With no intel Adam would likely target Thing first. That's his mistake when he gets taken down by Invisible Woman.
Basically this.
Human Torch and Mr Fantastic are pretty useless here, except for being distractions.
Thing could maybe last a bit against Black Adam, but Sue is the MVP here.
@professorrespect Prof defending Sue and the F4? What sorcery is this....
Does Adam have any heat resistance feats, Johnny can go pretty hot and has hurt some powerful people.
I think Ben can give Adam a good fight based on what I know of Adam. Although I'll admit my knowledge is kind of limited.
I don't think he has any particular heat resistance feats, he has been harmed by heat vision before, Power Girl losing control over her HV and it going crazy actually KO'd him
Gallery
And Kryptonians HV don't really get nearly as hot as Torchs Nova does.
Ben can 100% give Adam a good fight on his own, we can meme or deny how good Ben is all day long but in the last few years the guy has taken dozens of hits from Immortal Hulk(who hits harder than BA), taken a blast from Galactus, taken hits from an amped She-Hulk(who probably hits harder than BA as well) and taken a hit from a character that can tear apart planets and stars, so yea BA isn't taking him out, especially when BA's most impressive quantifiable attack is a bullrush he did that hits harder then the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs.
Here's how it goes: Adam attacks Thing first because he looks like the biggest physical threat. Thing is more than tough enough to tank hits from BA and strong enough to fight back. When BA is concentrating on Thing, Torch nails him with a blast, followed shortly by Reed and Sue restraining him. What follows next is Thing punching the immobile Adam until he goes down. Torch can help to hasten the process, seeing how BA's heat resistance isn't particularly noteworthy.
@underfire47: Thanks for the info. Honestly I’m not a expert on DC characters and have much more knowledge on Marvel ones compared to them, but from what you’ve shown the Fantastic Four should win easily. If he’s been KO’d by heat vision which isn’t as hot as Torchs nova and has physicals around Bens level he’s going to given a fight by individual members so together it’s going to be an easy win.
Also I don’t think we should take Ben tanking a hit from someone who (IIRC hurt Franklin Richards) seriously.
@underfire47: That's assuming Torch uses his Nova right off the bat though.
As for Ben, while he does have the strength to contend against Black Adam, he is seriously lacking in the versatility that Adam has, i.e. speed, flight, energy projection, etc. I don't see Ben winning, although I do see him putting up a good fight.
@geekryan: Well with no morals he might honestly, morals on i wouldn't make the argument for it unless he was like the last one standing since Nova is usually a last resort for him, especially if others are nearby.
Well he doesn't have to win on his own, just tank BA's attacks, he has tanked some powerful physicals and energy attacks recently, some of which are above BA's capability so his durability will keep him in the fight long enough for Sue to use her bubble inside his brain or lungs, IIRC he was taken out by a similar attack like that before and Sue is willing to do that if she is forced to, she very recently did it to She-Hulk the problem is due to She-Hulks healing factor she just shrugged it off but i don't think BA can shrug it off like that.
BA isn't really the blitzing type nor is he that fast and with 4 people there, it's very unlikely he will go after Sue first, especially with Ben there as the biggest target.
F4 should win honestly in a morals off fight, Ben could give him a decent fight on his own with Sue there she could lobotomize him and Torch isn't useless either as he can go nova on him which would at least stun him for a while.
And boo hoo. This is an open, public forum. If you really want to have a private discussion with ProfessorRespect, take it up in a PM or something.
• Seriously, how dare you?
• After i said Please and Thank you?
👉Meh, get the f*ck outta here.
And as from today, DON'T TAG ME ON ANY FORUM AGAIN.
I know you very well, anytime you tag me, you are not ready to reason with me at all, so why tag me?
Most of the time you tag me on other Forums, it always seem like you are trying to piss me off.
For example:
- you saying ‛‛boo hoo. This is an open, public forum” blah blah blah is a ‛‛Big Sign” that you are not ready to reason with me at all even after i said PLEASE and THANK YOU.
Like i said, i know you very well, this is not my first time of arguing with you.
