Muhammad Ali vs. Mike Tyson

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#1 Edited by BulletTimer (1090 posts) - - Show Bio

Muhammad Ali

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Mike Tyson

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Rounds

Round 1:

  • Boxing match, standard rules (MoQ), 12 rounds
  • 16 oz gloves
  • Both get to watch videos of the other fighting beforehand

Round 2:

  • Street fight, no rules, to the death or KO (whichever comes first)
  • No gloves
  • No prep for either

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by Killerwasp (17583 posts) - - Show Bio

Street fights depends on the conditions and where, and also who throws the first punch.

Boxing if it stays long distance punching I see Ali winning, if its a close in kind of fight Mike.

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#3 Edited by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Ali. 8/10.

Round 2: Since Tyson is more of street fighter than Ali, I can see him taking afew more wins.. MAYBE. Ali still takes the majority though.

Think this has been done already.

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#4 Edited by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the biggest questions in fighting, really hard to say.

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#5 Posted by BulletTimer (1090 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7 said:

Round 1: Ali. 8/10.

Round 2: Since Tyson is more of street fighter than Ali, I can see him taking afew more wins.. MAYBE. Ali still takes the majority though.

Think this has been done already.

Not on ComicVine, it seems

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#6 Edited by Jkutz (649 posts) - - Show Bio

Ali was able to damage SA Superman in a boxing match, Ali Destroys.....

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(This is obviously a joke...maybe ;) )

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#7 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this should be in off topic.....

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#8 Edited by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullettimer: Well, people who know boxing obviously know that a fighter like Tyson isn't anything new to Ali.

The argument made for Tyson is simply, getting in close and using is raw striking power. Ali has been in close situations before.. he's not a new jack in boxing lol.

Ali has an advantage over Tyson (Tyson has advantages as well) that makes him a ring general in a sense.

When you add on Ali's height, speed, skill gap, and ability to get in an opponents head.. Ali is just as dangerous, if not more than Tyson.

With those advantages, experience, and rules placed.. Ali is bound to win a lot more than Tyson.

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#9 Posted by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio

Ali both rounds. Stomps round 1, has slight difficulty round 2.

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#10 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis said:

One of the biggest questions in fighting, really hard to say.

Not really. Most Boxing fans, should decipher that Ali stomps Tyson in a Boxing match.

Not only is there a massive difference in the level of competition (Ali's was far superior; and some of his opponents would roast Tyson) but Tyson's style will not work too good against Ali's.

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#11 Posted by TheBournePoster (2988 posts) - - Show Bio

Ali in a boxing match, Tyson in a street fight.

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#12 Posted by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Tyson both rounds. Ali never went against somebody with the speed and power that Tyson has.If this is Tyson without Cus D'amato then Ali wins round 1.

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#13 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@tragic_johnson said:

Tyson both rounds. Ali never went against somebody with the speed and power that Tyson has.If this is Tyson without Cus D'amato then Ali wins round 1.

Yeah, no.

None of Tyson's competition was near to the level of Ali's, Tyson's opposition was generally lackluster and the only notable ATG's he fought, he lost: not to mention Ali fought harder-hitters than Tyson (Liston, Foreman and Shavers). In addition to this, Ali was actually faster than Tyson in both combination speed and footwork.

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#14 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: nah Tyson was fast too and had defense people just don't acknowledge it as much as they do his punching power, Ali lost to Frazier who's base style was power punching.

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#15 Posted by LuckyStrike (719 posts) - - Show Bio

Tyson both rounds. Ali never went against somebody with the speed and power that Tyson has.If this is Tyson without Cus D'amato then Ali wins round 1.

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#16 Posted by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Who said Tyson had greater competition? Ali was not faster than Mike in anything. Joe Frazier gave Ali hard times despite being slower, weaker, and having shorter arms than Tyson. Foreman and Shavers never picked apart guarded opponents like Mike due to their height.

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#17 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: nah Tyson was fast too and had defense people just don't acknowledge it as much as they do his punching power, Ali lost to Frazier who's base style was power punching.

I'm aware of Tyson's Peek-A-Boo defense but he beat nobody worth of note; atleast in contrast to Ali's competition. The great fighters Tyson did fight (Holifield and Lewis), he lost.

Tyson and Frazier are not that similar, though it's a misconception. Tyson was an aggressive counter-puncher but by 6 rounds he gassed out. Frazier was a slower pressure-fighter who wore down his opponents over 15 rounds, constantly bobbing and weaving, heavily working the body. He took extreme amounts of punishment and never got tired, even in the 15th round, he was still going. By contrast, Tyson took people out early.

