Does Grey Hulk have any TP resistance feats? I know Savage Hulk does.
He has a few, not sure how well they stack up to Emma's TP, but i am sure the X-men fans here can tell us as they are perfectly aware of how resistant Gray Hulk is to TP to make claims about him being "stomped" and "godstomped" and aren't just wanking X-men characters as what seems to be the trend in any X-men related in recent times.
what are grey hulk's mental resistance feats? if he has any...
He has resisted mental attacks from Mercy, Leader, a sorcerer supreme from an alien dimension, some mind control devices and Selene, not sure how well this stacks up to Emma, but Selene and Mercy are pretty decent telepaths.
Does Grey Hulk have any TP resistance feats? I know Savage Hulk does.
He has a few, not sure how well they stack up to Emma's TP, but i am sure the X-men fans here can tell us as they are perfectly aware of how resistant Gray Hulk is to TP to make claims about him being "stomped" and "godstomped" and aren't just wanking X-men characters as what seems to be the trend in any X-men related in recent times.
@huko: It's not just Hulk vs X-men threads, it's X-men threads in general, it's turned into a creepy cult following.
I mean hey If you wanted to, you could've tagged us and asked for feats...We X-Cultist are busy and don't always circle back to these threads.
Breaks into the mind of a Fury and rewrites it
Breaks through a psychic block on the planet powered by 7 linked planetary Skrull telepaths.
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Breaks free of Phoenix Force amped Jean's control, Overpowers Phoenix Force amped Mindee Cuckoo (her clone/daughter), Puts a collar around the Phoenix Force and restrains it.
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Takes control of 1,000 psychic clones of her and uses them to depower a Phoenix host
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Breaks through Xaviers defenses (repeatedly), Storm's defenses, Wolverines defenses, Quentin Quires defenses, Rachel Grey's defenses, Magneto's defenses, Mr. Sinisters defenses, Apocalypse's brainwashing, Miss Sinister' brainwashing, Overwhelmed Jean Grey with just the backlash of her breaking through someones defenses, blew up an entire building with a psi bolt during a fight with Phoenix and broke into Sentry's mind and made changes to him and The Void.
@koays: Well now that i have your attention let's go through it.
Grey Hulk resists mental attacks from Mercy
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While poisoned and weakened resists the mental attacks from Leader
Overcomes a Sorcerer Supreme in a mental battle
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Resists a mind controlling device
Resists mental suggestions from Selene
Now most of the feats you mentioned is breaking through someones defenses which doesn't really do much for this fight here, others are not really quantifiable, some are out of context like the fact that she only got inside Sentry's head because he allowed her to and some are outright outliers unless you are trying to say Emma can TP Phoenix Jean reliable when even regular Jean has shown to be her superior in that department.
Well Savage Hulk has broken diamond before, Grey Hulk hasn't but i am unsure about her stomping, let alone godstomping this, it seems like if she wins it would be a hard fought battle.
@underfire47: Resisting Mercy, Selene and Leader mean nothing here because none of them are on Emma's level even remotely.
Jean has been stated to be Emma's superior but the only clash they've actually had where Jean didn't have the Phoenix was when Emma's attack on someone else was overwhelming Jean.
Emma has actually fought Classic Green Phoenix, resisted New X-Men Phoenix tapping Jean, shielded from the crazed Phoenix from Warsong, restrained and defeated the Phoenix tapping Cuckoos, blocked out the Phoenix's connection to it's host and placed a psychic collar around the neck of the Phoenix to help restrain it....she has more feats against the Phoenix Force then any other character....so yes even if she can't beat it, she has shown she can reliably defend against and effect it and it's host.
The resistances of Magneto, Wolverine, Storm and Xavier are all willpower, anger and trauma based.
Emma talked Sentry down the first time. The second time she got into his head she seperated him from the void and then restrained it long enough for him to retake control.
Grey Hulk hasn't faced anyone on her level of power telepathically and she's arguably one of the most skilled psychics at taking over and infecting minds......he doesn't have the feats to do much of anything here to slow her down.
