Like a legit on screen showing where goku nukes out like 50000 timelines

Would comicvine battles crash?

@scotchbear: Why? The community is already bad enough. And Xeno Goku tards are making us look bad. Now imagine canon Goku being multiversal would just have wankers continue to have DB banned from battles threads.

You mean he isn't already?

Problem is if they make Goku legit multi-versal being. It would kill the fun out of DB series. I currently rank Goku Solar System one shot. In Firepower. There is enough evidence to say he can do it now.

Anyway If Goku became a consistent Multi-versal being it would be very difficult to debate using Goku. Considering the choices left with for debating against him. We would have to put him against beings like, for example Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet or similarly over powered beings.

Deaths would rise and they'd be completely unrelated to Gokus new status.

If you know what I mean.

They would lowball it saying the timelines are the size of buildings and that you have no evidence to say it isn't and that it actually is normal sized

They would probably remove the Dragon Ball thread from the whole website and then not allow the mention of anything DB related.

It would be a very fun time to lurk in CV

This needs to happen. So many people would quit CV due to having no purpose in life. Someone send a petition to Akira Toriyama idk..

It probably would not matter much.

@thedemonlord: People are already debunking Xeno Goku. Simply no purpose if the feats are gonna be debunked in hours ?.

DCEU Storyboard Artist Reveals 'Dragon Ball' Inspired 'Man of Steel' lmao hhh.

Yeah I'm sure an unironic battle between goku and the living tribunal wouldn't be toxic at all.

ahahahahha

@johncena69swag: DB wankers and Marvel wankers going at it would cause mayhem like Goku and Superman wankers war.

"Outlier, it doesn't count"

60% of comicvine.

Nothing that we haven't seen so far. Bunch of Goku vs abstract/celestial threads. Threads analysing his feat. Goku suddenly stomping many threads. Downplayers trying their hardest to discredit his feat (he still didn't bust any planet).

Also

When someone tanks a punch from Goku, suddenly he becomes multuversal in durability.

By default, it becomes a small muktoverse.

@empressofdread: I hope you’re kidding with solar system level... That made me literally Lol.

There’d be limitless toxicity and it’d cause further divide amongst debaters. Xeno goku is multiversal though he is rarely put into threads, guess a lot of people just don’t know about him too much.

The same as they did his "unversial" feat, they'll just ignore it.

No, not kidding. Whats there to kid? Do you have some feats or what ?

"Solar system level" lmao really? Shaking Universe in itself would require Multi-Galactic level of energy output not to mention all the statements siding it and especially for Gods of Destructions such as Beerus consistently on multiple occasions from sources who govern things outside of just the Universe (Angels/Celestial beings), plus Toshio (The writer himself) said it that if Goku was on God of Destruction level he can even destroy the Universe. Current MUI Goku is above even that and stomped someone who is already above Hakaishin level.

Even in Dragon Ball SD (which is a retelling of canon version of the manga from BoG), it is mentioned Beerus destroys a cluster of Galaxies for much less when he is in a very bad mood.

I hope you are not arguing for Super Goku being mere Solar System level because you won't be taken seriously by many of the people here cause he just surpassed the God of Destruction level recently and if you aren't aware I must tell you GoDs in DBS are filled with Skyfather feats and haxes. Some rare group also made excuse for the episode 12 thing to be outlier despite Super Saiyan God Goku (We are talking about a Goku who Jiren finger blocked, this same Goku was shaking entire fabric of Universe), the fact he nullified it in the episode itself which is why that event was prevented from happening again already debunks the whole outlier which isn't even the case with Gods of Destructions who MUI Goku surpassed.

MUI Goku has been tiered a Universal being by people and at least Multi-Galactic and that's not even wanking him at this moment.

Feats aren't everything since those said feats are done by people using the same powerset and on a weaker level. We have something called scaling which works perfectly with Gods of Destruction, Jiren, Goku and Angels at the very least.

By feats Margarita (Angel) is weaker than Krillin.

