If technically he can sense danger before it occurs, then shouldn't that allow him to be one of the best H2H fighters in Marvel and if so, then who is/are his closest match-ups?

H2H as in heart to heart?

@ursaber: Hand to Hand >,> but focusing more on his fighting technique than super strength.

He should be. He's had years of self taught experience, was taught by Captain America and trained by Schang Chi and Madame Webb in master martial arts to the point where he developed an almost unbeatable and original martial art in the form of the Way of the Spider. That combined with his Spider Sense would make him into the greatest fighter in Marvel.

In an AU, Spider Man is an assassin working with Wolverine and his Spider Sense is so advanced that he can perfectly predict his enemies moves. It makes him unbeatable.

The problem is that while he's a great fighter, Spider Man never intentionally wants to attack. Instead of fighting with his fists or aiming to hurt his opponent he holds back significantly and prefers to use his webbing to neutralize. If he became a little more ruthless he could very well defeat all his opponents really quick and with little effort. Spider Man is normally strong and he's holding back but when he let's loose only a truly powerful being like Hulk or Thor can stop him.

Well yes, but there are also very skilled fighters out there with similar abilities and many years of experience such as Taskmaster and Gorgon, don't they pose a great challenge to him for the title of "the greatest fighter in Marvel"?

Right now, Spider Man is not the greatest fighter in Marvel. That title goes to either Daredevil or Black Panther. What Spider Man has is the POTENTIAL to become the greatest fighter. Aside from his martial arts mastery he has his spider strength, speed, agility and durability couple with his spider sense. That is a recipe and combination for being undefeated.

When properly written he is almost unbeatable, but he's been pissed on for more than a decade. That's the problem with constantly trying to stunt him for the films and for kids. He used to be a heavy hitter; now people have to have these discussions about his power levels.

Rant. Over.

I remember Spider-Man had issues with NightCrawler. Though some street heroes have been able to go toe to toe with Parker pretty well.

Nowadays Spider Man can be matched and beaten pretty commonly, but back in the day Daredevil and all those guys with similar power levels but greater fighting abilities couldn't so much as touch him. Daredevil himself claimed that his Radar Sense was stronger than Spider Sense and that he could detect and perceive Spider Man's attacks but Spider Man was so fast and strong that he couldn't defend himself.

@ursaber: I don't remember that, but there was an instance were Parkers Spider Sense couldn't detect NightCrawler when he appeared right next to him to attack. Let me look for that scan give me a minute.

@stormphoenix:

@ursaber: Never mind I was wrong Spider-Man's senses was able to detect NightCrawler.

As much as the plot wants him to be, Parker is a very static character when it comes to actual combat skills, he's just simply runs on plot magic when writers need him to struggle in any fight like against Cap, Daredevil etc same for his high ends it's most likely the Popeye effect when Spider-Man gets into a battle with Hulk level enemies he can hold his own and win taking his superpowers into high effect randomly when plot needs him to demonstrate how awesome and cool he is when he's in a hopeless scenario beyond his limits.

Same with Cap and Wolverine. These three are the big trfecta of PIS outliers. But Peter has never been a action type hero who's main concept is being a powerful force and displaying feats for nerds, his thing is surpressing and mitigating conflict with his wits and smarts with super powers, so thats why he is all over the place with how he fares against any opponent, he won't be consistent because he's mostly drama based soap opera type that fights crime, the point of his battles is thematic messages of great responsibility and being a mature man.

@Jimishim12, @Viral4334, @TrustNoOne22

STOP BEING A TROLL towards a character you have no idea about. You once admitted to not having read much Spider-Man, which is why your opinions don't make sense.

He got even better at HtH after Shang Chi trained him in Spider Fu.

he also stated that he hired ninjas in the first issue of all new spidey.

@magnetic_eye said:

@Jimishim12, @Viral4334, @TrustNoOne22

STOP BEING A TROLL towards a character you have no idea about. You once admitted to not having read much Spider-Man, which is why your opinions don't make sense.

What is your deal dude?

He isnt really skilled in h2h.

low-mid street level heroes can keep up with him (morals on)

He relies more on his strength, speed and senses.

@ursaber: "Greatest fighter in Marvel? What about Black Panther who's fighting skills are extraordinary. What about Taskmaster who can copy anyone's(except Deadpool)moves? or Gorgon or Black Widow?

I agree Spider-man is a great fighter but he is certainly not the greatest.

