MCU Black Panther vs CW Ra's al Ghul

Right, lol.

He is the only one comfirmed that fast / powerful. To be fair. Even if others could and did keep up with him.

I'm no expert in CW, but I would imagine that even though in general MCU are definitely superior all around, from what I've seen, the higher tiers of CW can give good fights to supersoldier level combatants. They're pretty skilled. Just looks at some Ra's fights where he casually solos rooms of people, surely he could give Buck a run for his money or something.

That's a great showing both skill and speed-wise, surely far above DCEU Batman's last part of the Warehouse Scene, which wasn't too impressive, but impressive enough.

@anthp2000: That's Ra's???

@anthp2000: Pretty good feat, but I don't remember this at all. That sword sheath isn't even the type that Ra's has on him.

Oh thank god.

@the_fallen_lord: .........WHY ARE PEOPLE USING OTHER FIGHTERS' SHOWINGS TO MAKE A CASE FOR RA'S...?!?!?!?!?!

@anthp2000: Why did you just show a feat for Sunny?

I think ANTHP2000 got confused. Lol, I hope it wasn't intentional.

@foxerdes: SACRILEGE...

Why did I think that's Ra's?

@anthp2000: Lmao you're good. It just seemed off to me at first bc of the environment...I don't think Ra's has fought in a snowy alleyway.

@the_magister: That's a pretty good feat regardless/

Where did you get the GIF from?

lmao it's a thread of CW Ra's vs Sunny and it looks like I mixed them up.

@foxerdes: PIS, sure...somewhat. I already mentioned how silly it was. It was complete PIS that Oliver won in the first place, but equally easy to explain why/how it happened given the circumstances. Cheap shot however, no. Under those very particular circumstances, especially considering that Ra's had every advantage over Oliver, a fighter of Ra's' caliber should be far above cheap shots. He was simply arrogant and let his guard down after thoroughly beating Oliver in a fair bout, exposing an irrefutable character fault: arrogance. A mistake that resulted in his death.

The thing is though, he was trying to win. His last attack was intended to end the fight. He exposed himself and Oliver took advantage. T'Challa on the other hand doesn't need to wait for an opportune opening. He's perfectly capable of creating one due to his stat and skill combination.

I already described in detail a rational potentiality for this scenario based on the stipulations, taking into account both characters. Ra's, without knowledge of his opponent would be somewhat off-guard since there is nothing remarkable about T'Challa here and no indication of his enhanced stats or level of skill, whereas T'Challa would be guarded once observing his opponent's weapon and considering the implication of swordsmanship. Also, T'Challa sans his suit gives off a reserved, regal vibe, nothing that indicates martial capacity, whereas just looking at Ra's is enough to know he is very dangerous.

The fact remains, despite significantly higher skill and experience, Ra's lowered his guard in a crucial moment against an opponent he was fully aware of. He's not some infallible being who's always on-guard or above being surprised. Simply put, he quite evidently couldn't read the movements or the intentions of a fighter he directly trained in a battle to the death when it counted most, leading him to mistakenly drop his guard. Why would the opposite be true against a seemingly undistinguished opponent, especially in a random encounter such as this?

Actually, when thinking about it, it's quite in-character for Ra's to give T'Challa the same courtesy that he did Oliver in their first duel. Despite his apparent crazy, Ra's is actually an honorable man in his own distorted way. This would be an even bigger mistake on Ra's' part.

@foxerdes: You're under the incorrect assumption that Ra's would/could force Black Panther to the ground like that. This fight doesn't even reach a point where this is possible if I'm being honest. He doesn't need to perform some surprise underdog Oliver Queen move to replicate the feat. He can straight up snatch the blade from Ra's' grip under combat circumstances, as even Oliver could catch Ra's' sword. Oliver didn't exploit the monologue exactly, he exploited Ra's' overall arrogant nature and the wildly overconfident attempt to strike him down. As I've clearly stated, there needn't be a personal connection or even a monologue for T'Challa to replicate and better Oliver's finishing move.

So you believe under these stipulations, an in-character Ra's will straight up try to murder an unremarkable and unarmed opponent straight off the bat without extending the courtesy of one of those weapons hanging on the wall? We must have vastly different interpretations of Ra's' character. We know Ra's to have a distorted and misguided sense of honor. Not that any of this would even be necessary for T'Challa to win in the first place...

