DC and Marvel get away with it because they are detailed and explain things and most of the feats speak for themselves. Nobody can agree on Goku's physical limits let alone his deztructive capacity. And that is due to a lack of detail

This

The power creep was humongous in the android arc they went from planet - dwarf star busters to solar system level

Tbh current characters being at least multi galaxy-universal makes alot of sense

Destroying 5000 timelines like the op said would be a stretch though it would also mean alot of the old flame wars being reignited

@deathhero61: that is a good joke if a heard some lol.

It really wasn't. Casual Planet busting started with Frieza and that level of power became more and more irrelevant as the characters grew more powerful. Star/Solar System level is extremely left to interpretation, and it wasn't as big as a deal because characters such as the saiyans weren't that far from the androids and cell, the gap wasn't too huge and didn't take long to close. Hell even Tien and Piccolo respectively played a part in the cell saga. (Piccolo being powerful enough to be acknowledged by trunks after his training for the cell games) In Buu Saga the issues with scaling started to show but were manageable, but then as soon as gods came into the picture there were several issues "how much did beerus hold back"? And then right after we get fights against Hit and 17, and similar combatants and people ask "oh is this character god level now? Ridiculous" The label of "gods" in DB has ruined the damn series and has made things more complicated, especially with the ROF and the whole "Goku's base form is stronger than ssj3" crackpot theories(which is based off inconsistent lore which hasn't been brought up since ROF/Super) and the TOP arc, where Krillin was sparring with Base Goku and doing well, Gohan fighting with SSJ1 Goku, several characters fighting base goku despite their respective showings.

Tbh current characters being at least multi galaxy-universal makes alot of sense

Not when the characters barely have the physical strength to move planets and such like most high-tiers do......or breath in space, or handle a planet's explosion when their energy reserves are down. Not when its actually a fair argument for radiation to kill the saiyans and other characters.

This series is a mess, the power creep doesn't fit with the limitations of the characters. We have to bust our balls to prove that the characters(that aren't beerus, whis, jiren and dypso among others) are faster than light, we have to bust our balls to prove that the characters can survive certain things or exceed certain levels of strength

@deathhero61: Frieza when cut in half and knocked out from goku's last kamehameha survived a planet explosion. And is weaker than namek saga ss1 goku...

Goku and Vegeta wouldn't have survived a planetary explosion, because not only are they extremely vulnerable without ki, but they cannot even breathe in space despite their tier.

@deathhero61: Setting an opinion on their durability without ki is really unfair. If frieza is weaker than ss1 goku then goku would survived it as well. And it doesn't matter if they can or can't breathe because they can easily travel to another planet in 5-10 minutes.

What's stopping the characters from creating air tight barriers around themselves so they can survive in space? Vegeta died from the explosion of earth due to his incapability to breathe in space. Its bad enough I have to accept that these characters are star level or galaxy level, but someone who has the potential to destroy a universe can't even breathe in space? That's horseshit,

@deathhero61: your argument is bad as hell aswell imo. Naruto characters without Chakra are the same, Ironman without his suit is just a human same goes for Lex Luthor. There are a lot of characters which would have the same issues especially in Anime/Manga.

@kratosx64x: he's got a point though.i mesn this is universe lv we are talking about here

@empressofdread: The Shockwaves are not actually shockwaves, they are waves that get more power the farther they travel from the distance of their point of origin, the timespan between the wave release and the a planet's destruction and its physical effect at earth which is Practically the point of origin, would result in a fair estimation of what the energy acceleration is, the only issue is where the energy is coming from?, it's a clear picture that the waves are not a physical feat, rather of a magic feat, and according to the author, Goku was 42% in par with beerus, meaning the shockwaves had 42% its power from goku and 58% from beerus, which is just a multi solare system feat, *Keso Yaro*.

