@ancient_god: As a member of the Vishanti, Agamotto is considered one of the most powerful mystical beings in existence.
He sees Dormammu as just a stupid and unimportant brat (Although they were enemies); Fought against Shuma-Gorath (Along with the other members); Agamotto is the '' Guardian of all the Magic in the Multiverse''; The fight against Slorioth would destroy the entire universe (IIRC Slorioth's original size is bigger than the universe itself or something like that) and together with the Vishanti was ready to fight against all other magical entities.
@strangetales: Agomatto did fight galactus. It wasn't anything that special since they both weren't taking it that seriously. But it was still a fun read.
@strangetales: Agomatto did fight galactus. It wasn't anything that special since they both weren't taking it that seriously. But it was still a fun read.
Is this full power tyrant? If not he isn't gonna have a fun time, i would assume fighting Agamotto in his own realm would be akin to fighting Dormammu in the Dark Dimension, although Agamotto doesn't have many feats.
Thats good that its full power Tyrant, I will back Agamotto in this fight, but it could go either way because of lack of feats from Agamotto, although I suspect he is stronger in his realm
@strangetales: Agomatto did fight galactus. It wasn't anything that special since they both weren't taking it that seriously. But it was still a fun read.
I wish people realize the same thing as you.....
Yeah I remember the fight being like that. Really in no ones favor. It was a great read.
Ill back Agamotto in his own realm. I would back a full powered Tyrant outside Agamottos realm though. Which is hard for me to say I like both characters but I love magic and Agamottos is a big gun
Tyrant fight against Galactus was much closer than the one Galan had with Agamotto. Galactus shedder him twice and only stalemated because he is ignorant of magic and did not understand the symbiotic realtionship Agamotto has with his dimension. I think Tyrant should win.
Tyrant fight against Galactus was much closer than the one Galan had with Agamotto. Galactus shedder him twice and only stalemated because he is ignorant of magic and did not understand the symbiotic realtionship Agamotto has with his dimension. I think Tyrant should win.
Not exactly.
Agamotto is known to play around during his fights as shown against Strange during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#7:
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This was even said on panel:
Moreover, when Agamotto and Galactus fought we actually perceive this in Stephen's words:
Agamotto's forms were basically a way of joking and like Stephen said: '' Those are simply guises he puts on when he's in the mood''. Anyway, it's pretty clear that Agamotto wasn't taking the fight seriously until Galactus destroyed his memory bubbles. Funny enough....This is what The Vishanti have to say about someone such as Galactus:
And they weren't talking about recurring to the use of violence as The Vishanti itself almost fought Slorioth( But this would destroy the universe) and the other mystical entities during the War of Seven Spheres, so we can just assume they mean that Galan is a lower form of life to them. Oh! The fights between Agamotto and Strange, as well Agamotto and Galactus were written by the same person....It makes a lot of sense for Agamotto to hold back.
We never saw Agamotto fighting seriously against Galan given the fight was interrupted just when he got angry( There's nothing about Agamotto being more powerful in his realm too). Also, Agamotto does have some pretty good feats( Some were together with the other Vishanti's members):
Took Dr Strange out of Death's power( You must keep in mind that Death really wants and has a deep interest for Strange's soul) during Doctor Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts#1:
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Or taking an invoking spell combining the most powerful mystical entities( Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#7):
During Marvel Premiere#5, The Vishanti admitted to have battle Shuma-Gorath( Someone that I personally put many levels above Tyrant):
Their fight against Slorioth would release macro forces capable of destroying the universe and they even summoned The Living Tribunal in the middle like nothing during Secret Defenders#25:
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Heck, they were even ready to battle all the other mystical entities for Dr.Strange( Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#49):
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Agamotto was folding/ripping/destroying the entire 616( New Avengers Vol.2 #1-6):
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Everything was confirmed too(New Avengers Vol.2 #4 and 6):
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He even had lost most of his powers during all this according to Voodoo( New Avengers Vol.2 #6):
@cerridwen: What Agamotto did with the others is pretty irrelevant as it does not appropriately indicate how powerful he is, and most of those feats are things Galactus has matched or ecceded.
