Who can take on 1,000 Supermen?

@boutatakeanl: blackheart was beaten by miles

@professorrespect said:

Well the question is "can" they take on those Superman, and all of the people listed have the hax and abilities to do so. Wally and Zoom are too fast to be tagged

Wally and Zoom also can't do anything if any of the Supermen choose to not engage them on the ground.

Waverider does so as well

Having time manip alone doesn't mean gg for anyone. What can Wave do?

and I don't know what you mean by regular Obsidian

Regular Obsidian. Not amped Obsidian that got all of the good feats like taking over the JSA or whatever. Regular Obsidian can take over one person usually.

@professorrespect: maybe not doomsday then but green scar was fighting guys that could stomp 1000 supermen

Like who?

an unstable sentry whose massively weaker than stable sentry

Sentry was literally stated by the same author who wrote that story to be at his peak of power. He wasn't "unstable" as that's wank.

sentry’s hax will be a problem

Sentry doesn't use hax as regular Stable Sentry either. This sounds like you don't read comics more so than anything else.

@professorrespect: superman, regardless of quantity, would have trouble making wbhulk flinch, let alone hurt him

@boutatakeanl: blackheart was beaten by miles

Gog War Doomsday couldn't even beat sub-Supermen Gog time clones reliably. Stable Sentry....no, lol. He lost to WWH at the peak of his powers. WBH....nah. 1000 would be enough to beat him down extremely convincingly.

Wait but... constantly releasing planet-busting gamma radiation. Wouldn't that tag all 1,000 of them?

Wouldn't kill all of them, no. Eventually WBH would get overwhelmed by the numbers and either dragged off the planet or the planet dragged away from him.

But didn't we previously establish that Superman, post-crisis, didn't have planetary durability? And if it's constantly releasing, it would just keep taking them out dozens by dozens.

Also, I think knutcracker meant Miles Morales.

@professorrespect: considering savage hulk's high end durability feats are planetary

Yea but that's high end, ofc. The point of high ends is that they aren't consistent, they are the peak feats without going into outliers as you say.

and the rogue gallery who consistently gives him a ffigh he completely ignored

Guys like Machine Man, Sandman, Blob, Zzzax, Xemnu, Rhino, Fang Foom, Wendigo and many more have given Hulk major trouble or worse so and the vast majority are mid tier.

Sups doesn't, but that doesn't mean 1000 Sups are all gonna die at once. Eventually they get to him or they push the planet away with a dozen or so combined shoving.

@professorrespect: some are high tier tho, and those were the ones hulk was shrugging off. Like I just sincerely doubt bi beast, wendingo, armcheddon, and fff hit so much weaker than superman

Out of all of them, only one has a win on Savage Hulk.

superman does any damage whatsoever

Lowballing. Superman, let alone 1000 of them would do damage to Hulk. Something is definitely wrong in your scaling here.

@professorrespect:

Wally and Zoom also can't do anything if any of the Supermen choose to not engage them on the ground.

Doesn't matter, Wally has speed steal and time freeze

Right, and yet again you're implying a morals on Wally does all of this, which he won't instantly, and even if he does there's too many of them to do that too before they get above ground.

Having time manip alone doesn't mean gg for anyone. What can Wave do?

Freeze time, summon duplicates of himself from various points in time, manipulate energy

So when has he done this in a combat scenario.

Regular Obsidian. Not amped Obsidian that got all of the good feats like taking over the JSA or whatever. Regular Obsidian can take over one person usually.

Where was he stated to be amped?

Erm, the story he was in was him teaming up with a old JSA villain who manipulated the same source of energy he uses, Ian Karnull. He absorbed Karnull when he became expendable and drained all of his Shadowland energy into him, which was a amp. Guy went from covering a singular city to covering the globe.

@professorrespect: well, he is immune to all of Superman’s methods of causing damage, and Clark should be susceptible to hellfire so GR should be a perfect counter to any number of Clark’s. Same with Nate who can exist as pure psionic energy.

@professorrespect: wendingo has a win right?

No he doesn't.

Armcheddon has a win against silver surfer

Surfer was nerfed.

And I don't think so... Unless supes is planetary+ in striking

You don't need to be planetary+ to hurt Hulk.

