Tatsumaki vs Madara and Hashirama

VS

Rules:

-Alive Madara and Hashirama

-No Genjutsu and kurama

Duo stomps

Duo slaps

U've got to be kidding me? Tatsumaki pops their heads off like a grape.

Nothing short of rikudo bloods is beating tatsumaki in the Naruto verse.

Either of the duo solo stomps.

If Tatsumaki can react to them, she can probably kill them

We are literally one chapter from seeing Tatsumaki's possible best feats. At the moment I go with duo. Madara could solo, genjutsu is a nice counter if Tatsumaki grabs him and she's not TKing perfect susanoo. One slash and it's over.

Duo stomps honestly, that might change later on though.

@gaoron: OP says no genjutsu.

OT: I think she could pull the win with her TK, but the duo most likely overwhelms her.

@el_directo_ said:

BM Minato ain't a Rikudo blood and he'd beat her. Let's CaV it.

Tatsumaki just like most of the OPM vere is extremely overrated, any of the gay couple solos.

@invadedtbd: That could be a problem then. Tats can just ragdoll and TK squash before they go into their megazords.

@gaoron: yeah, I feel like in a random encounter she would wreck them with TK because they would probably underestimate her but if they had knowledge she would lose.

Lol megazords.

@joviolma said:

This. BM Minato would blitz stomp her and he's weaker than alive Hashi.

@rabii99: Her TP also is useless against someone with a strong will, Madara effortless dominated the Juubi which Obito had difficult, and we know he never give up of his conviction for dozens of years even in death.

Yeah, I can get behind that

Not really the best example to use since Minato was the fastest hokage.

@jashro44: It was Tobirama though, he was doing great against Juubito. But I can see your point.

Tobirama admitted Minato was faster than him and Minato showed up to the battle field before the other kages, and that was before the biju cloak. Tobirama is faster than Hashiarama though.

@jashro44: IIRC, he was referring to his Body flicker don't ?Only the VIZ translations says otherwise but the mangapanda translation and anime says his teleportation/body flicker was faster.

@jashro44 said:

Alive Hashi isn't much slower than Minato though. Even without scaling, Hashirama reacting and redirecting Kurama's TBB which crossed an ocean in a panel and Madara reacting to BM Naruto and reflecting his mini-TBB are still better than any of Tatsumaki's speed feats.

I heard that was a mistranslation. From my understanding the body flicker is different than Minato's teleportation and body flicker is what the kages would have used to travel there since neither the second or fourth had a marker at the great ninja war that they knew of.

I don't think Minato would blitz Hashirama or that Hashirama would be helpless but I think Minato is a good deal faster. Both by scaling and hype. Especially with the kurama cloak.

I'm not making an argument for Tatsumaki. I just don't think we should scale Hashirama from Minato.

Just FYI, Tatsumaki just no sold 300x gravity and compared it to a shoulder rub...

You cant compare Saitama resisting her TK to Madara or Hashirama as he would paste them both. So6P characters are another story but not these versions.

@mass:Here ya go, here's the feat :) PS spoiler

Didn't she turn a really big monster into a little ball of meat? Idk think she stomps here

@pmcinelly784 said:

@mass:Here ya go, here's the feat :) PS spoiler

@mass: eh you can compare their willpower since it is a canon way to resist telekinesis in one punch man and was specifically why Saitama resisted Tatsumaki and why Garou resisted psykos, etc.

@pmcinelly784: Thank you, I was just about to put the scan up but you beat me to it. 300x gravity is extremely impressive, its a lot more than anything seen by either Madara or Hashirama. Its just funny that Tats is standing there taking it WITHOUT her passive barrier up, and asking for more on her right shoulder lol. Can't wait until it catches up with ONE and she shows what she can really do...

@jashugan: Its not the same thing. They are entirely different tiers. What Saitama does is >>>> anything Hashirama could ever dream of doing.

@mass: will power is not based on tier. it's in the mind.

@jashugan: then you'd need to show Hashirama and Madara having feats of willpower comparable to Saitama.

@mass: I'm not going to? I'm not arguing for any side in the thread, I only gave my opinion on how you resist OPM psychics.

Bump

Bump

Tats wreck. This thread shows how overrated Naruto characters are.

See what I did there?

