greater than Thanos' based on that?

Even if is more powerful, Wanda has hax.

@nn5:

To be stronger than Hela, Thor would need to increase his strength few times.compared to Ragnarok. It's impossible IMO as in L&T

I mean his potential is pretty OP and he’s known to be prodigious so I wouldn’t rule that out.

Plus this quote is all about potential

That’s what I mean. With crazy potential like that, massive boosts in power/strength are definitely feasible in short amounts of time. Look at Luke Skywalker who had similar potential to the Chosen One. He went from being Sub-TCW Jedi characters to Vader tier in ONE year of training.

it looks like they were just weak to lightning.

No not really. If you slow the gif down, Thor goes lightning mode to amp his stats and he casually flexes out of it physically.

As for lightning, one measly arm could tank several lightning amped strikes from Thunderbolt. They aren’t weak to lightning unless your talking about the fodder shadow monsters who were killed by the little kids who Thor gave power.

When I said Necrosword is better weapon, I meant it's better than Hela's swords which get destroyed by lightning while Necrosword could block it.

The Necrosword was being overpowered by L&T Thor’s lightning. Which is why Gorr had to run into the shadows.

The Necrosword was equal to SB in potency and matched the weapon perfectly. Yet when faced with Thor‘s lightning the blade was being overpowered to the point of Gorr groaning in pain and running into his shadow. This puts Thor’s lightning on SB’s level of potency. So yes while I agree Hela’s swords are weaker Gorr’s SB level weapon being overpowered by L&T Thor’s lightning is another testament to his massively increased strength/power.

I don't think Waititi's comment implies greater physical strength. "More formidable" and "step up" is not a synonym of "physically stronger" IMO.

I’m always agreed to this.👍

@nassergrant19: Agree that Thor can get more powerful but IMO the potential lies more in him learning & using magic more (like the enchantment he made to the kids in the final fight). Odin wasn't shown to be some physical powerhouse but was definitely a powerful magic user. I don't think this statement implies Thor can surely reach Hela's level of physical strength but I do think he could imprison her the way Odin did (if only Thor knew the right spells).

About the shadow vines, it could be that Thor broke free with his strength or the lightning cloak around him just weakened them. Btw the vines seemed to be different in strength - in New Asgard Thor could break out of them even without the lightning mode IIRC while he needed Thunderbolt to damage the one that held Stormbreaker during final fight. Actually the fact that he had to use Thunderbolt to free Stormbreaker means that he couldn't rip off the restraints with his physical strength or lightning so this kinda proves my point.

I don't think we can compare lightning & Stormbreaker destructive power like that. This just means the lightning has more force than Thor attacking with hammer, not that it can cut through things the same way sharp Uru blade does.

When it comes to meaning of 'formidable', you have point but still 'strong' is listed after like two doznes of more appropriate words, and some of the words here are really weird - like 'wizard', 'magic' are words similar to formidable according this too.

@nn5:

Agree that Thor can get more powerful but IMO the potential lies more in him learning & using magic more (like the enchantment he made to the kids in the final fight).Odin wasn't shown to be some physical powerhouse but was definitely a powerful magic user.

Nah Odin was stated to physically be above every Asgardian including Thor in MCU canon. I believe @rajjarsalt has the scan. Not to mention he demolished Surtur in a physical battle to the point of crippling him. Raj also has the scans confirming his wounds came from Odin and we all know Hela is fodder to Surtur.

I don't think this statement implies Thor can surely reach Hela's level of physical strength

I mean he‘s already above her with the Bifrost feat and even if you don’t agree he’s stronger now, at the rate he’s going he’ll easily be above. Especially when he has his on-screen strength bouts with MCU Hercules.

but I do think he could imprison her the way Odin did (if only Thor knew the right spells).

Thor overpowered Odin’s spell on accident while pre-awakened. Insane potential so yeah but when he fully matures I think he’ll easily be able to do it physically.(I think he does it high-diff now)

About the shadow vines, it could be that Thor broke free with his strength or the lightning cloak around him just weakened them.

Not really, because under Waititi directing, Thor’s lightning mode amps his stats. He physically busted free. If it was the cloak he wouldn’t need to move his arms/flex his shoulders etc.

Btw the vines seemed to be different in strength - in New Asgard

Yes because he wasn’t at his strongest there. Only in the Shadow Realm is Gorr peak power/strength.

Thor could break out of them even without the lightning mode IIRC while he needed Thunderbolt to damage the one that held Stormbreaker during final fight. Actually the fact that he had to use Thunderbolt to free Stormbreaker means that he couldn't rip off the restraints with his physical strength or lightning so this kinda proves my point.

Wrong actually. The reason that hands weren’t broken due to

1. Thor not even using lightning mode to amp his stats like when he fought Gorr in that same scene. Man wasn’t serious.

2. SB itself was resisting Thor due to being stuck on Bifrost. Thor even asks SB what’s wrong with you.

I don't think we can compare lightning & Stormbreaker destructive power like that. This just means the lightning has more force than Thor attacking with hammer, not that it can cut through things the same way sharp Uru blade does.

Not really. Since SB is an energy weapon. Thor coats the blade in energy that is confirmed more powerful than Mjolnir per WoG. SB has energy potency when wielded by Thor and this same potency can oneshot Thanos. However in IW Thor’s lightning was tanked and simply ragdolled him. In L&T Thor’s lightning overpowers a weapon equal to one that could oneshot Thanos.

When it comes to meaning of 'formidable', you have point but still 'strong' is listed after like two doznes of more appropriate words,

True but you have to use logical deduction here.

1. We’ve established in the Thor films every villain is physically stronger than the next.

2. Gorr is a physical fighter with a sword who spends 99% of his fights with Thor punching, grappling and slashing.

3. We obviously know the weird non-applicable words are in reference to a “formidable” description to something in that category or subject. A subject Gorr has no relation to and clearly wasn‘t in the faintest inclining of the intent behind the WoG power-scaling statement.