Madara vs 5 war potentials(Bleach)

Either can win R1, depends how well the team works together and how much Madara goofs off.

Madara stomps R2 no matter what he does, the team can't put him down or take his attacks.

@temporal_shift: Basically, if he's on the ground then he has the ground to brace himself, while if he strikes in the air, he has to match the momentum of the falling meteor without using the ground to brace himself

@LeoTheGreatest:

susanoo gets destroyed.

WITH WHAT AIZENS SMILE...

And he doesn’t have an answer for KS or Ichimonji.

SHARINGAN AND RINNEGAN SEE THROUGH ILLUSIONS, AND WHAT DOES ICHIMONJIN DO, CUZ ALL WE SAW WAS EVERYTHING BLACK COMING TO ONE PLACE AND OLD GUY RANTING THEN YWACH OBLITERATES HIM. (I.E. ICHIMONJIN IS FEATLESS).

@pmcinelly784:

shinigami use reishi for foot holds.

@zuriel-el:

Ichigo or kempachi can probably do it casually. Aizens smile might just do it too lmao.

Never seen him actually resisting an illusion though Ik he can probably break out of most genjustsu Theres nothing to suggest he can see through KS. To say he can see through all illusions is a clear NLF.

Ichimonji takes away your name and basically warps all your stats to whatever Ichibei wants like what he turned Yhwach into, a “black ant”. Even without ichimonji he can cut you’re power in half if he wants too.

Madara doesn’t have an answer to either ability.

@great_black_star:

I have nothing to prove to you. you are the one who claimed that quincies (quincies aren't strenritters) require names to use their abilities. you made a statement and then provided zero proof.

Shinigami use "true names" for their zanpaktou and "incantations" for kido. quicies don't use any of the above. all they do is manipulation of reishi shinigami use of names start and end with their zanpaktou and kido. given that shinigami and quincies use completely different tools for combat, why in the name of that is good and holy would they both have the requirement of names? you have so far provided nothing except constantly mouthing off the strenritters despite the facts that

1) strenritter abilities AREN'T NAME RELATED OR RELIANT. they are simply portions of ywach's soul which gives the abilities that the strenritters themselves name, much like how ninjas name their jutsu (but that doesn't make it name reliant now does it?). as proof, Uryuu named his ability himself after receiving a portion of ywach's soul. he named it due to the function of his ability, not because he needed a name for its activation unlike a shinigami 's zanpaktou or kido. literally no strenritter EVER has been shown calling forth their abilities like shinigami or making incantations to use their schrifts. it isn't anymore name reliant that a freakin rasengan.

2) ASSUMING it is name reliant (it isnt), the almighty wasn't a factor when ichimonji was used on ywach and ichibei didn't know about it (I ve repeated this point over and over and you keep dodging). why would ichibei try to nullify something he didn't even know exist.

3) again, Assuming that the strenritters abilities are name reliant then only the strenritter ability should be affected. quincies can still manipulate reishi, they still have superhuman stats etc. yet after ichimonji ywach was a complete vegetable. he couldn't even manipulate reishi which as you yourself admitted required no name. he couldn't use he physical stats which again requires no name. he couldn't even use his sword which isn't a zanpaktou and thus required no name. if your theory was even remotely true, then ywach should have been completely unaffected by ichimonji as he had no active schrifts at the time.

Heck even the name ywach which is just an acquired name isn't even name related as ywach had been using his abilities since he was a little baby before he got a name. yet ichimonji rendered him a vegetable.

4) ichimonji is conceptual hax though. there ordinarily isn't any reason why losing a name would render a being or thing "powerless". even unnamed zanpaktou can still have a lot of power depending on the user e.g. oetsu ' s super sharp zanpaktou and kenpachi ' s sword. the difference is using the true name allows you to unleash it's full potential. it doesn't by any stretch render it useless. yet that was exactly what ichimonji did and does.

as for the aizen bit;

1) brother , just stop. the bit about a battle btwn shinigami being purely a battle of reitsu has already been throughly debunked the moment kenpachi was affected by tousen ' s abilities (there's tons of other examples btw). it's about as relevant as the "only an Uchiha alcan beat an Uchiha" bit in naruto. not to mention, every one in FKT was under KS from the very beginning. literally the chapter after, they found out they had been having a bout with hinamori. it not fan fiction, it's a fact. everyone was under KS literally from the beginning and were shown to have been fighting hinamori for the most part.

