Count Dooku vs Revan and Lord Scourge

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nfactor1995

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Standard gear, all abilities allowed, all are at the peaks of their power, and the fight is to the death. Revan and Scourge have perfect teamwork for this fight. Takes place in a large hangar, full of ships. Who wins and why?

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PreCrisisBardock

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Team stomps.

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106me

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#3  Edited By 106me

Team.

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kcomicfan

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team Stomps hard. Revan and Scourge held of Vitiate, arguably one of the most powerful sith of all time, for a short time.

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serpinethegreen

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@kcomicfan:

TBF Vitiate was a pi$$ poor dualist, whereas Dooku is one of the greatest ones. I'd say the team wins, but not necessarily a stomp.

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magnus18

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TheVivas

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Team easily.

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WollfMyth209

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Team easily. Revan VS Dooku on it's own is a great fight, adding in Scourge adds to Dooku's defeat.

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TheMuser

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Team FTW!

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WollfMyth209

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WollfMyth209

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#15  Edited By WollfMyth209
@darthant66 said:

You think the guy who is regularly beaten by bounty hunters = that team?

Dooku isn't regularly getting beaten by Bounty Hunters, lol. Dooku is also consistently giving Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi together a great fight.

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ShootingNova

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Revan's taking on and beating eight-man strike teams in "a great fight."

You think the guy who is regularly beaten by bounty hunters = that team?

lmfao

It's hilarious when Ant uses the best possible showing for one party, and then uses some low showing for the opposition just to exaggerate the disparity.

Anyway, Revan isn't stomping Dooku, but with Scourge's aid he probably will.

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WollfMyth209

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#18  Edited By WollfMyth209

@darthant66: Obi was never an equal to Dooku. He stalemated him for like 30 seconds. Dooku is the rival of Anakin and Windu who are rank 9 duelists, while Obi I'd rank 8.

And even in RotS, Dooku holds out pretty well.

The idea of Revan stomping him is ridiculous.

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ShootingNova

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@darthant66:

Regularly in comparison to the amount of times he actually faces them.

lol

"Regular" is defined as "usual" or "happening frequently". Just own up to the fact that it's not regularly at all.

This made me laugh, actually. Revan's performance against the strike team isn't necessarily some "high showing," it's his regular.

In the Temple of Sacrifice battle he would have won if not for the intervention of spirit Revan. It's worth nothing he had the environmental advantage, but given how strong the team was he faced, that doesn't make the feat any less impressive. By the Forgotten Terrace, Revan is weakened and injured from his previous fight, in which portions of his Force essence was literally stripped away from the Machine Core. Once again he would have beat the team if not for spirit Revan. A 2 / 2 success rate against ultra-powerful strike-teams is pretty fantastic if you ask me. Then if you want to drop down a notch, his next best showings is fighting through entire armies of Mandalorians, Echani, Rakata, and Dark Jedi. His combat feats have always been OP, and he has a few "casual" ones at all. They are all over the top.

It may not be his best possible showing, but it's one of his best. Try as hard as you want, that's pretty much undeniable, lol.

Compare that to Dooku who is pretty much the opposite, and literally no combat showings that remotely compare with what Revan did on Yavin IV. You could argue superior technical mastery (even then we have Kreia musing Revan mastered everything the Jedi Order had to offer to where he had nothing more to learn), but to stretch that argument to where Dooku could press Revan in "a great fight" because of such is, like I said, laughable. Revan's a vastly more powerful, knowledgeable, and masterful Force-user with greater combat showings, hype, battlefield experience, speed, durability, and precognition. Also, Dooku's Force-barrier obviously isn't stronger than the combined might of Darth Marr, Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, and the Hero of Tython, so it's possible Revan's dominating Dooku right off the spot via Telekinesis.

Technical mastery of lightsaber combat? Pretty irrelevant, since Dooku taught Grievous all the forms (and has since sparred with Grievious repeatedly), he just prefers Makashi in practicality. As for speed, Dooku is faster than somebody who can deflect omnidirectional blaster fire from ten thousand droids at once, so I doubt there's a serious disparity either way (seeing as Dooku has held his own against a faster Yoda as well). I don't deny that there's a disparity in the Force, but I doubt Revan would win sabers against somebody who held his own against Yoda.

By the by, more than one quote lists Yoda as being unable to defeat Dooku with the Force, so Revan won't be destroying (or even beating) him in the Force either :P

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JediXMan

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#21  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

Revan should not be stomping Dooku, who is likely his superior when it comes to lightsaber combat. Revan is superior in the Force, but not in a lightsaber fight. It's amazing that one character can be both underrated and overrated constantly.

I for the life of me do not understand the Scourge hype, and I don't think he gives Revan enough of an edge.

My money is on Dooku simply out of spite. The Makashi user deserves some respect for once.

