In terms of pure physical power, he could possibly clear, but since he has no feats against magnetism he most likely stops at Pyrrha if she uses her powers early. Although he may could overpower it with his strength
@sirfizzwhizz: Carbon fiber cant be affected by magnetism. Raiden's sheer strength can break out of it say it works and speed to blitz. But then if this is mgs4 so I am not that certain.
@rac95: His mgs4 version could fight Qrow actually when we regard what he did in Mgs4 and not in Rising. He got an insane boost in Rising in his mgs4 body so I would consider that upgraded but not counted here.
@red_ruby_petal: As far as I know his body isn't pure carbon fiber, but also part metal (although not to the degree of Penny), that's why I mentioned that he could possibly clear in terms of physical abilities and may overpower magnetism.
Fact is that he only gets a real feat against an enemy who uses similar powers to Pyrrha in his new body in MGR.
@sirfizzwhizz: Carbon fiber cant be affected by magnetism. Raiden's sheer strength can break out of it say it works and speed to blitz. But then if this is mgs4 so I am not that certain.
As said, in MGS4 he was not made of Carbon Fiber. That was a upgrade in MGR by the doctor. Also the HF Blade is metal too.
MGS4 Raiden is not that fast as his MGR self either. He has no feats to say he is outside one feat. Otherwise he is just Vamp speed which is good, but not outside RWBY characters speed.
I'm not caught up on RWBY, but I think Ruby vs MGS4 Raiden would be a good fight. I think I'd favor Raiden based on where I'm at in RWBY, but I hear she gets power amps or something later, or at least that's how it's described on the battle forums. If they are as powerful as people have made them out to be, she should likely win. But I have no idea since I haven't seen it personally yet.
@tparks: Ruby has really good high end feats but then inconsistencies get her. Mgs4 Raiden is very likely to beat Ruby because of how damn durable he is and can beat her in combat experience and skill over combat speed which I think Ruby trumps Raiden at and most specially travel speed due to her semblance. She was able to use her semblance in the midst of battle that makes her near hypersonic. Raiden is too damn durable though. Here is something I would like to know from you though. Do you think Raiden's mgs4 body is affected by magnetism or not?
@thestarwarsguy: How is she above Mercury? She had no chance of taking down Full Maiden Cinder who was being smug even after she just defeated the strongest fighter in Remnant, Ozpin. Mercury was one of the three people we know to have defeated a Maiden then causing them to die / go into comatose. Mercury is faster, stronger, and more skilled than Pyrrha so how is she stronger than him?
I see no reason to assume Magnetism would work on Raiden his Mgs4 body is artificial muscle and it never goes into great detail of what it's made of even when you got it's DLC from Rising it just says that it is severely obsolete compared to the rising tech era that being said he should get to Qrow and beat him for round 1 round two is idk Mgs4 Raiden had beyond ridiculous damage Soak i couldn't even begin to think of how many times they would need to hit him to drop him.
@asianantics: The Maiden they fought hardly had any skill rather they just had overwhelming power and there is no reason to believe Mercury was even as strong as Cinder.
@red_ruby_petal: He isn't as strong as Pre-Maiden Cinder, yes. Yet he still dealt hard hits to Amber and went through her giant fire burst then kicking her to the ground. He dodged lightning with as much effort as he put into the Coco/Yatsuhashi fight, being nothing. Lightning is the fastest thing in the entire RWBY show we've seen and Mercury's faster than it. Producing torrents of lightning is equally impressive to Cinder's fire beam that she failed to break Ozpin's shield with. And your right, Full Maiden Cinder is stronger than Amber but consider the circumstances for a second. One just defeated the strongest thing alive and then fought a first year student who doesn't hold a candle to either herself or the person she beat. She has absolutely no reason to not be able to kill the first year student 100 times over. The other's life is being threatened by the best support we've seen in RWBY, an insanely skilled young assassin, and one of Salem's horsemen. She has many factors that would play into her overcoming these obstacles.
Cinder wouldn't of been able to take down a Maiden by herself. That's why she attempted to hire an assassin. When she saw Mercury kill the would-be assassin that was good enough to warrant himself on Cinder's list, she wanted Mercury right on the spot. She hired Emerald to mess with Amber's head to make it easier for herself and her assassin. Pyrrha is not as strong as Mercury. She isn't as strong as Pre-Maiden Cinder. So in turn, she would have a 0% chance at taking Cinder out, even if she was heavily weakened and not trying.