The only really impressive one is the fight against Shuma-Gorath, but it proves nothing as it was both off-panel and a shared feat.
The Vishanti considering him a lesser being proves nothing except their arrogance; Agamotto belittled Galactus for his mortal origin, if he held back it's not because he was playing around but because he did not think his opponents was a match for him. And he was clearly wrong considering he could not harm Galactus even with a protracted blast, while Agamotto got shredded twice for his trouble.
You are also assuming Galactus was giving it his all; why would he, when he perceived his opponent as nothing more than a particularly persistent bug?
What Agamotto did with the others is pretty irrelevant as it does not appropriately indicate how powerful he is, and most of those feats are things Galactus has matched or ecceded.
The only really impressive one is the fight against Shuma-Gorath, but it proves nothing as it was both off-panel and a shared feat.
How so? Agamotto may be the weakest of the Vishanti, but the difference of power between them should be relatively small and quite insignificant given they're portrayed as equals most of the time( Oshtur probably being the strongest one)....I don't know why this wouldn't indicate his mighty.
You didn't pay attention to Oshtur's words, did you?
The Vishanti are no longer concerned about the evils of the world and basically are no longer concerned by Shuma-Gorath. This gives the idea that they're either as powerful as him or even more.
Agamotto himself battled against Shuma in the past according to Kaluu during Strange Tales#Vol.2:
He wasn't able to destroy him, but the fact that the Earth-Realm still exist and is intact proves that Agamotto is enough against Shuma( They might even have fought inside of Shuma's Dimension going by the fact that Kaluu was referring about what Strange just did) Also, did you forget about what happened during Thanos Imperative? It proved Shuma's superiority over Galactus.
The Vishanti considering him a lesser being proves nothing except their arrogance; Agamotto belittled Galactus for his mortal origin, if he held back it's not because he was playing around but because he did not think his opponents was a match for him. And he was clearly wrong considering he could not harm Galactus even with a protracted blast, while Agamotto got shredded twice for his trouble.
You are also assuming Galactus was giving it his all; why would he, when he perceived his opponent as nothing more than a particularly persistent bug?
It actually proves Galactus being inferior as The Vishanti doesn't have arrogance or any human emotions( They transcend such things) and I failed to understand why Agamotto commenting and ridiculizing his origin means anything.They were insulting each other during the whole fight.
Agamotto indeed saw Galactus as an unworthy foe, though:
However, this doesn't mean Agamotto couldn't be holding back or joking around like he usually and I already posted why this is the most logical reasoning.
You keep using their fight and the fact that Galactus destroyed Agamotto's forms as a way to prove your point, but I guess you barely look the scans from my previous post. Don't you remember his fight against Strange?
I'm going to post for you again:
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Stephen was able to hold off Agamotto and even damage him. Why? Because Agamotto wasn't serious at all and Strange said that the same could destroy him if he wanted.
Galactus didn't nothing impressive and I never said Galactus was giving everything, but analysing the situation he should be.
Tyrant, in all likelihood, should be more powerful. The problem however lies in Agamotto's being. Agamatto isn't a physical being, the same reason Galactus was unable to defeat him, would still apply to Tyrant.
How so? Agamotto may be the weakest of the Vishanti, but the difference of power between them should be relatively small and quite insignificant given they're portrayed as equals most of the time( Oshtur probably being the strongest one)....I don't know why this wouldn't indicate his mighty.
Hehe but you are using this to somehow suggest Vishanti are equal beings and compared of more or less equal part, that's a rather big assumption to make though friend given that has never been showcased. Also to be honest, Galactus has done just about everything Vishanti as a trinity has ever shown themselves as well. I do not entirely agree with the interpretation you have of various instances you have posted.
You didn't pay attention to Oshtur's words, did you?
The Vishanti are no longer concerned about the evils of the world and basically are no longer concerned by Shuma-Gorath. This gives the idea that they're either as powerful as him or even more.