@professorrespect: I’d say riders being affected by blunt force trauma is more of an outlier....generic ability of multiple riders shown time and again is their ability to regenerate anything up to and including their entire body

Regeneration doesn't stop you from being knocked out. Deadpool can do the same thing but that doesn't mean he's immune from being knocked out.

A Johnny rider should regenerate and spam hellfire

Good luck tagging morals off, OOC Supermen then.

I should have specified Shaman Nate.

I can see Shaman Nate if he uses TP a lot. Otherwise there's just too many.

@professorrespect:

Right, and yet again you're implying a morals on Wally does all of this, which he won't instantly, and even if he does there's too many of them to do that too before they get above ground.

Did you not read the rest of my post? I said "I'm not arguing that, just mentioning that this is a method that he CAN use."

Ok, so by the time Wally gets to the point where he's considering that, the Superman have already used their mental martial arts/will be flying away to shove Wally away with the planet.

So when has he done this in a combat scenario.

He basically froze an army of people across Limbo

Ok, but he himself admits that he can't hold that on for every long, and that was like a dozen people from what I seen. this is 1000 Supermen.

Erm, the story he was in was him teaming up with a old JSA villain who manipulated the same source of energy he uses, Ian Karnull. He absorbed Karnull when he became expendable and drained all of his Shadowland energy into him, which was a amp. Guy went from covering a singular city to covering the globe.

I'm pretty sure Ian just helped him tap into the Shadowlands better

No, he absorbed Ian into himself, which greatly enhanced his powers after. Him going from covering a city to the whole planet isn't a mindset thing when he was already "bad" before that anyway.

@professorrespect: Deadpool is a poor comparison. GR can reform instantaneously from total annihilation magically

Deadpool can do that as well, and that doesn't mean he's incapable of being knocked out. Your argument is based around a complete misconception of how regen works.

@professorrespect:

Ok, so by the time Wally gets to the point where he's considering that, the Superman have already used their mental martial arts/will be flying away to shove Wally away with the planet.

I'm not even arguing when he will get to that point, I'm stating that he can use that tactic on this army, morals/in character stuff has nothing to do with point

Ok, but he himself admits that he can't hold that on for every long, and that was like a dozen people from what I seen. this is 1000 Supermen.

Yeah because it's a limbo dimension, where the flow of time is insistent. It's not your average place, time was basically messed up there because the JSA was trapped their for eternity

How do we know that's the reason he struggles with it through?

No, he absorbed Ian into himself, which greatly enhanced his powers after. Him going from covering a city to the whole planet isn't a mindset thing when he was already "bad" before that anyway.

He doesn't need to cover the whole planet to beat these Supermen he could just possess them

Obviously Obsidan has never gotten close to that many people before.

It was never stated to be an amp

Right, so he went from covering a city to a planet because he felt like it? Not believing that. Check out 90% of his material and he's not getting to the level of power you're trying to say he always had.

@professorrespect: I disagree, I hold that you are misattributing a mundane regeneration ability to a situation when magical re-materialization would be more appropriate

You're saying this like Blaze hasn't ever been knocked out or anything when it's happened too many times to count.

. Furthermore, with hellfire “Blaze-ing” (my apologies) outward in all directions how is Clark going to touch him

OOC Sups can just throw rubble at him or just push the planet into the sun with him in it. Win via incap.

@professorrespect:

How do we know that's the reason he struggles with it through?

Well he did mention that he was struggling because the flow of time in that place was insistent, and it was functioning in such a way that the JSA would be stuck there and the Spectre stated that the Limbo dimension existed outside of normal space/time.

Waverider's task was to freeze them in time so the JSA could temporarily leave Limbo to fight alongside others. He's also frozen people in time without difficulty before, including a whole university, and I'm pretty sure the average university can have well over a thousand people on campus

Gallery

Obviously Obsidan has never gotten close to that many people before.

Right, so he went from covering a city to a planet because he felt like it? Not believing that. Check out 90% of his material and he's not getting to the level of power you're trying to say he always had.

Let's say for the sake of the argument that it was an amp, it's not necessary to beat all these people, he can go intangible or reform so the Superman can't harm him and he can blind several of them which can disorient them

And the Superman can use mental martial arts on him, can shove the planet into the sun with him on it, etc. It's not hard to beat him with a 1000 Supermen all acting OOC.