And to be honest, i don't have time to waste on people who are not ready to be reasonable.
No Offence but it's a Fact.
SO DON'T TAG ME ON ANY FORUM AGAIN.
I already made myself Cleared now, don't say i didn't tell you.
I don't care IF this is an open, public forum.
IF someone tells you not to tag them again or Come between him and Somebody else discussion, you have to respect that person ‛‛choice” because it means that the person is not interested in a discussion with you + the person might even be trying to avoid insulting you.
Now, IF you continue to tag that person even after the person warned you, you are only looking for that person trouble.
And am very sure, that's not what you want cause that will be Stupid and unreasonable.
No Offence.
So as from today, DON'T TAG ME ON ANY FORUM AGAIN.
IF you do, you might regret it.
Trust me, i don't want to insult you, so don't make do it.
✌
i don't really agree with anything you have said in this whole thread, from bringing superman to comparing Brainiac shields to sues, to this......... they are right, this is a PUBLIC thread and a PUBLIC DISCUSSION, so anyone is allowed to comment, if you don't like them, block them.
BA blitzes....with what feats? That one feat he got against Jay Garrick? Either way, he's getting pretty badly beat by Sue considering this is morals off. There's nothing saying she won't just internal attack him to death.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Herp derp, "he doesn't used it consistently so he won't use it here...derr, duh...". I mean, literally no thinking involved here. Just gulp down PIS moments and factor it all in together. Sheer genius! Gotta love it, lol.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
The notion of consistency is the backbone of debates. If you can't prove a character blitzes consistently, then they really can't unless morals are inverted or there's a contextual reason. His son, for example, doesn't blitz at all despite having the same powers, but did do so to Persuader when he was angered by a death.
If we don't care about consistency then you can say anything about the FF. Why can't Sue make internal spikes or blow up the heart? It's IN HER POWER-SET, so obviously it's a thing, for the Thing.
If Ben can tank Immortal Hulks attacks for more than an hour he will be fine to a blitz, if he can tank Galactus blast that can split the mantle of the Earth he will tank the blitz, if he can tank an attack from a character that can literally break planets and stars with his hands, he will tank the blitz, if he can tank an attack from an out of control She-Hulk amped by a Celestial, he can tank the blitz here, if he tanked all of theses things in the span of the last 2 years he will survive a bullrush from BA just fine, with Sue's forcefields that BA wont break through easily either and her internal attacks like the one she used on She-Hulk where she literally lobotomized her brain from the inside, then I don't see how BA wins this unless you really bring in the PIS arguments.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
The notion of consistency is the backbone of debates. If you can't prove a character blitzes consistently, then they really can't unless morals are inverted or there's a contextual reason. His son, for example, doesn't blitz at all despite having the same powers, but did do so to Persuader when he was angered by a death.
If we don't care about consistency then you can say anything about the FF. Why can't Sue make internal spikes or blow up the heart? It's IN HER POWER-SET, so obviously it's a thing, for the Thing.
Hmm, yeah. So, the problem with your version of "consistency" is that it takes all appearances of a character and dumps them into a stew pot and brings the whole thing to a boil. It's like...you never bother to question, "whydoesn't the character use his speed here if speed is an explicit part of his/her power set". No siree bob. It's just, "uhhh...yep he doesn't do it in every other book, so it's not consistent, so...uhhh...we gotta throw it out...uhhhh", lol. I mean it's just lazy debating man. Above all things, writer's write stories that sell. This is why Wally West (post crisis) went on for well over 200 issues and didn't drop 99% of his opponents in the first couple of pages who have no speed whatsoever. Rogues? Hello? Etc, etc, etc...
I mean, I do get where you're coming from but, uhhmmm....but you won't be convincing me anytime soon that that is the correct way to be evaluating how two characters outside the context of a story, don't use their prolific super speed, particularly when that is a glaring advantage over a slow poke like the Hulk. I also understood that Hulk fans have basked in the light of very open battle forum rules since the rules were re-written. A lot of newbies I see around here won't remember, but there was a time when an actual example of PIS was actually listed in the battle forum rules. This was of Superman getting hit by other characters with no super speed. Oddly, that part of the rules has been taken out. Sad, really. Hulk fans of all have benefitted the most (no surprise) because Hulk doesn't have super speed as an explicit part of his power set.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
The notion of consistency is the backbone of debates. If you can't prove a character blitzes consistently, then they really can't unless morals are inverted or there's a contextual reason. His son, for example, doesn't blitz at all despite having the same powers, but did do so to Persuader when he was angered by a death.
