Why can Zeno see Goku vs Jiren although he was unable to see Dyspo ?

Zeno is able to witness Goku's fight with Jiren without his Godpad. But he was unable to keep up with dyspo even through the use of Godpad.

Does this mean that Dyspo is much faster than MUI Goku and Jiren ? Or is it just bad writing ?

Bad writing, which isn’t surprising as mostly every episode of Super is poorly written.

Or maybe he wasn't shown using the godpad. They don't have to show him using the godpad every time.

@elderelijah190: actuelly they do if that is the only way he cn perceive things it would clear confusion like this.

Dyspo is faster than them

bad writing or maybe off panel he learned the ki sense thing Piccolo taught Gohan during the Saiyan Saga.

@jashugan: Don't be idiot bro.

Well Zeno already was satisfied with seeing movements GodPad couldn't. Maybe the explosions satisfied him. So there's that.

Writing.

Dyspo is faster.

When Goku moves in UI, he doesn't just disappear like Dyspo, he moves to a location and then only moves when he needs to. In a sense, when we are seeing Goku's arms hanging down and vibrating, but we know he is punching upward to Jiren, that is the same thing Zeno is seeing.

This is very similar to back in Dragon Ball Z with Vegito blocking Super Buu's attacks, but looking like he was floating perfectly still from Mr. Satan's perspective.

Dyspo couldn't even keep up with UI's movements, why would people say he is faster? That's absurd. Even Golden Frieza managed to block 90% of the hits Dyspo landed on him.

Yep, bad writing, they could've made Dyspo seem just as impressive by given statements from the GoDs, that they're having trouble to track him or something like that

Inconsistencies, and Bad writing.

@jashugan: No,Jiren is better than Dyspo in absolute everything and MUI is clowning on him...

Dyspo can't hold a candle to what has been shown the last episode...

Dyspo speed-wise is above Goku/Jiren, no other way around it.

That was pre-Dyspo before he used his super speed mode

becasue Dypso is LS and that's faster than MUI Goku.

@thebeardofzues: No,stop this bullshit

Golden Frieza was keeping with Super Dyspo for a brief moment,also Dyspo is not LS,he is FTL

MUI is overkill

@LeonardoTMNT It was never stated that Dyspo is faster than Jiren,only that his speed is way greater than his other abilites,just like how Hit was hyped because of his hax but he wasn't physically that strong...

@elhermanossj5:

No, it was stated that he as LS, and GF was not able to keep up, he had too trap him for Gohan.

Stop the wank.

@thebeardofzues: He was stated that he surpassed the LS through repeated battles.

Stop using your head canon to low ball

Learn to read---it clearly says SURPASSED

And if Dyspo was hundreds of times faster than Frieza he would kick him out of the stage before Frieza blinked

But clearly Frieza could hold Dyspo till Gohan comes

MUI is like thousands of times faster than Frieza

He was so fast that his arms seemed like they didn't even move when he was attacking Jiren...

It must mean Dyspo is faster than Jiren and Goku.

nah jk

@elhermanossj5:

Cool he's slightly faster than Light and Zeno couldn't track him, Zeno can track MUI Goku meaning he's not FTL.

your head canon wank is annoying.

@thebeardofzues: And they were also super suppressed, especially Jiren. In the manga, Dyspo is totally surprised Jiren could fly that fast, the manga and the anime are not the same, but the basic stuff are the same, so obviously Jiren is faster then Dyspo. Frieza managed to block Dyspo's SML Mode. You know it too, you can't possibly believe Dyspo is faster than both Jiren and Mastered UI Goku. In UI, your thoughts don't limit your fighting speed, do you really think Dyspo is above that?

The reason Zeno could see them but couldn't see Dyspo is that the focus on Dyspo was the speed part so they added some lines from the zenos to distinguish it, but speed wasn;t the focus in the Jiren vs Goku fight so it was thrown out of the window. It's bad writing.

@amirx:

Zeno can track Goku and Jiren, he can't track Dypso.

you can't ignore the authors own words.

author made statements >> Head Canon.

@thebeardofzues: Author never said Dyspo is faster than Full power Jiren and Goku

So author's words are above everyone?Then Goku and Beerus are universe buster-----------Author>you by your logic...

Also in the fight where Zeno couldn't track Dyspo and Frieza,does that means Frieza is also faster than Jiren and Goku?

Zeno never complained about Jiren vs Goku because the authors didn't focused of their speed at that time... so

Bad writing

@thebeardofzues: Nope. You are just using the bad writing to support your argument. It doesn't make any sense that Dyspo is faster than Jiren and UI Goku. PIS should be ignored.

Zeno couldn't track Dyspo even with the slow motion, but he could see UI Goku and Jiren without it so with your logic Dyspo is not only faster than UI Goku, but a lot faster.

