Yoda vs General Greivous spoilers

From Yoda #7, scans in spoiler block:

So Yoda clearly dominated. But it wasn't a curb stomp. Maybe the gap between ROTS Obi and Yoda is smaller than we thought after we all.

About how I was expecting it to go. Grievous did a lot better than I thought, especially only using just one saber, but it doesn't really feel like Yoda was all that pressured or anything.

@a_fine_edition:

Yoda also completely froze him in place:

I like how Grievous thought he actually had a chance against Yoda lol

@frozen: His opening attack against Yoda also looks similar to what he used on Depa Billaba:

Hell, it honestly kinda looks like they just traced it.

The art looks really good

I don't get why they did this, Yoda could have easily just defeated Grievous here and frankly put a stop to the whole war far earlier....honestly, doing this just causes issues narratively.

That‘s the Star Wars MO, though. If what they do doesn’t cause narrative issues, then it’s cut.

He probably only did so well because Yoda doesn't really seem like he was taking Grievous seriously during the fight. GG was getting trolled by the muppet throughout after he bragged about how Dooku is the one who taught him.

So did Grievous get low diff or negged or mid diff in Sabers?

This is straight up ridiculous. Grievous have no business holding his own in sabers against the likes of Yoda, or even doing well enough to not get really injured or pushed on the defensive the whole fight. Yoda should have at least seriously injured him or something. This is straight up BS.

The worst part is that they actually make Yoda use the force and still Grievous is not stomped or out of the fight...somehow.

This comic just pushed the final nail on the coffin about scaling in canon making no sense anymore.

Either that or you have to accept that somehow Grievous was close to Dooku in sabers all along.

This make no sense. Yoda could have made a serious step toward ending the war right here and there by killing Grievous. But he somehow think that playing around is a good option...for reasons.

Well, I guess any future interactions in canon with characters who never fought each other for now will be like this. Always an excuse to justify the fact that one of the character is not dead. Disney for ya.

Then, this version of Grievous is stronger than Kit Fisto and Ventress?

Low-diffed and clowned on before getting his weapon stolen by Kermit as a middle finger.

@frozen: Considering this is Yoda, Grievous did pretty good.

@herculean:

This make no sense. Yoda could have made a serious step toward ending the war right here and there by killing Grievous. But he somehow think that playing around is a good option...for reasons.

Well, I guess any future interactions in canon with characters who never fought each other for now will be like this. Always an excuse to justify the fact that one of the character is not dead. Disney for ya.

He wasn't there to stop Grievous. Their main objective was to bring down the droid factory or something. And it's not like Yoda hasn't shown to be rather merciful to people on the other side of the war. Look at his interaction with Ventress for example. Even during RoTS, Kenobi was chosen by the Council to capture Grievous alive.

Yoda decided that it was more important to humiliate Grievous first when he started to being Dooku up and brag about how he was taught by Yoda's own student. And that was until reinforcements arrived and it was time for him to go and return to Anakin and the rest so they could escape. Granted, that isn't to say there isn't some bad writing there. And I do agree that current Disney SW just makes excuses so certain characters don't get killed when they meet other relevant characters.

But this isn't the worst offender. I'd like to direct you to Palpatine & Vader vs Knights of Ren:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/hidden-empire-5-palpatine-one-shots-knights-of-ren-2299547/

Where Sheev, for some reason, decides to not kill all of those useless fodder because Plot demands it.

Oh god. The wank starts for no reason again. This fight is no different than Vader vs Ren. Grevious literally did nothing in this fight - failed to overpowerer, got statued with Yoda creating after images around him, got tagged in the head and got his weapon stolen mid fight. GG got completely no diffed here, any opnion otherwise is straight copium.

i think i’m almost done doing canon debates. a bunch of you add unconfirmed context to make the scaling make sense but as canon material keeps being published it makes less and less sense. this is sad and unfortunate. i know yoda wasn’t losing, but grevious was literally using 1 lightsaber and keeping up. this shit is crazy.

@cryolancer47:

He wasn't there to stop Grievous. Their main objective was to bring down the droid factory or something. And it's not like Yoda hasn't shown to be rather merciful to people on the other side of the war. Look at his interaction with Ventress for example. Even during RoTS, Kenobi was chosen by the Council to capture Grievous alive.