As far as breaking her, Emma isn't diamond, she's organic diamond. She's a whole different of bullshit, if she can take hits from Juggernaut, WWH, Blackbolt's shout at close range and multiple shots from a Celestial...she can take whatever this Hulk tries to do.
You need a stronger hulk, with better anti-tp feats
Does Grey Hulk have any TP resistance feats? I know Savage Hulk does.
He has a few, not sure how well they stack up to Emma's TP, but i am sure the X-men fans here can tell us as they are perfectly aware of how resistant Gray Hulk is to TP to make claims about him being "stomped" and "godstomped" and aren't just wanking X-men characters as what seems to be the trend in any X-men related in recent times.
@huko: It's not just Hulk vs X-men threads, it's X-men threads in general, it's turned into a creepy cult following.
I mean hey If you wanted to, you could've tagged us and asked for feats...We X-Cultist are busy and don't always circle back to these threads.
Breaks into the mind of a Fury and rewrites it
Breaks through a psychic block on the planet powered by 7 linked planetary Skrull telepaths.
Gallery
Breaks free of Phoenix Force amped Jean's control, Overpowers Phoenix Force amped Mindee Cuckoo (her clone/daughter), Puts a collar around the Phoenix Force and restrains it.
Gallery
Takes control of 1,000 psychic clones of her and uses them to depower a Phoenix host
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Breaks through Xaviers defenses (repeatedly), Storm's defenses, Wolverines defenses, Quentin Quires defenses, Rachel Grey's defenses, Magneto's defenses, Mr. Sinisters defenses, Apocalypse's brainwashing, Miss Sinister' brainwashing, Overwhelmed Jean Grey with just the backlash of her breaking through someones defenses, blew up an entire building with a psi bolt during a fight with Phoenix and broke into Sentry's mind and made changes to him and The Void.
Grey Hulk can't break her and even if she wasnt too powerful for him she has all day and night to work on it....
This is why I call Emma the most powerful telepath after Phoenix Force-possessed Jean Grey, Classic Xavier, and Classic Shadow King. I place her even above Cassandra Nova.
Now, regarding Storm, Emma's TP is no match for Ororo's defenses if they are on high alert. Moving on from that, unconscious comatose Emma was able to even block Xavier. https://i.imgur.com/9ntvLhf.jpg
Emma has also repeatedly beaten Wolverine's mental defenses even when non-Phoenix Force Jean Grey failed against those same defenses (see next few scans):
Emma beats the X-Men's (including Wolverine's) mental defenses when they leveraged techniques taught to them by Xavier and Phoenix Force Jean Grey:
On topic and excusing Wolverine instances of mind control as if Logan isn’t brainwashed or controlled every other week, Emma has a knack for being able to get around psychic defenses and stronger opponents, even outside of straight of power. As Koays put out a bunch of feats for her, I’m going to funnel it into a slightly different direction piggybacking off of what he said. Psi-bolts alone have bypassed high powered individuals or hurt them. She’s done it to Storm 3x that a psi bolt can harm her, once by surprise, 2nd time their fight, and Emma’s psychic backlash when her powers broke when she was angry Scott died and she hurt everyone at the school, Rachel and Storm included. She’s mapped her way through Cyclops’ mind twice, even regarding his psychic defenses when he sleeps, and then using that to her advantage to shut down Sinister’s hivemind. She did so against Shaw when she couldn’t break through his defenses and used an illusion to lure him in a false sense of winning and bypassed his defenses to erase his memory.
Point being, even if you throw Grey Hulk a bone in terms of defenses, they still effected him to a degree, whether brief pain or even slight control, aside from Selene’s, and I wouldn’t put them on Emma’s level in terms of telepathy. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Emma can get an initial plant in Grey Hulk’s head and work her way around if not go straight for the psi bolt eventually. Emma’s expertise is her psychic surgery, she’s a scalpel with the power of a hammer. Throwing in her diamond form, she’s capable of taking his hits. It’s her fight to lose.