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#18 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio
@tragic_johnson said:

@frozen: Who said Tyson had greater competition? Ali was not faster than Mike in anything. Joe Frazier gave Ali hard times despite being slower, weaker, and having shorter arms than Tyson. Foreman and Shavers never picked apart guarded opponents like Mike due to their height.

  • Ali is faster than Mike. Where did you get the idea that he is not? What nonsense. He is much faster in his foot-work. In terms of combination punching, he has thrown 11 punches in 21 seconds
  • Frazier had longer arms than Tyson by 2 inches (Tyson 71'' and Frazier 73''). He not only had a much stronger chin but had FAR more stamina
  • Foreman and Shavers, again hit harder than Tyson, that was my only point

Tyson was never tested against a truly great opponent. Or whenever he was, he lost. But excuses for Tyson, he was 'past his prime' --- nonetheless, Ali's record is more reliable as an ATG.

@luckystrike said:

@tragic_johnson said:

Tyson both rounds. Ali never went against somebody with the speed and power that Tyson has.If this is Tyson without Cus D'amato then Ali wins round 1.

There is little actual evidence to suggest Tyson would defeat a prime Ali.

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#19 Posted by MErulezall (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the biggest questions in fighting, really hard to say.

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#20 Posted by i_like_swords (26359 posts) - - Show Bio

Ali takes the boxing round since he's pretty well suited to outlasting and outboxing Tyson, but I believe street fighting is more Tyson's forte, as street fights tend to end with a knockout after only a brief amount of fighting most of the time (Tyson's speciality), and Tyson has way more real street fighting experience than Ali from what I know.

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#21 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis said:

One of the biggest questions in fighting, really hard to say.

Correction. This is one of the most popular questions. I can think of a dozen better Heavyweight matches than Tyson vs Ali.

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#22 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio
@i_like_swords said:

Ali takes the boxing round since he's pretty well suited to outlasting and outboxing Tyson, but I believe street fighting is more Tyson's forte, as street fights tend to end with a knockout after only a brief amount of fighting most of the time (Tyson's speciality), and Tyson has way more real street fighting experience than Ali from what I know.

I agree.

Also, Tyson in his prime struggled with a Muhammad Ali wannabe (James Tillis).

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#23 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Holyfield a great fighter? Come on man, didn't these fights happen after he'd been in prison past his prime?

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#24 Posted by TopTierGoat (372 posts) - - Show Bio

He didnt get to fight Holifield or Lewis till well past his prime. If MIke didnt get fucked over by Don King, and kept his true people in his life/corner, then this would be a completely different debate. Mike would have gone down as the greatest, and it wouldnt have been close.

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#25 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis: You could make the argument that Tyson was past his prime, it's more than valid. But that does not change the fact that Tyson was still the favorite to win.

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#26 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@toptiergoat: Actually I still think Lewis can beat Prime Tyson.

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#27 Edited by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: It's as you said, a lot of Ali's opponents would beat Tyson.

To add, Tyson may be a monster no doubt, but Ali was just a more refined warrior. Tyson may have had speed, strength and defense (Ali did as well especially for his class) but Ali had, Style, a great chin as well, a good heart (health),psychology, and stamina/endurance more than Tyson.

Plus it's about who you fought as well. Ali has lost against a lot of respectable people who would best Tyson in a fight or atleast go 10 or more rounds with Tyson.

Also Tyson slows down late. That way seem like an advantage but when fighting someone like Ali, it will most likely go against him in fight like this.. considering Ali's psychology and stamina.

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#28 Posted by comic_book_fan (11998 posts) - - Show Bio

tyson

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#29 Posted by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Head movement, explosiveness, and gap closing is the speed i am talking about

I was wrong on that. some have Tyson listed at 72' reach but an inch wouldn't matter. Frazier had better stamina but chin is debatable. Tyson has took shots from Berbick and Lewis and usually loses from exhaustion in later rounds.His last 2 fights have been the only time he was finished within the first 6 rounds

How do Foreman and Shavers hit harder?Their win to KO % isn't as good and don't have as many first round KO's.They also lose the eye test if you were talking about highlight reels.Public perception they also lose.

Tyson is a roided up version of Frazier.

