Galaxy at War 2.

Sith Empire; pre-Great Galactic War peak.

Confederacy of the Independent Systems; At Peak.

Galactic Republic; Clone wars Era at Peak.

Galactic Republic; Great Galactic War era at peak.

Thrawn's Confederation; At Peak.

vs

Orks; Whole Third War for Armageddon invasion force.

Reapers Mass Effect; At peak.

United Federation of Planets: At peak.

Terran Dominion; At peak.

Covenant Empire; At peak.

Ancients; At peak.

Leaders of the Factions; Commanding the forces only due to a few being very op.

Team 1

Sith Empire- Darth Malgus.

Confederacy of the Independent Systems- General Grievous.

Galactic Republic Clone Wars- General Obi-won Kenobi.

Galactic Republic Old Republic- Jedi Satele Shan

Thrawn's Confederation- Grand Admiral Thrawn.

Team 2

Orks- Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.

Reapers- Saren Arterius.

United Federation of Planets- Captain James T. Kirk.

Terrain Dominion- General Horace Warfield

Covenant Empire- Rtas 'Vadum

Ancients- Whom ever is in charge or was in charge in their prime.

Rules of War.

1. All forces work together no in fighting.
2. Galaxy is cut in half.
3. No prep
4. Random Encounter
5. No TP or TK unless it requires the actual ships or units of theres to move; orks for example use a tiny bit of warp energy to power their ships because logically they don't. That is excepted nothing else such as crushing ships, forming storms, etc. is allowed.
6. All out war includes land fights also not just naval fights.
7. To win each side has to completely defeat their enemies.
8. Shared tech is allowed; not suggested though especially during the beginning time period of the war.
9. No op weapons are allowed.
10. In character; no morals and all lore is allowed.

Landscape of War; Our galaxy.

Star Wars Representatives @jedixman@the_imperator@dccomicsrule2011@juiceboks@deathstroke19@The_Deathstroker@shootingnova@i_like_swords@wolfrazer@darth_necray@itzxsloth345@burnface@okayalright_44@erkan12@jkbart@penderor@_raptor_@spartankobe@beingfatissupercool@juiceboks@thevivas@imboredletsdebate@rebel_leader1@fetts@shadowpro@darkdefender@ninjawarrior268@shawnbaby

Star Trek Representatives @the_imperator@betatesthighlander1@johnnyz256@bruxae@princearagorn1@616vulture

Mass Effect Representatives@darkazrael999 @bruxae@indiecomicsftw

Warhammer Representatives @indiecomicsftw@hellionvulcan@strider92@chaos_prime@pierpat@wut@chibi_cute@andreysemyonov1337

Star Craft Representatives@dratini1331@bruxae@tparks@diredrill@boringperson@deadmanwalkin@doom_phd@the_titan_lord@clark_el

Killzone Representatives@jwwprod

Pretty sure this is against the rules. Too many people and variables in this fight.

@imboredletsdebate: Eh no it isnt against the rules thats a universe vs a universe, not factions per say. However the amount of stuff going on in here is... wow LOL @aressword you need to just pick a commander or two, i understand leadership is important in all, but seriously too many staff too many orders, too many uh stuff lol. I suggest just using the leader of each of them to answer this or at least a famous commander or so. Anyway prolly leaning towards the star wars side.

Thrawn solos with hax fleet tactics. No but really...so many things going on at once...so...many...things..

@wolfrazer: @killerwasp: Fine, ill lower the leadership for this match to one leader will that clear things up a bit.

Uh... team 2 has been pretty gimped. Reapers/Federation/ISA/Helghast don't play on the level of the others in terms of fleet capability. Especially Reapers. They are not even in the megaton. The Orks, by far, bring the strongest ships to their side... perhaps luckily for them as they love to ram, Star Wars tends to have their naval engagements fairly close range. (Close being a subjective term.)

Besides that, I am assuming you are equalizing power for Team 1? As especially by the time of the Galactic Empire and afterwards stuff from the Old Republic is outdated.

So... how many ships the Orks are bringing is what is going to be important. I believe the initial attack was 50 kroozers, 300 escorts, and 4 hulks.

I think in total it was 12-16 hulks, 2+ escorts (600m to over 1k in size), 200-400 Kroozers.

(For those that don't know, it would go Hulks are Capital Ships, Kroozers would be frigates and destroyers, while escorts would be small 'gunships')

So... the war would be confusing. If you don't equalize fire power, Star Wars is going to have to do some heavy modifcation to the old republic ships to get them up to standard while everyone besides the Orks on their team needs to get their butts into gear. (I bet that would be annoying, your tech is worse then guys who just throw scrap metal together and call it good.)

Technically speaking, this war would never end. The Orks cannot truly be exterminated, or at the very least, it is highly unlikely, but the first battle would really decide the entire war. If the Ork fleet is capable of routing most of the Star Wars forces via superior armor and weaponry then they will keep pushing on as the Orks continue to populate and create more ships of war to lead the WAAAGH!, luckily, even if this was the case, the Star Wars side could take it ground side and lure orks into a prolonged war.

On the flip side, Star Wars has vastly superior FTL, so they can outmaneuver team 2, this isn't a big deal for the Orks, Reapers (Who are only worthy here if Sith/Old Republic firepower is still the level it was during KotOR), and maybe Federation depending on how many of their military vessels have those replicators on them, but it is for the others with them as they need supply lines in order to function. In my humble opinion, team 2 is going to lose. The Orks will be hard to deal with, but using high-end star wars ICS (200 gigaton acclamator) they should be able to hold their own well enough for the Orks to start in fighting and just becoming a part of the Star Wars Universe as they are in 40k.

To Recap: Everyone on team 2, save for the Orks, are going to get slapped. Old Republic/Sith Empire add little to their side until their weapons are changed with the newer ones. Team 1 and Orks duke it out for awhile, ork spores get spread, something happens that shatters the WAAAGH (Via ork infighting or Star War's finds a way to take out Thraka), and Orks become a major nuisance, and very enjoyable, part of the Star Wars Universe.

The initial naval engagement is going to be awesome.

@wut: No in fighting the orks would stay with it until the end. I know that sounds VERY unorky, yet the claim would be they'd become rather annoyed with team one's forces. I added the old sith republic and the old Galactic republic due to lower damage out put i doubt they are going to be hitting over megaton range. With that said they could only take so much as well. I feel the Federation and the others also provide a lot of fire power for the lesser star wars factions while Admiral thrawn and his fleet duke it out with the orks. This is simply what i was thinking at the time if it is wrong fair enough. If not then well I guess it's going to be an interesting topic. If team 2 is so useless whom would you recommend should be on their side from different sci fis I don't want to use any more ophammer honestly.

@wut: Well this is the fleet from the third war.... sooo.... Yeah thats a lot of ork ships lol.

@aressword: Yea, if they are in the KoTOR firepower they are kilotons if the bombardment of Taris is anything to go by. (Probably why the Mandalorians used Nukes when bombarding planets. But weaponry tech should have increased because of the Great War, so I wouldn't demand proof if someone was throwing around low-megaton).

I only say useless in the confines of this thread as Orks and the more 'modern' Star Wars factions are throwing larger firepower then the others can manage. (Especially Ork Hulks, those things are stupidly durable. Firing Nova Cannons, one of the most powerful guns the IoM has, at a Hulk is said to be throwing eggs at a wall.)