How does that give you the idea though friend? Isn't that entirely an assumption you are making. To give you another example, Shield were uninterested in battle of Thanos Imperative does not suggest Shield are somehow more powerful than being involved during Thanos Imperative like Celestials and Primodial Gods (who were killed) etc. That's entirely an assumption you are making.
Being away from earth's good or evil and not wanting in interfere in Shuma Gorath's affair doesnt make them any more powerful or weaker.
Agamotto himself battled against Shuma in the past according to Kaluu during Strange Tales#Vol.2
Kaluu does not say anything of the sort though friend you are making that entirely on your own. All Kalu says is Stephen managed to do what no other sorcerer supreme could not do, even Agamotto. That does not somehow mean Agamotto tried and fail.
The reason the name Agamotto is mentioned is because he was the first sorcerer supreme and evidently the most powerful and hence a member of the vishanti. That expression itself suggest Stephen, now, with Shuman power has become more than Agamotto.
He wasn't able to destroy him, but the fact that the Earth-Realm still exist and is intact proves that Agamotto is enough against Shuma( They might even have fought inside of Shuma's Dimension going by the fact that Kaluu was referring about what Strange just did) Also, did you forget about what happened during Thanos Imperative? It proved Shuma's superiority over Galactus.
But friend you entirely made up a story based on a sentence. Nothing of this has been shown on comics, at least not to the best of my knowledge. I do not believe there are many Vishanti's appearances that I have not read.
It actually proves Galactus being inferior as The Vishanti doesn't have arrogance or any human emotions( They transcend such things) and I failed to understand why Agamotto commenting and ridiculizing his origin means anything.They were insulting each other during the whole fight.
Now again these are entirely your directive as opposed to what actually happened in the issue. The most crucial thing to remember is the circumstances.
Magus had collected 5 cosmic cube causing Eternity to go catamose. Galactus had to find the source to these energies to revive Eternity. Knowing that the fate of Eternity is important above all else he abandoned everything to travel with Dr. Strange. In fact it was repeatedly mentioned that Galactus has not fed for days.
It was this Galactus that fought Agamotto in his realm. First you suggested that Agamotto was not considering Galactus seriously but that was merely a momentary thing Agamotto says. The only reason he survived was because Galactus had no way to entirely defeat a being like Agamotto who aren't inherently physical.
If a character G in an extremely weakened condition walks into the realm of A. G is also a cosmic character and had even earlier admitted to Stephen that he is out of his element when it comes to magic. Yet here G was, starving, in A's own realm, his place of power and in an element strange to him. Both combatant eventually walk away with A losing most of his precious commodities that he repeatedly mentions he value and being completely unable to defeat G.
Under this circumstances how can you somehow assume A is so much more powerful than G, friend? I am not entirely sure if that's a very reasonable analysis.
What Agamotto did with the others is pretty irrelevant as it does not appropriately indicate how powerful he is, and most of those feats are things Galactus has matched or ecceded.
The only really impressive one is the fight against Shuma-Gorath, but it proves nothing as it was both off-panel and a shared feat.
How so? Agamotto may be the weakest of the Vishanti, but the difference of power between them should be relatively small and quite insignificant given they're portrayed as equals most of the time( Oshtur probably being the strongest one)....I don't know why this wouldn't indicate his mighty.
The problem is that feats from the Vishanti as a whole are shared feats, it is not indicative of the power of the singular members.
You didn't pay attention to Oshtur's words, did you?
The Vishanti are no longer concerned about the evils of the world and basically are no longer concerned by Shuma-Gorath. This gives the idea that they're either as powerful as him or even more.
The implication is that they are not concerned about what Shuma is treatening, instead of not being concerned of Shuma himself. They fought him before, it's a good feat for them collectively, but how do you scale for Agamotto? He is at best a third of that, but it's hard to scale and unreliable at the very least.