2) I don't understand the point of restating what I stated "i.e. aizen activated KS even before they got there". my point was why would he do that if he wasn't sure KS could work across dimensions given that ywach who had seen KS before was his target?

3) off course KS wasn't active for most of ichigo 's first fight with ywach. the point was that since ywach has already seen KS, he would fall for it again the moment KS activates.

4) except when aizen and his cohorts went for his trips, it was revealed during the TBTP arc that he had alibis. Heck even shunsui *saw* aizen while he was actually irl, out conducting experiments. Shinji who was aizen ' s captain then didn't trust aizen and always keep him close yet aizen went about with his experiments freely while shinji was still in KS believing he had aizen under his watch

and once again there isn't any proof that KS CAN'T work across dimensions whereas we know that it is impossible for a captain to leave seireitei without the CC knowing about it.

5) ummm. ..

" per your own scans, aizen had KS active even before they got there. not sure why he would do that if he wasn't capable of affecting people across dimensions"

" ...but he did have KS active most likely in anticipation of Ywach's arrival."

-what I said

" Yeah, when Aizen himself state that he only release KS just before they get there? " -what you are saying.

congrats, your comprehension is legit shit tier.

fyi, pls address the numbered points specifically. if you're not gonna, might as well just move on to the next "phase" or have the "last word" cause I m honestly at my wits end.

friendly advice, you really need to work on your comprehension skills.

@LeoTheGreatest:

and do any of those ppl and aizens (very handsome) smile scale to hashirama shinsu senju (the 1000 handed golem that has each arm at Mountain level)

he has sharingan and uses illusions he has rinnegan and uses illusions, and his illusions actually bested shinobi (ppl actually trained to counter illusions) unlike ks that has only beaten ppl in a verse that has no illusion counters. and dude genjutsu has levels, madara can make you hallusinate, reshape reality (izanagi), control (kurama is an example) and stop. the subject from moving mid fight. what can kyouka suigetsu apart from trick the five senses. it cant control ppl in any way, and isnt tested against pp

pl with tp resistance.

ichimonjin hits susanoo and limbo rips the entire team apart (their strength threw the nine bijuu down with singke hit more than enough to kill ichigo and co)

@zuriel-el:

Kempachi is country level in shikai without even trying, Aizen should be above that and country is a lowball for ichigo at this point. Each arm is not mountain level you’ve been playing storm 4 too much.

Madara has never put anyone in an illusion from what we’ve seen he has only used genjustsu to paralyze. You mean “izanami” which he wouldn’t use. Bleach does have resistance to illusions lmao shinji broke one of Aizens illusions in “turn back the pendulum” so stop with the “KS only works in people without resistance”. I’m tired of it.

You must be trolling lmao I hope no one believes that smacking the tailed beasts is impressive enough to kill Ichigo “and co”

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/q-aizen-kanzen-saimin-how-to-break-free-are-you-ag-1935177/#0

Basing on this thread Aizen power is a Genin Genjutsu level. I read something similar in another thread. Lmao at Madara trolled by KS Genin Level illusions. Aizen has no TP resistance and there's no way he can escape from a EMS Genjutsu, lol.

@blonde_legend:

Have you even watched or read bleach? Or are you just some trigger happy fan that gets himself off by wanking Naruto?

Round 1. Madara if he fights smart

Round 2 Solos the verse.

@leothegreatest: Says the liar.

KS feats are below basic Genjutsu. Aizen stated the power and weakness. No one in Bleach has TP resistance while Naruto is covered by TP resistance and counters. Keep up bitching, liar. Lmao.

Mayuri and captain yamamato would stomp those 5 xd.