@z223344354546: it is stupid as hell i know but somehow every character needs some BS weakness. Like i said Narutoverse Chakra, DB Verse Ki, Clark has Kryptonite, Magic and different sun radiations, Ironman is a human. It shouldn't be this way but somehow it is how it is. Other beings in DB like Frieza, Cell, Beerus don't have the same BS weaknesses .

@kratosx64x: cell may or may not be a solar system buster level character, Boo is definitely Planetary, and so is Frieza, other than that, it's all fair and square.

@phantomshepherdmanga:i really don't understand what you mean? We are talking about how these beings who are all between multi solar system to universe level can not surivive in space, which is pretty stupid but it is part of the mythos sadly, Buu, Cell, Frieza and Beerus don't have the same weak point to exploit they all can survive in space but the saiyan body can't.

If you mean all other characters are debatable to be on that level i would laugh pretty hard tbh. If you mean it is a fair point of how they can die you are right.

as much as i like dragonball,it really does have some stupid writing

@z223344354546: only db super.

@z223344354546: it does to a certain degree

Would be cool. At least he can surpass Superman if this happen.

@z223344354546: Boo was virtually killed by an Earth size planet's explosion, it was his infinite source of power / autonomous regeneration that saved him from his own demised fate, same for Frieza, Cell is the only one to show an impressive feat by exploding north kai planet which might level IT to a star level character.

Saiyans don't need air for a long period of time nor do they use the same level of air as humans do as evident by Goku being cool with the ionosphere, as shown when goku went to the moon via his power pole, if anything the Temperature might be why the saiyans can't outdo a planet's explosion as goku stated that the temperature in Earth's core would kill him, considering the Earth's core temperature is 10.000 Fahrenheit, that would be a retcon since goku withstood roshi Lightning technique and The Lightning was a constant Lightning release and its temperature would be more than 50.000 Fahrenheit, multiply that by the 10x multiplier of the ape form and it would be a 500.000 fahrenheit durability wise, would that mean teen Goku > DBS Goku?, The TV show is a mere filler by this point to the manga

Dragon Ball would be even less interesting than it is now with Super.

@buttersdaman000: how is that?, Super is simply an interqual in dragon ball, GT had far less sense and more powerful feats yet was still interesting even though it lacked the sense and intelligence in writing

like how Earth has more than one eternal dragon even though each eternal dragon must have a Grand elder namekian and their agreement with the supreme kais

the lack of Golden aura in Super saiyan 4 humanoid form rather than yellow, it's red even though the only form of saiyans to use red is either red God form or the super 0 form?

ultimate shenron effecting goku and changing his age even though it's an established information that the eternal dragons cannot effect a person without their consent

it contradicted the lore as much as it could though that might be justified as it's an alternative world as mei is shown old rather than young even though she wished eternal Youth alongside the pilaf gang Post namek saga which means GT take place even earlier than that. what a twist and a bizarre show to be canon for dragon ball

@joviolma: if you are talking about superman, then versions are important, the original superman par example one might say goku vs ironman though there is no established version of ironman whether it be a girl or a boy or whatever it might be even an alien, it's rather the codename that is in the battle than the character, so thought robot armor is not a character in that sense thus not the superman, Superman one million is not canon and just a composition or fanon thus not that character either, and any no kal character is not superman, which leaves only 52 superman and rebirth superman, which would be killed by Goku though it would be an interesting battle, goku: Destroy. Kal: noooooooo

@cull_obsidian: statements does not make one universal, feat does, the only impressive thing about those shockwaves is effecting the after life whose size and length is less than that of the biggest planet known in the universe that's 15 times that of jupiter, and destroying a rogue planet that's unknown to what it might be,feat wise, the shockwaves did only effect their solar system alongside a rogue planet, that's just solar system + and it's consistent with the already established information of beerus being only a star buster when angry according to elder kai, and i don't know why fans think goku cannot be effected by bullets, i guess that's their due for skipping dragon ball and jump forwarding into Z, Ki simply alter their physical limitations though it doesn't change it, it stays so, just internally shielded by ki,