Fun fact is that Goku isn't even featless. Guy has shown Cosmic level fights and in the manga and anime if you combine he even has Hakai (Existence Erasure), Mafuba (Dimensional Sealing Technique, works even on stronger beings), Ultra Instinct "Omen" (Body moves on its own, instantaneous reaction, pure body combat speed and nigh unbeatable in skill) etc. All these are Godly tier Haxes and has shown Resistance to Time stopping abilities, Empathic Manipulation, Phasing, Telekinesis, Existence Erasure in Base etc. Heck, Vegeta resisted Absolute Zero in Base and broke out of it in mere SSJ. Goku is already touching mid or high level Skyfather level when he is in MUI state.

@thedeathstar: Shaking the universe is in the outlier category. The shockwaves were expanding by distance and a lot of crazy stuff had happened. We have star level feat for Beerus that is where we scale from. Apart from that I don't see anything solid in your argument. It is basically boiling down to Universal vs non universal Goku. Which I don't think he is.

Do you realize the star level feat happened while Beerus was sleepy and he sneezed one away? No one scales Beerus from that what are you talking about? Star level Beerus is your argument then you have no arguments but your headcanon which I don't take seriously now.

Lowballing them to solar system level and star level would be reaching it now even Author and story writer disagrees with you but I know how people are here, they disagree even with credible Authors. But its okay I understand you haven't seen the series or you need to rewatch it.

What? I scaled MUI Goku from Beerus. Because MUI > Beerus. I even made arguments using that, what are you talking about. Star level feat would have happened from a supressed Beerus but I think even SSB Goku can at least match a suppressed Beerus specially after TOP.

Headcannon? I am legitimately going by just solid feats and you think, I am using headcannons?

Feat logic while ignoring everything = Krillin stronger than Margarita. Nice argument.

so MUI Goku and Beerus are now Solar System level only xD? what? I swear comicvine people and their logic they can't see DB get even slight powerful and it already did.

The majority only ignore or disregards the outliers and nonsensical & contradictory statements. Think about it, if were are talking outliers even characters such as Thor have harmed legit Multiversal beings. Some fans actually do use that feat and it makes me laugh. I mean its all about debating at the end of the day, Thors fans will still continue to call him a multiversal MFTL god but in reality he will not even get Majority of Wonder Woman. So what I am trying to tell you here is there is no bias as some people think against Goku. Its just how comicvine is. In order for him to take a solid majority it needs to become more believable .

When did I make that argument actually ? Thats twisting things.

@durzo_bat:

They don't have any further feats to put them Somewhere else. There is no galaxy level energy projection or tanking. There is nothing else to go from, everything else is pure speculation and the universe shaking is a massive outlier. I am a DB fan too, but we can not speculate anything and take outliers into consideration. If we do then we have to do it for every other character as well. Otherwise its just a double standard.

You can't ignore statements made by credible beings, the narrator (omniscient in the context) and episode title itself. plus the Author trying to put those.

The feat was backed by statements and multiple of them and even mentioned it won't happen in near future most likely.

Plus it's not even a big deal considering everytime Gods of Destruction fought it endangered the Universe itself and it was mentioned if Champa and Beerus fought it would destroy both of their respecting Universes which puts them at Universal tier being individually because when they charge up, Angels have to come in and stop them and it has happened like 4-5 times and everytime GoDs were stopped from fighting due to level of their output.

Sorry but Solar System level Beerus is a joke at this point. Guy shakes and to the point almost destroying entire Universe in the process. Plus he also Nullified a Universal explosion point Blank which had covered entire Universe, The Kaioshin Realm and Heaven/Hell in a matter of Seconds.

Solid feat backed by statements from creator Gods and even Beerus himself. This is not speculation as he nullified that explosion on the panel and episode, it would be speculation to not consider it otherwise and try to ignore the feat when its even backed up by statements.

Feat logic doesn't work like that and Beerus isn't capped at Star level even by feats.

Omiscient now? Lol common now.

Yes there are multiple statements confirming it at least 3 I can remember from the top of my head.

The thing is that feat stands outside of an DB characters capability till GOD ritual that its an outlier, after that all we have is statements no replication of any sort of galaxy level feats. But we do get a star level feat for Beerus.