@kroczilla: Madara's PS never got stronger when he armored the kyuubi. Unlike Naruto and Sasuke's where they literally merged their chakra together, no such merging of chakra happened with Madara's PS and the Kyuubi. Madara had a different reason for armoring the kyuubi which was to stop Hashirama from taking control of the kyuubi. Naruto and Sasuke's merging was for empowering not protection.

Round 1: Five potential high diff. PS is a bastard

Round 2: Madara solos. Limbo is a bitch

Madara used PS to shield Kurama, not to prevent Hashirama from taking control.

@blonde_legend:

I’m gonna take that as a no.

Shinji has countered one of Aizens illusion so meaning they have illusion resistance. Go watch/read on the verse instead of just learning about it from low ballers.

@kayc: sure. Don't even need to type a new point for this one.

both sasuke and hashirama pretty much confirmed that what they did was the same thing madara did with kyuubi in the past.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/651/2

@great_black_star: I m gonna take on each bolded point one by one.

1) How are quincies different from shinigami and hallows? how about the fact that they have completely different weapons of fighting, different anatomy and for the last time, don't use soul cutters. seriously, comprehension man!

2) if you would be kind enough to show an example of quincies needing names, that would be really helpful.

3) How does that make them any different? *chuckles* sure, I ll play along. let's see here:

a) " Coz Ichigo even before knowing his Zanpakto's name, he was also naming his attacks as Getsuga tensou."

at this stage I m legit wondering if you ve ever read bleach or just watched some youtube clips. Ichigo couldn't even use a GT until AFTER he learnt his zanpaktou name and thus got access to its power. Heck he only finally mastered and NAMED it AFTER he learnt bankai.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/161/8

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/161/9

b) " Same name as his Father's name, despite having different Zanpaktos."

ummm... Ichigo inherited a similar zanpaktou spirit to his father and given that his father's shinigami powers were used to seal off a hallow spirit in his mom (sort of), it really isn't surprising. his father even knew about the final GT and told ichigo what to do to gain it.

c) " Yet, they still are name dependent. So, Uryuu naming his own power hasn't debunk anything"

I m seriously at a loss here. what was the point you were building up to? strenritter abilities are fundamentally different from the way Zanpakto's work. more of that below.

d) " Zanpaktos are soul same as Ywach's is also a soul. So again, you still have to explain why a soul is name dependent while the other isn't."

On the one hand, you are finally asking the right question. on the other hand, the fact that you have to ask is further proof that you really need to re read bleach (or at least the last arc).

what makes zanpaktou and ywach's distribution of souls to strenritters is "Personality". let me explain.

zanpaktou are run by zanpaktou spirits who have their own individual personality different from their partners, the shinigami. hence it is necessary to call their names to "awaken them". That's the whole reason names are important to shinigami. cause they are in a partnership and need to call forth their partners.

ywach's soul on the other hand only serves the purpose of giving persons of his choice abilities or even healing (he has been healing people with his soul since he was a baby hence he was worshipped as a god). it had no known personality that needs to be called forth. it is not a partner to strenritters any more than a sharingan was a partner to danzo. it simply gives them abilities which they can then name (like literally any anime ever).

literally every object has a soul in bleach (seriously re read bleach) but unlike other objects, zanpaktou have their own personality. the fact that strenritter abilities also comes from souls doesn't mean it's anything like shinigami abilities. it's more like full bringer ability (which is also acquired from souls but doesn't require names as well).

4) completely misses the point.

you claimed that the almighty relies on names. I m saying when ichimonji was used on ywach, the almighty wasn't a factor hence your theory about ichimonji is wrong.

5) let's take this one by one.

first off thanks for the concession. ichimonji made ywach into a vegetable even before ywach was designated the title of black ant. if your theory was right, then that shouldn't have happened at all afterall, all of ywach's other abilities such as his ability to manipulate and absorb reishi and his physical stats aren't by your own admission, name reliant. and yet ywach couldn't even move a muscle post ichimonji.

and no ywach wad unable to use his sword the second it got hit by ichimonji which wad before he himself got hit by it.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/608/8

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/608/9

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/608/10

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/608/11

I'm not bringing up classes. just the fact that the almighty is above ichimonji and that ichibei didn't know about the almighty. those aren't theories. those are facts.