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WollfMyth209

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#23  Edited By WollfMyth209

@darthant66:

Kenobi was moving faster than Dooku could perceive with a defense so well constructed that it deflected his assaults almost casually. :\

What? Through out that entire fight, Dooku moved faster than Obi. There's no indication Dooku couldn't percieve him, lol. And he didn't deflect his assault almost casually.

lol what? Dooku was "terrified" during the battle

He was terrified when they switched styles and surprised him, and then he adjusted well enough to counter later on.

even before Skywalker began utterly pounding him into the curb.

You mean when Dooku was tired and Anakin was grossly amped by his rage? lol

At the moment, the only thing ridiculous is denying it. You haven't supplied any evidence, just that you believe Dooku to be more powerful than Marr/Shan/Hero/Beniko/Scourge combined, which is laughable.

Strawman. I never said Dooku > That team. I said Dooku would give Revan a good fight. And you didn't exactly give much evidence yourself, just lowball all of Dooku's feats.

EDIT: A case for Dooku beating Revan is being made on ComicVine? What sorcery is this?

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Pharoh_Atem

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#25  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

Ant is wanking Revan as usual, KEK.

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WollfMyth209

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#27  Edited By WollfMyth209

@darthant66:

Sigh, why do you debate a character you don't really know much about?

Implying I don't know Dooku is like saying you don't know Revan. And that never says Obi moved faster than Dooku, it just said he deflected his assault only once did it mention he did it easily(when he leaped over one of Dooku's attacks). However, the RotS novel itself showed Dooku moving faster than Obi, and other sources stated it, as well:

Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half; he used his last burst of dark power to continue his spin into a blindingly fast wheel-kick that brought his heel against the point of Kenobi's chin with a crack like the report of a huge-bore slugthrower, knocking the Jedi Master back down the stairs. Sounded like he'd broken his neck.

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Count Dooku half-turned and raised a hand. A rush of dark power lifted Obi-Wan off his feet and choked the air from his lungs. He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden. He saw Dooku twist, kicking out at Anakin with all his weight behind it. Anakin fell backward, and Dooku hurled Obi-Wan over the edge of the balcony.

Source: Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization

The two droids fired at Obi-Wan, but he batted their fired energy bolts back at them and cut them down as he moved fast for Dooku. Unfortunately, Dooku moved faster,

Source: The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader

Whereas all Dooku need do was to slip from one side to another-and occasionally flip over a head here and there-so that he could fight each of them in turn, rather than both of them at the same time. He supposed that in their own milieu, they might actually prove reasonably effective; it was clear that their style had been developed by fighting as a team against large numbers of opponents. They were not prepared to fight together against a single Force-user, certainly not one of Dooku's power; he, on the other hand, had always fought alone. It was laughably easy to keep the Jedi tripping and stumbling and getting in each other's way.

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Then it goes on to say Dooku dominated the early stages of combat:

They didn't even comprehend how utterly he dominated the combat. Because they fought as they had been trained, by releasing all desire and allowing the Force to flow through them, they had no hope of countering Dooku's mastery of Sith techniques They had learned nothing since he had bested them on Geonosis.

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Then you consider Dooku, while drugged, kept up with both Asajj and two other Nightsisters. Asajj is generally Obi's speedclass. And Grievous, a person whom Dooku outfenced, has pressured Obi-Wan's defenses in the same novel.

No, he was terrified because he realized he could lose - and that he might die. You should read the novel, it's pretty great.

Read it, loved it. And Dooku realized he could lose and die, but that's after he was taken back by Skywalker and Kenobi pressing their offense and changing up their forms. And even then, Dooku managed to adjust and counter:

It was time to alter his own tactics. He dropped low and spun into another reverse anklesweep - the weakness of Djem So was it's lack of mobility - that slapped Skywalker's boot sharply enough to throw the young Jedi off balance,

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

Dooku got tired because of Anakin Skywalker beating him down, lawl.

So Dooku wasn't tired from a 2v1 fight against two enemies of similar skill pressuring him? Rather weak logic.

And no, this was before Skywalker had his "oh I get it now" moment. The text even notes how Skywalker was holding back his fury.

The text you provided doesn't even note that. And the novel later notes that all of Anakin's fury had been unleashed:

And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy.

The play goes on, but the suspense is over. It has become mere pantomime, as intricate and as meaningless as the space-time curves that guide galactic clusters through a measureless cosmos.

Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.

Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.

It is this knowledge that shows him his death, makes him handle it, turn it this way and that in his mind, examine it in detail like a black gemstone so cold it burns. Dooku's elegant farce has degenerated into bathetic melodrama, and not one shed tear will mark the passing of its hero.

But for Anakin, in the fight there is only terror, and rage.

Only he stands between death and the two men he loves best in all the world, and he can no longer afford to hold anything back. That imaginary dead-star dragon tries its best to freeze away his strength, to whisper him that Dooku has beaten him before, that Dooku has all the power of the darkness, to remind him how Dooku took his hand, how Dooku could strike down even Obi-Wan himself seemingly without effort and now Anakin is all alone and he will never be a match for any Lord of the Sith-But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in its flame.

When Count Dooku flies at him, blade flashing, Watto's fist cracks out from Anakin's childhood to knock the Sith Lord tumbling back.