And to prove how bullshit this is once and for all, Zeno couldn't see Dyspo BEFORE he went to his SML mode (Golden Frieza was faster than that) back in episode 104 against Hit, and he had to use his GodPad, but with UI and Jiren he used nothing, so you might as well say Golden Frieza and Pre-SML mode Dyspo are faster than UI Goku and Jiren, now do you realize how wrong it is to use bad writing inconsequential stuff from the show to prove a point?

People need to learn how to analyze things properly. Zeno doesn't need to have super senses to see this level of speed. Goku and Jiren are punching so fast that it appears as if they aren't moving. Their bodies are stationary so everybody can see them, but what they can't see is their fist flying. The only thing they can see is the explosions from the collisions of fist. From their they analyze what is happening.

When Jiren used his rapid fire shockwave punches, goku was blocking them defensively, but it looked like goku arms were hanging down by his sides. This was to symbolize defense. As his arms start to rise he is starting to punch back.

It's not bad writing. People just don't analyze properly. And Dyspo is no where near this speed lol.

Right, He's above them

@LeonardoTMNT: he's massively below them lol. I guess hit and freeza are faster than goku and Jiren lol.

lol than this Beerus lowballers tell me that ui Goku and Jiren can scratch Beerus while they can't even move at ftl speeds like dyspo haha.

Dypso couldnt touch UI Goku. Jiren was too fast for Goku to even see his movements. Super saiyan red Goku was keeping up with Dyspo so call it all, bad writing. Besides in the manga, Jiren shown to be faster than Dyspo

@juzacloud: I know right...Even Mystic Gohan caught Dyspo>>>>so by low baller logic Gohan>>>Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku....

When Dyspo used his Super Speed technique, the Zeno's had to use the God Pad to see what he was doing. So ever character after that that moved faster than Super Speed Dyspo you can assume Zeno used the God Pad to see, like UIO Goku and Jiren.

Super Max Speed Dyspo is the fastest character. He was the only character too fast for the God Pad.

You have to remember too that Dypso is the only character who's faster than his own ki blasts - characters than can't dodge him can dodge his ki blasts. His power level is below that of Ultimate Gohan. He is all speed. Dyspo is highly likely too fast for his own reactions, indicated by attacking so linearly and being caught out on numerous occasions by much slower characters.

SMS Dyspo > What the GodPad can see > UI Goku + Jiren > Golden Frieza + GoD Toppo + SBB Vegeta + SSBKK? Goku > SS Dyspo > What Zeno can see > everyone else

@nemesisreloaded: Do you want to say that Goku and Jiren are not light speed since in the manga it was shown that Dyspo was impressed of Jiren's speed

And Zeno being able to see Goku vs Jiren could be nothing more than bad writing...

@elhermanossj5: Its possible its nothing more than bad writing, but I'm fairly sure they use Zeno's and the God Pads vision capabilities as some kind of watershed moment.

Also, both the Namekian and Saiyan/Frieza ships were FTL or MFTL, there's no reason to think the U11 Justice League ships aren't too, and Jiren is faster than them. Dyspo being impressed by Jirens speed doesn't mean Jiren is faster than Dyspo's secret max speed technique, but we'll see how the manga goes.

As far as the anime goes, I'm fairly certain lightspeed lies somewhere around "What Zeno can see" which would make sense if he never learn to fight and "see" by sensing ki.

dyspo was straight up caught by Gohan(without Freeza's trap slowing him down btw)

Goku and Jiren would speed blitz him to hell

Why are people assuming things when it wasn't even stated Dyspo has to use his absolute fastest mode to go FTL? That's basically the crux of all the arguments and,,, lowballing in this thread.

This is my interpretation as well. Normally I discount viewers being able to see a fight at this point, but they made special mention of Zeno's inability to follow Dyspo even with his Godpad and then never brought it up again. They wouldn't have brought in the Godpad at all if Dyspo's speed wasn't supposed to be exceptional.

On top of that Dyspo is a specialist character. It's good world building that he is faster than the immensely powerful generalists like Goku and Jiren. Nobody likes it when Superman beats the Flash in a foot race (except die hard Superman fans). This is the same situation.

Because Dyspo is ftl while Goku and Jiren aren't.

it's bad writing

Reason 1: Because DBS

Reason 2: Dyspo is faster.

Any chance of Zeno maybe adapting to the speeds?

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: you do realise perceiving mftl explosions would require mftl sight?

@nemesisreloaded: Dyspo was too fast to even be seen on the god pad.

Jesus the goku downplay is cancerous on this site

So sad how so many people keep up with this show that aren’t fans.

Yep. As I say:

Super Max Speed Dyspo is the fastest character. He was the only character too fast for the God Pad.

@skrskr:

I realise some people may be downplaying Goku but to me this is more about putting Dyspo where he should be and where has been shown to be - as the fastest non-god/angel character.