EoS Team 7 vs Avengers

@avatarreiko: I understand that but we don't know how physics work in naruto or if Kishi is even the whole concept behind wrapping time and space so we cannot just assume Guy is light speed based on that. And something Einstein said, "In his 1915 paper, Einstein showed that the effects of gravity could be described, by supposing that space-time was warped or distorted, by the matter and energy in it. We can actually observe this warping of space-time, produced by the mass of the Sun, in the slight bending of light or radio waves, passing close to the Sun" (http://www.hawking.org.uk/space-and-time-warps.html). And also http://science.howstuffworks.com/warp-speed2.htm

@utkanflash: What about Hulk? He is not a problem?

Anyway here's what I think...

1. Iron Man can indeed solo with sonics.

2. Kamui is not a NLF, it can be countered by characters with resistance to space warping/teleportation. Saying it is a NLF would be like saying poison poisoning someone with no poison resistance is a no limits fallacy, or fire burning someone with a no fire resistance is a NLF.

3. The way Kamui pull things in isn't through raw force, it seems to be space warping, since there's no way people who have Kamui used on them would survive the contortions if it wasn't space warping.

Case in point Minato is warped into thin strips but he escape and is unharmed. Kakashi's eye can also absorb clones, himself and the Eight-Tails (even expelling it, with the same contortion as Obito's eyes) and they're not reduced to shreds.

@deactivated-57c3cf21b495e: looks like hard core naruto fan left us

@avatarreiko: No dude, that's not what I am saying. Guy is very fast in 8 gates, faster than both naruto and sasuke (you can't really deny that) but saying he is light speed because he was distorting space is wrong. He could have been distorting space due to the increased gravitational pull around him, which could have been caused by his speed and mass or his ability. We can't say for certain because kishi never explained it.

Yes, but you can't start comparing how humans relate to gravity and how naruto characters do. Hell, naruto can fly. But saying that you need to be light speed to wrap time/speed could be right in the real world but in naruto, it could be totally different. I believe Guy was distorting space due to his special ability - NIGHT GUY and not really because of speed.

@noone1996

As for the whole "Kakashi intangibility" this should help you. Brave on warrior......*disappears*

Sigh. Someone is not paying attention. Agan, Kakashi does not have your standard intangibility. He is not manipulating his molcules, vibrating or anything like that. Technically, it's not even phasing. When he phases, his body slips into to the Kamui dimension and the ONLY way to affect him is by attacking his materialised body in that dimension. . What part of that is so hard to grasp? Iron Man won't be able to do that since Kakashi is not in the same dimension as him. The lightning will just pass through him

@avatarreiko: It's intangibility. Stop trying to make it out to be something its not.

What happened?

@avatarreiko: And trying to argue that physics works the same in naruto than in the real world is also "reaching dude". Prove to me that the laws of physics in naruto are the same as in the real world. Hell, naruto CAN FLY, that alone should prove you wrong and other things like ninjutsu, chakra, and stuff. Stop trying to compare the physics of two worlds. And it is a special ability that only someone in the 8 gates transformation can use, it seems you forget that before guy used his final move, night guy, he was also moving very fast and was not distorting space or anything and then he used his special move - Night GUY and only then was he distorting space, yes you could say he increased his speed but it could also be an effect of his move which could affect gravity around him or increasing the air pressure around his just like his move in 7 gates, the pressure around his is so great that he is distorting space, it could have been anything but to say that he was gong light speed is wrong.

That is all I am saying. We cannot say for sure that he was moving at light speed because what distort space and time is gravity and mass of massive objects and not light.

@avatarreiko: That is not what I am saying. You claim that physics in the naruto world work the same as ours and I am saying that don't. And we are in the same boat here, prove to me that physics in naruto work the same as in the real world because it is you who is claiming that they do, and since we both don't have any proof, let's leave it at that. And stop trying to bring in other comics into this debate. I never said that guy's feat doesn't count, all I am saying is that he WAS NOT MOVING AT LIGHTSPEED" as you claimed before. He was moving very fast and due to his special move, he was distorting space, it doesn't mean that he was light speed, that is all I am saying and as I said before, both naruto and Sasuke are not light speed, that is my debate here.

I already said that Kakashi bfr's all of them but to make Guy seem that he is light speed is wrong. And I don't even know why we are mentioning guy, anyone who is amazing durability (against blunt force trauma) can survive that move from Guy.

@avatarreiko: I've read Naruto and you've already stated it's intangibility. Trying to turn it into something else is your problem.