This doesn't contradict what I said though. Minato isn't much faster than Hashirama, if he was then he'd beat Hashi seeing as how the latter is not strong enough to tank Bijuudamas head-on in base, which is false, Hashi is canonically superior to Minato.

@rabii99: I think you can be a lot faster than someone but not nessasarily fast enough to blitz.

@jashro44: But if Minato is a lot faster then why did he, pre-bijuu mode, use his jutsu teleportation to avoid young fourth Raikage's full speed When eyeless alive Madara (who's comparable to alive Hashirama) blitz sage mode Naruto whose clone kept up with the third Raikage?

Honestly I can't see Hashirama or Madara having any feats that puts them even close to as fast as those city busting bullets that Tatsumaki easily caught. A lot of basic Naruto speed scaling people take for granted doesn't really work like Itachi timing lightning, the influence of Body Flicker and Gaara's sand being hypersonic, so the scaling for these two seems to lose it's legs for me, but I could be wrong. Their relatively low durability should mean Tatsumaki can contort them as much as she wants.

Madara or Hashira solo lon

@rabii99: I would argue the 3rd raikage is faster than sage mode naruto. Also to be fair just because Minato used teleportation doesn't mean he needed it.

Hashirama also did cross continents using the body flicker with the other hokage's after Minato. He has his own speed feats and doesn't need scaling. He should also scale to Madara's feat where he was stomping all those shinobi with taijutsu. You also brought up Gaara's sand being hypersonic but Madara dodged his sand when Gaara tried to catch him unaware. I don't think Tatsumaki is faster because of her feat of reacting to bullets.

Also not sure if it matters if they can or can't blitz Tatsumaki because as far as I know she's never stood up to anything as powerful as the Buddha or perfect susanoo.

Also not sure I would say Hashirama has low durability. Madara with his cells took a massive beating from the tailed beasts because of Hashirama's cells. Hashirama has a healing factor like tsunade.

@jashro44:

Hashirama also did cross continents using the body flicker with the other hokage's after Minato. He has his own speed feats and doesn't need scaling.

I have the unpopular opinion that the Naruto world is very small, even though I haven't looked at the map for the feat that you are referring I imagine it comes nowhere near continent level. I had my suspicions about the size of the countries when Tazuna, an old guy, walked from Leaf Village to the Land of Waves all the way back at the start of the series, but what really sticks in my head is that during the Kakashi novel the plot revolves around the unveiling of a blimp made in the Land of Waves. Predictably, the blimp gets hijacked and Kakashi is left to deal with a hostage crisis. I forget the exact time scales for the story but it was overall a fast-paced story, something like a few hours if I'm remembering correctly considering at points the hostage takers gave deadlines for executions and stuff like that. The blimp was mentioned to have a top speed of seventy kilometers (though I don't think anyone was actually flying it during the hijack). The blimp crossed most of the continent because the Tsuchikage almost Particle Style'd the blimp out of the sky when it went into his airspace. The Land of Waves to the Land of Earth is like a few hundred kilometers max in my opinion. So the Naruto continent is quite small really.

He should also scale to Madara's feat where he was stomping all those shinobi with taijutsu.

Regular ninja are still well below sonic speed, Black Zetsu said lightning being faster than sound made it dangerous to someone like Itachi and I hear that in the Gaara novel regular justsu were mentioned to be around sonic speed. Regular ninja are subsonic at max.

You also brought up Gaara's sand being hypersonic but Madara dodged his sand when Gaara tried to catch him unaware. I don't think Tatsumaki is faster because of her feat of reacting to bullets

I don't know how fast Gaara's sand is later in the series, so I can't say how that relates to Madara, but I was really saying I don't buy that Gaara's sand is truly explosion timing as a child, which is often the first step in a lot of scaling chains.

It's not merely that they're bullets, they're much, much faster, which makes sense considering they carry enough kinetic force to city bust, they're not explosives considering when Saitama busted them they seemed to just be regular metal on the inside and merely crumpled up, they didn't explode. Even this is ridiculously fast.

It goes from right beside Saitama to well over the horizon that we see almost instantly. Think back to old footage of WW2, you can see bullets/projectiles crawl across the sky even on old timey cameras, these things shoot across the horizon almost instantly.

Also not sure if it matters if they can or can't blitz Tatsumaki because as far as I know she's never stood up to anything as powerful as the Buddha or perfect susanoo.