6) " So is the names of Zanpaktos.... They were made and named yet, they are name dependent."

go read bleach. quit watching youtube videos to compensate.

zanpaktou aren't "made and named". the zanpaktou has its own name from the moment it gains sentience. it's then up to the shinigami to train with the zanpaktou, establish a relationship with it and show himself worthy enough that the zanpaktou reveals it's name to the shinigami. it's far from how strenritter abilities work.

7) " Every thing in Bleach is conceptual though. Nobody can explain why a name is so important to a zanpakto or souls."

names are only important to zanpaktou for the above mentioned reasons. it not that nobody can explain why zanpaktou require names. it s that you don't know, didn't bother to do any research and are debating a series you obviously know little about.

8) " When did it was debunked though? Tousen was an captain, he being able to harm Kenpachi hasn't disapprove anything. Both Kenpachi and Aizen has proven that if one has humorously more reishi than the other, he will be unharmed of anything other tries.

And that is just a possible explanation of why Ichinmonji didn't worked on almighty. I won't base my entire argument on it."

first off I'm referring to tousen ' s zanpaktou ability to nullify senses affecting kenpachi. same kenpachi who while patched and playing around was owning both tousen and komamura simultaneously. it shouldn't have worked if that rule holds any bearing (again, referring to special abilities as obviously physical battles are determined largely by reitsu).

Again ywach WAS far more powerful than aizen. KS shouldn't have worked if that rule truly applies.

same with "the underbelly" working on aizen, gin ' s bankai working on an even more powerful version of aizen who curbstomped three senior lvl captains etc.

there are multiple instances to debunk that statement not to mention, it was made under highly unique circumstances whereby not even the readers were sure what was going on.

it "reitsu" not reishi.

ywach specially attributed his defeating ichimonji to the almighty 's abilities. there isn't any room for speculation or "possibilities" as the author gave pretty explicit explanations of what happened.

9) first off, we don't know when exactly KS was activated. aizen had all of seireitei under KS for years and for the entirety of ss arc (Literally everyone saw his fake corpse which was out in the open). didn't mean he had them constantly under illusions as their encounters with ichigo and co were very real. KS is subtle, not overt.

Secondly, ywach didn't use his almighty against ichigo until after ichigo unleashed his hallow side and merged fully with it. before that, ywach even stated that he didn’t even know where ichigo would attack from.

thridly, read above.

and lastly, it funny how you say the right thing later in your reply (will get to that), then suddenly say something wrong like

"KS being more OP than the almighty". Just because an ability can specifically counter another ability (in this case, KS ' S ability to interfere with clairvoyance) doesn't make it more OP. that like me saying gamabunta 's saliva is more OP than a tsb just cause of its immunity to tsb ' s effects.

10)

a) read above

b) read above

c) like I said, aizen had seireitei captains under KS while he went on trips to seireitei and earth hence he was never found out. if that isn't KS working across dimensions, I don't know what is.

d) read above

e) " Which means Aizen wasn't controlling Ywach entire fight with Ichigo?"

KS doesn't control it's victim. it makes them see what aizen wants. in this situation what aizen wanted was to intefere with the almighty ' s ability of clairvoyance without ywach's notice.

f) " Which means Ywach is oblivious the entire time that he will be put under KS. Making Almighty very limited or weak against mind control."

literally one of the first things I legit stated was that KS was a good counter to the almighty. congrats, this is the first correct thing you've posted in this wall of text.

said mind control would have to have feats of manipulating clairvoyance though. just saying.

g) I m glad to know you are working on your comprehension skills. can't wait to see the fruits.