Here's another gif to show how Kakashi's dismemberment is space warping. We can see that as he tries to absorb the Gedo Mazou's head that despite being warped it snaps back to it's original position as soon as Obito counters it. If it was just raw force absorbing the Gedo's head, then it would still be all swirly after Kamui ends. Space itself is snapping back to it's original position.

I also included how Kakashi could expel the Eight-Tails, which means it visibly expands as it emerges. More evidence of space being warped, as the Hachibi is unharmed from being pushed through such a small space.

until we meet again

Naruto starts in Ashura Mode with *TSB*, how do avengers win this fight?

He can sense intentions too, so nothing is catching him off guard, and that includes Iron Man's sonics.

Team 7 rapes horribly

The blatant comic wank in this thread is unreal."Kamui is NLF"Really?This is an all time low even for comic tards.

The blatant comic wank in this thread is unreal."Kamui is NLF"Really?This is an all time low even for comic tards.

My god TWO mods came in and this isn't locked? I guess they enjoy the hilarity of some of these arguments presented themselves.

Why should it be locked?

Another instance of you putting words into my mouth, where was this stated? Not only that you didn't even have the balls to tag me but still continued to reply to my argument, I think I've gotten under your skin pretty badly since you can't shut me up like the others with your nonsensical logic of everything you can't counter being an NLF.

My dude, your insults and comments are completely insignificant to me. The fact that you think I care about what you think astounds me.

By saying that the Raikage could tank the rasenshuriken, but that Thor couldn't, how is that not implying that the Raikage is more durable than Thor? You literally stated that everyone here could get casually one-shotted by the Rasenshuriken. The same one that couldn't even fully kill Kakuzu. And then you have to audacity to claim that MY claims are nonsensical? Give me a break.

Yes, the entire pillar of my argument revolves around blindly screaming "NLF!" Sure, bud. If that's what you got from my long and thought out response with a plethora of evidence, then I guess we know how much you like to skim through my comments.

As I clearly stated above the chakra construct shielded him from this effect, I'll explain everything slowly so im positive I won't lose you here. y'know that thing that emits from every cell of the users body? Im guessing even you know what chakra is at this point? Sasuke does this quite often himself: Now lets look at what Lightning chakra does: Clearly the vibrations of lightning chakra work on every cell of the body if willed to, not only that take note that Kisame directly compares it to wind chakra that's already been confirmed to be cellular cutting. Lmfao this correlates perfectly actually, you remember when Sasuke barely scratched the raikage despite having a blade that's finer than cellular splitting:

Wow. You're really reaching on this one now aren't you? Lmfao. Literally all Kisame says is that the lightning increased the penetration power. There is absolutely NOTHING to suggest ANYTHING at all whatsoever about molecular or cellular attacks. Not one thing. In fact, when he throws the pencil at Kisame, it stops after hitting the freaking ground.... If that was a cellular attack that could molecularly break down all matter or atoms it comes into contact with, then explain to me how on Earth would it stop after going through one tree and then hitting the floor? Wouldn't it keep going and make, at the very least, an extremely deep hole?? Or were the atoms on the ground tougher than usual? Maybe the snow caused a dampening effect to the molecular attack through some elemental rock, paper, scissors crap logic? This is a joke.

When Sasuke failed to pierce the Raikage it was literally because his chidori wasn't strong enough to bypass his lightning cloak's durability. That's it. It's not some overly complex logic about how his chidori was splitting atoms (never stated anywhere) and then his lightning armor could counter atom splitting lightning. You are desperately speculating hard as hell right now. They are saying things like "increased penetration" and you are reaching that to making it out to be a molecular attack. It's not and there is nothing clear-cut in canon that you can provide that can prove that short of baseless assumptions and speculation.

Debunked.

I find it hilarious that you think you debunked anything. You act like you just provided a golden scan that explicitly proved what you are saying, but you are just misinterpreting words. That's it.

No arguments here, it's just irrefutable fact that the armor allows him to resist cellular cutting attacks to some degree:

Wow, well then in that case I guess Kakuzu's eyes, hair, nose, chin, and the rest of his body has cellular resistance too? I mean he looks like he's in pretty good shape after being blasted by an attack that worked on a cellular level:

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Now, I'm not really seeing how an attack like that, which failed to kill Kakuzu, is going to one-shot Hulk and Thor who have durability WAY above his. Not getting it. But I guess that must be because I'm so simple-minded like you keep saying. Whatever you say, dude.

That's the stupidest misinterpretation you've thrown out here so far that consists of nothing but bullshit. They clearly tried to separate him from the armor not take a different part of it all together.

Lmao this coming from the guy that's trying to claim that basic lightning attacks in Naruto, like chidori, are molecule busters with nothing to back it up except speculation.