@cull_obsidian: Superman can be killed by bullets as well, so your sentiment make no sense to be honest

@gaoron: ABC logic is not valid, and UIO goku changes nothing as of the already established TV show minus the filler as beerus is confirmed to have UIO as well, and beerus most impressive feat is the shockwaves who effected only the afterlife and a rogue planet, the afterlife is yet smaller by math than that of the biggest planet known in the universe which is 15 times that of jupiter, so Beerus is only a planet buster alongside goku who can't survive Planetary explosions.

bonus information: the author stated that goku was 6 compared to beerus who's 10 which means that when beerus was using 70% compared to goku 100%, the shockwaves power was beerus 58% power and goku 42% of power.

@phantomshepherdmanga: sorry was you agreeing with me ? As your second comment suggested otherwise

The point of that information was to show that Goku is even weaker than a 50% powered up beerus who's only a planet buster at 100%, that Goku is simply a planet buster while not at the same time. a continental + that is

@phantomshepherdmanga: Don't tag me with such troll posts.

@gaoron: ?, so......official facts and statements from the series is a troll post for ya?, and monaka > hit ''ABC Logic'' is not?, what a definition of troll you might have i wonder

There's nothing to suggest they cannot move a planet at this point and nothing to suggest they can except if you scale them to Vados even by 1 percent factor they would easily be able to. MUI Goku is supposed to be above GoDs.

There's also an evidence how Zamasu and Black were able to drag multiple huge planet-sized Super Dragon Balls (off-panel)

In the end, Lifting strength=/=Striking Strength. Striking force is basically your durability, inner strength * acceleration/speed since Force = Mass*Acceleration.

That is why an MMA fighter would always easily beat a Heavyweight Lifter.

Even a normal human would destroy entire Earth being close to light speed thats how Striking works. Lifting is almost irrelevant in a battle.

@phantomshepherdmanga: Beerus is only a planet buster at 100%???

@thedeathstar: not always, in some fiction a striking forces does not mean durability, a character might have a star level durability and yet would still be human level, so no, and vados is said to be superior than whis who is stated to be 50% more powerful than beerus, and UI is simply a technique, whis already explained it in the ROF arc though some fans prefer to remain ignorant about it, it's simply a body self movement technique combined with pregonition, there is no explanation to why Goku hair change to white since the angels and the lords of destructions are stated to have UI, so maybe due to their biology though no one knows for now, the dragons balls could just be BFR to that place, there is no evidence that it is that particular instance of moving it is how it happened beyond speculation, and no, a human would not destroy Earth at light speed, his body would destruct before that, and even somehow if it does not magically, it will only be that of a nuke level, not the planet, and lifting is relevant to strength as it shows the capability of the body if character A can lift 5 ton of weight an character B can lift only 100 KG, then character A is more probable to win in a battle since it would have the advantage of more strength in a hand to hand combat.

you would be surprised at the limit of a planet and what it might be, Yes, beerus at 100% is a planet buster, and technically a star buster, there is context behind this though it would be simpler to state it like this, beerus cannot destroy the top tier planet in the universe as of his feats as of now.

@phantomshepherdmanga: you are trolling and nothing more. Beerus with a tap of his finger destroyed half a planet, with a sneeze another planet and with a tiny Ki attack another planet. In the manga they were destroying planets casually with kicks and punches. And you are going to tell someone that Beerus is only planet buster when at 100% by those feats?

And i don't even consider his star busting feat off-panel, even on of the creators said that GoDs could endeed destroy a universe but not erase it like Zeno and nullified a unvierse theartening Ki construct with ease. What else do you need?

So please, PLEASE stop that lowballing. But as far as i see your posts about DB i am not suprised in any way to see your claim here.

And sure UI is just a technique that somehow explains how Goku can tangle with Jiren who was vastly superior than him before. It didn't boost his stats whatsoever.