@LeoTheGreatest:

lol aizwn is stronger than zaraki due to kyoka suigetsu, his destructiv power isnt uo to par. and seiretei is a city, 10 days walk from gate to gate, can yoi walk feom one end of new york to the other in ten days. lol... storm 4 is awesome. but lets go. hashiramas mokujin can take a bijuu dama from kurama (five mountain busters) without a scratch ie ot eibaks kuramas power (five mountain busters) and even deafeated madara prior to the final battle , five mokujin sit upon shinsu senjus head and look like dots shinsu senju takes a barrage of about twenty bijuu dama from kurama amped with madara susanoo sword (each sword being multi mountain) the ensuing explosions of this collision only breaks susanoo and madara is unharmed. is there anything on team bleach that comes close? just how many mountains would you say shinsu senju can bust?

he did pit genjutsu on the shinobi that captured rin put the yhree tails in kakashi and manipulate them into forcing them to obito so as to make him watch rin die, and no izanagi is the one that changes reality (since madara has rinnegan he wont go blind this time) (IZANAMI IS WHAT ITACHI USED) , and no shinji didnt break jack, if he did then hinamori wouldnt jave gotten stabbed in tje chest. ks has and onky works on ppl without resistance. plus madara can genjutsu kenpachia nd ichigo and anyone else into killing the other.

um it is because kurama swatted fibe mountain busters so to knock him over is a feat in deed.

@leothegreatest:

Shinji never countered any illusion. This is an headcanon theory that Bleach-fans tried to pass off as real. Actually there aren't statements nor anything else.

Basing on pure feats and statements Aizen's KS is a basic level Genjutsu for real. Funny. . . already touched this hilarious argument with you in another thread before. . .

@westwood_trevor:

Did you watch Turn back the pendulum or seen you just gonna be a troll?

I guess I’m really going to have to repeat myself. KS has worked on people with resistance. You can’t sense through it. You can’t break out of it by hurting yourself. It not only controls all your senses but your perception of time. Quit while you’re behind.

@zuriel-el:

No due to being being around shikai level ichigo and growing in power while in his chair. You’re own example proves you wrong... if it’s really true that it takes 10 days to walk from the bottom of New York to the top then you just Take the measurement from New York size which is already small country and apply it from gate to gate giving you a good country sized “city”. His golem caught the bijuu Dama and hit him with it it didn’t simply tank it. His budda should be able to be multi mountain but born each swing lmao.

When did he put them under genjutsu? And three tails in kakashi? You mean rin? It was said that he placed a seal or something in her heart like he did obito and that’s why she jumped in front of his chidori, to break the seal. Yeah you’re right about izanagi I got them confused. And he would go blind the rinnengan doesn’t change that. Shinji literally shows resistance physically grabbed Aizens illusion and ripped it apart he didn’t break out of KS becuase he couldn’t it already has an established weakness. And nope.

Sure it’s a feat just nope enough to one shot the team lmfaoo.

@leothegreatest: I believe you are referring to these scans

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Bleach/Chapter-315-005?id=321730#42 http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Bleach/Chapter-315-005?id=321730#43

@kroczilla:

Yeah thanks

@leothegreatest:

Invisibility is not illusion. I give $10.000.000 if someone post a scan that says this was an illusion. The Genin Genjutsu works on the 5 senses and brain. KS works on the only on 5 senses.

Poor Bleach characters. They lacks of tp resist. and illusion counters. Now i wait a canon statement. Go on, ehehehe.

@blonde_legend: an example of a genin using Genjutsu of that lvl would be nice.

and that clearly wasn't invisibility. Shinji literally rip up the background, ignoring aizen. If it was mere invisibility, shinji would have grabbed aizen, not the background.

So you're saying aizen made the background around him invisible? How does that work exactly?

@kroczilla: The scan you’re referring to really isn’t a TP resistance feat, assuming you’re making the same claim as the other guy. Aizen most likely let Shinji see through that technique. In TBTP, Aizen even stated that Shinji’s overall suspicion of him worked in favor of his plans. Plus, you’re forgetting that for years Aizen lied to people in Soul Society claiming his zanpakuto had some other ability. What Shinji countered was likely Aizen pretending to use some watered down version of his ability, but we all know what KS does, and no one in Bleach showed any resistance to his mental attacks. Shinji never saw through anything Aizen didn’t want him to see, as proven when Aizen revealed he had replaced himself with some random other guy for a month without Shinji noticing anything.