To be fair against Ventress Yoda just literally casually force-crushed her, she was factually powerless. Of course, the fact that he did not just ragdolled her and restrained her with the force is due to plot. But in this instance Yoda already stomped Ventress instantly and asked her to surrender, then the plot made it so that by not knocking her out or restraining her with the force she had a very convenient way of escape via the explosives.

Here with Grievous the situation is vastly different, they are in a battlefield and as you said yourself with the pressure of having tactical objectives. I argue that Yoda have every reason to force slam Grievous instantly and knock him out. (If he does not want to kill for some reason) or simply throunce him in the sabers. The fact that Grievous is fighting with one saber (massive hinderance) and is actually doing well for himself make me really question myself about the writers team IQ.

They should have showed Grievous being totally powerless and finished when Yoda choose to use force freeze instead of him being confident about Yoda not being able to do that a second time. (Why Yoda even stopped in the first place is wonders lmao)

Yoda decided that it was more important to humiliate Grievous first when he started to being Dooku up and brag about how he was taught by Yoda's own student. And that was until reinforcements arrived and it was time for him to go and return to Anakin and the rest so they could escape.

With Dooku he had emotional excuses to not kill him when they fought (he was like a son to him) with Ventress he actually was about to capture her but plot saved her. Maybe I am a bit picky but I feel like this instance is just absurd writting, all over the place, Grievous using only one saber, Yoda not stomping with the force etc.

Granted, that isn't to say there isn't some bad writing there. And I do agree that current Disney SW just makes excuses so certain characters don't get killed when they meet other relevant characters.

Glad you do so. Too many people make too many excuses for Star Wars canon those days imo.

Where Sheev, for some reason, decides to not kill all of those useless fodder because Plot demands it.

Lmao. This is not even close to be the most stupid instance of Disney retardation. The Knights of Ren managed to survive a fight with Vader and Ren won a force tug of war against him (albeit by cheating via the help of his foddergoons) when they literally got by force in his personal fortress to steal something belonging to him and Vader was explicitly not pleased at all about it. Plot armor all over the place. Do note that Fodderen managed to last seconds against Vader on his own in the tug of war before the rest of foddeknights helped.

@cryolancer47: I feel like stopping the leader of the entire CIS and putting an end to the war, would be far more important than some mere factory. It's not like Yoda couldn't have done both, but I guess this kind of writing isn't new.

@herculean:

Here with Grievous the situation is vastly different, they are in a battlefield and as you said yourself with the pressure of having tactical objectives. I argue that Yoda have every reason to force slam Grievous instantly and knock him out. (If he does not want to kill for some reason) or simply throunce him in the sabers.

For the first point about slamming him with the Force. He already did that:

But it was mainly done to showcase the cocky Grievous that they're nowhere near each other. And that, just because he wields the weapon of a Jedi, it doesn't make him as strong as one.

And the reason he doesn't instantly stomp him in Sabers is because Yoda decided to instead humble Grievous (Thanks to some PIS) in a fight due to his bragging about Dooku's teachings. Grievous didn't do well because of his own capabilities there. It's because Yoda, just like in Sheev Vs Maul/Savage, decided to troll his opponent first.

They should have showed Grievous being totally powerless and finished when Yoda choose to use force freeze instead of him being confident about Yoda not being able to do that a second time. (Why Yoda even stopped in the first place is wonders lmao)

He was trying to teach Grievous a lesson + Sprinkle some bad writing on that cake.

With Dooku he had emotional excuses to not kill him when they fought (he was like a son to him) with Ventress he actually was about to capture her but plot saved her. Maybe I am a bit picky but I feel like this instance is just absurd writting, all over the place, Grievous using only one saber, Yoda not stomping with the force etc.

Yeah, there's definitely bad writing for why Yoda doesn't instantly stomp Grievous. But there's also a reasonable explanation when we look at the dialogue during the fight.

Glad you do so. Too many people make too many excuses for Star Wars canon those days imo.