If Gods were universal then they wont be surprised at beings who can one shot universe, oh wait they do. This universal statement thing has been going on since Buu saga probably even earlier, god knows how many statements like these are thrown in DB. But when it comes to actual feats they lack in that department. Trust me if we have a galaxy level feat on panel, no one would argue it. But we don't till now. Could change in the future though lets see.

Sorry but Solar System level Beerus is a joke at this point. Guy shakes and to the point almost destroying entire Universe in the process. Plus he also Nullified a Universal explosion point Blank which had covered entire Universe, The Kaioshin Realm and Heaven/Hell in a matter of Seconds.

Solid feat backed by statements from creator Gods and even Beerus himself. This is not speculation as he nullified that explosion on the panel and episode, it would be speculation to not consider it otherwise and try to ignore the feat when its even backed up by statements.

Feat logic doesn't work like that and Beerus isn't capped at Star level even by feats.

Beerus best feats include destroying a star and then shaking the universe. Both of these feats have a massive difference of power level. A lot of things happening in that arc were outlandish. Sorry but no one takes DB seriously. Its not just me. I mean if you claim they can destroy solar systems then people might actually take your seriously. I'd understand that perception. Hence I stick to reliable feats.

Scaling is good work in universe vs universe, but its bad work in DB universe vs other universe. You can claim that Goku is universal but you will have a hard time proving Goku can universe bust in a battles debate. People will start poking holes in the solar system argument itself. I am being incredibly generous. Thats how debating works, your opponent will try to attack and question your feats no matter what. If there is a shred of evidence to the contrary its done for. Just giving an example here.

@thedeathstar: One dubious outlier universe feat in a series riddled with broken scaling and plot holes does NOT make some one universal

Not even Beerus has universal durability, if him and goku destroyed the universe then he was stated to be destroyed by old Kai, lets nit forget , lasers, wasabi, bullets and earths core

Yeah real great universal being

Firstly you don't understand how fiction works at all. The Narrator is an omniscient being in the context always.

Secondly, how would you feel if you put all efforts lifting 100 kg and a guy does it with his finger? See you like your arguments getting destroyed.

This time it wasn't a statement and you know it well don't try to ignore it. Beerus point blank nullfied a Universal explosion (not the shockwaves) and it happened whether you accept it or not.

Someone salty.

I have a perfect understanding of how the fiction works. It contradicts itself.

Second part, I am not even sure what you mean, you claim to have destroyed an argument yet you are failing to help yourself here.

Nullification? Oh yeah. He did it on panel there is no doubt about that. I am actually convinced Beerus can nullify energy, even though he rarely does it. However I am disagreeing on the level of energy these guys manipulate. They are not universal .

@durzo_bat: Are you an alt ? No I'm not salty lol those are facts

@empressofdread: You can argue outlier for Goku but Beerus consistently puts universe on the verge of destruction every time he engages in more serious battle. If u think MUI > Beerus (which was never directly stated btw) then MUI Goku is atleast multi-galaxy scaling from Beerus.

@gaoron: The thing is I don't really consider Beerus to be Universal either. I mean think about it before some time back I saw a Galactus vs Beerus cav which was not completed btw for the reasons which I don't want to state and should be obvious from my comments. Aside from that fact.

What I saw was that if Beerus was really universal he should have curb stomped Galactus. He can not because once you start questioning his feats there are so many loopholes and most of them are just statements not legit feats on panel. Beerus never actually destroyed a galaxy on panel.

Beerus is a team buster level character more likely sitting with the likes of Thanos. At the very best by higbballing could be Odin level. Who is still below Galactus.

They might give such feats for DB characters in the future. But since they are getting more appearances, we should not follow a double standard and ignore the same type of outlandish feats and statements from one character and use the same in favour of Goku or Beerus or Vegeta.

just tell this viners that there is no single character in fiction that can destroy a universe, and see that they would get more salty xd. every fiction can be debunked :d.

@empressofdread: Beerus on panel effected the universe putting it in jeopardy and on panel nullyfied universal destroying explosion. And it's consistent with later statements from manga, anime and writers. That's enough to put him at atleast multi-galaxy level. Odin nor Galactus never destroyed galaxy on panel either, it's all statements and narrative aswell.