Nitpicking and strawmanning is a great way to undermine a fictional work if you don't like it right ;)

@kratosx64x: you seem to follow the path of shoot first and ask later, and how am i trolling exactly?, let me educate you in that feat furthermore, he didn't destroy half of the planet, he destroyed all of the planet canonically, if you mean the planets in his own realm then they are unknown aside from that they are planets, Beerus and champa fighting destroyed multiple planets casually, Nullifying an energy-form is an unknown feat, and the reason i say Beerus is still a planet buster at 100% is because the shockwaves represent beerus total power and they barely affected a star and destroyed just a planet that is not shown to be outside of the solar system and merely a rogue planet, the speed of which those shockwaves can be calculated through the energy acceleration required to destroy such a planet, the timing of which the shockwaves travel from earth to that planet via the screen-time and the destructivity level that it caused earth to that of that planet, it's not that impressive and it would certainly not destroy the universe unless they mean overtime like they did for a million time.

there are levels for planets as you are either a child when i would comprehend then or someone with a very low IQ

......Nitpicking?, if i wanted to nitpick i would post something like when goku stated that he can't withstand the temperature of earth's core that equal that of the sun's surface, and strawmanning?, since when was an argument repositioned?, you asked a question and i answered it, know of what you speak and think about as my IQ dropped because of it. and fictional or not it doesn't matter if something is what it is, then it is what it is,.

there are levels for planets as you are either a child when i would comprehend then or someone with a very low IQ, the top tier planet in the universe is 15 times than that of jupiter in size, the afterlife was effected and it barely is the size of that planet, sneak way par example is 1 million KM and and that it reach the center of that dimension and that's with its twisted not straight lines, the radius of that planet would be estimate to be around 1.5 million to 2 million KM at high estimate, so no, beerus total power which are the shockwaves by the way as a representation of it being unable to destroy it would mean he doesn't have the ability to destroy it in a one shot. and we don't know the level of the star since it was off-screen

......Nitpicking?, if i wanted to nitpick i would post something like when goku stated that he can't withstand the temperature of earth's core that equal that of the sun's surface, and strawmanning?, since when was an argument repositioned?, you asked a question and i answered it, know of what you speak and think about as my IQ dropped because of it. and fictional or not it doesn't matter if something is what it is, then it is what it is,.

all i'm sensing is a triggered fanboy who blocks others when they don't say aye to its fanboyism.

P.S the block thing, i called it.

@phantomshepherdmanga: first of all let all the insulting aside. If we gonna use that kind of way to discuss things np for me. I will answer one last time in a civil manner.

You are the one who isn't well versed in DB as i can see in your post. I never mentioned the shockwaves to begin with. This feat is what you mean when you talk about the planet in his realm and i say fair enough:

But other then that he destroyed half a planet by tapping on a table with his finger:

And another one with a tiny Ki attack:

So you gonna tell me that while Beerus can do these things with relative ease he still is only planetary with 100%?

Next what i love about your argument is that these shockwaves represent 100% of Beerus power. He was lying thoughout the fight about that. Whis even asked him why he lied to Goku.

To answer the other statement of your argument. That is the definition of nitpicking. You are using the side effects of a fight which is not even the full power of either one to lowball the whole thing to "not that impressive" while there are so many different feats who would support the other side of this bs discussion. The feat of nullifying is NOT an unknown feat because it is stated pretty explicitly that it would destroy the universe.

You didn't even consider answering the Beerus/Champa feat at all. Lets not forget that Frieza in his weakest form destroyed a planet with 10x earths gravity with ease or that the same Frieza destroyed earth with a mere Kiai while beaten up badly. The same Frieza who was afraid of Beerus even in his Golden Frieza form.

So please go ahead and tell me how after all that Beerus with 100% of his power is still only a planetary being.

And let me warn you again. If you start to insult again in any given way, the next answer will be pretty harsh aswell.

UI isn't just a technique its a state especially MUI which can even beat Jiren in terms of power even when Jiren knew how to hit it, and Jiren is a being who is above Gods of Destruction.

