Ms. Marvel and Storm vs Wonder Woman

@butterflykyss: Do you really think that supersonic speed is enough to keep up with Wonder Woman? I have more feats of Storm being tagged than failing to tag characters. So your excuse of Storm not performing that well against villains who aren't that fast kind of falls flat.

no I've never said that at all. I've argued her power operate faster than WW can blitz her. and seeing she has been tanked by weather from Ocean master and Major Disaster there is no reason to believe storm couldn't do the same as well as attack her internally.

@butterflykyss: Her powers do activate fast, but Storm herself needs to be fast enough reflex/combat speed wise in order to think to activate them. She has street level speed which isn't even remotely enough. Wonder Woman will be nothing but a blur to her and if she decides to blitz Storm won't even know what happened.

A street leveler can't blitz while fighting and can't break the sound barrier so you can stop there.

@butterflykyss: You think a street leveler can't operate at faster than sound speeds?

@noone1996: I don't know of any. and storm isn't a street leveler so I'm not why any of this is relevant.

actually I do know a few street levelers none can break speed of sound barrier might I add:

Spider-Man

like cage

iron man without his suit to name a few

@butterflykyss: Physically, she's a street leveler. Her durability, her speed, her strength, her skill is all comparable to an extremely low level street leveler. All of those characters don't have supersonic travel speed, but reflex/combat speed wise Spider-Man has moved WAY faster than the speed of sound (which is 767.2 mph):

That bullet was traveling at 2727.2 miles per hour. which is a lot faster than sound. He wasn't very far away either. He's got tons of feats like these. Storm never operates at these types of speeds and Wonder Woman was probably doing this stuff as a pre-teen.

@noone1996 said:

@butterflykyss: Physically, she's a street leveler. Her durability, her speed, her strength, her skill is all comparable to an extremely low level street leveler. All of those characters don't have supersonic travel speed, but reflex/combat speed wise Spider-Man has moved WAY faster than the speed of sound (which is 767.2 mph):

That bullet was traveling at 2727.2 miles per hour. which is a lot faster than sound. He wasn't very far away either. He's got tons of feats like these. Storm never operates at these types of speeds and Wonder Woman was probably doing this stuff as a pre-teen.

So would you say if you can block something moving that fast at point blank range that would be just as impressive??

Gallery

thanks for making my point for me...

Wonder Woman for the epic win.

@butterflykyss: How is that a speed feat when it shows her power active before they fired?

@jrupert1: because she able up quickly direct her winds to save her. Anyways why is this even being used. Diana is far faster

@butterflykyss: Her weather was already active before the bullets were fired. Even if I take that feat at face value, that's still just bullet timing which street levelers do casually. Still only supersonic.

@noone1996: storm has some MHS-MHS+ reaction and flight feats.

Also I don’t know why speed is being debated. WW not even at full speed can blitz some of marvels fastest women/men. Storm speed at best is MHS-MHS+ once again I’m stretching. Unless her lightning gives her the speed to match Sub-Relativistic and above, she’s getting blitzed. She might only stand a chance if there was prep because she has to power to contend with Diana just lack the stacks.

@kasya_carey: How on Earth does she have massively hypersonic combat speed feats? Come on now.

@noone1996: @kasya_carey: Storm does NOT have Hypersonic Combat Speed. -_- She has Hypersonic Flight Speed.

@mooty_pass: she doesn’t... She’s MHS via lightning.

@noone1996: reacting to natural lighting and cyclops beams several times.

are you freaking kidding me? her powers were not being used to protect her. the bullets were moving at similar speeds as described by noone and she reacted fast enough to repel them with her winds before they hit her. all this lowballing of her feats make it more clear why you guys don't think she has a chance.

quit lowballing just as your scan shows he is quick enough to dodge at those speeds her scan shows she is quick enough to block them with her winds which support she has really fast reaction time.

yea but for some reason you all keep forgetting the other scans I have showed. she reacted fast enough to react to a being made of pure lightning and also trion. so please take everything I have said and not pieces.

agreed.

@kasya_carey: what are feats without bracelets? no one has shown anything of value to this discussion.

@butterflykyss: Like I said, even at face value that kind of speed is still nothing compared to what WW is capable of. If you were arguing that she was fast enough to be on par with Captain America or Batman speed-wise, then I'd say that bullet timing feat was okay, but she needs a lot better feats of speed than that before she can even show up as a blip on Wonder Woman's speed tier radar.

@kasya_carey: How often does she react to lightning? Also, how fast are Cyclops' beams? Even if you provide the most perfect and unquestionable answers (which I am not expecting will happen), those are still outliers or high end feats. She consistently gets tagged by far less and she is never written as some sort of lightning timing speedster.