As much as I would love to see Peacekeepers from FarScape in this, they don't have the firepower to do this.

You can take out the ISA/Helghast, while their universe is very cool, they don't have the fleet feats needed to really debate much. You can replace them with the Vong (SW), Asgard (Stargate) or the Ancients (Stargate) might be interesting I don't recall many of their military feats, even the covenant would be fine if you wanted to go more mainstream.

Federation and Terrans should be fine. Terrans will probably contribute more to the ground wars then the space.

@wut: Ill take out ISA and Helghast. and add Ancients and what about Earth Alliance from B5?

even the covenant would be fine if you wanted to go more mainstream.

We've had this talk before.. You even said it yourself that the Covenant wouldn't be able to do jack against star wars ships?.

@aressword: Against the modern ones? No, but the covies would fare better against the old republic then the ISA/Helghast thanks to stronger weaponry, shields, and a larger fleet then those two (ISA/Hel) bring. (I was trying to find better races that could fill the ISA/Helghast slot... they won't be as strong as the Orks or more modern SW because most of the other Sci-Fis are either weaker or wayyyyy stronger.)

Nah, The Earth Alliance are meh. I would, honestly, put them in the same tier as Post-War UNSC.

@wut: Actually i'd say even the modern ones the Covenant can stand up to. The Post-War UNSC capital ships ( im sure there is bound to be more built ) are actually great, and quite large, which allows them to carry more effective mac cannons, because are not one thing, they have different versions and different sizes. The UNSC ship is suppose to be able to match that even the Covenant Super Carrier which is shown to not even take any real damage from Mac cannons as well. Let alone their smaller versions, the battleships are also shown to have to have rapid fire from macs to put their shields out and then to blow them up. Not saying they are going to win a toe to toe conflict with all Star wars ships, but they should hold out at least the lesser ones of the CIS and Republic which really are weak ( mostly CIS ) only a few weak versions of the Republic ships. On top of having capital battle ships, which is the one i've shown u where it took a selected target from 25+ surviving ships to target an exact area for all those mac cannons and stuff to actually kill it, which is i'd say pretty dang good. Also even though UNSC ships are really garbage, their armor is no joke went it has been improved over time to try and take less plasma damage burning through it with its TA armor. Which is suppose to be at least meter thick of armor just about everywhere. Now ik that's not impressive, but those are the frigates of course the smallest type of class within the UNSC. Others like the UNSC Trafalgar IIRC had about 10 meters thick of that armor. Covenant shielding and armor alike is suppose to be higher than that, and from what i recall the UNSC lost ships like that to the Covenant without a super duper problem. Covenant glassing weapons are also counter measures in naval engagements as well. Anyway I'm not saying they can stand pound per pound with all fleets, but they do have a high chance of standing pound per pound with all fleets ( with the expection of Thrawn's fleet ) i will admit they would prolly lose depending on the terms allowed on the field. Anyway the Covenant have their ways and uses as well, and UNSC isn't complete shit as well If the Covenant are given UNSC nova bombs thats going to wreck ships. ( at least from what i've heard ) they are suppose to be around 1.2 Petatons. We all know the covenant is around mid gigatons as well plus their heavy weapons are guided to their target basically the only way they miss is by the calcs of the AI that is helping the admiral make a super speed boost that barely misses them, otherwise they are basically impossible to dodge well depending on the controller ( i believe it was called the keyes loop when they ( unsc ) figured out how to dodge their stuff. Their ships ( when elites in control ) have dodged it as well with their superior tactics and knowledge on that because dodging something that travels at half 300,000kms is pretty fast at least for short range combat which was what they were doing, but they can fire from very far away as well because considering elites and brutes alike love to get in close their standard range is 4x the distance between the earth and the moon as well so XD, but the SW team has no knowledge of this and this was only found after the fact of having a few engagements. Granted SW can always find this, but then again you said it yourself First battle is most likely going to set the in motion the course of the war. Mac cannons are suppose to be around mid Megatons, and don't necessary effect the Covenant until someone ( i think it was keyes ) had devolved the 3 hit knock out on its smaller ships while the others were basically based on per luck and plot shield ( aka surprisingly Miranda keyes the b*tch. lol ). Anyway just my thoughts i wrote something different, but then my PC decided to turn off and not come back on so i had to do something and then fix it lol.

@aressword: Um? Why did you tag me for the Killzone side? Don't get me wwrong I like Killzone and I know a good bit about the franchise but I'm more of an expert on franchises like WH40K, Star Wars & Star Trek than Killzone.

@jwwprod: LOL xD

Once the both fleets appears, Obi-Wan gets the high-ground and destroys everyone.

@penderor: LOL! You need a cookie in fact two cookies LOL!

@killerwasp: UNSC/Covenant being able to do anything to CW-era ships comes down to what calcs we use for Star Wars. Movie or cartoon feats and... well... they aren't very impressive. ICS on the other hand has the Acclamator at 200 gigatons (Which is so... random. I swear the guy just threw the biggest numbers he could think of and said 'good enough') for its quads (so 50 gigaton per turbolaser). You would also have to consider that the CIS shields tank that, and they should be firing roughly equivalent weaponry back.

For this... I kinda have to assume higher end Star Wars as otherwise... the amount of firepower it would take to kill the Hulk would be mind numbing to figure out. (For those curious, standard Anti-Hulk is to get inside and plant bombs all over the place.)

Covenant firepower is everywhere calc-wise. I have seen it described as high megaton to teraton (which was really dumb) before. But that comes from the 'vaporizing an ocean' feat, but they obviously never use that amount of firepower on the UNSC... or ever before... and they don't have the energy generators that would give them the power and mass to do that. (Also ignoring the fact that... Master Chief... wouldn't have been able to see any of it given the sheer amount of vapor that would have been tossed into the sky.)

Covenant weaponry... isn't very consistent. If they could achieve gigatons, why in the world are 60 kt Mac guns a threat at all? I have also seen someone calc it at needing 2, 200 megaton shots a second in order to glass half of Africa, and so despite it making no sense, I can stomach low gigaton covenant, but I believe high megaton covenant makes more sense. (High end covenant, low gigaton, would still need to outnumber the CW fleets in the battle... going by what we see in the cartoon... they may be able to do so since, for some reason, many of their fleets are only 3-20 ships large.)

Yes, the Nova Bombs. I know of them and what they can do. Packed with nine levels of space magic and what not. I think my favorite thing about the Nova Bomb was how it... created... a pressure wave despite being in the middle of a vacuum. I read that, and I was like, "Where... did the pressure come from? All that non-existent air that the explosion displaced?" I consider the Nova Bomb to be a massive outlier doomsday weapon akin to the Death Star. Don't really see it, and as far as their forces go, it isn't really a factor. (Seriously, the guy who made that did not think it through.)

@killerwasp:

Obi-Wan: "You, were my brother James!"

T.Kirk: "Huh? I dont have any..." (gets killed)

Obi-Wan: "I loved you Ghazghull!"

Thraka: "Waagh" Wat das dat blonde human with beard and blue vibrator sayin?!" (gets killed)

Obi-Wan: "You were the chosen one Orlock!"

Orlock: " Oh..Really, well when you putted it that way (he starts to play with his hair), maybe..."(gets killed)

Obi-Wan:"And the rest of you were supposed to destroy the Sith! Yet I see that bald Vader, with enough insolence to not even wear helmet!"