So even if you scale them 50 percent say less than Angels they will still be able to move planets.

Also your other posts above seems to me like you are trolling. You also don't understand the difference between striking and lifting.

@phantomshepherdmanga: blocked? Dude you are the only one i see here that acts pretty immarturely. First you started to insult me for stating out some points now you are accusing me of blocking you while i flagged a post which had insults directed against me. And even in that post you still couldn't help yourself and had to throw another insult at me. You know that if you continue this way you will get banned sooner or later right?

And before you state things. The biggest known planet is 493,294 km ins radius. Even the sun is not 2 million km in radius.

@kratosx64x: can't comprehend the reason though comicvine responded with a block rather than added, it is now that it is accessible for some reason, bizarre though your word is granted.

the insults were never made as so, only a suggestion to why one might know about this since they are not meant to speak of one person value rather the reason to why a person is absent in a particular manner, The IQ reference as not meant to be general rather specific about the cosmos as one won't be nerdy and keep looking every last discovery about space. and the child suggestion is to why one won't as well as children now a days honestly aren't interested in this stuff

as for the reason to why Beerus is still a planet buster via feat is because: https://www.space.com/18522-super-jupiter-alien-planet-photo.html

super jupiter is 15 times the size of jupiter and apparenlty the upcoming titan: https://weather.com/science/space/news/giant-gas-planet-rings-jupiter-discovery-eclipse which might be 50 times the size of jupiter, and for the love of anime christ, those planets size are getting ridiuclous,

@kratosx64x: Beerus is planet buster only. No feats to back it up any further.

@kratosx64xGokuAndSuperman Holy balls, there was no block, comic-vine get your crap together.

then, to clear some few things, the child and Low IQ thing was not an insult, it was merely comprehensibility scenario, as a child or someone with a low IQ would not get nerdy about such stuff, and when i say IQ, i don't mean the general one, christ no, i mean specifically IQ about cosmos of RL. with that out.

now, to the main topic, i already mentioned all of beerus canonical feats including the off-screen reference to the star, even so, beerus was stated in the manga to have destroyed multiple stars by whis. the issue here is that it happens off-screen which demises the details regarding the feat.

as for the shockwaves and the reason i mentioned them, pretty simple, it is rather a common misconception that DB fans think SSGSS is more powerful than SSG when it's the other way around, why so you may say?, well because SSG takes the energies of 6 super saiyans and multiply it by 50 and transferred it to one saiyan which then becomes God ki, that's more than 50 x God-like Base-form, with that out, it was stated by the author stated goku was six compared to beerus who was 10, knowing that beerus was using 70% of his total power vs 100% of Goku God-like power, then this means goku only matched 42% of beerus power, and since beerus concealed the shockwave Singularity which was the combination of beerus/goku power, it means beerus had to at least use 84% of his power to nullify it, which makes sense since at one point they show/state beerus as using 100% of power

the shockwaves as a feat are the most impressive to come out of beerus, it is his feat not goku, and i just clarified in a logical way why that is, however, when you consider the mechanism behind the shockwaves they become....what's the term?, a wolf in a sheep's cloth would be a nice one, as the shockwaves get more powerful the farther they travel from their origin point, and when you calculate the timing which is 1 minute and half to accelerate the energy to the point enough to destruct what seems as a rogue planet or rather a planet from another solar system and an asteroid belt that is likely from our solar system, literally, that planet looks solid and had a fair atmosphere before being destroyed so let's assume it's an earth like planet, the energy requirement would be 225 nonillion J, meaning that for each second. there is an energy acceleration of 1.875.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 of Joule which we know is not true since this energy would be enough to while not destruction, break the planet apart, the shockwaves are only shown to cause minor damages near earth

and even then, it will take more than that level of energy acceleration to destroy the whole universe.

@kratosx64x: so......i just read your post again to make sure to comprehend what you meant and i happened to found the word: i flagged you. which would explain why i couldn't respond and thought it was a block......would you like to clarify or are you gonna say that it wasn't you?