On topic and excusing Wolverine instances of mind control as if Logan isn’t brainwashed or controlled every other week, Emma has a knack for being able to get around psychic defenses and stronger opponents, even outside of straight of power. As Koays put out a bunch of feats for her, I’m going to funnel it into a slightly different direction piggybacking off of what he said. Psi-bolts alone have bypassed high powered individuals or hurt them. She’s done it to Storm 3x that a psi bolt can harm her, once by surprise, 2nd time their fight, and Emma’s psychic backlash when her powers broke when she was angry Scott died and she hurt everyone at the school, Rachel and Storm included. She’s mapped her way through Cyclops’ mind twice, even regarding his psychic defenses when he sleeps, and then using that to her advantage to shut down Sinister’s hivemind. She did so against Shaw when she couldn’t break through his defenses and used an illusion to lure him in a false sense of winning and bypassed his defenses to erase his memory.
Point being, even if you throw Grey Hulk a bone in terms of defenses, they still effected him to a degree, whether brief pain or even slight control, aside from Selene’s, and I wouldn’t put them on Emma’s level in terms of telepathy. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Emma can get an initial plant in Grey Hulk’s head and work her way around if not go straight for the psi bolt eventually. Emma’s expertise is her psychic surgery, she’s a scalpel with the power of a hammer. Throwing in her diamond form, she’s capable of taking his hits. It’s her fight to lose.
Okay, there is some misinformation where Storm is concerned. The first time Emma overwhelmed Storm, it was because Storm's mental defenses hadn't developed enough to where she could withstand Emma.
After that, Emma tried to kill Storm with a mindblast in their next encounter. Storm's willpower had grown to where she effortlessly shrugged it off. So, Emma cannot beat Storm's mental defenses unless she catches Ororo unawares. Storm has an active mental defense, not a passive one like when Psylocke was immune to telepathy. Therefore, Storm has to actively assert her willpower and/or bolster the electrical field in her brain to beat out a telepathic attack. Cannon has proven that when Storm is written with her mental defenses at their best (some writers ignore this aspect of Ororo's character), neither Emma or any other telepath cannot work around them. Storm is just that good.
Case in point: It was established in X-Treme X-Men that Emma was the deadliest telepathic foe to Ororo since she knew Storm's mind as well as she knew her own.
If you'll notice, from the first scan, as I stated earlier, Storm's defenses are too far beyond Emma eventhough Emma knows her mind better than any other psi which made her the deadliest psi to fight Ororo. In effect, not even Emma's mindblast can bypass Ororo's mental defenses.
Then, you get Bogan (a Xavier level psi) who had Rachel's power added to his own. He took the knowledge Emma had about Ororo's mind (which was all the backdoors into Ororo's psyche) and tried to use it to get at Ororo only to fail when Storm channeled electricity, thus amplifying the electrical power in her brain. This, in effect, fried Bogan-Rachel out of her mind: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ncdiOxD3Vz16PZyiTOBU0sIuOmjfjHT65_3iJCiFaHTYVDak_aChNQ7qt2T9ao5WcqJLlMMyWXc=s1600
So, we have two instances of a telepath who knew all the backdoors into Storm's psyche try and attack her, and both failed. The first was Emma with a mindblast in Uncanny X-Men #152, and the second was Bogan-Rachel in X-Treme X-Men #23.
Also, Emma being able to harm Storm with a surprise mind attack doesn't count as getting around her defenses. To be honest, if Storm is being written at her best, no telepath can best her mental defenses when said defenses are on high alert. That said, I repeat, not every writer acknowledges Storm's mental defenses and/or give them their full historical due.
So, yeah, Emma beating Wolverine's mind twice, even while his mental defenses were mentioned in one of the encounters, and Jean failing against Logan, certainly does count as a win for Emma.
Not only that, but when Jean had Psylocke's telepathy added to her own during Revolution, when you compare the power output of Jean's strongest attack where her full power was honed to its sharpest edge and focused into in single attack, the mental damage it yielded paled in comparison to Emma's mindblast.
Notice, too, how that was Jean's best when her TP was boosted by the addition of Psylocke's psi-strength while Emma's mindblast, on the other hand, wasn't said to be her full power.
Now, while some may try and argue that Jean overcame psi-blocking tech later in Uncanny X-Men #383 that were similar to the ones that stopped her in the Russian government building, those blockers, though similar, were obviously weaker. I make this claim since it was never established she could break through the government ones and she said flat out she couldn't.
