SCP-3812 (Highballed) vs Living Tribunal

SCP-3812

Living Tribunal

A high-balled SCP-3812 is basically an hypothetical full potential 3812, who transcends infinite narratives, where each narrative views the previous one as fiction. Who wins?

BUMP

Dont need to high ball , SCP-3812 Stomp

3812 curbstomps

I would scale LT to the Scarlet King who was capable of nearly destroying the Tree of Knowledge and whose army couldn't be stopped until the Brothers Death revived every single soul of every being who ever lived to combat against said army. The fodder gods of the SCP mythos are said to be infinite-D and capable of wiping out all of creation. The Scarlet King infinitely transcends those gods. He would win against LT in a tough fight.

3812 on the other hand, infinitely transcends the Low Elder Gods, who Scarlet King is a part of. 3812 is simply too much for LT to handle.

@squeak:

How? This meta arguments for him are pure wank. It was stated that he is above the real world....and, did he actually affect it? No, he didn't. That's like saying that a fictional character is real. The word of the author just counts if it's theoretically possible. Fictional characters are concepts from the mind and can't jump into the real world. It doesn't matter how hard you twist it at that point. Sorry, but the only reason why I see people say that 3812 wins is because meta wank (Without highball)

Why?

Prove on infinite dimensions?

BUMP

Nobody even says that SCP 3812 is above our real world, what the hell you're talking about? He's above OUR narrative, like in the Dark Tower books there's a universe where Stephen King exists as the author of the series, it's a fictional version of our real world which he transcends. He was made to transcend narratives, so when he's up against LT, he'll transcend his narrative and go to a level above him and then treats him like he's fictional to him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SCP/comments/9ujt7y/how_powerful_are_gods_in_the_scpverse/

That's NLF on next level. He has never shown that he can transcend the narrative of beings like LT, since he is way above multiversal. This ''transcending narratives'' power just applys to his verse, cuz of the difference of power between marvel and the SCP foundation. That's how feats work. Basics of debate. That's like to say an street level character could beats LT, because he was said to one-punch big yellow asian boys.

A Highballed Scp 3812 in my opinion could potentially be argued to be an infinity expanding consciousness that expands above a countless amounts of narratives and has surpassed every being in his verse via expanding above their narrative growing more powerful every moment the only problem with my current theory about scp 3812 is that we don´t know exactly if it is more like a finite being expanding infinitely which would make it much less powerful. I do believe that a Highballed Scp 3812 could probably defeat LT in most circumstances though.

Nah, for now, let's not go by that theory, since we don't really know if it's true or not.

okay then I would probably back LT in a close fight due to having just more feats to grab from.

He has shown to be able to transcend the narrative of his creator who is also implied to have written the SCPverse that is also a multiverse.

But you seem to have made this entire thread just so that you can shit on SCP 3812.

No he's right, SCP 3812 is going to be more powerful than every being in the SCPverse because he was written to be like that. The entire verse is a bunch of maybe endless narratives that are stacked upon each other, with every narrative being more powerful than the one below. And SCP 3812 just climbs all the way up until he's at the top and has surpassed it all.

Nope, I even said that he is on same level with LT (highballed) one time in another thread, but you're arguments are simply bullshit, lol. The word from the author just counts so long if it's theoretically possible. SCP-3812 is imagination from the mind and can't have control over the author or transcend his narrative, because the author says so. It's still the author who says ''You transcend my narrative!'' and not SCP-3812. He can simply undo that control. Meta is simply bullshit and that's it. It still happens within the fiction.

Where the hell did I say that he "surpasses" the author itself? Your arguments are bullshit, because all you do is put words into other peoples mouths, you pretend that I'm saying that he's above real life, really? Of course it's fictional, it's like I said in my example of the Dark Tower series, you can have a fictional copy of our real world in your story that can get surpassed by a fictional being.

No one is pretending that he's above the real life author.

Same structure exists in marvel with infinite higher dimensional space. Infinite narratives would be the same size like an infinite-dimensional multiverse with each dimension surpassing the previous dimension by an infinite amount and that's why I think he is on LT's level, or a little bit down below.

Well then... Let's agree to disagree?

I can see how you think LT wins, he might do to, I'm not so sure myself now. It's been a while since I've read SCP 3812 article.

And the fact that you said that he doesn't transcend real life (Many people say that) and just surpasses his multiverse just proves that he is limited within his verse and that his meta and NLF doesn't apply to the living tribunal. Why would you assume that he can transcend LT's narrative, if he's way above said narratives of the SCP verse? That makes no sense featwise. But yeah, they're on the same level or SCP-3812 a little bit down below.

Eh, I'm not very good when it comes to remembering Marvel comics, seems that I've lowballed LT.

At least we're not talking about LM here....

@darkhunter89: Who do you mean by LM?

Lucifer Morningstar from DC. I can't stand his character.

Why? He has pretty impressive feats, even if ''Lucifer transcends fiction'' is pure wank.

It's basically that, I can't stand the amount of wank he has on this site and in general.

SCP 3812 is stated to transcend infinite narrative dimensions. but we do not know how much, or how much the scale.

You mean the gap in size between the dimensions? My english is poor, so I don't really know what you mean by that.