Yeah, Disney Canon has too many terrible moment riddled with bad writing, that I can't bring myself to defend.

Lmao. This is not even close to be the most stupid instance of Disney retardation. The Knights of Ren managed to survive a fight with Vader and Ren won a force tug of war against him (albeit by cheating via the help of his foddergoons) when they literally got by force in his personal fortress to steal something belonging to him and Vader was explicitly not pleased at all about it. Plot armor all over the place. Do note that Fodderen managed to last seconds against Vader on his own in the tug of war before the rest of foddeknights helped.

It's actually even worse when you remember how Ren needed help from all of his fodders, just to move some lava. Which was done with maximum effort:

All of whom have repeatedly been confirmed to have trash connection and command of the Force, no less. With even the best one there, Vikrul, having a stunted connection to it.

@wolfrazer: Yeah, bad writing exists in a lot of D-Canon works. You'd think Yoda would kill Grievous, one of the main antagonists in the war, while Anakin and the others handle the factory business. But this match-up was always bound to have some PIS/CIS involved to explain why Grievous isn't a pile of junk in a matter of seconds. If Yoda was written by someone competent that didn't care about continuity, GG would've gotten clownstomped whether in Sabers or Force. But they have to keep him alive up to RoTS/his fight in Utapau with Kenobi. So that's why you have Yoda casually trolling him before taking his Saber and leaving instead of killing the guy.

@cryolancer47:

For the first point about slamming him with the Force. He already did that:

I know. I meant that he did not force slam which resulted in a direct K.O or at least a severely stunned Grievous. Hell, both Eeth Koth and Kenobi got better results when they force pushed/slammed Grievous. He was not even disarmed here. But if you hold to the stance that Yoda was massively holding back to ridiculize him, it can make sense I guess. (Though still PIS as we agreed. Massive PIS I argue)

But it was mainly done to showcase the cocky Grievous that they're nowhere near each other. And that, just because he wields the weapon of a Jedi, it doesn't make him as strong as one.

And the reason he doesn't instantly stomp him in Sabers is because Yoda decided to instead humble Grievous (Thanks to some PIS) in a fight due to his bragging about Dooku's teachings. Grievous didn't do well because of his own capabilities there. It's because Yoda, just like in Sheev Vs Maul/Savage, decided to troll his opponent first.

He was trying to teach Grievous a lesson + Sprinkle some bad writing on that cake.

Yeah, there's definitely bad writing for why Yoda doesn't instantly stomp Grievous. But there's also a reasonable explanation when we look at the dialogue during the fight.

The problem is that as forth mentionned by @wolfrazer it would be far more logical and beneficial in all aspects to beat Grievous and basically pretty much jump toward winning the war (or get close to it) than some mere factory or teaching Grievous cocky-ass a lesson of humility. Moreover if Yoda wanted to seek humiliation he could have just disarmed Grievous instantly in sabers combat and force him to pick it up as opposed to actually make it seems that Grievous was a somewhat worthy duelist to him. Yoda is a man Gremlins male who care deeply about the suffering of people and the useless killing of Jedi fellows, killing or at least crippling the guy who killed the most Jedi on his own in the recent history of Jedi killing (with the exception of Vader) seems to be what Yoda would do in character lol.

But ultimately I feel like we are more or less in a common ground here. We agree that PIS was a massive play here, the point of contention is about how much it was PIS lol.

It's actually even worse when you remember how Ren needed help from all of his fodders, just to move some lava. Which was done with maximum effort:

All of whom have repeatedly been confirmed to have trash connection and command of the Force, no less. With even the best one there, Vikrul, having a stunted connection to it.

Even more than that, the KOR all together (with the exception of Ren as he was dead) were not able to stomps a disarmed Ben solo in a six against one fight. In fact during the fight only two of them managed to do anything with the force which was a pathetic force-push.

Ultimately we are going to reach a point in which so-call PIS and low-showings in SW canon are going to be the norm. Mark my words.