Malgus: " I am not..."

Obi-Wan slashes with his lightsaber: "Indeed you are not anymore. And the rest of you! Its over! I. Have. The, High Ground!

Satele timidly raises the hand, after everyone except her is dead:" Can I go home please?".

And Obi-Wan whispers: Oh no, I feel disturbance in my lightsaber!"

Satele:"Oh,oh...well... still better than the OTHER High Ground."

End of the Episode VII: Kenobi and his lightsaber!

@penderor: lol @wut i forgot to tag u so the post is down below and im too lazy to redo all the little pics and videos and stuff. XD

UNSC/Covenant being able to do anything to CW-era ships comes down to what calcs we use for Star Wars. Movie or cartoon feats and... well... they aren't very impressive. ICS on the other hand has the Acclamator at 200 gigatons (Which is so... random. I swear the guy just threw the biggest numbers he could think of and said 'good enough') <-- Which means someone ought to get the real run down of it, as i said their prolly around the same, i mean people these days really what we need is someone to tell us what the exact amount of damage they can do. I mean i only say mid gigaton lvl but ik people have run calcs plenty of times and said they are in the ~2-3 TT/bolt. I just simply find that BS, however Havoc nukes ( u know the little pocket sized nukes ) are actually 30 megatons and or so. Now the calcs were run on when the Covenant small fleet of 36 ships ( all different sizes ) were gonna own a planet in 24 hours to even burn the atmosphere it'd say thats kinda impressive. In just 1 hour they had burned all its oceans and stuff anyway so everything was vaporized on the surface, but yeah lol. If you'd like though i can provide the quote.

for its quads (so 50 gigaton per turbolaser). You would also have to consider that the CIS shields tank that, and they should be firing roughly equivalent weaponry back.<-- True, but the biggest thing was shielding for the CIS, which in that case isn't too great, or at least enough to stand up to them per say. I find it hard to have 50 gigatons when they have trouble destroying smaller ships with their lesser weapons. I mean even the aoe alone from that laser should of wrecked the tiny ships before, but they do. Anyway with that said the shielding idk how effective it is, because sometimes we see this.

and this

^ look at the side of anakin its literally right the start so just quickly pause it.

and yet we have another moment where they are destroying this without much of a problem

and again even general g's ship has yet no shields? Which is kinda silly if that is the Capital ship of his and it's in the middle of no where not even engaged?

Now i understand this is from the movie, and honestly aren't considered necessary low showings ( dont even get me started on that BS star wars clone wars where tanks<ships ), but still their shielding is very vague and it kinda annoys me.

You would also have to consider that the CIS shields tank that, and they should be firing roughly equivalent weaponry back. <-- Yes, but the CIS also usually loses naval engagements as well most of the time they usually out number them a smaller amount ( not quite as bad as the covie vs unsc ), but its usually around 2 to 1. Also not all CIS ships fire that as well their main battleship isn't that good as well, and we all know the covenant will ram if they have to lol.

"For this... I kinda have to assume higher end Star Wars as otherwise... the amount of firepower it would take to kill the Hulk would be mind numbing to figure out. (For those curious, standard Anti-Hulk is to get inside and plant bombs all over the place.)" <-- XD yeah, and if they don't have the higher end orks are gonna slap stuff around lol. Orks always a pain XD

"Covenant firepower is everywhere calc-wise. I have seen it described as high megaton to teraton (which was really dumb) before. But that comes from the 'vaporizing an ocean' feat, but they obviously never use that amount of firepower on the UNSC... or ever before... and they don't have the energy generators that would give them the power and mass to do that. (Also ignoring the fact that... Master Chief... wouldn't have been able to see any of it given the sheer amount of vapor that would have been tossed into the sky.)" <-- Actually they have, its been said so plenty of times, heres some quotes from just reach alone.

"The Prophet of Regret watched the surface of Charybdis IX melt from the firepower of his ships with grim satisfaction and heavily lidded eyes. He shouldn't have chosen to smoke in his private quarters before coming out, but before attacks like this Regret always found a good smoke calmed his nerves. Energy rolled over the square buildings that the humans loved to cluster near one another on the ground. That made it all that much easier for the Covenant to destroy them.Regret grew bored of watching the destruction of the planet, and turned the screen off."

-Halo: The Cole Protocol

More fire powers. The deadly flashes of light impacted on the arabia, splashed across its hull. Its meter of armor plating instantly boiled away, and a plume of ignited atmosphere bursts from the breach in the sheep's hull.

-Halo Fall of Reach

^ the ship being hit by Pulse laser turrets

To support this another quote

Blue flashes strobed from the ship. Red motes of light then appeared along its hull. Bolts of energy coalesced into a fiery smear against the blackness of space. The deadly flash of light impacted the Arabia, splashed across its hull. Its meter of armor instantly boiled away, and a plume of ignited atmosphere burst from the breach in the ship's hull.

"Those were pulse lasers," Admiral Stanforth explain, "and - if this record is to be believed - some kind of guided, superheated plasma weapon."

-Halo: Fall of Reach

Pulse lasers are not even close to the plasma torps as well, so eh its hard to guess on just how powerful their weapons are.

Commander Keyes got to his feet. He had been wrong. There weren't four Covenant frigates. A pair of enemy frigates emerged from Slipspace . . . es-corting a destroyer and a carrier. His blood ran cold. He had seen battles in which a Covenant destroyer made Swiss cheese of UNSC ships.

-Halo Fall of Reach

Note the Covenant Destroyer comes in different sizes, but all can do this and their again not the biggest ship on the block.

Their weapons were light-years ahead of the UNSC's.

-Halo Fall of Reach

"The Pillar of Autumm shuddered as her Titanium-A armor took a direct hit. Just another item in the Covenant's bottomless arsenal, Captain Jacob Keyes thought. Not a plasma torpedo, or we'd already be free-floating molecules."

-Halo: The Flood

Pillar of Autumm when said that had excellent armor as well. Covenant have done other things as well and heres that quote u were talking about before as well with the planet, but note as i said up top it wasn't the first time they've done this.

"Three dozen Covenant ships - big ones, destroyers and cruisers - winked into view in the system. They were sleek, looking more like sharks than starcraft. Their lateral lines brightened with plasma - then discharged and rained fire down upon Jericho VII."

"The Chief watched for an hour and didn't move a muscle."

"The planet's lakes, rivers, and oceans vaporized. By tomorrow, the atmosphere would boil away, too. Fields are forests were glassy smooth and glowing red-hot in patches."

"Where there had once been a paradise, only hell remained."

-fall of Reach

Now ik the covenant lacks some of these, but honestly they have way more than what star wars has to offer in terms of doing this than said besides the death star lol.

"Covenant weaponry... isn't very consistent. If they could achieve gigatons, why in the world are 60 kt Mac guns a threat at all? I have also seen someone calc it at needing 2, 200 megaton shots a second in order to glass half of Africa, and so despite it making no sense, I can stomach low gigaton covenant, but I believe high megaton covenant makes more sense. (High end covenant, low gigaton, would still need to outnumber the CW fleets in the battle... going by what we see in the cartoon... they may be able to do so since, for some reason, many of their fleets are only 3-20 ships large.)"<-- because the smaller ships have trouble with it. Its like saying why does a smaller ork crusier have trouble with some of the IoM's weapons when others of theirs can tank it just fine? The as i've said before their battleships aren't necessary having trouble with those, and the kt mac are on ships keep in mind theres different ones as well. Also on reach there were the stationary mac cannons which did have trouble or gave trouble to the Covenant lets put it this way.