If we don't care about consistency then you can say anything about the FF. Why can't Sue make internal spikes or blow up the heart? It's IN HER POWER-SET, so obviously it's a thing, for the Thing.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
The notion of consistency is the backbone of debates. If you can't prove a character blitzes consistently, then they really can't unless morals are inverted or there's a contextual reason. His son, for example, doesn't blitz at all despite having the same powers, but did do so to Persuader when he was angered by a death.
If we don't care about consistency then you can say anything about the FF. Why can't Sue make internal spikes or blow up the heart? It's IN HER POWER-SET, so obviously it's a thing, for the Thing.
The Fantastic Fruit has everything to do with it.
Now cry
It's the Devil Fruit from One Piece obviously, duh...
"When the rules benefited me i said nothing, when the rules changed and evolved over time to not benefit me, well now i have a problem."
I guess he also missed the part where 95% of the Hulk fans on here think Clark beats Hulk PRECISELY because of speed, so the change in rules meant nothing to any of us, nor did it benefit us in any way. The rules didn't change out of nowhere or because Hulk fans bullied the mods or whatever lol, it's because no one in their right mind thinks that every time Clark is being tagged by someone slower it's PIS, especially since there have been multiple in universe explanations for why that is which you can find if you actually read the comics and not just skim through them. It's the same reason for why Clark doesn't display Earth benching level strength in every fight, it's why his durability is not always measured to whatever is the highest thing he has EVER tanked, it's why his Heat vision isn't the same level of heat every time he uses it, etc... there is always more context to these things. Unfortunately this doesn't benefit much the crowd that in the past never liked to debate things more from saying "Superman blitzes" and call it a day, that requires too much thinking and nuance after all.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
I'm serious, idk what you mean by this.
The notion of consistency is the backbone of debates. If you can't prove a character blitzes consistently, then they really can't unless morals are inverted or there's a contextual reason. His son, for example, doesn't blitz at all despite having the same powers, but did do so to Persuader when he was angered by a death.
If we don't care about consistency then you can say anything about the FF. Why can't Sue make internal spikes or blow up the heart? It's IN HER POWER-SET, so obviously it's a thing, for the Thing.
Hmm, yeah. So, the problem with your version of "consistency" is that it takes all appearances of a character and dumps them into a stew pot and brings the whole thing to a boil
Yeah, that's how it's works usually.
I mean it's just lazy debating man
If you say so, but that seems more like a lazy excuse to ignore the issue of consistency.
Above all things, writer's write stories that sell. This is why Wally West (post crisis) went on for well over 200 issues and didn't drop 99% of his opponents in the first couple of pages who have no speed whatsoever
.....that's because the vast majority of them have hax to stop that happening (Mirror Master has LS teleporting, Cold has the Cold Wave, A.I. Thinker can't be touched, Folded Man can shift into walls and into 4-D, Abra can use tech to make himself tangible or just simply disappear before he gets hit etc etc) That's context for ya.
I mean, I do get where you're coming from but, uhhmmm....but you won't be convincing me anytime soon that that is the correct way to be evaluating how two characters outside the context of a story, don't use their prolific super speed
Because it's not consistent. If Adam had dozens upon dozens of examples of clear-cut blitzing then hell, you'd have a great argument and I'd have to concede. You brought up two, and both were in a story where it was made clear that everyone was holding back on him on all ends.
but there was a time when an actual example of PIS was actually listed in the battle forum rules. This was of Superman getting hit by other characters with no super speed
It's not "PIS" if it happens hundreds of times. Sups is not a guy who runs at FTS+ all the time.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
I'm serious, idk what you mean by this.
I'm not surprised you don't get it. You don't get much do you professor-iwisheveryonewould-respect-me?