Also every time he possesses someone they become a part of his army

And the max amount of people he's possessed has been like, a few people notwithstanding amps. 1000 people ain't gonna be close to something he can reliably pull off.

@professorrespect:

And the Superman can use mental martial arts on him, can shove the planet into the sun with him on it, etc. It's not hard to beat him with a 1000 Supermen all acting OOC.

Are you talking about Torquasm Vo? How exactly is that going to affect Obsidian?

It's a mental martial art. Using it to effect him by entering his mind is fine, ofc. The fact it beat a impressive TP user is even better considering Obsidian's mental weaknesses and instability.

Also I'm pretty sure he needs to concentrate to use that ability are the Supermen just going to be sitting ducks for Obsidian to take over?

Again, you're acting like he can take over dozens when he's done so for like two thugs and had no chance to do it with guys with more potency like Gog.

It's also a good thing that Obsidian can exist wherever there is darkness, pushing the planet into the sun won't do anything since he can just, you know, fly away

Obsidian would burn on the sun, lol. A ball of light ain't gonna be fun for him.

Also the OP says out of character but not morals off

Sups's character is that he has strong morals and will save the earth by any post: being OOC is the opposite of that.

And the max amount of people he's possessed has been like, a few people notwithstanding amps. 1000 people ain't gonna be close to something he can reliably pull off.

His shadows can already harm the Supermen, possess them

Again, you're acting like Obsidian is a teambuster when he's been a nothing member of the JSA for years and years. The max amount he's done is possess a few people and you're acting like he can beat a 1000 high tiers now because you bought into the hype a bit.

@professorrespect:

It's a mental martial art. Using it to effect him by entering his mind is fine, ofc. The fact it beat a impressive TP user is even better considering Obsidian's mental weaknesses and instability.

Who is this impressive person that it beat, Dominus?

@ouroborik Knows.

What are his best TP feats to suggest the Supermen could overcome Obsidian, who's scared Brainwave Jr.

Brainwave Jr ain't even impressive lol.

Again, you're acting like he can take over dozens when he's done so for like two thugs and had no chance to do it with guys with more potency like Gog.

A few thugs? Do you consider the JSA thugs?

Amped via absorbing Karkull's share of the Shadowlands. Again, you're taking this singular moment as him consistent across the board.

Not to mention that he failed against Gog because Gog had no fears to exploit

What fears does a OOC Sups have? Losing Lois? He wouldn't care. Losing Earth? Wouldn't care.

Obsidian would burn on the sun, lol. A ball of light ain't gonna be fun for him.

Why would he let himself go into the sun?

He can fly in space?

Sups's character is that he has strong morals and will save the earth by any post: being OOC is the opposite of that.

Pushing the earth into the sun is a tactic (afaik) that he's never employed

Doesn't matter if you're OOC. Anything goes.

Again, you're acting like Obsidian is a teambuster when he's been a nothing member of the JSA for years and years. The max amount he's done is possess a few people and you're acting like he can beat a 1000 high tiers now because you bought into the hype a bit.

I mean I'm not saying he can possess thousand of people immediately, but a handful of Supermen on his side

What, like 5? 5 against 1000? I'm sure that'll go well. He's never done more than a few discarding the Karkull-amped state.

@professorrespect:

Brainwave Jr ain't even impressive lol.

I mean he seems better than what I've seen of Dominus

beating Ultra Humanite

Humanite doing.....

Maxima

Max beat him later even with the extra amp from his father.

and being more powerful than his father Brainwave Sr

There's not any real proof of that considering his father was blocking guys like SA Sups and teambusting the JSA proper, and the immense power he had drove his son mad due to being incapable of controlling it properly.

Amped via absorbing Karkull's share of the Shadowlands. Again, you're taking this singular moment as him consistent across the board.

No he possessed them before he absorbed Karkull

Assisted by Karkull's share, etc. Even the scan hints at this by Atom and Fate's dialogue. Maybe you should use stuff that isn't him amped or cooperating with someone else providing their own Shadowland energy.

What fears does a OOC Sups have? Losing Lois? He wouldn't care. Losing Earth? Wouldn't care.

Fear of death?

Sups had this issue back against a Hell-Lord called Neron playing these up and he wasn't convinced.

He can fly in space?

He can exist pretty much wherever there is darkness

A sun would probably kill him then considering UV light was a major weakness for him. The sun would be a nightmare ofc