Most ships with macs fire a = 600-ton ferric-tungsten projectile at 30 kilometers per second which is decent but its just a slug honestly that moves super slow, if it had moved at the speed of the covenant's i'd assume it'd be way more powerful. Anyway

Stationary mac canons ( the ones that the covies have problems with ) = 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round at 12,000 kilometers per second big difference in both speed and the size of the slug. I doubt lesser sw ships would walk away not caring if they got hit by it. the covenant lesser ships are having trouble with these, so to say that it suffers from this kind of damage out put? It wouldn't call that necessary weak ( unless its 40k universe where this is their standard round. )

As i said these are two types of macs theres different kinds, i mean heck even the unsc tanks or heavy carriers is what i should say, carry the mac cannon as u see in halo 4

"Yes, the Nova Bombs. I know of them and what they can do. Packed with nine levels of space magic and what not. I think my favorite thing about the Nova Bomb was how it... created... a pressure wave despite being in the middle of a vacuum. I read that, and I was like, "Where... did the pressure come from? All that non-existent air that the explosion displaced?" I consider the Nova Bomb to be a massive outlier doomsday weapon akin to the Death Star. Don't really see it, and as far as their forces go, it isn't really a factor. (Seriously, the guy who made that did not think it through.)" <-- as i said the calcs i don't believe or am not sure about, nova bombs shockly were used more later during the war, but the problem was we have no idea how powerful they were, because when it went off it was literally inside the ship and stuff, so... XD yeah thats kinda hard to calc which is why i don't believe the calcs especially of that in halo wiki which we both know is off as it is, i prefer using lore and games to answer my questions rather than that sh*t site lol. Man how much i love this book sometimes its actual ship measurements and stuff

but halo reach does tell us how big the macs are as well, so two sources there. Anyway as i said just thoughts per say rather than a debate.

@wut: No using them then and add the Covenant in?

@jwwprod: You were the only person i've seen argue for killzone that is why. Any thoughts on this at all?

@killerwasp: Kinda an issue with those vids, but...ya know there is a battle going on. :P Which means constant barrages of attacks could be made, chipping down at the shields and hence why we're just seeing asplosions. That being said, the CIS ships aren't really designed for battle anyway and that instance in the 1st vid, they were using an SPHA which the main cannon is devastating.

@aressword: well I'm not going to give my full opinion just let.

But I will say that the Killzone factions are none factor in this fight.

@killerwasp:

Which means someone ought to get the real run down of it, as i said their prolly around the same, i mean people these days really what we need is someone to tell us what the exact amount of damage they can do. I mean i only say mid gigaton lvl but ik people have run calcs plenty of times and said they are in the ~2-3 TT/bolt. I just simply find that BS, however Havoc nukes ( u know the little pocket sized nukes ) are actually 30 megatons and or so. Now the calcs were run on when the Covenant small fleet of 36 ships ( all different sizes ) were gonna own a planet in 24 hours to even burn the atmosphere it'd say thats kinda impressive. In just 1 hour they had burned all its oceans and stuff anyway so everything was vaporized on the surface, but yeah lol. If you'd like though i can provide the quote.

I talked about the burning of the oceans in an hour. It stated by the MC who was watching it, but if they had vaporized all the oceans on the planet there is no feasible way he could know that as the amount of vapor that would be getting into the sky would make it impossible to see the surface...

(I know the little pocket sized nukes, a lot of people try and simply multiple that by the rate of increase they say the other bombs are greater then a 'nuke by' to get other numbers.)

True, but the biggest thing was shielding for the CIS, which in that case isn't too great, or at least enough to stand up to them per say. I find it hard to have 50 gigatons when they have trouble destroying smaller ships with their lesser weapons. I mean even the aoe alone from that laser should of wrecked the tiny ships before, but they do. Anyway with that said the shielding idk how effective it is, because sometimes we see this.

look at the side of anakin its literally right the start so just quickly pause it.

and yet we have another moment where they are destroying this without much of a problem

Yes, which is why I referred ICS as high end and the movies/cartoons as low end. If they were firing 200 gigatons per quad, and they have multiple of those, them fighting over coruscant would have caused massive explosions given how close they were, and they were in the outer layers of the atmosphere. They would have hurt each other by firing at that close which makes 200 gigatons seem ridiculous (But people like just being able to point to a number even if the number makes no sense.... like vaporizing oceans in a day yet UNSC ships have survived being shot by the same covenant ships...)

and again even general g's ship has yet no shields? Which is kinda silly if that is the Capital ship of his and it's in the middle of no where not even engaged?

Now i understand this is from the movie, and honestly aren't considered necessary low showings ( dont even get me started on that BS star wars clone wars where tanks<ships ), but still their shielding is very vague and it kinda annoys me.

Aye, cartoons are low end where those beam tanks (can't be bothered to remember the name) were taking down CIS frigates which is just... so dumb. Either the CIS frigates come with paper armor or those beam tanks have ludicrous power... or... more likely... someone just thought it would be super cool and didn't think it through.

(To be fair, the battle had been raging for some time.)

Yes, but the CIS also usually loses naval engagements as well most of the time they usually out number them a smaller amount ( not quite as bad as the covie vs unsc ), but its usually around 2 to 1. Also not all CIS ships fire that as well their main battleship isn't that good as well, and we all know the covenant will ram if they have to lol.

They do lose naval engagements but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be roughly comparable in ship strength.

It doesn't matter if they fire the same turbolaser or not, they should be roughly close, some differences taken into account for weapons and ship purpose, but in order to be able to hurt the Republic ships they would need to be, roughly, on the same playing field.

"The Prophet of Regret watched the surface of Charybdis IX melt from the firepower of his ships with grim satisfaction and heavily lidded eyes. He shouldn't have chosen to smoke in his private quarters before coming out, but before attacks like this Regret always found a good smoke calmed his nerves. Energy rolled over the square buildings that the humans loved to cluster near one another on the ground. That made it all that much easier for the Covenant to destroy them.Regret grew bored of watching the destruction of the planet, and turned the screen off."

-Halo: The Cole Protocol

Yes, but he was watching the destruction of a city. Not the vaporization (thus filling the air with thick water vapor) of an ocean. From Halo 3 cutscenes, we see that glassing doesn't throw that much dust into the air. (Destroying a City =/= Vaporizing an ocean. Vaporizing an ocean is a much, much higher feat.)

Note the Covenant Destroyer comes in different sizes, but all can do this and their again not the biggest ship on the block.

Their weapons were light-years ahead of the UNSC's.

-Halo Fall of Reach

"The Pillar of Autumm shuddered as her Titanium-A armor took a direct hit. Just another item in the Covenant's bottomless arsenal, Captain Jacob Keyes thought. Not a plasma torpedo, or we'd already be free-floating molecules."