@sirfizzwhizz: I think it is mentioned in MGS 4 that his muscle tissue got repkaced with something along those lines
I never seen that. Can you find it? He has a artificial body, but what it is made off is never mention.
I watched the cutscenes from MGS 4 again, it wasn't actually his body that was mentioned, but only his "white blood" which is basically like some superjuice that has to be dialysed on a regular basis. It was mentioned in the MGS 4 database however that his body is enhanced by artificial muscles and metals
@rac95: I am most certain the metal parts would be something like the voice box or accessories and some armor plates. It cant be part of his insides or muscles. Metal doesnt work well with blood.
@red_ruby_petal: Technically blood works with metal, but you are right, nearly all metals are deadly in the bloodstream. The metal parts are listed as parts of the body, so they mean most likely parts of that plates on his body
Although his blood is probably not really comparable to human blood, considering that nearly every part of him is artificial
@asianantics: You’re really highballing his feats. Yes, he took on a Maiden, but a Maiden dealing with three people at once. Tanking Ambers fire isn’t that impressive considering he hid behind his metallic legs and Pyrrha herself tanked Cinders fire attacks. Dodging lightning was impressive, but he wasn’t the only one targeted, giving him more, though not much more, time to move. Mercury did nothing to contribute anything but a brief distraction to get the heat of Emerald when needed and for Cinder if Emerald wasn’t there to do what she needed to.
Pyrrha on the other hand faced a full-powered Maiden alone, even if said Maiden was only toying with her. Put Mercury in Pyrrhas situation and he would go down worse than she would. Unlike his fight with Amber, Pyrrha had no prep, no help, and actually had some surprises that cinder had to actually put effort in discarding. This is also done with someone with not a hint of metal on them to control. Had Cinder any metal on her, she would have a much harder time against Pyrrha do to the way Pyrrha uses her semblance.
@thestarwarsguy: For who Mercury or Raiden? If you're talking about Mercury, I didn't debate she wouldn't beat him, I said that he was better. Put them against the same opponent and 9/10 Mercury would do better. He is better in every aspect except for Semblance, only because we don't know what his is yet. If you're talking about Raiden, I don't think she can move him around. Isn't Raiden made from Carbon Fiber? A substance that Polarity can't control. If he's just metal, then shouldn't Pyrrha be the highest on the list? She could just ragdoll him around and Raiden wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Because if you think she's better than Mercury then it would make sense that she's higher than him yet lower than Winter. If you think she's better than Mercury against Raiden, then she'd also be better than everyone else. So which one is it?
You’re really highballing his feats. Yes, he took on a Maiden, but a Maiden dealing with three people at once
I addressed that.
Tanking Ambers fire isn’t that impressive considering he hid behind his metallic legs and Pyrrha herself tanked Cinders fire attacks
Yes it is. He used his weapon to protect himself, how is that considered unimpressive? Does that also mean Pyrrha pin-pointing Cinder's arrow with her shield a non-note-worthy feat? Mercury went through a large burst of fire and continued to power through it for 5 seconds straight and then kicked Amber several feat backwards onto the ground which opened her up to another attack. Pyrrha didn't tank a blast anywhere as strong as the one Mercury did. Every single strike Cinder hit Pyrrha with visibly hurt the student where as Pyrrha surprised Cinder twice and then was handily taken care of afterwards. The closest she got to tanking a fire blast was a line of fire that sent she couldn't manage to fully block and was knocked away from the actual damage.
Dodging lightning was impressive, but he wasn’t the only one targeted, giving him more, though not much more, time to move.
Dodging lightning was the most impressive feat in RWBY. It's also the fastest we've ever seen anyone move in the show and react accordingly too. She was very clearly targeting him. She was visibly focusing the better fighter and firing lightning bolts from the sky towards him. Emerald was the one who got the free pass, not Mercury.
Mercury did nothing to contribute anything but a brief distraction to get the heat of Emerald when needed and for Cinder if Emerald wasn’t there to do what she needed to.
So he was doing the most work? What you're saying is that Mercury has to take care of Emerald because she can't do it herself and protect Cinder because Emerald can't do the job she was hired to do. Support. Mercury landed just as many hits on Amber as Cinder who picked up the pieces after he and Emerald were doing all the work. Cinder just broke Amber's already damaged aura and landed the killing blow when her back was turned. On the one on one's Mercury can manage to hit Amber while Cinder couldn't even when having the jump on her. I don't see how he did "nothing to contribute anything"
Pyrrha on the other hand faced a full-powered Maiden alone, even if said Maiden was only toying with her.