@underfire47: Resisting Mercy, Selene and Leader mean nothing here because none of them are on Emma's level even remotely.
Jean has been stated to be Emma's superior but the only clash they've actually had where Jean didn't have the Phoenix was when Emma's attack on someone else was overwhelming Jean.
Emma has actually fought Classic Green Phoenix, resisted New X-Men Phoenix tapping Jean, shielded from the crazed Phoenix from Warsong, restrained and defeated the Phoenix tapping Cuckoos, blocked out the Phoenix's connection to it's host and placed a psychic collar around the neck of the Phoenix to help restrain it....she has more feats against the Phoenix Force then any other character....so yes even if she can't beat it, she has shown she can reliably defend against and effect it and it's host.
The resistances of Magneto, Wolverine, Storm and Xavier are all willpower, anger and trauma based.
Emma talked Sentry down the first time. The second time she got into his head she seperated him from the void and then restrained it long enough for him to retake control.
Grey Hulk hasn't faced anyone on her level of power telepathically and she's arguably one of the most skilled psychics at taking over and infecting minds......he doesn't have the feats to do much of anything here to slow her down.
As far as breaking her, Emma isn't diamond, she's organic diamond. She's a whole different of bullshit, if she can take hits from Juggernaut, WWH, Blackbolt's shout at close range and multiple shots from a Celestial...she can take whatever this Hulk tries to do.
You need a stronger hulk, with better anti-tp feats
It's possible, Emma certainly seems to have better feats from what i have seen, my problem is Emma had some questionable showings, like the fact that even amped with the PF she couldn't do anything TP wise to Thor
And Thor doesn't have the best TP resistance out there. She also while amped by PF failed to restrain mentally Ross
Who also has been TP'd easily by someone like Xemnu. So i guess i am wondering about her consistency.
As for her her organic diamond form, once again when when amped she was shattered by Thor quite easily, she has tanked a lot of hits but that's mostly because a lot of the characters don't want to shatter her form, WWH could break her with ease if he wanted to but we all know he held back the entire event specifically from killing anyone. Hell Maestro has broken Ruby Summers(daughter of Scott and Emma from an alternate future) ruby form before and he was specifically not angry during that point
IIRC Emma had her diamond form broken by Medusa as well and maybe that's a low end feat but it still makes way more sense to me thank thinking Emma can take hits from Celestials, then again Spiderman has tanked hits from Celestials as well so they aren't really the best benchmarks.
There is also a suspicious incident where both Emma and Jean failed to get inside Hulks head and while it's not specified the comic makes it seem like he was in his Grey form at the time
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So that makes me suspicious, but i guess if we go by the high ends she should take him out with TP, not sure how easy that would be though.
@underfire47: Emma in AvX was basically there to look pretty and be used for PIS.
Emma magically couldn't restrain Thor because plot...but the same issue where the Avengers say that as far as telepaths are concerned Emma is out of their league....Rachel Grey and Xavier both get into Thor's mind.
The same Rachel Grey and Xavier who have trouble with one Mr. Sinister.....meanwhile Phoenix Emma overloaded 7 of his clones amped by Cerebro and a hivemind while scanning for him. Inconsistency is heavy with AvX Emma.
Outside of AvX she's one of the most consistent psychics, being able to repeatedly block Xavier's powers, get past his best defenses and training and walk through and enter minds from the other side of the world without any loss of power level.
As for shattering her....the Celestials body was defending it's self from Sinister's attempts to kill it. When it hit Colossus it blew his chest open. When it hit Emma the first time she no sold it and the second time she only lost an arm.
Ruby Summers isn't made out of organic diamond...she isn't as durable Emma is and the fight with Maestro despite being written by Peter David who made both of them....occured in Battleworld where pretty much nothing is canon because we aren't even sure if it's the same Maestro or Ruby we're used to seeing....logically going by Ruby's AND Maestro's timelines...it shouldn't be.
Not being able to sense someone doesn't mean he resisted them. It means they couldn't find him....that's not much of a case considering everyone an their mother has a way to cloak or hide their thoughts from telepaths finding them...it doesn't help in combat.