Tatsumaki doesn't really have to bypass the power of those techniques because she can affect their bodies directly, although I accept power to power she should fail.

Also not sure I would say Hashirama has low durability. Madara with his cells took a massive beating from the tailed beasts because of Hashirama's cells. Hashirama has a healing factor like tsunade.

I admit that I don't know much about Hashi's durability but I doubt he can survive Tatsumaki's telekinesis, which is at the city level.

@jashro44: Just to make a correction, I checked the text and the ship crashlanded in Kusagakure, which is just before the Land of Earth on the map. It didn't cross the whole way from the Land of Waves to the Land of Earth.

@alphaq:

I have the unpopular opinion that the Naruto world is very small, even though I haven't looked at the map for the feat that you are referring I imagine it comes nowhere near continent level. I had my suspicions about the size of the countries when Tazuna, an old guy, walked from Leaf Village to the Land of Waves all the way back at the start of the series, but what really sticks in my head is that during the Kakashi novel the plot revolves around the unveiling of a blimp made in the Land of Waves. Predictably, the blimp gets hijacked and Kakashi is left to deal with a hostage crisis. I forget the exact time scales for the story but it was overall a fast-paced story, something like a few hours if I'm remembering correctly considering at points the hostage takers gave deadlines for executions and stuff like that. The blimp was mentioned to have a top speed of seventy kilometers (though I don't think anyone was actually flying it during the hijack). The blimp crossed most of the continent because the Tsuchikage almost Particle Style'd the blimp out of the sky when it went into his airspace. The Land of Waves to the Land of Earth is like a few hundred kilometers max in my opinion. So the Naruto continent is quite small really.

I haven't read the naruto novels but this could all just be WIS. But even if the continents are smaller than real life continents we still see mountain ranges and such across the continents. So they would still be crossing vast distances in a short period of time.

Regular ninja are still well below sonic speed, Black Zetsu said lightning being faster than sound made it dangerous to someone like Itachi I and hear that in the Gaara novel regular justsu were mentioned to be around sonic speed. Regular ninja are subsonic at max.

Fair enough.

I don't know how fast Gaara's sand is later in the series, so I can't say how that relates to Madara, but I was really saying I don't buy that Gaara's sand is truly explosion timing as a child, which is often the first step in a lot of scaling chains.

Alright.

It's not merely that they're bullets, they're much, much faster, which makes sense considering they carry enough kinetic force to city bust, they're not explosives considering when Saitama busted them they seemed to just be regular metal on the inside and merely crumpled up, they didn't explode. Even this is ridiculously fast.

It goes from right beside Saitama to well over the horizon that we see almost instantly. Think back to old footage of WW2, you can see bullets/projectiles crawl across the sky even on old timey cameras, these things shoot across the horizon almost instantly.

How fast would you say that is? I'm not really looking for fan calcs but I'm just wondering what feats I would need to compare it to.

Tatsumaki doesn't really have to bypass the power of those techniques because she can affect their bodies directly, although I accept power to power she should fail.

Well in the case of Madara he would be inside susanoo. Can she effect him he is inside? In the case of Hashirama he wouldn't be visible to her since he would be on top of something that dwarfs a mountain. Does her TK work when she can't see the target?

I admit that I don't know much about Hashi's durability but I doubt he can survive Tatsumaki's telekinesis, which is at the city level.

Well I can't recall a lot of feats from the tailed beasts physically but in the first chapter of naruto its said the nine tails could destroy a mountain with one of his tails. The whole reason Madara could endure the beating was because of Hashirama's cells.

Gallery

@jashro44:

How fast would you say that is? I'm not really looking for fan calcs but I'm just wondering what feats I would need to compare it to.

I have seen fan calcs that put it at Mach 3500+ but that seems pretty complicated to me, overly sophisticated fan calcs seem wrong to me. I would just look at the fact that Boros's ship is 9 by 15 kilometers in dimensions according to the databook and we see when Saitama is looking at it in one direction that the ship doesn't reach the horizon and there are clouds visible as well. Assuming the clouds are evenly spread out from the ship, which is probably true considering it should be the case the shockwave from the initial bombardment was what dispersed the clouds, then the bullet crossed a distance that dwarfs nine kilometers in an instant. I would say absolute minimum you're talking about Mach 26 if we assume the clouds the bullet reached only equaled the narrow length of the ship even though realistically it would probably be closer to the fan calc in my opinion.