@norsewinter: If yes, I said ''infinite higher narrative dimensions'', since it was even stated that one narrative dimension is stated to be infinite above the SCPverse. So I took that interpretation for the rest of these other higher dimensions, which would make sense, due to the indication. That's basically my highball.

the problem is, many fictions claim that each dimension is "fiction to reality" difference greater than the level below it.

but this is in fact an exaggeration because fictions like DC and Umineko use this definition, and yet many times lower level beings can easily access supposedly more "real" realms just like that.

last i recall, if you are really reality > fiction greater than something, that thing never comes to real life.

have you ever read a comic book yasindermann in real life and expected superman to pop out? no. it is in fact an exaggeration that should not be taken seriously. because each of these narratives possess a hierarchal relationship, it cannot be reality to fiction, but an exaggeration to drive a point how the dimensions work.

i always say not to always take everything you read in fiction, at face value.

But that point doesn't really apply, since no one is the SCP verse could reach such high narratives as SCP-3812. So, there still isn't a debunk fundamental for him, like in Umineko and DC, that reach that ''higher reality realms''. Reality to fiction works otherwise in fictions, since it's imagination and it's theoretically possible to let that happen within the fiction. It doesn't work like real life.

We could probably say agree to disagree at that point.

all i am saying is that dimension levels with a "fiction to reality" difference between each level should have absolutely no accessibility to each other whatsoever. totally inaccessible.

meaning they should never ever facking reach or interact ever. no matter what.

fictional things cannot interact with things above dimensions on their own power no matter what. so the moment SCP has the ability to rise up to higher dimensions, proves those dimensions are not "reality to fiction" times greater than the dimension below to begin with. but a mere exaggeration.

since its proven each dimension is still accessible to the level below it.

Yeah, if they can reach them, I agree with you. Totally. But still no one could enter the narratives SCP-3812 exists on. It's still valid.

So that I can understand that: You think it's an exxaggeration for an infinite higher dimensional space? Then yes, I absolutely agree with you, again.

@yasindermann:

but honestly, i hate using "fiction to reality" difference as it is cumbersome to say. and "infinity" is something that debaters misuse a lot.

my ideal form of higher dimensions is something like this:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/7/72/Inaccessible.gif/revision/latest?cb=20170404010428

The Inaccessible Cardinal is a figure in the theoretical axioms that is so great, no amount of power sets, replacements, or infinities can ever reach it.

like above, no matter what you do, you can never reach that higher dimension;.

no amount of raw power, bullshit hax, or whatever should be able to reach this level of difference between dimensions. nothing ever. there and then, this is my definition of "reality to fiction" difference or "true infinite" difference. unless there is indication of aid from above. and that you, as a being are the creator of this thing and are just visiting the lower dimensions.

literally no fiction has something like this.

@norsewinter: You hate this ''reality to fiction'' difference at that point? Me too, but we should also consider the verse rules, so long as it's theoretically possible. It's basically imagination from the human mind and allows you to do anything, as long as it doesn't contradict possiblilities and impossiblities in real life, like Suggsverse or meta bullshit. It still happens within the fiction.

I just view those narratives as ''infinite higher dimensions'' to make it easy on me, you know?

all im saying, is not to advertise dimensional layers as inaccessible to each other, when they are proven to be accessible, and many times. thats it.

if you are saying something is "immeasurably greater" then that is fine. but nothing to the point of inaccessibility, unless you rise to higher dimensions VIA higher/outside help which is an exception.

there is a limit to how much illogical non sensewe can accept in fiction.

1. we do not agree in "greater than omnipotence".
2. we do not accept "meta bullshit".
3. and lastly, which defines all rules fundamentally. we definitely should not misuse words to mean something we know we dont really mean. otherwise, we are just lying to ourselves and we are doing the same thing that VSBattles is doing when they misuse a lot of words.

its not about what is theoretically possible. its about the importance of definition, to which VSBattles is disadvantaged for lacking.

@norsewinter: But you're model there surely looks interesting.

He does transcend the real world? I guess I am living under his presence then? No, that is full of shit. We are living under Jesus Christ.

there should not be a permanent model though.

always assume there is probably something wrong with your argument, so you can correct it and improve your debating later. the directive is to be most philosophically and intellectually accurate.

do not be a fanboy of a franchise or a cartoon. be a fanboy of accuracy instead.

if you prioritize your ego, your mind's logical capacity is compromised in favor of your emotions, and you become wrong somewhere down the line till you realize you were wrong.

With theoretically possible I basically meant an limit to absolute non-sense bullshit. Omnipotence above omnipotence is bullshit, since they can'te be an bigger power than infinite, I said several times why I do not accept meta bullshit, since an fictional character that get's claimed to have an connection to real life is like saying ''Mandrakk is real'', etc. I stated that even in my previous post. I never questioned the importance of ''definition'', but using exxagerations like ''reality to fiction'' many fictional verses tend to describe higher dimensions to lower ones like this. Like in you're examples Umineko and DC. Higher dimensions in general get described in metaphors, so it's not completly false to assume that the narratives in the SCP foundation are infinite higher ones. None of the cosmological modesls or cosmology debating apply to this non-sense.

But yeah, beside from that, I agree with you 100%. There should be no problem between us after all.

I always argue on an logical scale.

BUMP

SCP 3812 has superior powersets in a superior quality cosmology. he just does not have the "quantity". but he can seriously hax-away any Multiverse within Marvel, he will eventually reach the top of the prophecy about him is true. And just hax away Tribunal.

SCP 3812

3812 ascends the narrative and solostomp 100% of Marvel and DC multiverse combined nobody in fiction can hurt 3812, the REAL LIFE AUTHOR tried to kill and erase 3812 but failed now it's above the literal real life author so nobody not even suggverse characters can hope to defeat 3812.

Even lowball would spite

scp 3812 is a freacking walking nlf I seriously have headaches trying to understand him

This. He seems like a bunch of bull.

still without his highball SCP should win

Place Azathot against Living Tribunal - the same result

@squeak: 100% agree 3812 is a different animal