Tell me, do the people in your life not respect you much? Is that why you come here with a username like that? Engage me because you're here to show me the error of my ways? Maybe regain your respect on comic vine because nobody respects you in real life? If I wasn't saying something that just chapped your little hide, you would not have engaged me in conversation in the first place. Amirightoramiright?
Hmm, yeah. So, the problem with your version of "consistency" is that it takes all appearances of a character and dumps them into a stew pot and brings the whole thing to a boil
Yeah, that's how it's works usually.
No. That is what it has become. It's an easy way to debate because as I've mentioned many times before, it's a convenient argument when Hulk comes up against another brick with obvious super speed. See pr, you don't want to incorporate non-feats into a discussion of "consistency" where, for example, a character with obvious super speed isn't allowed to use it by you because, "that's what it shows in the comic book". This sort of non-thinking man's solution to the super speed argument is lazy because it ignores context, or the fact that writer's are just here to write....stories.
Or the fact that the battle forums are not a medium for telling a story but a place to consider what each character can do when they are "doing their best". In fact, your way of debating flatly ignores "doing their best". And as mentioned, in the case of Black Adam, actually removes his ability to react at massive speeds, out of the picture altogether.
It's silly really.
I mean it's just lazy debating man
If you say so, but that seems more like a lazy excuse to ignore the issue of consistency.
Evaluating what Black Adam will do speed wise (or any character with super speed) should be: "well, how fast is Black Adam when he does use his speed?", not, "well, he only used his super speed a few times, so he doesn't use it consistently, therefore, he won't use it on the battle forums where a plot is decidedly NOT being written." Again, writer's are not interested in consistency when writing characters' they are interested in telling stories.
Above all things, writer's write stories that sell. This is why Wally West (post crisis) went on for well over 200 issues and didn't drop 99% of his opponents in the first couple of pages who have no speed whatsoever
.....that's because the vast majority of them have hax to stop that happening (Mirror Master has LS teleporting, Cold has the Cold Wave, A.I. Thinker can't be touched, Folded Man can shift into walls and into 4-D, Abra can use tech to make himself tangible or just simply disappear before he gets hit etc etc) That's context for ya.
Your so called context ignores the fact that Mirror Master has to think before he does his thing, yeah? Does Mirror Master have feats for reacting in pico seconds? Do any of the Rogues?
No? Then how, logically, outside the context of telling a story to sell a comic book, does Mirror Master react and fire off with said hax before Wally BFR's him to the end of time? And Snart? Abra Kadabra? All the same.
I could give a rat's ass what their hax are. If they can't react in a pico second and the forum rules don't stipulate "shields up!" at the bell or some such buffer, then they go down.
I mean it's nice that you at least know some of the Rogues but tragic that you ignore Wally's power set so you can scream, "no consistency!"
Like I said, just lazy, convenient arguments for another in a long line of butt hurt Hulk fans trying to decry the super speed argument.
"That's context for ya!", lol.
Like you really got me with that, lol.
I mean, I do get where you're coming from but, uhhmmm....but you won't be convincing me anytime soon that that is the correct way to be evaluating how two characters outside the context of a story, don't use their prolific super speed
Because it's not consistent. If Adam had dozens upon dozens of examples of clear-cut blitzing then hell, you'd have a great argument and I'd have to concede. You brought up two, and both were in a story where it was made clear that everyone was holding back on him on all ends.
Again, your idea of "consistency" means the character has to use his super speed every other issue at <insert speed> in order to be consistent. Your way of determining "consistency" asks literally not a single question. No "whys?" or "what fors?"
Lazy.
Again....how you should be evaluating it is: "does he have super speed?" If so, "what is that level of speed when he is going all out?" or "how fast is he/she on the occasions he/she does use it?" especially since, the battle forum rules clearly indicate "outside of specifications, each combatant is doing their best".
but there was a time when an actual example of PIS was actually listed in the battle forum rules. This was of Superman getting hit by other characters with no super speed
It's not "PIS" if it happens hundreds of times. Sups is not a guy who runs at FTS+ all the time.