-Halo: The Flood

Yes, but the UNSC, especially at the time, was not impressive. There was a large disparity in durability and weaponry strength.

because the smaller ships have trouble with it. Its like saying why does a smaller ork crusier have trouble with some of the IoM's weapons when others of theirs can tank it just fine? The as i've said before their battleships aren't necessary having trouble with those, and the kt mac are on ships keep in mind theres different ones as well. Also on reach there were the stationary mac cannons which did have trouble or gave trouble to the Covenant lets put it this way.

Uh, no. It is like wondering why an Ork Cruiser is having trouble when a guy is shooting a rocket launcher at its outerhull. The disparity between KT and GT is that big. A 60 kt weapon should not threaten a ship putting out GTs as it would be, logically assumed, that they would have shields that would run on the same power generators. (I have seen theories that the Covenant use a different generator to power their glassing of planets which is why they normally kill the enemy fleet before glassing because the weaponry used in glassing would not be viable in space for some reason.)

Yes, and those KT macs have punched through Covenant ships using Keye's 'three something method' first two take out the shield, and the third gut the ship. Essentially this is saying even an acclamator (ICS) should tear through any ship Malak/Revan's sith can throw at it.

Now ik the covenant lacks some of these, but honestly they have way more than what star wars has to offer in terms of doing this than said besides the death star lol.

What? Glassing? The Imperium can't glass a planet either. The point I am trying to make here is that the power output they do in glassing seems to be way, way, way, way stronger then what they use against the UNSC ships.

Most ships with macs fire a = 600-ton ferric-tungsten projectile at 30 kilometers per second which is decent but its just a slug honestly that moves super slow, if it had moved at the speed of the covenant's i'd assume it'd be way more powerful. Anyway

Stationary mac canons ( the ones that the covies have problems with ) = 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round at 12,000 kilometers per second big difference in both speed and the size of the slug. I doubt lesser sw ships would walk away not caring if they got hit by it. the covenant lesser ships are having trouble with these, so to say that it suffers from this kind of damage out put? It wouldn't call that necessary weak ( unless its 40k universe where this is their standard round. )

Covenant lesser ships go down to UNSC ship weapons using the 3 method... It isn't just Super Macs that pose a threat. Which... again... is the point. Normal UNSC ship based weaponry, which is not a Super Mac or close to its power, threaten and kill Covenant vessels. Not super carriers and the like, but the ones that are roughly the same size as UNSC ships do go down. If they were throwing out gigatons, their shields would be powered by this same generator, yes? If so, their shielding should be able to utterly laugh at 60 kts. 3 60 kt shots would not make a difference unless, which is where my problem lies, for some reason the glassing of planets is just... different somehow or space magic. (This is also what lead to the theory of separate power generators or methods.) Or Covenant shields are made out of butter compared to their weapons.

As i said these are two types of macs theres different kinds, i mean heck even the unsc tanks or heavy carriers is what i should say, carry the mac cannon as u see in halo 4

Yes, they come in different sizes and shapes, but this doesn't take away that the normal 60 kt ones have killed Covenant ships with three shots... this shouldn't be possible if their shields are powered by the same gigaton level generators. (And last I checked the Covenant only use fusion.)

as i said the calcs i don't believe or am not sure about, nova bombs shockly were used more later during the war, but the problem was we have no idea how powerful they were, because when it went off it was literally inside the ship and stuff, so... XD yeah thats kinda hard to calc which is why i don't believe the calcs especially of that in halo wiki which we both know is off as it is, i prefer using lore and games to answer my questions rather than that sh*t site lol. Man how much i love this book sometimes its actual ship measurements and stuff

Lol no, the reason I laughed was because the ship was between the moon and the planet when it blew up, it was not near an atmosphere. Yet... the pressure was able to hit the planet.... the... pressure from what? There is... nothing to give or transfer the pressure... Space magic.

These are my reasons for not liking the idea of GT covenant. It makes no sense as it would mean the UNSC should not have been able to do squat to them unless like... their shields are run off a different generator that is really, really, really weak or maybe their shields are just made of butter... or there is something in the glassing process, maybe they use a different generator or process or something to power those shots which, for some reason or another, are not viable in a space conflict. Pretty much, the numbers don't make sense.

@jwwprod: Fair enough, i havent changed any factions yet. I'd recommend waiting until so if yo wouldn't mind?

@wolfrazer: ikr? XD

@wut: "I talked about the burning of the oceans in an hour. It stated by the MC who was watching it, but if they had vaporized all the oceans on the planet there is no feasible way he could know that as the amount of vapor that would be getting into the sky would make it impossible to see the surface...

(I know the little pocket sized nukes, a lot of people try and simply multiple that by the rate of increase they say the other bombs are greater then a 'nuke by' to get other numbers.)" <--Yes but the covenant is way ahead in terms of fire power than the UNSC.

"Yes, which is why I referred ICS as high end and the movies/cartoons as low end. If they were firing 200 gigatons per quad, and they have multiple of those, them fighting over coruscant would have caused massive explosions given how close they were, and they were in the outer layers of the atmosphere. They would have hurt each other by firing at that close which makes 200 gigatons seem ridiculous (But people like just being able to point to a number even if the number makes no sense.... like vaporizing oceans in a day yet UNSC ships have survived being shot by the same covenant ships...)" <- Technically their ships have been one shotted by covies, as i said before even point lasers were doing damage to the UNSC ships, which as i said were no where near it. Its been stated by captain keyes and others that they have indeed one shotted ships and that they would be one shotted themselves if they ever f*cking landed a dang plasma torp on them lol. Sigh the Keyes shield almost as good as the MC shield. XD

"Aye, cartoons are low end where those beam tanks (can't be bothered to remember the name) were taking down CIS frigates which is just... so dumb. Either the CIS frigates come with paper armor or those beam tanks have ludicrous power... or... more likely... someone just thought it would be super cool and didn't think it through.

(To be fair, the battle had been raging for some time.)"<-- Yeah, but still it was so sad lol.

"They do lose naval engagements but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be roughly comparable in ship strength.

It doesn't matter if they fire the same turbolaser or not, they should be roughly close, some differences taken into account for weapons and ship purpose, but in order to be able to hurt the Republic ships they would need to be, roughly, on the same playing field." <--What im saying is that, just because you have a great offense doesn't necessary mean u have the best defense. I mean its kinda like tanks in a sense t-34's due to sloped armor had better defense technically speaking compared to their german counterparts which had larger guns that would normally kill any other tank, but there have been a lot of cases of it reflecting off and stuff. Not saying sloped armor = ships, but theres just different durability. Covenant armor is different than UNSC, starwars, or well anyone else's armor their all different in the end.

"Yes, but he was watching the destruction of a city. Not the vaporization (thus filling the air with thick water vapor) of an ocean. From Halo 3 cutscenes, we see that glassing doesn't throw that much dust into the air. (Destroying a City =/= Vaporizing an ocean. Vaporizing an ocean is a much, much higher feat.)" <-- that wasn't a city though? What ur thinking about is something else, what i posted were two things about planets getting wrecked. In the end there are different methods to which they do on taking a city or a planet. Which is why in halo 3 u dont see them glassing earth, just part of it to rid the UNSC if they were it'd be that same bs of "dont hurt the forerunner tech!!!" kinda deal. Which is why u even see it in halo the flood they were ordered NOT to fire on UNSC ships that were super far away but the ring was behind it, so they neve fired a shot and instead launched fighters and transports LOL. Sigh those stupid prophets lol. I can quote that if you'd like.