@herculean:

I know. I meant that he did not force slam which resulted in a direct K.O or at least a severely stunned Grievous. Hell, both Eeth Koth and Kenobi got better results when they force pushed/slammed Grievous. He was not even disarmed here. But if you hold to the stance that Yoda was massively holding back to ridiculize him, it can make sense I guess. (Though still PIS as we agreed. Massive PIS I argue)

Yeah, it's a massive PIS for why Yoda doesn't instantly clap this four-armed coughing machine. But him not instantly KO'ing does have an explanation/context. Regardless of how crappy it is.

The problem is that as forth mentionned by @wolfrazer it would be far more logical and beneficial in all aspects to beat Grievous and basically pretty much jump toward winning the war (or get close to it) than some mere factory or teaching Grievous cocky-ass a lesson of humility. Moreover if Yoda wanted to seek humiliation he could have just disarmed Grievous instantly in sabers combat and force him to pick it up as opposed to actually make it seems that Grievous was a somewhat worthy duelist to him. Yoda is a man Gremlins male who care deeply about the suffering of people and the useless killing of Jedi fellows, killing or at least crippling the guy who killed the most Jedi on his own in the recent history of Jedi killing (with the exception of Vader maybe) seems to be what Yoda would do in character lol.

But ultimately I feel like we are more or less in a common ground here. We agree that PIS was a massive play here, the point of contention is about how much it was PIS lol.

I did respond to Wolf in that regard. The fight is bound to have some PIS/CIS for why Grievous isn't instantly killed. Since they need him alive for RoTS. Which is why you get Yoda prioritizing teaching Grievous a lesson, instead of instantly killing him for all the Jedi he murdered in cold blood before taking their Lightsabers as some sort of trophies.

Although, the way of humiliating Grievous you brought up is definitely far better than what Yoda did in the comic.

Even more than that, the KOR all together (with the exception of Ren as he was dead) were not able to stomps a disarmed Ben solo in a six against one fight. In fact during the fight only two of them managed to do anything with the force which was a pathetic force-push.

Pretty sure they were beating his ass before he got the Lightsaber from his waifu.

Ultimately we are going to reach a point in which so-call PIS and low-showings in SW canon are going to be the norm. Mark my words.

Dread it, run from it, bad writing arrives all the same.

Yeah, I'll keep that in mind.

@herculean:

Ultimately we are going to reach a point in which so-call PIS and low-showings in SW canon are going to be the norm. Mark my words.

To be fair, while such stuff does occur, good feats also regularly occur to balance things out. For example, survivor seems to have plenty of them( which tbh, I did not expect would be case). And honestly, while I agree with you that there has been quite bit of bad writing in Disney SW, that stuff also occurs in lot of other verses. Issue seems to be pretty common these days.

Star Wars always had massive amounts of plot armor, way before Disney stepped in. It's just something you need to get used to. What irritates me tho is that Disney lets important characters live through the most blatant PIS only to kill them off later in the most anticlimactic fashion.

Maul is the perfect example. He survived/escaped more times than I can count in TCW. And for what? To have a couple seconds appearance in Solo and die to Kenobi in a sub-par Rebels episode where Maul wasn't even the damn focus because why would we want to follow him through out the episode, watching Ezra getting lost in a desert for most of the episode is more important apperantly.

Ventress is another one, died in some novel 99.9% of fanbase won't ever read. Like Disney is so scared of killing off characters only to do just that in some inferior fashion later on. I really hope they touch upon and adapt Dark Disciple soon because it annoys me to no end.

@eredin12: @cryolancer47: @gaoron:

Tbh while GG did use one saber, after re reading I think Yoda clapped. He force froze him and was very casually clowning on him.

In fact force gap between ROTS Kenobi and Yoda tier is larger because Yoda force froze. Also it begs to question why Vader did not force freeze Karbin.

@frozen: yoda clapping against a grievous that’s using 1/4th of his maximum combat effectiveness is actually embarrassing for yoda. he should’ve one-two shot realistically.

Yoda seems to be toying though. He is very casually dancing around him and saying he will teach him a lesson. Example he completely freezes him in place with the force, but then stops for some reason. There's no way GG broke out of a force freeze, because he doesn't have the force.

@frozen: but that is unconfirmed and therefore impossible to say. considering how dangerous grievous is (politically and physically in regards to the war) there is no reason yoda would be holding back.