You damn well know tony's armor has been taken apart more than once.

It hasn't been taken apart via teleportation though...? Did you forget what we were talking about? If the Coterie could teleport pieces off of his armor, which would have been ideal for them since they were just trying to get an opening in his armor to let in a biological nanites that would control his mind, then they would have. They even resorted to upgrading the nanites because nothing else was working. They ended up teleporting him at least 3-5 times throughout that story and they never gave up on trying to let the nanites in, so if they could have teleported him, say, without a piece of his armor on (which would result in the nanites getting in to take control of him like they wanted since it'd be an opening), then it would have happened. Too bad it didn't. Nice try though.

Well kakashi can't see through a solid black orb now can he? But he can easily see through those energy projected shields tony has.

You've never shown him using kamui through something like you are claiming so this point is moot.

Except all the times he attempted to he was either stopped by obito or unable to at the time (plot), heres your pity cop out of screaming "NLF!" when you quite possibly don't even know the meaning of it. It operates pretty straightforwardly you either lack the intelligence or maturity to accept this, it's mechanics have been explained numerous times in this thread.

LMFAO he was unable to at the time. Right. Wow good excuse, dude. I didn't know I was debating with a master of logic here. He had dozens of chances to easily end Madara or Kaguya with a kamui snipe. Stop kidding yourself.

Again throwing around a term you don't know in an attempt to describe something that you refuse to understand for whatever reason. At least attempt to exercise some logical disparity here, just because an ability is "overpowered" doesn't make it an NLF. Just more proof of the level of bias im dealing with here.

Again, your insults mean absolutely nothing to me. We get it, you're edgy. You're attempting to make me look bad over the internet. You're really cool and anybody that isn't a weaboo or disagrees with you is an idiot. Message received.

When he kamui snipes it's different than when he uses it to harmlessly teleport. You can't deny that.

Reed is utterly wrapped around his entire body constricting him, it's hindering his movements.

There is literally no evidence that his movements are being hindered. At all. This is a herald of freaking Galactus and you think that Reed was restraining him so effectively that his atom busting axe no longer busted atoms when it hit Iron Man. Reach some more, dude.

When the axe starts to glow and there are, what looks like energy bubbles emitting from the axe, that means it's going into atom cleaving mode. So the restraint part is irrelevant since the atom-busting axe still couldn't get through the armor. In fact, his armor is still 100% functional afterwards.

Nah I was just smart enough to not take your word for it I guess the rest of the illuminati getting hit also means they can tank atom splitting t'challa included? Debunked.

Lmfao wtf? The AXE is what cuts atoms, genius. His simple punches don't cause atom busting attacks. Did you read the scan I posted of Terrax saying his axe cleaves atoms? My guess is no. You skimmed through most of what I said. That explains why 90% of what you typed out is just you being unoriginal with "insults" and calling me dumb. If I was still in middle school that might have hurt.

Might as well, been a walk in the park so far.

Must be nice to be so delusional lmao.

Clearly bypasses his shield and he gets thrown to the ground by getting tagged in the arm.

His shields blocked the blast just fine, but the part of his armor that he didn't shield from got damaged. If he had a full-form bubble shield that surrounded him and it protected him on all angles, it wouldn't have done anything. So yes, his shields did block the attack. He just didn't take into consideration the blast bouncing off of his shields and ricocheting onto himself. He wanted to conserve energy there, so that's why he didn't use a full shield. "Debunked".

Stop using words you don't know the meaning of, tony hasn't absorbed something similar except thors magic basically and that was because of Uru enhancements. Chakra isn't 'just energy' its a spiritual and physical manifestation, Chi is explained as a bioelectric energy that surrounds all things.

So where are you going with this? Only Narutoverse characters can manipulate or absorb chakra? How convenient!

Also, you don't know wtf you are talking about when it comes to Iron Man absorbing Thor's lightning. He's done it at least 3-4 times without any "Uru enhancements". Whatever the hell that even means. He's not having any issues absorbing chakra. It has been shown that it can be absorbed and Tony has shown the ability to do so. Making baseless assumptions about how chakra is too "unique" to be absorbed (with literally nothing to back it up) just truly shows your desperation. If this is such a mismatch then why nitpick this nigh insignificant point so hard?

Kishimoto =/= Ewing, it's OBVIOUSLY different based on definition alone. Debunked.

Oh, Kishimoto explicitly stated that NOBODY in the entire MULTIVERSE except Rinnegan users could absorb chakra??? Wow! Consider me convinced!

I know for an absolute fact he's not absorbing Amaterasu, that's pure chakra bud.