"Yes, but the UNSC, especially at the time, was not impressive. There was a large disparity in durability and weaponry strength." <-- Still better love story than mass effect LOL XD

"Uh, no. It is like wondering why an Ork Cruiser is having trouble when a guy is shooting a rocket launcher at its outerhull. The disparity between KT and GT is that big. A 60 kt weapon should not threaten a ship putting out GTs as it would be, logically assumed, that they would have shields that would run on the same power generators. (I have seen theories that the Covenant use a different generator to power their glassing of planets which is why they normally kill the enemy fleet before glassing because the weaponry used in glassing would not be viable in space for some reason.)" <-- Yes i understand that, but problem is that the Covenant has been mowing them down with their normal stuff. The 3 point tactic worked on this and similar ones.

Not all covies ships are the same, and they have different durability hint why Capital ships are not destroyed by Mac cannons or the 3 ko. The power generators are not the same the bigger the ship the more power generators there is, but most if not all covenant ships have shields. I never claimed a Covenant cruiser is gonna last a billion years to a Republic ship, but it will provide firing power for other ships. As for the one shots like u saw for glassing a planet they are used in combat and even in the games are shown to hit UNSC ships without a problem. The only thing is the covenant has to be above them to do so, which is for some reason odd because they never do that or so.

"Yes, and those KT macs have punched through Covenant ships using Keye's 'three something method' first two take out the shield, and the third gut the ship. Essentially this is saying even an acclamator (ICS) should tear through any ship Malak/Revan's sith can throw at it." <-- for minor not major ships, and this has to be done rapid or doesn't work we've seen the ships come back up on ships to where they walk away from it even still at times the Covies ship has been torn by a mac cannon and kept going ( it fled ) but it still kept going.

"What? Glassing? The Imperium can't glass a planet either. The point I am trying to make here is that the power output they do in glassing seems to be way, way, way, way stronger then what they use against the UNSC ships." <-- no displaying extreme fire power on planets or on other ships you can't really gauge it if u have unknowns on both ships which is why it is difficult for halo to get calcs.

"Covenant lesser ships go down to UNSC ship weapons using the 3 method... It isn't just Super Macs that pose a threat. Which... again... is the point. Normal UNSC ship based weaponry, which is not a Super Mac or close to its power, threaten and kill Covenant vessels. Not super carriers and the like, but the ones that are roughly the same size as UNSC ships do go down." <-- As i said lesser ships their smaller in size and can only tank so much, the heavier battle ships and not counting flag ships are not effected by it or at least shown anyway.

"If they were throwing out gigatons, their shields would be powered by this same generator, yes? If so, their shielding should be able to utterly laugh at 60 kts. 3 60 kt shots would not make a difference unless, which is where my problem lies, for some reason the glassing of planets is just... different somehow or space magic. (This is also what lead to the theory of separate power generators or methods.) Or Covenant shields are made out of butter compared to their weapons." <-- No same generators but more and those ships come up within a few moments as well technically speaking if we were to have them slip space jump every dang time those shields went down and appeared out they'd have to a wait a few mins then jump back in to finish a job, it never really happens, because well UNSC's ships are weak. They can also keep a battle going for quite some time and have the shields recharge, which is why its a known tactic to use it or the covies would just again stomp even more. Argh curse u keyes and ur tactics!

"Yes, they come in different sizes and shapes, but this doesn't take away that the normal 60 kt ones have killed Covenant ships with three shots... this shouldn't be possible if their shields are powered by the same gigaton level generators. (And last I checked the Covenant only use fusion.)" <-- yes it does, covenant lesser ships will be killed, their mid tier and higher ones will not, which is why the UNSC has to out number them quite a bit to win, or have keyes in the field or MC. lol

"Lol no, the reason I laughed was because the ship was between the moon and the planet when it blew up, it was not near an atmosphere. Yet... the pressure was able to hit the planet.... the... pressure from what? There is... nothing to give or transfer the pressure... Space magic." <-- eh i laughed because the bomb blew up inside a ship that was not being hurt by UNSc ships and thus due to a grunt turning on the bomb it blew up the ship LOL..... Grunts these days. XD

"These are my reasons for not liking the idea of GT covenant. It makes no sense as it would mean the UNSC should not have been able to do squat to them unless like... their shields are run off a different generator that is really, really, really weak or maybe their shields are just made of butter... or there is something in the glassing process, maybe they use a different generator or process or something to power those shots which, for some reason or another, are not viable in a space conflict. Pretty much, the numbers don't make sense." <-- how so? You see this all the time happening in sci-fi your most famous one? Star trek =

<-- gets pwned by the USS enterprise granted it didn't kill it, but why would that ship have a problem with it if it literally wiped the floors with others? One does not simply know lol.

@wut: @wolfrazer: @jwwprod: This thread has been changed, what are your opinions now?

Ancients at peak are demigods. Did I miss something in the rules?

@_gaff_: Really.. Is there a standard version for them?

Hmm. Maybe in parentheses put pre-Ascension

Yes but the covenant is way ahead in terms of fire power than the UNSC.

But the point is if there was such a huge disparity (Kt vs GT for standard weaponry) then one side would have been lucky to take out a single ship. The scale is that massive. This is akin to the Imperium fighting the Reapers.

Technically their ships have been one shotted by covies, as i said before even point lasers were doing damage to the UNSC ships, which as i said were no where near it. Its been stated by captain keyes and others that they have indeed one shotted ships and that they would be one shotted themselves if they ever f*cking landed a dang plasma torp on them lol. Sigh the Keyes shield almost as good as the MC shield. XD

They have been one shotted before, I never disputed that, but what I said was that other UNSC ships have survived getting hit by Covenant weaponry.

(Plasma trops never seem to hit. O.O)

Yeah, but still it was so sad lol.

I find most of G-canon to be sad. Like... the love scenes in the prequels.

What im saying is that, just because you have a great offense doesn't necessary mean u have the best defense. I mean its kinda like tanks in a sense t-34's due to sloped armor had better defense technically speaking compared to their german counterparts which had larger guns that would normally kill any other tank, but there have been a lot of cases of it reflecting off and stuff. Not saying sloped armor = ships, but theres just different durability. Covenant armor is different than UNSC, starwars, or well anyone else's armor their all different in the end.

You mean you are saying they are glass cannons? Powerful weaponry, but not the greatest in durability? Eh, I could live with that. I wouldn't be happy about it as I mean... that means the energy usage on their shields is an atrocity.

that wasn't a city though? What ur thinking about is something else, what i posted were two things about planets getting wrecked. In the end there are different methods to which they do on taking a city or a planet. Which is why in halo 3 u dont see them glassing earth, just part of it to rid the UNSC if they were it'd be that same bs of "dont hurt the forerunner tech!!!" kinda deal. Which is why u even see it in halo the flood they were ordered NOT to fire on UNSC ships that were super far away but the ring was behind it, so they neve fired a shot and instead launched fighters and transports LOL. Sigh those stupid prophets lol. I can quote that if you'd like.

He was watching a city get destroyed.

"The Prophet of Regret watched the surface of Charybdis IX melt from the firepower of his ships with grim satisfaction and heavily lidded eyes. He shouldn't have chosen to smoke in his private quarters before coming out, but before attacks like this Regret always found a good smoke calmed his nerves. Energy rolled over the square buildings that the humans loved to cluster near one another on the ground. That made it all that much easier for the Covenant to destroy them.Regret grew bored of watching the destruction of the planet, and turned the screen off."

