How does Zoom with his time manipulation powers hold up against the ultimate Flash from the future, Kingdom Come Flash, who could cross dimensions and be in multiple places at once? Battle is set anywhere and everywhere they take it!
I was thinking the same thing. I see him as Zoom and then some. I believe he could cross dimensions with his powers and also be at lots of other places all over the world at the same time! Now that's heavy, as Marty Mcfly would say :-)
No, he did not! CA didn't even come across or fight Flash, CA only appeard in the last issue and only fought Superman!
the human Juggernaut said:
"Assman said:
"the human Juggernaut said:
"Methos said:
"i'd actually give it to The Flash from KC...
he can simply just take the intertia from Zoom and prevent him from moving anywhere....
M "
Wally and jay tried, it didn't work. "
Wally & Jay aren't KC Flash! He easily >both of them in power and control!"
that doesn't matter. The point is taking speed from zoom does not work. "
It does matter, cause KC Flash has so many more options and power! How do you know what he can and can't do?
I do know that he pulled the pastor/priest while he was with Spectre! Again, he can see/hear and gain access into other dimenstions as stated by others!
"When and by who'm did he get tagged? I just went thru the series, didn't see him get tagged!"
Check again. Off the top of my head, I know he got hit when the league fought the asian "superheroes." Issue 2 I believe.
Also, Lightning and (Jakeem) Thunder caught him in the final issue. Thats why his helmet is off when he's behind Green Lantern's force field.
Sorry, getting hit by three people with absolutely no super speed puts him solidly behind Zoom. "
didn't see him get tagged in issue two. And there was one panel in issue four of Jakeem/thunder hurling lighting and what looks like a dome/bubble over him on the floor! If that's all you have to go on, sorry, that's not even close to enough to change my opinion if he had a one on one with Zoom! I personally think with his powerset he'd handle Zoom!
Check again. The samurai in red blasts him. Same page as the chick taking down Roy and the chunli knock off fighting Dick. As for Thunder and Lighting, how do you think Flash got on the floor? They knocked him down.
Fact: KC Flash flat out got caught by not one not two but THREE characters with absolutely NO super speed whatsoever. There is nothing that happened in Kingdom Come that even suggests that KC Flash is any faster than regular Flash.
Fact: Zoom is so fast that beings moving at the speed of light can't even see him. Every time the Flash has ever hit him (save one time, but I'm not gonna go into the details of that storyline), it is because Zoom let him.
um, check! All I see is someone taking a blast/shot at him, that's it!
um, check again! All I see is one panel of Jakeen/Thunder shooting some lighting while he's (Flash on the floor) Doesn't show how he got there, or what happend after! Not really much to go on, is there :-)
Flash is clearly being hit in that first one. What do you think is happening in that panel? Is he supposed to be dancing? He's getting shot, Raiden. He's not being shot at. He's been hit. Thats why he's falling backwards. Its what people do when they get hit really hard in the chest.
And Flash is clearly on the ground in the second one. His helmet has fallen off his head. He's surrounded by that lightning field. We don't know how he got there? How do you think he got there? Didja think he decided to take a nap mid fight? They hit him and knocked him down and then surrounded him with electricity.
Why on earth would you think KC Flash can hold a candle to Zoom? What has he done that puts him anywhere near the same level of power when he's getting his butt kicked by guys like this?
"Flash is clearly being hit in that first one. What do you think is happening in that panel? Is he supposed to be dancing? He's getting shot, Raiden. He's not being shot at. He's been hit. Thats why he's falling backwards. Its what people do when they get hit really hard in the chest.
And Flash is clearly on the ground in the second one. His helmet has fallen off his head. He's surrounded by that lightning field. We don't know how he got there? How do you think he got there? Didja think he put down his helmet and got down on the ground for them? They hit him and knocked him down and then surrounded him with electricity.
Why on earth would you think KC Flash can hold a candle to Zoom? What has he done that puts him anywhere near the same level of power when he's getting his butt kicked by guys like this?"
Is there anything after this panel while she/he/it is trying to blast him? No, all you have is an assumption! Did it show it affecting him? no, then it's nothing more than assuming on your part! show me where it connected, show me what affect it had on him IF it connected? Again, Your using those very vague one shot panels which show's jack outside of a skirmish, to try and say Zoom trumps him, sorry dude, your gonna have to do better than that :-) Your far from convincing down my end :-) Oh, and if I remember correctly, Zoom not only got tagged, but beat by a low tier JSA, as well as getting tagged, hit by WW! So, right back at ya ;-)
"Is there anything after this panel while she/he/it is trying to blast him? No, all you have is an assumption! Did it show it affecting him? no, then it's nothing more than assuming on your part! show me where it connected, show me what affect it had on him IF it connected?"