Aizen alone would wreck him....Ichibei no need to talk about this hax pis machine,kenpachi well he can cut through everything,ichigo i dunno about thim,kisuke well he might figure out something...To say Madara wins aagainst these 5 warriors is arrogant and ignorant at the same time...You should a put Yamamoto here i would like to hear how madara survives slashes of zanka no tachi it would be a good quality comedy...

@crimson_lord: TP resistant feat? Was referring to the illusion bit. What aizen used was clearly an optical illusion which shinji casually saw through. And there really isn't any proof that aizen let shinji see through it. whether or not shinji saw through it wouldn't have mattered as shinji had been suspicious of aizen even before he became his vice captain hence he made aizen his own VC to keep a closer eye on him (though that didn't work out as he had hoped).

Not sure of any resistance to TP in the narutoverse either. IT was considered unstoppable same as Shusui's Genjutsu which were both pure TP. Genjutsu isn't necessarily TP.

Alo correct me if I m wring but iirc most of the Genjutsu in naruto were also optical illusions for the most parts e.g. hashirama 'ss darkness Genjutsu, 2nd mizukage 's mirage Genjutsu, the Genjutsu anko used on the genins in boruto etc.

as far as I recall, only skilled sharingan users and IT have shown illusions to the extent of KS.

@kroczilla: my bad, chief. Didn’t mean to misconstrue your argument.

As far as Shinji making Aizen his VC, Aizen, in typical Aizen fashion, claims he made Shinji his captain and not the other way around. It benefitted his schemes. I believe there’s proof he let Shinji see through it since Aizen’s ability is uncounterable in Bleach. Aizen’s ability obviously isn’t optical illusions, but rather actual TP where he controls everything you sense. I believe he claimed initially his power was an optical illusion according to Isane, but that was never true in the first place.

I’m not a genjutsu expert, but all genjutsu was at least stated to basically work by affecting the brain and senses. An optical illusion doesn’t necessarily involve the brain, as optical illusions such as after images or various light reflection affects can occur in real life without anyone hijacking your brain. And as for genjutsu in Naruto in general, it obviously delves much further into TP than mere illusion casting or optical illusions. Various genjutsu have physical binding effects, mind control/brainwashing, mind reading, transferring consciousness (If what Ino does is classified as genjutsu), knocking people out, and for some reason reality warping... But yeah I agree that Sharingan typically stands above other types of genjutsu in the series. And I can’t say much about those examples you used. They do seem more physical than mental, but idk.

@kroczilla: Creating visual illusions like KS? Kakashi during the first training with his Team 7. Boom.

Rain Village Genin trio during the Forest of Death. Boom.

Those 2 Shinobi at the beginning of the first teat of Chunin Exam. Boom.

And that clearly wasn't an illusion. Unless you can prove that with something canon. Pretty impossible since it's an unnamed and unexplained thing.

Aizen stated how his illusion works and it's something that Shinobi are trained to do and counter during their first years as Shinobi. If KS in Bleach = low tier Genjutsu in Naruto that's not my fault. Let alone EMS Genjutsu! Saying KS is comparable or higher than a Sharingan Genjutsu is an horrible stupidity.

Furthermore if Bleach characters lacks of any type of resistance or counters against visual illusions, while Naruto characters has resistance and counters, again that's not my fault. Boom.

@crimson_lord: yeah. Aizen was the one who "picked" shinji as his captain precisely coz he knew shinji was dangerous and clearly saw past aizen ' s BS unlike everyone else in seireitei.

the shocked expression on aizen ' s face when shinji tore through the illusion makes it more likely that he didn't allow shinji to see him on purpose, doubt he was feigning the expression as shinji was nt already past him and didn't even bother actually looking at him. he even called shinji a "scary person".