Yes, a Maiden that was toying with her. While Mercury's Maiden was clearly trying to murder him.
Put Mercury in Pyrrhas situation and he would go down worse than she would.
Really? I'd argue that a stronger, faster, more skilled fighter would do better in a one on one. Hmm. And Pyrrha's only small victories were through surprise and the luck of her environmental surroundings. Have Pyrrha in one room with Cinder without all that metal that's absolutely everywhere and you'll see very different results. Because what exactly did Pyrrha do in that fight? She dodged and evaded. She blocked two strong attacks from an already weakened foe and landed 2 meaningful hits and a throw. All hits being shrugged off casually.
Unlike his fight with Amber, Pyrrha had no prep, no help, and actually had some surprises that cinder had to actually put effort in discarding.
You wouldn't say Mercury dodging lightning was surprising? Or shrugging off a giant fire burst of damage that would kill anyone on her team? Mercury had help because his enemy was actually trying to murder him with all her strength. And what prep? The plan was for Emerald to open up, Mercury come in and save her, and Cinder to finish Amber off. They didn't have prior knowledge, specific equipment, or any buffs going into it. Just a vague plan. And Cinder didn't have to put effort into anything. She had a smirk on the entire fight that we know who she learned from, and put zero effort into any attack. The most effort she put into anything was repelling Pyrrha's most impressive feat in the fight which resulted in Pyrrha losing all of her aura, effectively winning Cinder the fight.
This is also done with someone with not a hint of metal on them to control. Had Cinder any metal on her, she would have a much harder time against Pyrrha do to the way Pyrrha uses her semblance.
Had Pyrrha not have the environmental advantage, we wouldn't be having this debate at all.
@tparks: Ruby has really good high end feats but then inconsistencies get her. Mgs4 Raiden is very likely to beat Ruby because of how damn durable he is and can beat her in combat experience and skill over combat speed which I think Ruby trumps Raiden at and most specially travel speed due to her semblance. She was able to use her semblance in the midst of battle that makes her near hypersonic. Raiden is too damn durable though. Here is something I would like to know from you though. Do you think Raiden's mgs4 body is affected by magnetism or not?
Mgs4 Raiden has some weird polarity reversing shit going on with him though, otherwise the knives that he shot out of his body wouldn't have spun around and stabbed Vamp.
@asianantics: I cannot doubt you tbh. In fact it was evident mercury only goes by the plan in his fights and if he wanted to beat Yang he could. With his fight against Phyrra it showed he was already a more formiddable fighter.
@asianantics: To keep things short, and so that my phone doesn’t irritatingly erase my comment again, I will condense my points as best I can, but note I did read your comment.
1) Mercury’s part of the plan was seemingly to back-up Emerald. That would mean he was hanging back while Enerald was doing most of the distracting. Cinder actually got the most shots. The two of them got one each, Cinder got three shots, the second being what broke her aura.
2) Pyrrha had better durability feats against a Maiden because unlike Mercury, she took fire hits, point-blank, multiple times, whereas Mercury blocked her fire with his knees, negating most of the fire.
3) Considering Cinders lines in-between flashbacks with the black screens, I’d say they had been planning this, or she was planning this, from the start. A plan is what qualifies as prep.
4) If you look closely at the scene where he dodges multiple bolts of lightning, you can see Emerald in the middle of the battlefield dodging bolts herself, therefore Emerald did not get any passes against Amber.
5) Red Ruby Petal makes a good point about Mercury following Cinders plans, which could infer there is much more to him than the restrictions Cinder put for the plans. With that said, we can’t exactly say what he is truly capable of if he hasn’t shown it, whether it’s saying he can’t do anymore or he has much more to show. And though he didn’t try too hard against Pyrrha, there isn’t any guarantee he would’ve won against a more serious Pyrrha. I’m not saying she wasn’t taking him seriously, but Pyrrha wasn’t out for blood in that fight against Mercury because it was a sparring match in school, not to mention the big advantage over his “metallic weaponry”.
@thestarwarsguy: Except that's not the conversation. This is about placements on the gauntlet. Not 'This person can beat that person because of a clear advantage that specific person has over them' By that logic Ruby and Weiss also can beat Mercury. And Blake can beat Sun. It doesn't matter that Pyrrha can beat him because of her OP Semblance, it matters who's more of a threat to Raiden / who's a better fighter. Because both of those things are Mercury.
@pyrofn: Yeah the phone problem has happened to me before. I only really use it on the go or when my PC's off.