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#30 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@tragic_johnson: Speed is a very broad term. In head movement and gap closing, Tyson was faster but that was because he needed to be. Ali did not need this because he had an 80 inch reach. Instead, he had a razor fast stinging jab and fought with range. In terms of speed, his foot-work makes Tyson look primitive. Hand-speed is pretty close but Ali would land more frequently with his shots.

Tyson was most definitely 71'' range, with a few listing 72''. Anyway, Tyson did have a strong chin but Frazier was definitely the tougher fighter. Never mind the fact that he fought blind in one eye throughout much of his career: the man could throw out combinations in the 15th round. Tyson gassed out in later rounds, he only has a few knockouts past round 6/7 because by those rounds, he has lost ALOT of his speed and explosiveness. The difference in stamina is because they fight differently:

  • Frazier wears his opponents down early, knocks them out late
  • Tyson tries to blow them out early, conserves energy less

Frazier was a pressure-fighting swarmer. Tyson flat out admitted in his auto-biography that he is confused why people think of him as a swarmer - he isn't, he states himself that he's an aggressive counter-puncher and that is evidenced by his knockout montages.

Huh? Foreman clearly hit harder than Tyson. Even Evander Holyfield, who fought Tyson, Lewis and Foreman said Foreman (old) hit the hardest. Tyson ducked old George Foreman, a young George Foreman completely rail-roaded Joe Frazier twice and beat down some of the greatest fighters in history, Tyson did not. Foreman proved his punching power against elite competition. Shavers also hit harder than Foreman, and that is evidenced by the fighters who fought both (Ali, Norton, etc) all confirming it.

''Public perception''? That means nothing. And public perception wise, Foreman stomps Tyson. Most polls show that, and Tyson's short-in fighting style cannot beat Foreman's big, slugging style.

Yeah, no. Frazier > Tyson.

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#32 Posted by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Using Holyfield as the meter is wrong since Mike fought him past his "prime". When was Mike afraid of Foreman? You say public perception means nothing and then proceed to talk about a public poll. It was hard to get a match against Tyson because of the intimidation. Grown men were shaking in the corner before the fight even started. Foreman has brute strength over him but not punching power.

Frazier only has stamina over him....nothing else

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#33 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

Using Holyfield as the meter is wrong since Mike fought him past his "prime". When was Mike afraid of Foreman? You say public perception means nothing and then proceed to talk about a public poll. It was hard to get a match against Tyson because of the intimidation. Grown men were shaking in the corner before the fight even started. Foreman has brute strength over him but not punching power.

Frazier only has stamina over him....nothing else

1. Holyfield is not a 'meter' --- I simply said Tyson fought two great fighters in their prime, Holyfield and Lewis. He lost against both. Yes, Tyson was past his prime - but that does not change the fact that Tyson was still a heavy favorite.

2. Mike ducked Foreman, he had the chance to fight him but wanted no part of him. Now you could say the evidence for this is weak, so fair enough. But even then, fighters like Holyfield attributed Foreman hitting harder. If Mike being past his prime is a meter, then so is Foreman. Foreman was 41 when he fought Holyfield.

3. Grown men were terrified of Foreman. Grown men were terrified of Liston. Muhammad Ali was not, he beat them both and both of these fighters used intimidation as their driving force.

4. Intimidation is not why it was a hard match to get Tyson, where is the evidence for that?

Frazier also fought...much better competition

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#34 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Ali was talking sh!t to drive those fighters crazy and sloppy, I remember some guy talked sh!t about Mike's wife, typical Tyson 1st round KOed him. Tyson's competition included Olympic champion Spinks and there were guys tried to use the reach advantage, sure not in Ali's level but you see why this is tough to call.

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#35 Posted by Bo88gdan (5454 posts) - - Show Bio

Mike Tyson both rounds

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#36 Posted by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Favorite or not, Tyson admitted that he was fighting for the money at that point. Rooney even said Mike stopped using set up jabs and tried to muscle his way after Cus died. I don't think of "Don King" Tyson for these battles.

2.It honestly wouldn't make sense that Tyson wouldn't fight him. Tyson loved Ali and i believe he wanted to KO Larry Holmes for finishing Ali. Most of Tyson's power came from technique so i believe Foreman did hit harder than Tyson at that point. I don't think he did in their primes though. Looking at stats it shows Tyson ended more fights with KO(%) and finished them earlier. I can show qoutes of people saying Michael Jordan isn't the greatest basketball player but that doesn't mean they are right.