When with all the power that the dark side can draw from throughout the universe, Dooku hurls a jagged fragment of the durasteel table, Shmi Skywalker's gentle murmur I knew you would come for me, Anakin smashes it aside.

His head has been filled with the smoke from his smothered heart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens his mind. On Aargonar, on Jabiim, in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but here now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.

In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.

Decide.

So he does.

He decides to win.

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade.

He reaches out and the Force catches it for him.

And then Anakin takes Dooku's other hand as well.

Dooku crumples to his knees, face blank, mouth slack, and his weapon whirs through the air to the victor's hand, and Anakin finds his vision of the future happening before his eyes: two blades at Count Dooku's throat.

Source: Revenge of the Sith novel

The first line itself said that Anakin's fury consumed his Jedi restraints and he unleashed it with his lightsaber, so yeah.

First off, I hate when people say "strawman." It's pretty laughable as a rebuttal. You did say it, even if you didn't write it. Your argument is clearly that Dooku can handle Revan's telekinesis well enough for it to be a "great fight" despite Revan instantly overwhelming the barriers of that combined strike team.

First of all, Revan was amped, he gathered energy to break their Force defenses. Malgus also broke the defense of Darth Nox, Wrath, THoT, Barsen, etc. But they still beat him, nonetheless. And Yoda couldn't just overwhelm Dooku, either(albeit he was holding back):

The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other.

Source: The complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Therefore, it's obvious you think Dooku can hold out better than them, hence "Dooku > That team." If your line of reasoning is different then this, then you are probably wrong on something else, which I will correct you on, and you'll then fall back to this point. It's inevitable and the only argument you can make for Dooku to possibly hope to win.

I don't think he can hold better than them, I just don't think Revan could unleash such a wave that could throw the Count back while he's engaged with a duelist of similar, or superior skill. And then you consider that nobody in the strike team is even that impressive a Force user. Satele and Marr don't have any TK feats comparable to Dooku, Lana is pretty much featless and the rest are non-Force sensitives, bearing the player character who Revan couldn't just ragdoll.

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nfactor1995

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@darthant66: How do you think Revan would fare against ROTS era Anakin Skywalker?

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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holy smokes this should of been a CaV judging from the debate lol

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nfactor1995

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@darthant66: 10/10? What if Anakin went into his fully unleashed rage mode?

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darthbane77

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Ultimately Revan and Scourge win. I believe that Revan alone could best Dooku with some effort; the saber duel would be good, but Revan's Force abilities are superior to Dooku's. I'd say Scourge gets wounded, then Revan uses his "Force in balance" abilities and kills Dooku.

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TheMuser

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holy smokes this should of been a CaV judging from the debate lol

My Thoughts exactly! Things are heating up here folks!

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@darthant66: I guess that is the biggest question, and so far its ranging from a close fight to a stomp

@themuser:ikr? XD

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nfactor1995

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@darthant66: It's interesting comparing the novels to the movies because most of the stuff that has been posted here regarding the characters' thoughts during that fight aren't really portrayed in the movie. Like Dooku is never seen as afraid of either opponent, in fact he seems to be almost toying with them until Anakin goes berserk. Even then it wasn't like the Count was struggling to fight Anakin, just being driven backwards. It never looked like he was overmatched until he lost his hands, at least that's how it came across to me.

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ShootingNova

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@darthant66: Hilarious to see you resorting your usual walls of text so that I don't respond and you can add it as a concession. I'll respond later. I'm not prioritizing this or anything though.

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ShootingNova

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@darthant66: It's previous obvious what your intention is, lol, and you've admitted that wank Revan harder on CV because I'm one of the few people here who actually know anything about him.

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ShootingNova

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#43  Edited By ShootingNova

@darthant66:

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Pretty pitiful when you realize that the post was accompanied by a PM of this:

tbh ill delete my postif ya back downsince im a generous god

lmfao Blackmail much?

forged quotes before too lol and I fooled Silver with them.

Mmm... I wonder which PM you got that from. The same place you got this?

thing is CV has no knowledge on anything KotOR Besides me and Nova so I have free reign on so many feats i otherwise couldnt get away with

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TheMuser

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@darthant66:

I don't recall my space bar being so shit. Likewise, like I said, I am a generous god. I will spare your life if you decide not to go on your holy crusade, or you will die if you do. It's not as much as blackmail as accepting the consequences for daring to challenge me, my inferior. Would you call it blackmail if a warlord spared the life of a peasant as long as he doesn't try to steal his women? Or would you call it a generous move... from a generous god?

So......since when are you better at debating than Nova? I thought Nova/ILS are boss with regards to SW debating?

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@darthant66: I'd say Jedixman and silver would be up there too if they ever decided to join in battles for once in their lives again, well at least for character knowledge and debating skills.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@darthant66: Yes they are, sadly wish they would get into the debating against, both would of really posted some nice CaVs and stuff, like... the New guys vs the Classics heuehuehueheueu XD