I m generally with you on the Genjutsu bit. Just saying that a lot of Genjutsu don't work like TP as some might suggest yet are still very effective. Also, what Ino uses isn't classified as Genjutsu. It's a completely different form of ninjutsu.

Genjutsu can't mind read or transfer conciousness though it can do all the other things though usually when it's Genjutsu from powerful sharingan users.

When Shinigami are taught to casually remove illusions

When people now say Basic Genjutsu>Omniscience

@blonde_legend:

Again go check out the source material before posting things you saw from another thread. None of those are stronger than KS and Shinji countered an illusion already. You obviously didn’t know this but KS also distorts your perception of time.

You’re obviously a troll who doesn’t know about bleach and instead of asking for feats or watching and reading the series to find out yourself you decide to lowball everything bleach.

You might as well leave the thread becuase I know your next post is more than likely gonna be a dumbass insult and some more naruto wank mixed in with some bleach insults.

@kroczilla:

yeah. Aizen was the one who "picked" shinji as his captain precisely coz he knew shinji was dangerous and clearly saw past aizen ' s BS unlike everyone else in seireitei.

the shocked expression on aizen ' s face when shinji tore through the illusion makes it more likely that he didn't allow shinji to see him on purpose, doubt he was feigning the expression as shinji was nt already past him and didn't even bother actually looking at him. he even called shinji a "scary person".

Tbh, when I jumped into this conversation, I assumed you were taking that feat and trying to say Bleach characters can resist genjutsu. If you only think Aizen's technique that Shinji saw through is an optical illusion of some sort, I can agree to disagree on the minor sub points to save us both some time.

I m generally with you on the Genjutsu bit. Just saying that a lot of Genjutsu don't work like TP as some might suggest yet are still very effective.

Seeing through an optical illusion isn't enough to say a character can counter genjutsu, since there are plenty of mind based applications to genjutsu. Anytime an ability has an effect on the mind, it's a TP based ability. Of course, not everyone who has TP is Xavier or Jean tier, but it's still included. And genjutsu was described as affecting the brain and senses. There are plenty of examples to show that genjutsu is more than optical illusions and that they affect the brain.

Even the genin group from the forest of death Naruto and company fought:

Gallery

You can see they are more than optical illusions, as Naruto feels as though he punched them and there's a sound effect produced as though he came in contact with them. This is genjutsu being applied to other senses after the brain is already under the enemy's control. Not all TP is brainwashing afterall. This type of sensory manipulation is TP.

Tayuya's sound based genjutsu physically binds Shikamaru and causes him to feel pain, because the genjutsu is affecting his mind to make him think he is physically bound and his arm is melting:

Gallery

Jiraiya's says his sound based genjutsu has bound Pain's Psyche:

Gallery

And you already agree that Sharingan can do that, but just for good measure, here is sharingan illusions causing physical damage (mentally) and characters being unable to move after their mind thinks they've been damaged. (obviously Bee recovered with help from his Bijuu).

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And I didn't see this top statement before from your earlier post, so I'll address it below with the rest.

Not sure of any resistance to TP in the narutoverse either. IT was considered unstoppable same as Shusui's Genjutsu which were both pure TP. Genjutsu isn't necessarily TP.

Also, what Ino uses isn't classified as Genjutsu. It's a completely different form of ninjutsu.

You're right. It's not classified as genjutsu, but you'd obviously agree it's an application of TP right? Obito himself has feats of shaking that off nigh effortlessly and even when Ino did the technique again after being amped by Naruto's Kyubi chakra, she was only able to hold Obito briefly before becoming exhausted. That's TP resistance and in fact shaking off normal genjutsu should be considered a TP resistance feat as well, since it is a mental assault. I don't think anyone has ever said genjutsu resistance can shake of TP from power planetary telepaths or anything, but it's a clear resistance for those characters who have the feats. IT being unstoppable is because there are practically no planetary TP resistance feats. And Shusui's Genjutsu not being able to be broken is a testament to it's own power and not lack of TP resistance for the verse.