In fact, PIS happens thousands of times for a character like Superman who does not use his super speed all the time in thousands of issues. Again, you don't bother to evaluate "why?". When there is no logical answer made apparent (i.e., "he was weakened because of kryptonite" or some such...), then the obvious answer especially for a character like Superman who has used his Super speed....LOTS...is that the writer is simply writing a story.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
I'm serious, idk what you mean by this.
I'm not surprised you don't get it. You don't get much do you professor-iwisheveryonewould-respect-me?
Eh? I'm not even gonna go over the rest of whatever you're saying because it's such weak flame bait, lol. I'm just asking about your opinion on the matter, no need to start going into personal insults or whatnot. Would think a guy who's been here for 7 years would know that.
Hmm, yeah. So, the problem with your version of "consistency" is that it takes all appearances of a character and dumps them into a stew pot and brings the whole thing to a boil
Yeah, that's how it's works usually.
No. That is what it has become. It's an easy way to debate because as I've mentioned many times before, it's a convenient argument when Hulk comes up against another brick with obvious super speed
Hulk isn't here. Bricks don't usually have speed unless you go into flying bricks, and that's pretty controversial.
See pr, you don't want to incorporate non-feats into a discussion of "consistency"
Why would I include things that aren't existent in the comic?
This sort of non-thinking man's solution to the super speed argument is lazy because it ignores context, or the fact that writer's are just here to write....stories
What is the context of him not using speed?
Or the fact that the battle forums are not a medium for telling a story but a place to consider what each character can do when they are "doing their best".
Not true at all. Morals on for some characters means they can't do their best, and if we took that as literal as you did we'd just argue whatever garbage regardless of if it would or wouldn't happen.
I mean it's just lazy debating man
If you say so, but that seems more like a lazy excuse to ignore the issue of consistency.
Above all things, writer's write stories that sell. This is why Wally West (post crisis) went on for well over 200 issues and didn't drop 99% of his opponents in the first couple of pages who have no speed whatsoever
.....that's because the vast majority of them have hax to stop that happening (Mirror Master has LS teleporting, Cold has the Cold Wave, A.I. Thinker can't be touched, Folded Man can shift into walls and into 4-D, Abra can use tech to make himself tangible or just simply disappear before he gets hit etc etc) That's context for ya.
Your so called context ignores the fact that Mirror Master has to think before he does his thing, yeah?
Yeah, and his teleporting via reflective substances allows him to do that. Multiple times. It's kinda his thing.
I mean, I do get where you're coming from but, uhhmmm....but you won't be convincing me anytime soon that that is the correct way to be evaluating how two characters outside the context of a story, don't use their prolific super speed
Because it's not consistent. If Adam had dozens upon dozens of examples of clear-cut blitzing then hell, you'd have a great argument and I'd have to concede. You brought up two, and both were in a story where it was made clear that everyone was holding back on him on all ends.
Again, your idea of "consistency" means the character has to use his super speed every other issue
No, it just needs to happen at a often pace. It doesn't.
Lazy.
Again....how you should be evaluating it is: "does he have super speed?
He does, but that doesn't mean you use it. Thor can time travel, but that doesn't mean he does it. He can also BFR, but he never does it either. Do we then just assume that Thor can just time travel in every regular fight then?
but there was a time when an actual example of PIS was actually listed in the battle forum rules. This was of Superman getting hit by other characters with no super speed
It's not "PIS" if it happens hundreds of times. Sups is not a guy who runs at FTS+ all the time.
In fact, PIS happens thousands of times for a character like Superman who does not use his super speed all the time in thousands of issues
Or maybe he's just, you know, not always using his speed to the fullest extent he can? Weird how you complain about lazy stuff but just keep going with the PIS nonsense as a catch-all.
Yes, Black Adam will blitz as it is perfectly within his power set. Again...any arguments made that effectively take part of a character's powers away? Not a valid argument.
Didn't we discuss this way back and you had like....two scans from WW3 saying he blitzes anyway?