See that samurai guy? He's holding a stick/axe. See that yellow line? That's an energy beam, coming out of his stick/axe. Notice how the Flash is tilted backwards and to the side instead of running normally? Its almost as if he was hit by something which is knocking him off course isn't it? Also notice how the energy beam from the stick/axe is connected to the Flash's chest? Almost as if it was colliding with his chest?
Now, this could all be coincidence, but looking at this picture, I assume, based on the fact that the Flash is falling as if he just got hit with something and there is something making contact with his chest that that thing making contact with him just hit him. Since that energy beam that apparently just hit him is connected to a stick/axe and since that stick/axe is being held by a samurai who is looking at him, I also assume that the energy beam is coming from that stick/axe and that the samurai just used that stick/axe to shoot the Flash.
Hence my firm belief that the Flash just got tagged by that samurai in this picture.
But since you seem to think that I'm making unreasonable assumptions, I'd love to hear what you think is happening in this picture.
lordraiden said:
"Oh, and if I remember correctly, Zoom not only got tagged, but beat by a low tier JSA, as well as getting tagged, hit by WW! So, right back at ya ;-) "
The same Wonder Woman who moves at the speed of light and is thousand of times faster than that samurai dude? The same Wonder Woman who got her butt handed to her by Zoom and badly twice? The same Wonder Woman that only landed a blow because Zoom was not only going easy on her (having proven in the past that going all out, she can't even perceive his movements) but was so bored by how badly he was beating her that he decided to beat up on her friends instead?
And by "low tier JSA" you must mean Liberty Belle who also has super speed and can also move thousands of times faster than that samurai dude who he was also going easy on (again, having proven himself too fast for her to even percieve in the past).
Yeah. Not seeing how Zoom "losing" to two incredibly fast heroes is even remotely similar to KC Flash getting smoked by three characters with zero super speed.
Then what this is about is using bad writing and poor showings to win a battle. You've still stating nothing to convince me other than you think Zoom is above KC Flash, and to be honest, there's nothing really written that actually SHOWS KC Flash to be more powerfull, but he's certainly written and portrayed to be much more powerfull! Now you could use some obsucure panels wich reallllly don't show much of anything, outside of you saying that he can be tagged, but then again, the same can be said for Zoom, cause obviously, neither are invincible or untouchable :-)
Bad writing? Bad writing? KC Flash only showed up in four issues, not counting the Kingdom. Everything written about the character was by the same writer. Bad writing? How can you possibly cry bad writing at this?
Obscure panels? The character has only been in like 4 fight scenes. I showed he lost in two of them. You make a thread about a KC character and accuse me of using obscure panels? These are practically the only panels the character exists in.
But you're absolutely right about one thing. There is nothing written that shows KC Flash to be more powerful than Zoom. This is because KC Flash isn't more powerful than Zoom.
Uh yeah, considering he got beat by people with no super speed in two of them. Unlike Zoom, who only wants to make people into better heroes, Flash isn't going easy. When he's getting beat, he's really getting beat.
But instead of just trying to knock down all the examples I give of Zoom being better by crying bad writing or saying you don't see Flash getting hit when he's clearly getting hit, why don't you give a single reason why you think Flash is better?
" Uh yeah, considering he got beat by people with no super speed in two of them. Unlike Zoom, who only wants to make people into better heroes, Flash isn't going easy. When he's getting beat, he's really getting beat.But instead of just trying to knock down all the examples I give of Zoom being better by crying bad writing or saying you don't see Flash getting hit when he's clearly getting hit, why don't you give a single reason why you think Flash is better? "
" @vuviper: It doesn't work because Zoom's powers are time-based, not movement-based. He can't steal kinetic energy: Zoom doesn't use it. "
Zoom's powers are time based, yes, but even when he slows down time, he still needs to be able to moves, I understand that the power doesn't work on Zoom, I'm just saying the fact that his powers are time based isn't a good enough explanation for it.
he can simply just take the intertia from Zoom and prevent him from moving anywhere....
M "
Wally and jay tried, it didn't work. "
Wally & Jay aren't KC Flash! He easily >both of them in power and control!"