Mercury’s part of the plan was seemingly to back-up Emerald. That would mean he was hanging back while Enerald was doing most of the distracting. Cinder actually got the most shots. The two of them got one each, Cinder got three shots, the second being what broke her aura.
He still had to get in their and pull weight though. They even did an equal amount of distracting. Mercury's was through fighting Amber directly and Emerald's was through her illusions.
Mercury hit her twice. Once with the kick through the fire and the other when all three are going against Amber in various one on one's. Mercury was the only one out of the 3 to pull off a hit. Mercury got 2. Cinder got the surprise attack that knocked Amber out of the air and the explosion that broke Amber's aura. Then the fight was over. Amber got the gust of wind and two lightning bolts. She only got shot when her back was turned and her weapon was raised.
Pyrrha had better durability feats against a Maiden because unlike Mercury, she took fire hits, point-blank, multiple times, whereas Mercury blocked her fire with his knees, negating most of the fire.
Which is more impressive. His aura never broke through the fight and he blocked / dodged the hardest of Amber's attacks. Him using his legs are more impressive than Pyrrha not being able to defend herself and getting knocked around. She got rocked by a simple elbow that sent her flying across half the room. Mercury's worst durability showing is getting point blank lightning bolted after a very serious fight and got up smugly afterwards. More impressive than the Cinder's constant fire usage.
Considering Cinders lines in-between flashbacks with the black screens, I’d say they had been planning this, or she was planning this, from the start. A plan is what qualifies as prep.
A dangerous plan that could've gotten Emerald killed. Not the best prep out there.
If you look closely at the scene where he dodges multiple bolts of lightning, you can see Emerald in the middle of the battlefield dodging bolts herself, therefore Emerald did not get any passes against Amber.
She is also dodging bolts of lightning yes, but you said "Dodging lightning was impressive, but he wasn’t the only one targeted, giving him more, though not much more, time to move." yet she was clearly focusing him instead of Emerald meaning he wouldn't of gotten any more time to move than if he was soloing her.
Red Ruby Petal makes a good point about Mercury following Cinders plans, which could infer there is much more to him than the restrictions Cinder put for the plans. With that said, we can’t exactly say what he is truly capable of if he hasn’t shown it, whether it’s saying he can’t do anymore or he has much more to show. And though he didn’t try too hard against Pyrrha, there isn’t any guarantee he would’ve won against a more serious Pyrrha. I’m not saying she wasn’t taking him seriously, but Pyrrha wasn’t out for blood in that fight against Mercury because it was a sparring match in school, not to mention the big advantage over his “metallic weaponry”.
The plan restrictions are fine but I'm not too sure about it. It is more praise for Mercury but it feels like it isn't warranted. If Mercury got restrictions than you'd think Emerald would too but it seemed like she was very likely going to die at the end of the fight until Cinder saved her.
He didn't just not 'try too hard' against Pyrrha, he didn't try at all. He looks at her with a smug "Hmm" face as if he's impressed and then disarms her twice in less than 10 seconds. He slightly turned up the pace and Pyrrha couldn't take it. Also she seemed to be pretty serious against Team CRDL, granted it could be because they were bullying Jaune, Velvet, etc. but then she has to fight Mercury who's stronger than the entirety of Team CRDL by just landing shots against Pyrrha in the opening moments, something none of them could manage to do the whole fight. She wasn't out for blood but she was taking it seriously which is more than Mercury did the whole fight.
Also, not debating who'd win in a fight, I'm debating who's better. The only other person she could potentially stomp as hard as she could potentially stomp Mercury would be Ironwood. Assuming his legs/weapons are apart of his aura, then Pyrrha might not be able to move them around. After all, she moved his legs with the bullets holstered on them, not his actual legs, evident by the fact she wasn't like "OH. WOW. okay, so you're a cripple."
Mercury is better than all of the students but that doesn't mean he couldn't lose to some of them (I know Neo isn't a student but this was the best quality smug face I could find). He's definitely better but that doesn't mean he wouldn't lose to the one person that has his only weakness (potentially).
@thestarwarsguy: Except that's not the conversation. This is about placements on the gauntlet. Not 'This person can beat that person because of a clear advantage that specific person has over them' By that logic Ruby and Weiss also can beat Mercury. And Blake can beat Sun. It doesn't matter that Pyrrha can beat him because of her OP Semblance, it matters who's more of a threat to Raiden / who's a better fighter. Because both of those things are Mercury.
If It's Who Has A Higher Chance Of Winning It's Pyrrah Bc Of Her Semblance And The Fact That Raiden's A Cyborg so yeah...
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