Yeah, and I'll tell you the same thing I told you then, you're out of your gourd. If you're reasoning leads you to believe that Black Adam, who explicitly has super speed as one of his abilities, cannot use it here? Then you have a major hole in your logic.
Gourd? What's a fruit got to do with it?
I'm serious, idk what you mean by this.
I'm not surprised you don't get it. You don't get much do you professor-iwisheveryonewould-respect-me?
Eh? I'm not even gonna go over the rest of whatever you're saying because it's such weak flame bait, lol. I'm just asking about your opinion on the matter, no need to start going into personal insults or whatnot. Would think a guy who's been here for 7 years would know that.
Eh?
Wut?
Hmm, yeah. So, the problem with your version of "consistency" is that it takes all appearances of a character and dumps them into a stew pot and brings the whole thing to a boil
Yeah, that's how it's works usually.
No. That is what it has become. It's an easy way to debate because as I've mentioned many times before, it's a convenient argument when Hulk comes up against another brick with obvious super speed
Hulk isn't here. Bricks don't usually have speed unless you go into flying bricks, and that's pretty controversial.
Black Adam is a brick with super human speed as part of his repertoire of powers. Nothing controversial about it.
See pr, you don't want to incorporate non-feats into a discussion of "consistency"
Why would I include things that aren't existent in the comic?
Exactly my question!
Black Adam has super speed. Everyone knows it's part of his power set. He has used it in the comic books.
Why would you incorporate 100's of instances of appearances of Black Adam inexplicablyNOT using super human speed, which he has clearly shown he has as part of his power set, and factor that into your estimation of whether or not he will use his speed under battle forum conditions? It's just utter nonsense and an obvious coping mechanism for Hulk fans who rest their hopes on a brick with no super human speed that you folks promulgate even in threads without Hulk in them. I keep mentioning Hulk, because all roads for Hulk fans like you, lead back to that character.
By extension, someone like Ben Grimm (who I love as a character) has no super speed. Black Adam does. In fact, no one on the Fantastic Four has super speed. No one on the Fantastic Four can think or react at super human speeds. Black Adam is a character with super speed explicitly denoted as one of his powers.
Logically, he will blitz when we consider that the battle forums is not a place where writers write stories.
It's a place where posters try to determine (outside of specified parameters by the OP) what each opponent will do when they are doing "their best" and not stuck within the confines of a story.
This sort of non-thinking man's solution to the super speed argument is lazy because it ignores context, or the fact that writer's are just here to write....stories
What is the context of him not using speed?
It differs from character to character that has super human speed as part of their power set. In the instance of someone like Superman, it could actually be considered CIS as Superman has explicitly said he holds back from unleashing his full wheelhouse of powers. Funny, I've never seen anyone use that argument on this website.
In the case of someone like Black Adam, there is no such explanation in continuity. Therefore, we exclude the elements of plot that come into play. Hence, PIS.
Many characters with obvious super speed advantages have the same problem. Even someone like "god of speed" Wally West gets tagged all the time by characters with no super speed. To factor in those instances of him NOT using his super speed in a conversation on battle forums where plot is NOT involved is sheer idiocy.
Or the fact that the battle forums are not a medium for telling a story but a place to consider what each character can do when they are "doing their best".
Not true at all. Morals on for some characters means they can't do their best, and if we took that as literal as you did we'd just argue whatever garbage regardless of if it would or wouldn't happen.
I'm talking about operating outside the context of such buffers you are describing (morals on) when otherwise unspecified by the OP. In those instances, we operate with "doing their best".
So, yeah. Completely true.
And a "morals on conversation" is a dumb one anyway. It is counterproductive to the whole intent of finding out what characters can do when fighting to the best of their abilities.
It leads to nothing but speculation and ultimately droll, idiotic conversations that fill the battle forums these days.
I mean, to answer a question of "what does character A do against character B" in a fight can be answered by reading the comic book. Why resort to any speculation at all when it's in the book?
It literally requires no thought whatsoever. Lazy.
Battle forums are by design meant to place the characters outside the confines of the plot of a story.
I mean it's just lazy debating man
If you say so, but that seems more like a lazy excuse to ignore the issue of consistency.