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Genjutsu can't mind read or transfer conciousness

My bad, I was thinking about that guy Aoba. What he does is not labeled as genjutsu either.

lol at people saying mando loses both rounds, apparently no one's making a case considering someone has and has already proven why the team loses both rounds.

@killerwasp:

Apparently you haven’t read the other post then.

Lol @Madara winning both rounds

@crimson_lord: *chuckles* even I know when to concede. Though I think you might have skipped over what I was getting at i.e. even optical illusions are very effective in the narutoverse such as the 2nd mizukage ' s clamp mirage Genjutsu. I know Genjutsu affects the brain but my major problem with calling resisting Genjutsu TP resistance is the methods by which Genjutsu is dispelled e.g. causing yourself pain, chakra disruption etc. which I don't see working against more traditional forms of TP.

I do believe that Genjutsu based on its description and known methods of breaking it, wouldn't be as effective in the bleach verse as some might believe due to the fact that it can be broken by a partner interfering with your chakra flow. Shinigami with shikai are basically fighting with such a partner all the time (i.e. their zanpaktou) and not just supply but also gain reitsu from said partner. They are basically like jinchurikis who are practically immune to Genjutsu.

Excellent post though.

Round 1 Madara got no chance, Kenpachi is a monster himself and would probably cut him in half

Round 2 I'd give it to Madara, far too powerful for anyone of them to deal with, Aizen and Ichigo should be above Shikai Kenpachi in terms of power, however who knows how powerful in raw power Bankai Kenpachi is, practically rip Gerard arm off with his teeth and Gerard was able to go toe to toe with Kenpachi before hand.

But Madara with 10 tails is simply too much, can only see Yhwach dealing with him, and even then, I don't see him winning their since he wasn't impressive at all with his offensive power against Ichigo

@leothegreatest: Oh I have, because clearly he's made a solid case for Madara and so far. I haven't seen as strong of a case made for the team.

@kroczilla:

Though I think you might have skipped over what I was getting at

Whoops! That'll happen from time to time lol. My bads.

Excellent post though.

Thanks my dude! See you around! :)

@LeoTheGreatest:

aizen cant beat kenpachi without ks, thats fact, face it.

i asked whether you can walk from one end of new york to another, i never said you can.

and after which the golem was engulfed in the explosion.

the budha should be what?

he did put them under genjutsu (do younot know anything about the verse youre arguing against)

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/675/10

he placed aseal on rins heart but the others (save kakashi) were under genjutsu being controlled by madara.

i want the scan of shinji breaking ks. because during the battle between aizen

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/387/11

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/387/14

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/387/15

(as you can see shinjis abilities dont come close to a basic genjutsu which is power over all five senses, wait thats what ks is isnt it).

and the captains you literally see shinji asking when did you use ks.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/391/21

(they, including shinji think they got him).

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/12

(Shinji deigned to boast to gin).

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/14

(but they stabbed hitaugayas girlfriend).

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/15

(is that the look of one who can break ks).

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/18

(when did you use kyouka suigetsu).

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/19

(when wasnt i using it punk).

SHINJI... DONT SCREW WITH AIZEN, HIS POWER IS ACTUALLY BASE GENJUTSU LEVEL. UNLIKE YOURS (optical illusion).

and getting hit twice or repeatedly by things they cant see. having the power to topple the nine biju. team bleach will die.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/392/23

obviously shinji can break ks, thats why he is one of those guys bleeding behind aizen as the fall to the ground.

What you said here makes no sense. Your senses are directly linked to your brain. The two are not mutually exclusive. Everything we see, hear, smell and touch is information gathered by parts of the body and then processed and interpreted by the brain. Your eyes take in light and your brain forms that into an image. We can see images in our minds with our eyes closed. Again, the brain. The whole concept of an optical illusion is to fool the brain by manipulating light and motion in various

If your brain is telling you that there is the huge gorilla in front of you, that is what you will see despite it not being real

@GXrevs06:

a mirage is a form of optical illusion. is that also manipulating the brain.