3. Not at the level that Tyson had it at. Mike didn't say a word or look at you but just paced until the fight starts and leaves right after. Ali wouldn't be scared though.

4. It was in his biography movie "Tyson". His trainer said it was hard to get a match because nobody wanted to fight him.

If Frazier can succeed then so can Tyson. What Tyson lacks in stamina he makes up for in elusiveness, power , speed and coaching.

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#37 Posted by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: No wait, was that a 6 round Ko? Can't remember.

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#38 Edited by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

If X can beat Y than that means X can beat Z is flawed.

What Tyson lacks is what Ali has more of. A fighter like Tyson will not be anything new to Ali. Ali beat Foreman and Foreman beat Frazier.. so "if Frazier can do it then Tyson can" isn't a valid reason.

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#39 Edited by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7: A fighter like Ali isn't new to Tyson either.

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#40 Posted by SheenLantern (7619 posts) - - Show Bio

Ali uses his reach and speed to pick away at Tyson while keeping him at bay, he wears him down over the course of the fight en route to a late stoppage or lopsided decision.

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#41 Edited by TraGiC_JoHNSoN (661 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7: If it's the same sport and similar skill set then why not? You see people comparing Jordan and Kobe all the time. And what Ali lacks is what Tyson has more of. Ali never faced anyone with the power/speed combination let alone the elusiveness.

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#42 Edited by comic_book_fan (11998 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: yes he would ali struggled with forman's power tyson is a much faster and more ruthless forman

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#43 Edited by SheenLantern (7619 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan said:

@frozen: yes he would ali struggled with forman's power

He didn't struggle with Foreman's power at all. A prime Foreman I'll remind you, as opposed to the post-prime Foreman that Tyson ducked. He didn't struggle with Sonny Liston's or Earnie Shavers' power either, who both hit much harder than Tyson.

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#44 Edited by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

@tragic_johnson: @dimitridkatsis: Yea, but Tysons style is nothing fancy or uncommon compared to Ali's.

Same sport different players. Their differences is what makes one better than the other. What Tyson lacks is what makes this fight difficult for him. Ali has always faces people who strike harder than him.

He hasn't faced anyone with power like Tyson O.o.. riiiigghhhhht. Speed and elusiveness I understand, but power? That's a stretch.

Still it's not like Ali doesn't have speed or power himself. Ali has everything he needs to go multiple rounds more than Tyson.. this includes experience with power strikers. A fight with Ali and Tyson would last atleast 10 rounds. Tyson is the type to slow down if the match carried on, and it would. Ali has the stamina to go that distance. I'm not saying this would be a stomp, but in the end Ali has the superior skill/style, experience, and health to beat Tyson in a regular boxing match.

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#45 Edited by dimitridkatsis (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7: Not sure Frazier or Foreman hit harder either, Tyson KOed a lot of folks with left or right very fast.

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#46 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis said:

@dbvse7: A fighter like Ali isn't new to Tyson either.

Uh, yeah he is. Mike Tyson in his prime struggled with a Muhammad Ali wannabe that is James Tillis. Tyson has beaten nobody on Ali's caliber.

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#47 Posted by SheenLantern (7619 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis: Laughable, Frazier's left hook is the best in heavyweight history with Gerry Cooney in a distant second. And Foreman is quite possibly the hardest hitting man to ever have lived. If it's not him it's Earnie Shavers, depending on how reliable you see the word of Ron Lyle and Larry Holmes to be.

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#48 Posted by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbvse7: Not sure Frazier or Foreman hit harder either, Tyson KOed a lot of folks with left or right very fast.

Sonny Liston, George Foreman and Earnie Shavers all hit harder than Tyson. The former two, would eat Tyson for breakfast. They had better knockout results against tougher opposition.

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#49 Posted by DBVSE7 (8197 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimitridkatsis: I'd agree with Frazier.. but Young Foreman had as much power as Mike Tyson. Some have argued stronger.

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#50 Edited by Frozen (21137 posts) - - Show Bio
@dbvse7 said:

@dimitridkatsis: I'd agree with Frazier.. but Young Foreman had as much power as Mike Tyson. Some have argued stronger.

Foreman would pummel Mike Tyson so hard. So would Sonny Liston.

Mike Tyson's short, in-fighting style would be trash against George Foreman. Same with Liston. Those type of fighters (Liston / Foreman) are style perfect against fighters like Tyson. Tyson can't bully them.

Old Foreman would probably beat Mike too.