@noone1996: so how did she get bested by Ocean master and Major Disaster? Storms faster than the both and her powers canonically operate instantly. So why is it that she wouldn't be able to do exactly what they did to her? and also attack her internally.

@noone1996: how many times does she fight against characters made of lightning? as I've stated Storm doesn't fight these high tier characters often but has. but it doesn't discount she is capable of doing it.

@butterflykyss: That's for the Wonder Woman and DC fans to decide. Maybe it was bad writing. Maybe there was context. I'm not going to speak on behalf of that, but the facts I do know involve speed with Storm and Wonder Woman. Even Storm's most high end and irrational speed feats still don't put her near Diana. I know I'm probably wasting my time here to tell you this, but Storm doesn't have to win every single battle.

@butterflykyss: Manipulating a character made of lightning doesn't give you lightning speed. He's not always moving around at lightning speeds. Monica Rambeau is made of living light, and actually has many light speed feats, but I'm not going to say that Iron Man is a light speeder because he's manipulated/absorbed her into his armor before.

Nobody has never stated she can. Storm doesn't have to lose every single battle which most of the time she does in this Comic Site.

@mooty_pass: To Storm fans, she wins every battle. Why don't you ask butterflykyss if she can beat Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, Hulk, Magneto, Juggernaut, etc.? People would be more fair about Storm if they didn't deal with people that think and claim that she can win every battle through outlier and out of character attacks. Honestly, she's got planetary level power and she can hurt really durable characters, but she's not very fast and she's a glass cannon so she's kind of a bad match against almost any competent character with at least street level speed/strength.

well if we go off of WW fans, agent admitted that lightning affects high tier beings which in this case applies to WW. And there is no context, I've read both issues. With Major Disaster the extreme weather was able to subdue them for some time but they eventually defeated the villains and against Ocean Master both Superman and WW were eventually taken out by lightning. and Storm doesn't have to win every battle. I can acknowledge when she loses I just think in this instance here she can win ESPECIALLY when WW was taken out by elementals who are slower and not as powerful as she is.

You again are misinterpreting the scans. Living lightning was moving towards her (at the speed of lightning) but she reacted fast enough to repel his attack. You would be absurd to think Iron Man could win against Monica. She takes out most characters including WW and Storm.

@butterflykyss: Do you really think that Superman should be taken out by weather? You think that's good writing? Do you honestly think that Storm will even be able to see or target Wonder Woman who is astronomically faster than her?

Living Lightning is not moving at lightning speed at all times. Nobody would be able to see him if that were the case. Hell, I'm not even sure if he can blitz at lightning speeds. Also, Tony has defeated Monica. Energy absorption is a funny thing :P

@noone1996: when you consider how recasting weather can be and how it can contain the energy of multiple nuclear explosions it's very possible he can be slowed down by it. Major Disaster didn't beat them buy slowed them down before ultimately being beaten. so no I wouldn't consider it bad writing based upon that. and she has beaten characters made of lightning she could do the same to WW.

and why would a character in battle named living lightning not be moving at lightning speed? There you go again trying to discredit her feats because it demonstrates she can win here. and Tony beating Monica sounds like really really bad writing.

Don't mob me into the same group as everybody else and we won't have a problem. Speak to us as individuals, not as a unit. If you have a problem with Butterflykyss, address him as such, not as "Storm fans". That is the primary issue with a large percentage of users like you. We are NOT a hive mind. We do not agree on everything concerning Storm and her feats. Go read her forums, and see the countless debates that go on about her powers and feats.

I like how people don't realize that Orm's "lightning" that shock Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman is magic based.

@butterflykyss: Fair enough. I'll give you that. Weather is actually really powerful when you compare it on the scale of nuclear weapons or energy production. But lightning itself? It's really not that powerful. Even if it was on the same scale as Earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc., that'd still not be enough to take down WW. But why would a character who is made of living energy/lightning not ALWAYS be moving at lightning speeds at all times? Hmm, maybe because that character might accidentally kill or injure loved ones? Even enemies? Monica doesn't always move at light speeds, so why would you assume that Living Lightning can always move at lightning speeds? This is assuming he has even demonstrated that type of speed before which I've never seen (and I've read all of the West Coast Avengers books with him in it).

@batvibe12: so explain the difference between magical lightning and natural lightning? those tornadoes and water he was manipulating is also magical based. is it different because he is using magic to control it?