-Halo: The Cole Protocol

Watching the 'destruction of the planet' was just something that was in process, but what Regret was personally watching was the destruction of a city.

Still better love story than mass effect LOL XD

Not if said love story is Tali. ^_-

Yes i understand that, but problem is that the Covenant has been mowing them down with their normal stuff. The 3 point tactic worked on this and similar ones.

Not all covies ships are the same, and they have different durability hint why Capital ships are not destroyed by Mac cannons or the 3 ko. The power generators are not the same the bigger the ship the more power generators there is, but most if not all covenant ships have shields. I never claimed a Covenant cruiser is gonna last a billion years to a Republic ship, but it will provide firing power for other ships. As for the one shots like u saw for glassing a planet they are used in combat and even in the games are shown to hit UNSC ships without a problem. The only thing is the covenant has to be above them to do so, which is for some reason odd because they never do that or so.

That isn't the point. The power difference between them is immense like... Reapers vs Imperium bad if they are putting out gigatons for their standard ships (KT vs GT) I would be utterly surprised and astounded if the reapers managed to take out even a Lunar Class. (Unless you mean gigatons are for the large ships like the Super Carrier? High Megatons for the standard ships and Gigatons for their capital ships?)

I never disputed that larger ship would have stronger weapons and shields, but the UNSC can kill ships of similar size despite the massive difference in fire power (Yes they need 3 to 1, but it is still something that shouldn't happen unless there is a massive, massive deficit between weaponry and shields thus the glass cannons I mentioned earlier.)

for minor not major ships, and this has to be done rapid or doesn't work we've seen the ships come back up on ships to where they walk away from it even still at times the Covies ship has been torn by a mac cannon and kept going ( it fled ) but it still kept going.

But 3 60 kt rounds should not be able to face a ship that has shields that run on the same generators that power gigaton level weaponry... it shouldn't have done anything at all. (Unless you, again, you meant gigatons for their super carriers and capital ships while the smaller ones are in megatons?)

no displaying extreme fire power on planets or on other ships you can't really gauge it if u have unknowns on both ships which is why it is difficult for halo to get calcs.

Ah, I see, yes, it is hard because the... firepower seems to change rapidly for Halo.

No same generators but more and those ships come up within a few moments as well technically speaking if we were to have them slip space jump every dang time those shields went down and appeared out they'd have to a wait a few mins then jump back in to finish a job, it never really happens, because well UNSC's ships are weak. They can also keep a battle going for quite some time and have the shields recharge, which is why its a known tactic to use it or the covies would just again stomp even more. Argh curse u keyes and ur tactics!

It could also not happen because jumping out would give their enemy shields time to recharge as well (Not that the UNSC has shields for most of their fleet).

yes it does, covenant lesser ships will be killed, their mid tier and higher ones will not, which is why the UNSC has to out number them quite a bit to win, or have keyes in the field or MC. lol

Throwing 60 kt shots at a gigaton level shield wouldn't do anything. Like.. at all which is why I have immense trouble accept those numbers. (Unless you mean gigaton for their huge ships and megaton for the normal ones.)

Wait, so to cut to the heart of this matter, your argument is smaller ships are megaton and the large capital ships are gigaton?

how so? You see this all the time happening in sci-fi your most famous one? Star trek =

<-- gets pwned by the USS enterprise granted it didn't kill it, but why would that ship have a problem with it if it literally wiped the floors with others? One does not simply know lol.

Star Trek, while famous, is so far from consistent it is scary.

@_gaff_: You could always just say Stargate: Atlantis. :P They were pretty... yea... in Atlantis.

Well, lets address some questions regarding the Ancients.

How would SW shields hold up against Drone weapons?

No morels means the Ancients are going to weaponize the Dakara superweapon

No morels ancients would also have no problem using a Time machine

Some things to think about.

@aressword: There's so much actual fighting going on here..but I think Star Wars has the higher tech here. Ancients from stargate?? Cause then I'm not totally sure. But I'd say most ground battles. That's an extreme amount of Jedi and Sith to deal with Espeicially working together, id say Star Wars takes the ground battles. Naval battles hmm. Anyways I'd say most of the naval battles Star Wars probably outnumbers the others not completely sure though an id say their firepower is extreme. I'll check on the ancients right now though.

I'd say this mostly plays out with it going Star Wars strength> ancients> reapers> covenant> an orks and dominion are tied> then star trek

I'm not that good....

UFP at its peak is the 29th century Federation, they control not only the entire galaxy but also most of time. One Wells-class timeship solos the other team.

Dang, that must be some ship. What can it do?

@_gaff_: Travel anywhere and anytime and exist outside of time. It can teleport explosives onto every enemy ship simultaneously without any chance of detection or interdiction as no Star Wars ship has defenses against temporal attack.

Sounds powerful. But the rules say no TP

@noah_ouellette: Wrong covenant is way above reapers... Anyway he said no tk or tp alike that limits the jdi and sith alike. Also Covenant in general hasn't been explained they can do what star wars ships have shown as well so tech not out of the question by any means... wait @wut did u just see what noah said? LOL Reaper>orks LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Oh boy lol

@killerwasp: Ork tech sucks. Only reason they can use it is cause of psychic abilities. I read up on this. So everyone's tech is better then ork. And halo tech is bad. It isn't near mass effect. The space travel Is around the same but the combat definitely isn't. They definitely can't do what Star Wars ships can. And it doesn't matter with or without tk they are still enhanced humans with ligtsabers.

@noah_ouellette: "And halo tech is bad. It isn't near mass effect. " <-- lol i wont even respond to that, considering their best weapon is less than the standard mac cannon round lol, but thats none of my business. Ork tech mite suck in warhammer but that does not mean they are useless. Technically Tau ships can't exchange fire with IoM technically their ships sucks, but i bet u they would wreck anyone short of the Imperial age ( thrawn in this case ).

How would a sw fleet handle swarms of drone weapons?

@wut: "But the point is if there was such a huge disparity (Kt vs GT for standard weaponry) then one side would have been lucky to take out a single ship. The scale is that massive. This is akin to the Imperium fighting the Reapers." <-- Yes, the point is not all Covie ships are launching GT. Idk here let me explain it this way. U said urself the older republic would stand no chance against the newer republic correct? So lets begin kinda similar terms. If we were to take a ILS vs SD whom would win? Technically by all means the SD by technical standards, however have someone right a book and make that ILS someone famous and i bet u 10 dollars that person will have the ILS win which normally would never happen. Same thing with the Covenant the Covenant so literally so many different ships serving the same purpose that its confusing in that sense which is why i'm thank you for ur patience. Now with that said the The mac cannons effect the lesser of those covenant ships, the lesser ones literally frigates and such are not able to withstand that amount of fire power. HOWEVER, this does not mean they can take it over time which is why tactics were needed to put a stop to this. ( such as the keyes 3 ko. ) kinda deal.

"They have been one shotted before, I never disputed that, but what I said was that other UNSC ships have survived getting hit by Covenant weaponry." <-- Yes, but not by torps UNLESS it involves keyes or someone famous. We've only seen the torps do damage to that of their own due to in fighting and flood infested ships. ( aka no plot to save them ).