The Thor feat gets thrown around too much and isn’t really feasible, IMO. If we want to accept the Thor feat as legit, then in counter, Diamond Emma also no sold slashes from X-23, they did nothing. All of Emma’s “high end” durability feats were consistent up to that point with Thor. The collapse of Genosha, blows from a highly amped Sebastian Shaw, one blow from the Dreaming Celestial’s head before a second blast just severed an arm when a single blast from a probe sent Colossus across San Francisco and ripped a massive hole in his chest. And if we want to argue “WWH didn’t want to hurt her” yet he had no problem ripping the arms of Rockslide and crippling Colossus. He could’ve done the same thing to Emma. Instead, she still took hits from him and he planted her in the ground. Maybe over time he could break her, but let’s not dismiss that showing in favor of Thor casually breaking an amped Emma, Hell, I’d argue she let it happen since she could clearly control every single piece and used them to spear Thor. The Thor feat itself makes no sense. And Medusa cracking her also made no sense if she’s tanking screams from Blackbolt because the feats of her durability favor those of her being capable of tanking hits from bricks, WWH included.
@olorun: It isn't. It's just extremely vulnerable without a host. But people seem to consider it greater without a host, despite the contrary showing. Anyways, the reality is, while the Phoenix has god-tier showings, it has been targeted before. It can't be killed, but it can be attacked still. If you want showings of the Phoenix
Here, the Phoenix literally mind-wipes Jean Grey so clear that Xavier cant find a trace of the memory, nnor could Jean herself recall it.
In these scans, Xavier is trapped in a psychic prison in the depths of Rachel Summers psyche by the Phoenix for a good 10 hours, a feat so sophisticated that it required enough power for a small percentage of it to kill Xavier had the Phoenix been hostile instead of just trapping Xavier.
Here, the Phoenix takes Jean's form in Rachel's psyche and kicks Xavier out when Xavier tries to fight out of the prison. Xavier is one of the most powerful telepaths alongside Jean Grey.
That is all I am gonna put, but there are more. But it should be plain to see the Phoenix is far from a mid-tier.
@koays: AvX is full of inconsistencies but that's also not the best excuse ever, because at the end of the day Xavier is a better telepath than Emma, maybe not as precise but more raw power for sure.
That depends i guess on the hit itself, because you can't no sell the same hit that blows off your arm, the differences there are night and day.
No she is made of organic Ruby, she isn't because ruby isn't as durable as diamond but it's pretty close. The reason i brought it up is even if it's not canon that's still ruby, unless the properties of ruby are different just because it takes place in an alternate timeline for some reason, otherwise it's fine to use, it would be like someone tanking adamantium bullets or something in an alternate future unless there is some reason to suspect that adamantium isn't as tough as the one we have in present 616 there is no reason to dismiss it.
Maybe the problem is they knew where he was and he wasn't hiding from them, they just couldn't sense his mind which is what makes me suspicious. Otherwise yea i know even people with next to no TP defenses have successfully hidden themselves from telepaths.
@olorun: Not sure what kind of feats you would be looking for telepathically, since what it does to Xavier is exactly within the range of skyfathers. Debatably better since the skyfather characters don't fight telepaths, making their feats limited.
@koays: AvX is full of inconsistencies but that's also not the best excuse ever, because at the end of the day Xavier is a better telepath than Emma, maybe not as precise but more raw power for sure.
That depends i guess on the hit itself, because you can't no sell the same hit that blows off your arm, the differences there are night and day.
No she is made of organic Ruby, she isn't because ruby isn't as durable as diamond but it's pretty close. The reason i brought it up is even if it's not canon that's still ruby, unless the properties of ruby are different just because it takes place in an alternate timeline for some reason, otherwise it's fine to use, it would be like someone tanking adamantium bullets or something in an alternate future unless there is some reason to suspect that adamantium isn't as tough as the one we have in present 616 there is no reason to dismiss it.
Maybe the problem is they knew where he was and he wasn't hiding from them, they just couldn't sense his mind which is what makes me suspicious. Otherwise yea i know even people with next to no TP defenses have successfully hidden themselves from telepaths.