Well he does say "for a lesson for another time perhaps". He is basically treating him like an amateur that he is schooling. Although you could try and say that GG contended, it would mean the gap between Utapa Obi and Yoda is smaller than we thought in sabers.

But Yoda completely freezing GG in place is probably the most OP display of force freeze in battle.

@frozen: ahsoka also contended with grievous as a padawan and broke his guard with a force push. it just ruins scaling even further. nothing makes sense anymore

@cryolancer47:

Fair enough for the debate. Just one clarification.

Pretty sure they were beating his ass before he got the Lightsaber from his waifu.

I think what I meant may have come accros you the wrong way (maybe my fault IDK), so I will clarify. My point is that they were not able to stomps him (in the sense jumping and killing him in seconds) despite being six vs one and him having no lightsaber. Ben Solo being at best comparable to TPM Kenobi in skills(and even this is a reach) should tell you everything you have to know about knightfodder. I think a single strong Inquisitor could solo all of them minus if Ren himself is there. They were not able to ragdoll him with the force despite being many against one unarmed dude or even kill him despite the insulting amount of time they got. Sure he was losing pretty hard, but the fact that he survived and managed to land force pushes against them make everyone in this scene seems like a joke.

I remember back when Legends Mace Windu one-shotted Grievous and gave him his smoker's cough.

imagine if grievous had the force

:)

Grievous taking another L as usual.

How was this guy ever a threat to Obi-Wan?

I fear some of you guys are coping.. it was a decent fight. Is what it is.

The level of cope and mental games that some people do here is bizarre, everyone who read the comic seems to have perfectly understand how the fight went but on ComicVine seems that is a rule to be over-specific with small details over the narrative and always jump to strange conclusions instead of the original intent which surely it was to look like a smartass, how Grievous getting humilliated by Yoda is now a proof of Grievous being capable of contending with him or an anti-feat of Yoda? Is like twisting the source material with nosense and leaving the actual real context on the trash.

Yoda had no need of instantly stomp Grievous like If this were a video-game nor he was interested in going for the kill which is not even an out of character behaviour for Yoda, and he was not even of the offensive in the first place during the entire battle. The whole fight is Grievous jumping two times over Yoda who in response simply got satisfied with embarassing Grievous performance every time he attempts to kill him, he was schooling him for claiming he has taken his lesson from Dooku well and learned everything about Jedi arts, punishing him due his overconfidence and thinking he was "small", had he wanted to kill him he would have chopped his head off instead of mocking him by slighty cutting his head to annoy him or force crushed him when he freezed Grievous instead of slam him against a wall, it just proved how Yoda was in control and barely saw Grievous as a threat easily exploiting the flaws in the defense of Grievous every time he attacked. When the droids appeared Yoda was surely about to put Grievious on the floor once more and even when he left Yoda got the nerve to mock Grievous even more by easily stealing his lightsaber with the force proving he could have done it from the start and telling him that next time he will teach him "another lesson" when he refutes the statement of Grievous that he had Yoda against the wall, which implies that Yoda was not even taking him seriously the whole time which was left implicity clear.

Why Yoda did not just kill him? This already happened before, short answer is plot, the longer, Yoda did basically the same by no kidnapping Ventress when she had her or Obi-Wan by not allowing Grievous to die on a ship about to explode when he had the chance even If it was a better outcome than the alternative, or Anakin and Obi-Wan not trying to kill Dooku when the whole hostage negotiations failed. This was the eairly stages of the war and Yoda saw Grievous as nothing more than an angry cyborg playing with lightsabers that he is not interested to kill due the darkside and because he might seem him more valuable to capture him alive but would have been problematic in a enemy ship, and was mainly focused at bringing the information of The Separatist super-weapon to Anakin quickly before it causes a genocide so Grievous was not his objetice, stupid or no. So Grievous basically fought against a holding back Yoda that was definitely not interesting in going for the kill and fight back and still got pretty much owned, so this not represents any change in the scaling at all, Grievous still can held his own to a limit and lose against tier 8 opponents, and the tier 9 would win with barely feeling they were being contested which it happened, impressive that this has to be explained at all to CV users.