@phantomshepherdmanga: First of all even when you say mindr*pe here it is considered language and it will get a warning. Second even with this context it is an insult with furhter expanding upon by saying "my IQ dropped when i read through it" and after that going with the "fanboy". None of those are acceptable ways of adressing someone. But for the sake of being civil here i will accept that if you watch your tone in the discussion from this point onwards. I flagged your post because it had insults thrown at me (which is a normal thing to do here) but blocking is out of question. I would never block someone for some insults thrown but it is everyones duty to flag insults or troll accounts to keep it civil and in-rules here.

Now i cut to the rest. First and foremost the shockwaves are not indication for Beerus full power because:

1. We don't know how much power he was using against SSG Goku. You are refering to the movie version which was retconned later on because in every scenario a more serious Beerus stomped everyone from earth.

2. It was a side effect of a fist clash. Nothing to suggest what the main potency was or how much DC would be behind a Ki based attack.

Other than that i showed you 2 instances were Beerus destroyed a planet pretty casually. So by your logical conclusion someone who can destroy half a planet with a tap of his finger and a whole planet with a tiny Ki blast is still not above planetary with full power. Which i would call false in every aspect of it. Just think about the difference of strength between a tap and an all out attack by human standards. The gap in effort and strength is huge and we are talking about beings who have massive power gaps when utilising Ki on their attacks. Beerus was not even powered up at that point and even against a SSJ2 Vegeta (which at that point was stronger than a SSJ3 Goku) he was using 10% of his power (which could also be a lie). I would like to point out that Beerus power gap in his precentages is huge. It is not a linear grow like with the others but more of a exponential grow. The higher his overall usage of his power is the higher the difference in his own power becomes.

What Whis stated is an off-panel feat and it is considered as a feat here in CV. So even without all that shown on-panel he still has the off-panel feat speaking for him being above planet level.

And still without everything mentioned above he has to statements directly from a director and the author which has more weight when it comes to these characters then everything we are talking about. First of all a director of DBS said that Zeno is the only one that could erase the universe but GoDs could destroy the universe. This don't contradict anyhting which was stated in the anime and manga aswell. Everytime Beerus is in a more serious situation the universe is in danger. And then you have the words of Akira Toriyama himself who stated that Beerus was strong enough to destroy the kaioshin realm (which is as big as 1/10th of the mortal universe) while he was much weaker. So with all said and done you have a lot more to back up that he is at the very least star level and realisticly that he is something between multi-galaxy to universe level.

And no SSG is not stronger than SSB. SSB is always presented as "a Super Saiyan which surpassed the SSG". And in every fight SSB is used AFTER SSG. It wouldn't make any sense for Goku to use SSB as a powerup after SSG if SSG would be the superior transformation.

PS: i couldn't find the tweet of the director maybe someone else can help out with that. Everything else i can give you links to if needed.

@kratosx64x: quite the interesting information you got there, so. i'm going to separate this into 3 catogories, the film, the TV show, and the comics,

i dare not even include the TV show

it seems the film is canon to the comic as it is an adaptation of it, though it has some minor changes in the story: Goku SSG doesn't vanish till the end of the battle, . . . .that's it,

considering the statement was stated while goku was in SSG mode, there is no reason to not include it as well, with that out, i noticed there is a difference between the shockwaves in the comics, and The TV show, in the comics the shockwave happen in Earth, and it's an Impact as said by Elder kai.

so for the sake of argument i'm not gonna include Toei TV show since that would be out of place, so there is no retcon except for maybe the TV show.

and of course SSG is superior than SSGSS, SSG has higher multiplier, it would make no sense to use an inferior one?, that would be like saying SS1 is better than SS3, strange and amusing though just no.

bizarre, i'm sure i stated that for one to truly be a star buster it would have to be above all planetary levels including that planet, though you have a point, though what just don't know the level of that star, it might be inferior or superior and there is information about it