Xavier isn't that much stronger then Emma....certainly not at all with the Phoenix. Creator statements, Emma feats and scaling off of what Phoenix Five Emma did to the Sinister hivemind say all that and more....it's really not worth explaining Xavier's side when Emma fought Thor in the same issue that Psylocke couldn't beat Daredevil.
The hit that blew off her arm was from 5 Celestial anti-bodies.
Your trying to compare an amplified fictional diamond to an amplified fictional ruby and use the gap between the normal forms to scale the gap between the fictional ones.....and then implying that multiversal rules don't apply and diamond is diamond in every verse. Adamantium on Wolverines isn't even consistent across verses...so why would we scale Emma Frost to an alternate version of her alternate future daughter who has an alternate variation on her power?
I'm not touching the Wolverine scan....If we table them not being able to find him, then I can go in to many directions to point out all the ways they usually find people who shield themselves that would've made finding him a literal after thought.
@underfire47: "AvX is full of inconsistencies but that's also not the best excuse ever, because at the end of the day Xavier is a better telepath than Emma, maybe not as precise but more raw power for sure."
Not by much and certainly not in skill. This statement becomes completely false when considering that the Phoenix is involved. So your answer is not valid in the least.
"That depends i guess on the hit itself, because you can't no sell the same hit that blows off your arm, the differences there are night and day."
koays already went into the differences of the blasts.
"No she is made of organic Ruby, she isn't because ruby isn't as durable as diamond but it's pretty close. The reason i brought it up is even if it's not canon that's still ruby, unless the properties of ruby are different just because it takes place in an alternate timeline for some reason, otherwise it's fine to use, it would be like someone tanking adamantium bullets or something in an alternate future unless there is some reason to suspect that adamantium isn't as tough as the one we have in present 616 there is no reason to dismiss it."
Organic Ruby doesn't exist in the 616, so there is literally nothing to compare it too. And no, real rubies aren't what you should compare to. If it were, then organic ruby for sure would be nowhere near Emma's organic diamond. Organic Ruby is literally canon to only that universe.
"Maybe the problem is they knew where he was and he wasn't hiding from them, they just couldn't sense his mind which is what makes me suspicious. Otherwise yea i know even people with next to no TP defenses have successfully hidden themselves from telepaths."
Already gone over this with you. Still not an example to use against telepaths. If the telepaths knew where he was, they literally have no reason to go on a search for him. What is more, they would send more than just Wolverine to check out the gate if it were such a pressing matter. That feat is just not viable to use when you consider that only Wolverine showed up and literally no other mutant showed up. It's a Wolverine story. The point is to center on Logan, not anyone else.
@koays: AvX is full of inconsistencies but that's also not the best excuse ever, because at the end of the day Xavier is a better telepath than Emma, maybe not as precise but more raw power for sure.
That depends i guess on the hit itself, because you can't no sell the same hit that blows off your arm, the differences there are night and day.
No she is made of organic Ruby, she isn't because ruby isn't as durable as diamond but it's pretty close. The reason i brought it up is even if it's not canon that's still ruby, unless the properties of ruby are different just because it takes place in an alternate timeline for some reason, otherwise it's fine to use, it would be like someone tanking adamantium bullets or something in an alternate future unless there is some reason to suspect that adamantium isn't as tough as the one we have in present 616 there is no reason to dismiss it.
Maybe the problem is they knew where he was and he wasn't hiding from them, they just couldn't sense his mind which is what makes me suspicious. Otherwise yea i know even people with next to no TP defenses have successfully hidden themselves from telepaths.
Xavier isn't that much stronger then Emma....certainly not at all with the Phoenix. Creator statements, Emma feats and scaling off of what Phoenix Five Emma did to the Sinister hivemind say all that and more....it's really not worth explaining Xavier's side when Emma fought Thor in the same issue that Psylocke couldn't beat Daredevil.
The hit that blew off her arm was from 5 Celestial anti-bodies.