Wow, pure chakra??!?! Holy crap, you are so right! Rinnegan users are the only ones in the entire multiverse that can absorb chakra. Even Galactus would be unable to absorb chakra since he doesn't have the Rinnegan. I wish I didn't have to deal with such an expert here. Next you'll be claiming that even a simple katon from part 1 Sasuke couldn't be absorbed by Iron Man lmfao.

You have yet to show chakra being above or unique to anything that he's casually absorbed in the past. Amaterasu is literally just black fire. Tony has shown the capability to absorb fire and convert it into energy.

Lmfao here he goes leaving out context.

Okay? What kind of response is this? If a character is mind-controlled then they aren't holding back. "Herp derp Debunked. I'm edgy."

You are a rather pathetic debater if this is all you can come back to everytime. "DUDE I GUESS IT WOULD WORK ON ODIN TOO!" The mind is a terrible thing to waste at least attempt to use some form of common sense and correlation.

It's so funny how you can get away with literally ignoring my claims about no-limit fallacies. You think by making fun of me and saying, "lel all u say is NLF u must be bad debator lol" that it somehow disproves my claim about how it's a NLF lmao. You are extrapolating these attacks to infinity and justifying it by saying "herp it es hax u styoopid". It would take a pathetic debater to know one, wouldn't it?

Odins an all powerful magical being who can drain life forces, I doubt he'd have a problem taking chakra.

But wait, Odin has never shown the ability to drain spiritual and super unique energy like chakra before... Chakra isn't JUST energy, right? It's super hax and nothing can absorb it except Rinnegan users. Odin doesn't have the Rinnegan so "herp derp debunked herr derr".

How does this correlate to tony absorbing chakra? Debunked.

Tony has absorbed the same magical energy that taps into Mjolnir's enchantments from Odin, yet Tony can't absorb chakra and Odin can. Lmfao what? The correlation is that your logic is terrible. You are saying that NOTHING can absorb chakra. Only characters with hax abilities like Odin because he has magic or something. Thor has shown the ability to absorb energy with Mjolnir too, but is he capable of absorbing chakra? The answer would probably be yes to you, even though Iron Man's energy absorption feats dwarf Thor's.

Thor doesn't even have Mjolnir, even if he did he CAN'T get to kamui dimension. The writer has made it evidently clear in nearly every showing and databook entry the ability has.

How convenient for you to argue that it's unworthy Thor lmao. Technically "current Thor" is Jane Foster, so Mjolnir is in this thread whether you like it or not. I showed a scan of Thor telling Mjolnir to open up a portal that would take him to wherever Loki was. He had no idea where he was going, but it still took him there. Not seeing why that wouldn't happen if Hulk or Tony got BFR'd there. Oh right, because every ability in Naruto is a NLF. Everything is super hax and no other characters can deal with any of their attacks except omnipotent characters or other Narutoverse characters. I forgot. This is weaboo 101 basic stuff.

Ironmans head gets BFR'd, you have no counter to it he dies instantly upon it being removed and he then does the same to Thor. This of course meaning he doesn't get blitzed off the bat,

Even though I've already proven that he can't be teleported without his armor... But yeah... Just ignore that.

Also vision's intangibility is not the same as kakashi's, debunked.

Kakashi can still hear while he's phased, debunked.

Holy shit, you can't even read properly. I stated he was ALSO BLINDED, which he CLEARLY WAS. I don't know if I can handle another wave of the fleck of stupidity you just shown here. You damn near ignored a simple sentence.

So what the hell was the relevance of mentioning that then? Your retort to "the sound based attack hurt them" was "well they were blinded, so ha!" Okay? How does that prove me wrong or help your case? But yeah, keep typing all frustrated about how dumb I'm being for not being able to read your irrelevant points even though they go nowhere.

Proof it won't? You're letting your bias show a bit too much here, I know the feats of both Avengers and team 7 alike Iron man is just as useless as cap in the eyes of any of those 3.

Ummm... Maybe because characters much stronger than Sasuke have failed to do so? More recently, Hyperion comes to mind. Oh wait, I forgot, he's not an anime character so he's automatically below Sasuke. Sorry, my bad.

You have absolutely no room to talk about bias. You probably think that DMS Kakashi could even beat Thanos.

What speed feats does Ironman have reacting to instantaneous teleportation that isn't a scientific phenomenon?

First of all, his armor can scan and detect space/time fluctuations before they even happen. Second of all, he's got microsecond reaction speeds and can move at massively hypersonic speeds. He essentially has precog with his scanners and more than enough speed to avoid.