@gaoron: I think I remember Odin destroying a galaxy. Classic Odin I mean. Galactus has probably not destroyed a galaxy on panel but it was stated in his fight against Tyrant that it must have destroyed "galaxies.". Its being stated to be done in narration. The thing is 616 is actually a very big universe. Just shaking the universe and implied power is not enough to make them sit at Galaxy level. Like I used to overrate Spectre by his implied powers. Post-crisis Spectre is actually not impressive, it was in pre-86 universe when Spectre actually did have some good feats like shaking the universe similar to how Goku and Beerus did. I think Beerus should be solar system level or multi-solar system level tops. We can no soundly claim galaxy level as of now, its an overreach IMO. Anyway I can agree to disagree on this topic now. My intention was not to spark a debate rather than just give my opinion on where I rank current post TOP Goku.

So, Galactus is solar system level now.

It's not just shaking the Universe, the feat was backed up by statements and was stated that it would destroy the Universe itself which it almost did before Beerus nullified the Blast. You will have to have the same level of output to nullify such force.

Galactus has universal statements as well and high level of hax such as TP. That does not make him universal. I have disagreement on the amount of energy the manipulate. Which is not galaxy level. Galactus is having solid statements plus "feats in narration" not by character. Remember being stated in narration is usually taking precedence over characters statement. Galactus is having contradictions too, but he has a lot of feats to corroborate too. Anyway like I said my intention was not to spark a debate. I dont care about Galactus I dont even like him as a character. I like Goku more but was just giving my take on where I rank Goku in SSB post TOP. Lets agree to disagree. I hope Goku gets more feats but right now he can not match characters like Galactus.

@empressofdread: Goku being universal in anything else then MUI is too much for me aswell. Goku should be between galaxy and multi galaxy level imo. Beerus having loopholes in feats and statements is not right tbh. In the manga, in the anime every time Beerus gets serious, it is mentioned that the universe will be destroyed, he can nullify Ki strong enough to destroy the universe aswell. In both manga and anime Beerus vs Champa was stated to be able to destroy the universe or both universes.

What always comes up is that he fears Zeno because he can erase the universe. Which is not a small thing tbh. Just thing about it, while Beerus needs to go all out to DESTROY the universe Zeno can do it with little to no effort from a different dimension with just putting his hand up. The other thing that is pointed on is the statement of a producer while he says that he thinks only Zeno can erase a universe he also said that GoDs could destroy it aswell but not wipe it out like Zeno.

The creator clearly has something in mind when saying that things making these statements and always talking about it when Beerus is mentioned. Authors intend is to make Beerus a universal threat. Can Beerus one-shot a universe? Hell no! Can he do it without using his full power? I don't think so. Can he destroy a universe when he goes all out. Yes, but not in the same way Zeno can do it.

Just what the difference between the shockwaves from Beerus and Goku and what Zeno does. While the shockwaves do destroy the universe it is one by one. Zeno hakais that sh*t.

@kratosx64x: Interesting. It does make sense I mean whenever these universal stuff or statement is happening it is when Beerus is around. I still think that most of the feats from Beerus is planetary and star level stuff. He is obviously much higher but then it directly jumps up to universal. That is why I think its a stretch. But I like your argument.

@empressofdread: on panel feats are planetary to star level right but it is more like from a sneeze or a tiny ki ball. But when he clashes with Goku or Champa the side effects are always threatening for the whole universe. I would totally agree with you if his full grown attacks would only destroy planets and stars. But thank you for you opinion on the topic. And thank you for the respect shown.

I would be pissed. Because from that point, all hope for the series would be gone. I miss the good old days of the android saga and cell saga, where there was a power creep but not necessarily too huge of a jump in power. Everything was more balanced out before the "gods" start showing their faces.

@deathhero61: but a lot of fans loved the huge power creep.

Other series (dc and marvel) get away with having ridiculous power Creep and people LOVE it.

Idk why db isn’t allowed to move up the power scale.