Your trying to compare an amplified fictional diamond to an amplified fictional ruby and use the gap between the normal forms to scale the gap between the fictional ones.....and then implying that multiversal rules don't apply and diamond is diamond in every verse. Adamantium on Wolverines isn't even consistent across verses...so why would we scale Emma Frost to an alternate version of her alternate future daughter who has an alternate variation on her power?
I'm not touching the Wolverine scan....If we table them not being able to find him, then I can go in to many directions to point out all the ways they usually find people who shield themselves that would've made finding him a literal after thought.
But he is stronger is my point, outside of AvX, just speaking in general.
Can you show me the scans of 5 Celestial anti-bodies, or better yet site me the comic that it happened in.
Yes, i think it's perfectly fine to do so as long as there are no reasons to point othwerise, titanium, iron, adamantium, wood, water, air, everything should have the same consistency as long as it's not specified, like it is in the Ultimate universe for instance were adamantium is way weaker so you get people ripping Logan apart multiple times, but that's because it's specified to be weaker. Because i am scaling the properties of diamond and ruby, not Ruby and Emma themselves.
That's the problem, they knew where he was, they knew someone was there, they didn't have a problem finding him, they just couldn't get into his mind to see who it is.
@pyrofn: Not by much and certainly not in skill. This statement becomes completely false when considering that the Phoenix is involved. So your answer is not valid in the least.
But he is stronger and i already said she is likely more skilled, so you are repeating what i already said.
koays already went into the differences of the blasts.
Yes, you could have just skipped this part.
Organic Ruby doesn't exist in the 616, so there is literally nothing to compare it too. And no, real rubies aren't what you should compare to. If it were, then organic ruby for sure would be nowhere near Emma's organic diamond. Organic Ruby is literally canon to only that universe.
I wasn't talking about 616, is there any specific reference that Emmas organic diamond form is more durable than regular diamonds?
Already gone over this with you. Still not an example to use against telepaths. If the telepaths knew where he was, they literally have no reason to go on a search for him. What is more, they would send more than just Wolverine to check out the gate if it were such a pressing matter. That feat is just not viable to use when you consider that only Wolverine showed up and literally no other mutant showed up. It's a Wolverine story. The point is to center on Logan, not anyone else.
Yea and i disagreed with your assessment, the intent of the comic was clear. Hulk was the "big bad" of the comic that guys like Emma and Jean couldn't even affect from Wolverines standpoint. For obvious plot purposes and the fact that Hulk and Wolverine are rivals, so no they wouldn't send multiple X-men it was a comic from Wolverines perspective, Wolverine has gone by himself to check out things before and Jean and Emma were plot devices used to hype up the "Devil boss".
@underfire47: 1) No, I’m not. I clarified not by much and again, the Phoenix makes this statement completely wrong.. I am only referring to that one comment I replied to, so if you did mention Emma’s skill, I wouldn’t know.
2) If you mean direct statements, I can’t recall off the top of my head. Based on feats, a real life diamond can be broken by a an ordinary hammer. Compare that to Emma’s Diamond form, which can casually withstand Scott’s optic blast at full intensity.
3) In what world would anyone decide not to send a team of X-Men after the Hulk? Your explanation basically proves that the story is very much a product of PIS.
@pyrofn: no skyfathers like odin have evenly hanged with cosmic entities like galactus who would stomp xavier just by flexing their tp. Xavier is more on his heralds level.
@olorun: he didn't say Xavier is sky father level. He said the Phoenix is sky father level.
Seeing how Phoenix Jean with blocks on her power can fight galactus, and Phoenix Rachel has beaten galactus, then I don't see what's wrong with that statement.
Phoenix Jean was able to stretch someone's mind to touch and see everything I'm the universe, and Phoenix Rachel was able to read every mind in the universe. The Phoenix being on the moon was able to put Xavier and Legion on the ground in pain without doing anything.
I think those are good enough feats to show how strong the Phoenix is.
Edit: Oh seems you guys are talking about hostless Phoenix, guess the incidents I brought up don't count
@del_torro: heralds like norrin have felt the emotions of half of universe when thanos snapped. Galactus although he lost has fought a multiversal being made out of pure consciousness. No phoenix character has ever tp'd galactus. Phoenix is supposedly galactus level but tp feats don't come close.
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