@noone1996: thank you. and let me be clear. i am very vocal but my thoughts are my own. if i state storm wins it because i have done a lot of thought about it. that said I don't think many storm fans think Storm can win against WW and I have had discussions with fans who disagree with me. also I'm not arguing she wins because I think she can beat everyone. I most definitely recognize that if WW touches her this match is done. However, I do think if you look at her high end showings you can make a sound argument for her to win against WW. and I respectfully disagree with you point regarding lightning. I think writers typically show high tier characters like being affected by it because of its power. Temperatures of lightning can exceed 5x the surface of the sun and when you account for the power behind a bolt on average is carries about 10 billion watts. That's a huge amount of power. And living lightning only objective was to attack storm and his wiki says he flies at sub light speeds. he was flying towards her so it's I think a rationale and safe assumption to state he was flying at similar speeds.

Yes, it is different. Due to its magical nature, magical lightning doesn't have the same effect as natural lightning.

So the water from the ocean he was controlling properties changed because he used magic to manipulate it? and they have different effects? how are they different? you are seemingly implying magical lightning is stronger. based upon what?

The water from the ocean was also due to a magical crown. The ocean itself didn't have magical properties, but he used magic to manipulate it. Magical lightning depends on the user, but in a sense, it kinda is. It's stronger due to the fact that it is not linked to the environment, in this case, Earth.

It's irrational to believe storm would be able to immobilize or vaporize wonder woman before she comes into contact with the edge of the lasso, tiara, zeus lightning or a fist. Those arguing for Ororo are willing to envision her on her best day but are unable to accept what Diana has accomplished on her best day even in the New 52. It's as simple as that, nothing to argue, just a matter of perspective and subjective preference otherwise known as opinion. But objectively, without any regards to personal preference, unless you believe this is a cartoon or a movie, unless magic is involved, Diana has sustained far greater damage in longer periods of time than what Storm has produced in the time she has before getting one-shotted here.

@agent41 said:

I already tried to explain to butterflykyss. That WW was not at full power in her first encounter with major disaster. It has been said and shown in actual comics by writer Azzarello and others. That N52 WW is only at full power when she takes off her bracelets. That is a concept from Golden Age era, that they brought back. Where taking off her bracelets makes her faster, stronger.

Here in these scans we can see it.

Then here in her second fignt with The Goddess Of The Moon.

Other feats in God Mode include. Fighting SuperDoom. When a Diana without God Mode was defeated by Doomsday. In God Mode she was able to hold SuperDoom for a while and withstand his Death Aura. And also takes him into orbit.

Against First Born who killed other Gods.

And recently, a Wonder Woman without her full power fought major disaster again, and she stomped him.

Excellent scans, i may have to upload the following page of her taking doomsday to space wrapped up at high speeds in God mode

Thank you for your response. However, just because it's magic doesn't mean it's stronger. If you have anything canonically that states this I would concede but at this point that is pure speculation.

Can you provide any scans of her being able to withstand internal attacks? If not then Storm has most definitely produced enough power to take her downm Futhermore, WW has been kod and/or slowed down by extreme weather.

@agent41 said:

@noone1996: @butterflykyss: @batvibe12: @ancient_0f_days: I already tried to explain to butterflykyss. That WW was not at full power in her first encounter with major disaster. It has been said and shown in actual comics by writer Azzarello and others. That N52 WW is only at full power when she takes off her bracelets. That is a concept from Golden Age era, that they brought back. Where taking off her bracelets makes her faster, stronger.

Here in these scans we can see it.

Then here in her second fignt with The Goddess Of The Moon.

Other feats in God Mode include. Fighting SuperDoom. When a Diana without God Mode was defeated by Doomsday. In God Mode she was able to hold SuperDoom for a while and withstand his Death Aura. And also takes him into orbit.

Against First Born who killed other Gods.

And recently, a Wonder Woman without her full power fought major disaster again, and she stomped him.

Thanks agent. These are impressive but still does not demonstrate she would be able to counter storm whose powers activate in less than a conscious thought. Also the scans with Natural Disaster doesn't prove anything as the bolts from the scan I showed were much larger and the weather much more extreme than in that one. Also Storm is much faster than him, so that doesn'. translate to her reaction time. Lastly, the scan in space while she was in God mode mentioned that she couldn't survive up their for long. Why? Is it because she wouldn't be able to breathe? This is another thing that Storm could do which is forcefully remove the air from her lungs instant koing her.

@noone1996: note I said at best she are those speeds and I’m reaching. She reacted to natural lightning several times. Cyclops beams are supposed to be light speed but are much slower. It fast enough to match the speed of lightning. Also half of the time Storm was tagged it was offguard. Also lightning is not weak it depends on the user. Storm lightning is very power.

Don't label people, simple as that.

Wonder Woman solos comfortably.