Well in the case of Madara he would be inside susanoo. Can she effect him he is inside? In the case of Hashirama he wouldn't be visible to her since he would be on top of something that dwarfs a mountain. Does her TK work when she can't see the target?

To answer both these questions, yes, according to her respect thread she can use TK on people she can't see across large distance and through tonnes of obstacles in between. It is a bit of a spoiler below.

Gallery

She also has a feat of ripping a meteor out of the sky on a whim.

Well I can't recall a lot of feats from the tailed beasts physically but in the first chapter of naruto its said the nine tails could destroy a mountain with one of his tails. The whole reason Madara could endure the beating was because of Hashirama's cells.

I think that's a bit hyperbolic, the regular ninja of the Leaf were able to hold back the Nine Tails for a time and I wouldn't put them anywhere near mountain/multi-mountain level collectively as that quote would imply. And the Nine Tails is a lot stronger than the other ones in terms of overall power, although perhaps not in terms of pure stats.

Duo stomp

@alphaq:

I have seen fan calcs that put it at Mach 3500+ but that seems pretty complicated to me, overly sophisticated fan calcs seem wrong to me. I would just look at the fact that Boros's ship is 9 by 15 kilometers in dimensions according to the databook and we see when Saitama is looking at it in one direction that the ship doesn't reach the horizon and there are clouds visible as well. Assuming the clouds are evenly spread out from the ship, which is probably true considering it should be the case the shockwave from the initial bombardment was what dispersed the clouds, then the bullet crossed a distance that dwarfs nine kilometers in an instant. I would say absolute minimum you're talking about Mach 26 if we assume the clouds the bullet reached only equaled the narrow length of the ship even though realistically it would probably be closer to the fan calc in my opinion.

I see. Off the top of my head Hashirama has been able to catch Biju bombs with his buddha statue, which can travel far enough away that the explosions wont reach hashirama despite the explosions being big enough to destroy mountains. I can't think of a projectile going off in the horizon like that though.

To answer both these questions, yes, according to her respect thread she can use TK on people she can't see across large distance and through tonnes of obstacles in between. It is a bit of a spoiler below.

She also has a feat of ripping a meteor out of the sky on a whim.

Fair enough on both points. All though I feel like the web comic and manga are different canons. Orochi doesn't exist in the web comic is my understanding.

I think that's a bit hyperbolic, the regular ninja of the Leaf were able to hold back the Nine Tails for a time and I wouldn't put them anywhere near mountain/multi-mountain level collectively as that quote would imply. And the Nine Tails is a lot stronger than the other ones in terms of overall power, although perhaps not in terms of pure stats.

I don't think they were a threat to the nine tails. They were kind of like bugs annoying the nine tails.

Everybody I’ve seen that was discussing how Tatsumaki’s psychic powers work, you’re cherrypicking words from what Fubuki said. Yes, willpower is a huge factor, but she did also attribute Saitama’s resistance to Saitama being “above” Tatsumaki’s Level. Even then, Saitama was still being pulled off of the ground by her, held in place, and thrown underground (and she was still weakened too), she just couldn’t do much more than that. In the similar instances with Garou and Golden Sperm, they were also above Tatsumaki’s level (whether in general or due to her injuries). And we can actually see Golden Sperm struggling greatly, so his willpower must not have been too much beyond what Tatsumaki was capable of holding.

So yeah, if you want to bring Fubuki’s webcomic quotes into this to try to talk about the limits of Tatsumaki’s abilities you have to be both beyond her in power and have strong willpower. I mean hell, Mumen Rider has one of the strongest willpowers in all of One Punch Man but you aren’t about to see him solo Tatsumaki.

She’s literally shrugged of being in 300x gravity, summoned a meteor casually and used it to oneshot a huge monster that was tearing apart a mountain range, tore city blocks apart fighting Evil Eye, and in the webcomic she basically unearths a mountain with the only resistance being Psykos trying (and failing) at fighting back against her.

The only thing I think this duo definitely has Tats beat in is speed. She doesn’t really have a lot of speed feats besides her flying around but that’s not really quantifiable.