I never said that. I said that he has the potential to become the greatest fighter in Marvel but his potential is never explored and his writers keep holding him back. Black Panther, Shang Chi, Daredevil, Black Widow, Captain America are all superior fighters than Spider Man.

These are my previous posts stating specifically what I said previously.

This.

Spidey has extremely high physical aptitude in relation to normal humans. The fact is that no baseline human, no matter how fit and well trained, in however many martial arts, should be able to contend with him in purely H2H combat. Only someone with similar physical stats should.

Of course this is the comics and it all depends upon what a particular writer wants so I acknowledge whatever happens. I'd rant forever otherwise and I'd rather just be happy.

@mimisalome said:

Pretty low...

Too many openings... at least thats what a typical martial artist would say against an amateur fighter.

Why this doesn't matter for baseline martial arts masters in relation to Spider-Man is explained above. They still should not be able to beat him in a straight hand to hand fight. The problem is that martial arts training in fiction has always been seen as some magic pill for the...I don't wanna say weak because most comic character's are monsters(even the normals) so I'll go with the not as strong....when it's really just a difference maker between those in the same physical bracket or tier.

Look at it this way. People that train in martial arts are already stronger and fitter than anybody they engage that doesn't. The truth is that more often that not Batman is just a human beast that brute force ko's couch potatoes with guns. Aside from just being efficient, he's faster, he's stronger, more willing and equipped to take a blow. However his skills really kick in when he fights his physical strength/agility equals. That's where his martial arts makes the difference. Same goes for other peak humans like T'challa etc.

There comes a point or threshold, however, when the difference in physical aptitude is just too high, that martial arts skill begins to lose relevance as physical difference scales. When you take all other factors away and just stick to H2H, an ant's martial arts makes zero difference against a mouse...even if it knows 127 different styles. A mouse's martial arts makes no difference against a man...even if the mouse knows 127 different styles.

Look at any baseline super martial artist (e.g. DD or Batz) vs Spiderman in pure H2H combat. Just based on a few random criteria:

Dodging

Avoiding damage from Spider-Man's speed is a tall order for any well trained human. If he wants to hit them he's going to hit them and there is no way outside of them going beyond a peak human feat that they tag him with him being aware. His movement speed and response time is one of the things he's renowned for. He doesn't even need foresight, this is a guy with bullet timing and he can sure as hell react on a per-action basis and get away fine against any martial artist.

Striking

Blocking a full-on Spidey strike assault is just not going to happen without broken bones. Spidey has been tapping he's opponents lightly for years because Peter's just not that guy. Anybody with Class 10 strength to lift up to 10 tonnes can destroy any bones and tissue with little effort.

• Strike to head? Fractured/shattered skull.
• Strike to torso? Punctured ribs and ruptured organs
• Block with limbs. Lmao if you can easily find a video on youtube of kick-boxers and mma guys like Anderson Silva snapping their limbs from strikes against another man's then it a guarantee that blocking a strike and remaining in good shape is just off the table.

Just ask Mac Gargan what a real punch from Spidey is like.

Spidey also has higher durability than normal even if it's not nearly as notable as many others. He can't hold such heavy things without having the stronger muscles and bone to support those weights and he's taken some good licks from other strongman characters like Hulk. KO'ing him with only H2H with this in mind is another tall order.

Grappling

There is no grapple in the world that is going to allow a baseline to subdue Spider-Man. No rear choke hold, no arm bar, no nothing. This is a person that can lift ten tonnes. If you're not in that category or higher then just forget it.

That should be enough to show that in H2H it all depends on who is fighting him but most, if not all street levelers have no chance. If it's not a superhuman then forget it. Now before going any further all comic book characters have talents and scenarios that favour them. This was not to say they can't whoop the living daylights out of Spider-Man or beat him fairly because with the totality of their talents and resource they can definitely defeat him and vice versa. This is just to answer the can they do it with purely H2H scenario to which the answer is absolutely no, they should not be able to because the difference in physical aptitude. Artistic license (pronounced "in-con-sis-ten-cy") is the only thing that can make it so.

The problem is that while he's a great fighter, Spider Man never intentionally wants to attack. Instead of fighting with his fists or aiming to hurt his opponent he holds back significantly and prefers to use his webbing to neutralize. If he became a little more ruthless he could very well defeat all his opponents really quick and with little effort. Spider Man is normally strong and he's holding back but when he let's loose only a truly powerful being like Hulk or Thor can stop him.

^^^^^^^^^^^ This

Peter is reflexive and reactionary, so based on that he's not even better than Batroc because he doesn't aim to fight, it's his powers that make him overcome offenses.