LMFAO @ you suggesting Hagaromo is omnipotent, that's a well deserved laugh.

Pretty sure I was talking about the Beyonder or the Living Tribunal... Kakashi casually beats them too. No-brainer, right?

Based off your one single garbage interpretation? "beaming me and the armor seperately" clearly wanted him out of the armor, nowhere does it imply it can't be taken apart when even Mandarin has done it.

The feat isn't garbage just because you don't like it lmfao. They didn't want the armor on him. If the teleportation could beam the armor in pieces or separately, it would have happened, but keep ignoring that logic. Mandarin has never teleported Stark out of the armor or pieces of it like you are claiming Kakashi would. That is horrid ABC logic.

Your knowledge on stark and Naruto seems to be clearly lacking.

You're right, please tell me more about how a simple rasenshuriken, which couldn't even kill Kakuzu, could kill Thor and Hulk. Please teach me your genius ways.

Also, tell me more about how Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, and Sentry have failed to one-shot Stark with pure physical force, but that Sasuke or Naruto could do it casually. You are the expert after all.

Cept it's not by very definition of the writers themselves, debunked.

You have admitted that Odin could absorb the chakra too which means that, if the absorption abilities are good/high enough, it can be done. I'm not saying Tony's armor absorption abilities are on par with Odin, but they are MORE than good enough to absorb chakra. Especially when they have absorbed energy much more potent and complex than chakra. He's absorbed magical Asgardian energy, power cosmic energy, Sentry's power, ionic energy, nova flame, etc. This part of the debate really shows your desperation and fear by nitpicking so hard on this one point. You'd think you'd put more emphasis and effort into the sonic part of your defense lmao. I guess you'd want to ignore that at all costs, huh? Kind of surprising because I'd think someone as biased as you would absolutely hate the idea of Iron Man casually one-shotting the entire team with sonics which is entirely possible since none of them have shown the capability to resist it lmao.

With the highly inconsistent repulsors? Sakura's tanked Atomic disintegration herself.

He has different settings for his repulsors. At times, they are set to 100% potency which could bust mountains (they are rarely on this setting), and at other times they are set to a much lower potency which would just cause internal damage or broken bones to a human. Idc what Sakura's tanked. She's nowhere even remotely close to being as durable as the beings that Tony's one-shotted. The fact that you believe Tony is incapable of casually taking her out shows your frustration and bias against Iron Man. He's so crappy in your eyes that he can't even take out a joke character. Let's just ignore those times that he's one-shotted Ulik, a Thor villain.

How does he even get off sonics? Kakashi can use Kamui to teleport ANYWHERE, and Raikiri is much more penetrative than Chidori added with the phasing effect of Kamui and the fact he can remain intangible while doing such? Stark gets blitzed and taken out before he even becomes an annoyance.

Because he's massively hypersonic and he can fly? Much faster than anyone here.

Tony is a oneshottable lightweight here, sorry if it hurts your feelings bud the hax they present he has no counter for.

One-shottable lightweight? LMFAO. Tell that to Hyperion:

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He failed to one-shot Iron Man, but Naruto and Sasuke would casually do it, huh? Lmao.

But yeah, Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and Sakura are totally above him. I forgot, they are anime characters so that's just a rule of thumb by default.

You haven't debunked a single thing.

not one instance of Hulk resisting anything like Kamui,

Here we go... Hulk crashed through glass that should have teleported him to the negative zone. But Kamui is on another level than that type of teleportation, right? Because it's from anime? Once again, OUTSTANDING logic.

even juice admitted to it being molecular manipulation. Not to mention Thor has no way of getting to Kamui Dimension and even if he did, what good is retrieving a severed head?

His armor can't get teleported separately. Don't know how many times I have to explain such a simple concept to you. If he tries the Kamui snipe on his head it'll either fail or it'll send his entire body and armor there together. That's assuming that Tony even stands still and lets it happen even though his sensors will be warning him about it before it even happens. He'll get warnings about space-time fluctuations on his armor and Kakashi has never kamui sniped anyone as fast and maneuverable as Tony.

So kakashi still solos and you have no real counter just scream 'NLF!' until someone comes and piggybacks on your rather poop argument.

You are saying that Kamui works on universal level beings and that it has no limits, but yeah you are the rational one here. Whatever you say. The funny thing about you criticizing me is that 80% of what you typed out is literally just ad hominem about me being stupid or my argument sucking because I disagree with you. It's ironically hilarious how my argument is 'poop' even though most of what you say is just one personal attack after the other. But hey, I won't judge. Whatever helps you sleep better on your body pillow waifu at night, man.

Isn't Saukra as strong as Thor?