Agamotto himself battled against Shuma in the past according to Kaluu during Strange Tales#Vol.2:
He wasn't able to destroy him, but the fact that the Earth-Realm still exist and is intact proves that Agamotto is enough against Shuma( They might even have fought inside of Shuma's Dimension going by the fact that Kaluu was referring about what Strange just did) Also, did you forget about what happened during Thanos Imperative? It proved Shuma's superiority over Galactus.
What is being said here is that no sorcerer, not, even Agamotto ever destroyed Shuma. This is not enough to say that Agamotto matched Shuma alone considering the only fight we know of happened against the full Vishanti. There was never a fight between the two on panel. He could very easily be referring to that instance, as only Agamotto, among the Vishanti, can be considered a sorcerer. You cannot accredit such a feat to Agamotto based on this. It's nebolous at best.
It should be noted that during the Thanos Imperative all the many angled ones trew their lot into the fight. That is Shuma and all of his siblings, who are implied to be his equals. I suppose you could extrapolate Shuma's superiority as it is implied that there were things stronger than the Galactus Engine in the Cancerverse, but that only puts the whole Vishanti as stronger than Galactus (Galactus has many feats that surpass those of the Vishanti outside of that one instance though).
The Vishanti considering him a lesser being proves nothing except their arrogance; Agamotto belittled Galactus for his mortal origin, if he held back it's not because he was playing around but because he did not think his opponents was a match for him. And he was clearly wrong considering he could not harm Galactus even with a protracted blast, while Agamotto got shredded twice for his trouble.
You are also assuming Galactus was giving it his all; why would he, when he perceived his opponent as nothing more than a particularly persistent bug?
It actually proves Galactus being inferior as The Vishanti doesn't have arrogance or any human emotions( They transcend such things) and I failed to understand why Agamotto commenting and ridiculizing his origin means anything.They were insulting each other during the whole fight.
They trascend them so much that Agamotto trew at leat two temper tantrums.
Agamotto indeed saw Galactus as an unworthy foe, though:
In this scan Strange is saying that Galactus thought Agamotto unworthy because the latter chose to look like a caterpillar. It's why he mentions how Galactus is underestimating his foe.
However, this doesn't mean Agamotto couldn't be holding back or joking around like he usually and I already posted why this is the most logical reasoning.
You keep using their fight and the fact that Galactus destroyed Agamotto's forms as a way to prove your point, but I guess you barely look the scans from my previous post. Don't you remember his fight against Strange?
I'm going to post for you again:
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Stephen was able to hold off Agamotto and even damage him. Why? Because Agamotto wasn't serious at all and Strange said that the same could destroy him if he wanted.
I use the fight because it's the only direct comparison between the two. Any clear individual feat Agamotto has, Galactus has topped; the Vishanti as a whole might be considered more powerful because of the instance with Shuma-Gorath, but it does not imply Agamotto's superiority as those were shared feats. It's hard to gauche from those.
Galactus didn't nothing impressive and I never said Galactus was giving everything, but analysing the situation he should be.
Why? Your own scan says Galactus thinks Agamotto a bug. We know he did not consider Agamotto a foe he would need his full power against. If we accept that Agamotto was indeed holding back, then the instance can be discarded as a whole as neither combatant was trying particularly hard.
The One you call Agamotto is a close friend of mine, we play cosmic chess often and he cheats often. This really isn't a fair battle, as it was blatantly evident that Agamotto was having a fun time with Galactus in their battle, while his siblings looked on without even remotely a hint of stress over it. They both knew full well their brother was far in excess of Galactus and that he stood no real chance of inflicting harm upon him.
Thats good that its full power Tyrant, I will back Agamotto in this fight, but it could go either way because of lack of feats from Agamotto, although I suspect he is stronger in his realm
And a "lack of feats" means really nothing when the feats he does have (easily stomping Strange even with the power of Dormammu and other magical creatures, toying with Galactus and shaking multiple dimensions in the process, created the Eye of Agamotto from himself which in turn took out multiple high level threats, like HOM Scarlet Witch, nearly destroying Earth's dimension when massively weakened, etc) make him capable of dealing with Tyrant just fine.
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