Above all things, writer's write stories that sell. This is why Wally West (post crisis) went on for well over 200 issues and didn't drop 99% of his opponents in the first couple of pages who have no speed whatsoever
.....that's because the vast majority of them have hax to stop that happening (Mirror Master has LS teleporting, Cold has the Cold Wave, A.I. Thinker can't be touched, Folded Man can shift into walls and into 4-D, Abra can use tech to make himself tangible or just simply disappear before he gets hit etc etc) That's context for ya.
Your so called context ignores the fact that Mirror Master has to think before he does his thing, yeah?
Yeah, and his teleporting via reflective substances allows him to do that. Multiple times. It's kinda his thing.
Nice try. I'm thoroughly familiar with Wally West mythos and what the Rogues' are capable of.
Mirror Master cannot think, speak or react in a pico second.
Lol, "it's kinda his thing".
Whatever that means.
I mean, I do get where you're coming from but, uhhmmm....but you won't be convincing me anytime soon that that is the correct way to be evaluating how two characters outside the context of a story, don't use their prolific super speed
Because it's not consistent. If Adam had dozens upon dozens of examples of clear-cut blitzing then hell, you'd have a great argument and I'd have to concede. You brought up two, and both were in a story where it was made clear that everyone was holding back on him on all ends.
Again, your idea of "consistency" means the character has to use his super speed every other issue
No, it just needs to happen at a often pace. It doesn't.
Lazy.
Not when it incorporates elements of plot.
Again....how you should be evaluating it is: "does he have super speed?
He does, but that doesn't mean you use it. Thor can time travel, but that doesn't mean he does it. He can also BFR, but he never does it either. Do we then just assume that Thor can just time travel in every regular fight then?
In fact, if time travel is part of character's power set, then yes indeed, there is no valid reason under the context of "battle forums" he wouldn't use his time travel powers.
Thor (for example) almost always brawls physically with Hulk when they fight in the comic book, despite the fact that he has a plethora of other powers that would likely level Hulk. Yet, writers know fans like to see them brawl. They are well aware of the thousands of inquiries over decades, "who is stronger Hulk or Thor?"
So, that's what they serve up. Instead of Thor BFR'ing Hulk or softening him up with multiple lightning strikes, logical options before trying some physical attacks, he brawls most of the time.
So to answer, yes. In the context of battle forums, yes we assume Thor uses every power at his disposal that he has shown he can use to win this fight since (outside of dumb parameters like "in character" or "morals on") the battle forums is a medium for considering what each character can do when fighting to the best of their abilities.
but there was a time when an actual example of PIS was actually listed in the battle forum rules. This was of Superman getting hit by other characters with no super speed
It's not "PIS" if it happens hundreds of times. Sups is not a guy who runs at FTS+ all the time.
In fact, PIS happens thousands of times for a character like Superman who does not use his super speed all the time in thousands of issues
Or maybe he's just, you know, not always using his speed to the fullest extent he can? Weird how you complain about lazy stuff but just keep going with the PIS nonsense as a catch-all.
I love how you say "maybe?"
This underscores my point. You don't know. I don't know. Outside of an explanation in the character's continuity, no one knows.
Logically, that raises the question, "Why wouldn't they since they've done it before?", or, "Why wouldn't they since it is an explicit part of their power set?"
If there is no explanation, then obvious reason becomes plot.
So, just a thought. For those who are interested to hear from a prominent writer on the subject of battle forum discussions, here is a link to comments from a darn good writer by the name of Kurt Busiek.
Please notice how Mr. Busiek makes a distinction between what characters do in a comic book and how they are (should?) be evaluated in the context of battle forums.
Mr. Busiek makes it clear that as writers they "rig the fights."
They are not interested in logical assessment of who would win. They are interested in telling stories.
This is exactly why we don't incorporate instances of characters not using powers they explicitly have at their disposal and NOT using them outside the context of a story like the battle forums.
:)
I find it interesting that logical outcomes on battle forums discussions were considered "boring" by him. Why? Because in instances with characters with obvious advantages, like super speed compared to an opponent who has no super speed, the outcome is obvious.
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