that doesn't matter. The point is taking speed from zoom does not work. "
Zoom uses Time ,not Speed, to his advantage. "
That's not a good enough explanation because normally a flash can steal speed to the extend that the person is unable to move, at all "
@the creator said:
" Ok, I've been refreshing myself on Relativity and Special Relativity as its been a while since I studied them. Zoom is external to the normal flow of time. So around him, he can control the flow of time as he chooses. Now this can obvously grant him the equivalent of the super sped power in the broadest sense i.e. being able to move really fast, as others in the normal flow of time only percieve him in our time frame. So Zoom accelerates time in his personal field, to millions of times faster than normal, he therefore acts millions of times faster, so he runs a million times faster / further and easily dodges attacks as to his eyes they are moving a miliion times slower (and yes he can go a lot faster than just a millions times). Being in a seperate time frame like this would also allow him to duplicate the effects of super speed movement like running across water and up the sides of buildings as the forces of gravity wont take effect on him as they are relating to our time frame and not his. The most difficult bit is his infinite mass punch effect. This would normally require the fast moving object to increase in mass as velocity increases but Zoom does not simply do this as his power is not true super speed. Again this would be in our time frame.Instead, we need to consider this from his perspective and not ours. The only thing I can think of for this is that his speed, relative to ours, is immensely fast as we are frozen in time by comparison to him. So when he hits us, he has the equivalent of that ultra velocity. Now why does he not shatter his hand because it does not have infinite mass ? I think that again relates to his field. He is not prey to the gravity forces seen by him running up the side of a building so likewise he is not effected by the impact of his hand when he remains at these velocities and we are not. We've seen him get hurt by impacts when they are generated mostly by people operating near / at his level, because then the relative speeds are close to be equal and the time frames permit the interaction on a more equal term. Best guesses. "
he can simply just take the intertia from Zoom and prevent him from moving anywhere....
M "
Wally and jay tried, it didn't work. "
Wally & Jay aren't KC Flash! He easily >both of them in power and control!"
that doesn't matter. The point is taking speed from zoom does not work. "
Zoom uses Time ,not Speed, to his advantage. "
That's not a good enough explanation because normally a flash can steal speed to the extend that the person is unable to move, at all "
@the creator said:
" Ok, I've been refreshing myself on Relativity and Special Relativity as its been a while since I studied them. Zoom is external to the normal flow of time. So around him, he can control the flow of time as he chooses. Now this can obvously grant him the equivalent of the super sped power in the broadest sense i.e. being able to move really fast, as others in the normal flow of time only percieve him in our time frame. So Zoom accelerates time in his personal field, to millions of times faster than normal, he therefore acts millions of times faster, so he runs a million times faster / further and easily dodges attacks as to his eyes they are moving a miliion times slower (and yes he can go a lot faster than just a millions times). Being in a seperate time frame like this would also allow him to duplicate the effects of super speed movement like running across water and up the sides of buildings as the forces of gravity wont take effect on him as they are relating to our time frame and not his. The most difficult bit is his infinite mass punch effect. This would normally require the fast moving object to increase in mass as velocity increases but Zoom does not simply do this as his power is not true super speed. Again this would be in our time frame.Instead, we need to consider this from his perspective and not ours. The only thing I can think of for this is that his speed, relative to ours, is immensely fast as we are frozen in time by comparison to him. So when he hits us, he has the equivalent of that ultra velocity. Now why does he not shatter his hand because it does not have infinite mass ? I think that again relates to his field. He is not prey to the gravity forces seen by him running up the side of a building so likewise he is not effected by the impact of his hand when he remains at these velocities and we are not. We've seen him get hurt by impacts when they are generated mostly by people operating near / at his level, because then the relative speeds are close to be equal and the time frames permit the interaction on a more equal term. Best guesses. "
"
thanks, I knew how his powers work, but in his time frame, even if we are completely frozen in time in comparsion, he requires the ability to move in order to effect anything
" @vuviper: True, but what are you trying to debate LOL. "
@CosmicSpiral said:
" @vuviper: These powers don't make sense, but neither do the Flashes'. If he really stole kinetic energy to freeze people, they would die. "
The powers themselves i actually don't find hard to "make sense" I'm just saying that Zoom 's time based powers aren't an explanation for speed steal immunity, Not really debating anything sloth. I know he's immune, I just wouldn't say it's because his powers are time based
"KC cant be contained by anyone dimension or reality he exist in various ones at once time itself is also a dimension......ill side with KC flash..."
Wrong as usual.
@Son_of_Magnus said:
"@Zoom said:
" Uh yeah, considering he got beat by people with no super speed in two of them. Unlike Zoom, who only wants to make people into better heroes, Flash isn't going easy. When he's getting beat, he's really getting beat.But instead of just trying to knock down all the examples I give of Zoom being better by crying bad writing or saying you don't see Flash getting hit when he's clearly getting hit, why don't you give a single reason why you think Flash is better? "
Remember Me B!tch? Mwuhahahaahahaha!! =P"
Moron. This is what happens when Zoom half tries against Damage.
@GrayWolf said:
"@Zoom: I don't know who you are man but you got good eyes. I never noticed those before. "
How about you reread what actually happened in Kingdom Come?
For somebody who nobody sees and nobody hears, Flash sure had a bunch of conversations and sure lost a bunch of fights. Clearly, the Spectre was mistaken.
I realize you have this pathetic need to beat me but face it, CK. Its never gonna happen. You're not good enough at debating to beat me and even if you were, you're not smart enough to draw the correct conclusion in the first place.
So keep flagging me over and over while breaking forum rules. Keep trying to call me out and keep getting spanked and laughed at every time you do. You're a joke.
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