(Plasma trops never seem to hit. O.O)"<-- Rarely, as i said their very accurate it is only due to the Keyes loop that UNSC barely gets hit anymore, but keep in mind the ships fighting such a simple 1 on 1 can last for hours ( not saying that is something special ), but its nothing to joke about either. Something we dont often see, for the star wars side. Its usually 1 on 1 someones bound to blow up real quick.

"I find most of G-canon to be sad. Like... the love scenes in the prequels." <-- like i've said before only good scene between the one on their own home world. XD for at least episode II

"You mean you are saying they are glass cannons? Powerful weaponry, but not the greatest in durability? Eh, I could live with that. I wouldn't be happy about it as I mean... that means the energy usage on their shields is an atrocity."<-- technically yes, technically no. Just like the scarab the only reason why their heavier ships died was silly things like the nova bomb some how being planted on there and then left unnoticed until a silly willy grunt ( or someone like that ) comes along and sets it off. While the others were either destroyed by massive fire power ( as i've said before the mid tiers aka ones whom mostly brush of macs and still have very great maneuvers along with dodging the super slow macs and other weapons like. ) or the lower ones ( the glass cannons ) that get destroyed by that of the MAC cannons.

"Watching the 'destruction of the planet' was just something that was in process, but what Regret was personally watching was the destruction of a city." <-- Yes, but the planet was soon to be glassed all of it was to be glassed, when the covenant glasses it doesn't stop unless im special cases and IIRC there was nothing special with that case. What we saw in africa was again their lesser ships that die to mac cannons, not even their mid tier let alone their heavier ones, so eh i see your point we will never know for sure which is why ill restate it, we need actual stats rather than feats to fall back on from both universes especially halo's.

"Not if said love story is Tali. ^_-" <-- sorry Cortana beats that love story and she aint even human lol. XD

"That isn't the point. The power difference between them is immense like... Reapers vs Imperium bad if they are putting out gigatons for their standard ships (KT vs GT) I would be utterly surprised and astounded if the reapers managed to take out even a Lunar Class. (Unless you mean gigatons are for the large ships like the Super Carrier? High Megatons for the standard ships and Gigatons for their capital ships?)" <-- the difference between UNSC battleships are not so different to that of the covenant corvettes and or frigates except for the fact that the UNSC battleships can be one shotted, while the Covies would not. As for your second part YES we are finally understanding XD

after all that typing ^^ i can finally use this video to express my happiness lol. Anyway yes mid tiers and up use torps, lowers do not they are not even armed with them, they are armed with the glassing cannon ( which technically isnt even on them but someone sneaked by the writers and stuff and so it was allowed ) and the purple lasers i was showing which are about that of the counter to macs and so on. ( note the pic if not the same for the lower class ones they have less but still never the less will be effective against the star wars lower fleets ).

"I never disputed that larger ship would have stronger weapons and shields, but the UNSC can kill ships of similar size despite the massive difference in fire power (Yes they need 3 to 1, but it is still something that shouldn't happen unless there is a massive, massive deficit between weaponry and shields thus the glass cannons I mentioned earlier.)" <-- its like an ork vs an imp ship. Would you say 3 ork ships could take on an imp ship of the same size. While that imp ship is dealing with ork ships that have around the same damage lvl output? Gigatons were never the question for these little ships im debating that they are useful against the lesser of the star wars fleet no matter the era ( BESIDES thawns they are simply too much even for little ones ). Anyway little ships like so ( shown down below )

and so on. That was my point ik that wasnt your point, but that was mine. That the covenant is a valuable ally and can help even on the smaller scale.

"But 3 64.5 ( every kilo counts XD) kt rounds should not be able to face a ship that has shields that run on the same generators that power gigaton level weaponry... it shouldn't have done anything at all. (Unless you, again, you meant gigatons for their super carriers and capital ships while the smaller ones are in megatons?)"<-- As i've been saying these have been applied to the lesser ships. Things like battleships don't suffer from this. I mean its possible but its a rare occasion kinda like Sgt forge beating the arbiter, or the death stare blowing up twice. XD Anything is possible lol its just the amount of PIS that is thrown into it.

"Ah, I see, yes, it is hard because the... firepower seems to change rapidly for Halo." <-- Not necessary change ( as i've stated their are ships armed with different mac cannons ), anyway not necessary change, but more and less doing stuff that should happen to one thing yet it doesnt while it does it to a thing that should of never happened. The hard beam u saw when Regret was watching it destroy a city is and was not a plasma torp. In a sense the view is like so ( example star wars )

vs Both different methods of doing stuff to a planet, both have different things going on. I'm not saying torp< laser just their different things with different stuff happening. Covenant as i said has a ton of different things that they can do, ranging from radar jam ( thus anything guided wont work ) to cloaked ships ( funny enough the radar jammers are also cloaked ) XD

"It could also not happen because jumping out would give their enemy shields time to recharge as well (Not that the UNSC has shields for most of their fleet)." <-- All but infinity don't have shields that ik of, just layers, meters of titanium-a armor which is suppose to spread the heat from covie weapons across rather than just simply melt. Either way it doesn't really help in the end it just melts away, but its an effort for them to try and upgrade it to newer armor which i believe Titanium-A3 armor plating, not really known on stats, but as i said the humans are trying to improve their ships alike, but what they really need is....

to upgrade their DANG LAND TROOPS! although we both know space is the better way to win a war, but still lol. XD

"Throwing 60 kt shots at a gigaton level shield wouldn't do anything. Like.. at all which is why I have immense trouble accept those numbers. (Unless you mean gigaton for their huge ships and megaton for the normal ones.)" <-- 64.5kt! XD No, the lesser ships are not gigaton lvl as i've stated a lot now. I guess this is a common theme amongst that covies ships all have the same shields which is not the case which is why their mid tier last longer and dont get pwned. I agree, but when it comes to halo more is well more lol. Even though thats not always the case because as proven with other ships they usually all target a certain spot which is why they somehow bust through, that and a solid matter hitting ur side imo is going to affect your ships one way or another. Thats like saying the imps main weapons being solid slugs not hurting a eldar shield which is correct, but if u had a bunch targeting one exact area then well it mite just do something ( ALONG ) with other weapons like nukes and stuff going off all at once. Anyway as i've said before up here ^ like all over the lesser ships are megaton their better ships are well honestly we don't know due to the lack of calcs.

Wait, so to cut to the heart of this matter, your argument is smaller ships are megaton and the large capital ships are gigaton?" <-- Yes

"Star Trek, while famous, is so far from consistent it is scary." <-- honestly with ur discussion i feel halo is suffering the same way. The only consist thing ik is that their lesser ships battle at least a few hours with the UNSC, with heavier ships involved the battle rages for days or possibly weeks ( with ofc UNSC taking a lot of damage ). It also doesn't help when u got an AI that is so smart it can read forerunner tech than even some of the covies scientist in a matter of moments ( not just cortana but all AIs ). Poor covies they never get good stuff just stuff that is said to be good, but lied to due to MC and his gang! XD.

@_gaff_: Well tbh that ship didnt look like it had shields, so tbh they'd prolly handle it just fine until their shields got down and then the ownage began. XD Although i'd add a different Sci-fi like Chitauri and their fleets, and before u bring up the garbage ones in the live action avengers im talking about these ones.