I wasn't referring to just the gloating. It's more to do with how Ra's perceives himself. This is why those tedious monologues exist in the first place. But like I've repeatedly stated, he dropped his guard against a known highly skilled opponent. It was this arrogance that also attributed to his inability to accurately read his opponent and the situation. After centuries of being the best, I'm sure he thinks his self-perception is justified. If this was the case in such a situation, why is it beyond belief that Ra's would be somewhat off-guard when randomly encountering a seemingly ordinary guy whom unlike himself is unarmed?

Yeah, Ra's murders without hesitation or remorse. A clear example of this would be his training session against the eight assassins, but you'd have an extremely hard time convincing me that those League fodder he slaughtered weren't aware that it was the most likely outcome. They are the definition of sacrificial pawns. This is likely a known occurrence in the League.

My whole point was that this is a random encounter. I've stressed that many times. Ra's has absolutely no knowledge of his opponent. Black Panther on the other hand can at least deduce a measure of skill from his opponent based on him being armed with a sword and the lethal vibe he exudes.

None of this circumstantial speculation truly matters anyway. Black Panther has plenty of feats to support a pretty decisive win straight-up. You yourself have acknowledged that Black Panther is a legitimate bullet-timer. You even voiced a certain amount of displeasure at this revelation. A guy who can perceive, react and outpace a bullet fired at pretty much point-blank range in time to cut it into pieces isn't going to have any trouble with Ra's' combat speed, especially when he has numerous other inferior feats that still support him being on equal footing as Ra's here. His skill and stat combination outweighs Ra's raw skill as well, something that even Oliver could keep up with for a little while. Let me ask you this: do you think Ra's would open this fight with his best, most lethal sword strike against a seemingly ordinary person in a random encounter? I certainly don't, and Ra's would certainly need to bring his very best from the get-go to make this fight more even. Under these stipulations, T'Challa only needs that initial opening attack from Ra's to counter, overpower and immobilize him. And let us be realistic, Black Panther wouldn't go on the offensive first against a sword wielding opponent that even looks deadly.

Ra's.

Under these circumstances, stalemate.

Why stalemate? Either can take down other.

Meh, that's what I meant. 5/10 both sides

Oh. I thought you meant neither can hurt other, which is what stalemate means.

@foxerdes:

Cheers mate. You've made it an interesting debate, so thank you. I'm not really interested in a CaV at the moment, I'm currently working on another project. Besides, I really hold no major stakes in this argument. I also don't feel it necessary to have the last word, but I will quickly address a few of your points for clarification.

At least read my point, I literally said that this fight will most likely end up in different manner.

You can write an entire wall of text but it's all just some analyze, while you simply need a showing.

I did read your point. I think I pretty comprehensively addressed all of your points. I'm also pretty sure you misunderstood me, I was also pretty clearly of the mind it never reaches such a point. My point was that T'Challa didn't require the same context that Oliver did to replicate and better it.

Yeah sorry, my posts always seem to get away from me. I didn't show relevant feats from T'Challa simply because that typically spurns the back-and-forth on more, which I usually try my best to avoid when not looking to debate someone. But since I prefer to answer threads with more than a few words, I always seem to get stuck in debates I have no real desire to be in.

Darn I love those arguments. Why didn't he do that at any point of their duel, except the last blow when Ra's was off-guard? Yeah, most likely because doing so would cut off his hand, since Ra's was strong enough to break a sword with his hit. Catching a blow that was supposed to be negligent execution and most likely didn't gain full momentum yet, doesn't prove that T'Challa can just catch the sword of somebody with established striking strength, especially since he has no cutting durability feats either.

Of course I know why he did it at that exact moment. I literally said this, "He exposed himself and Oliver took advantage. T'Challa on the other hand doesn't need to wait for an opportune opening. He's perfectly capable of creating one due to his stat and skill combination." Yes, he used a negligent attack because he erroneously and arrogantly believed he'd bested Oliver...that Oliver's fight was over. He wasn't capable of accurately assessing the situation or his opponent whom he trained intimately and intensively.

T'Challa doesn't have to grab the blade in that manner. He has everything necessary to catch the blade in this manner, avoiding cutting damage altogether:

Actually no, but nice try. I said that I hate it, because currently it's an ambigous outlier for me. I'm always very hesitant to brand someone as legit bullet timer and I can easily provide debates in which I showcase such attitude, not that there is a need for that. The rest was a joke.

The ambiguity is alleviated by other comparable feats such as the one below, a legitimate and near perfect live-action replication. Also, sorry if I misread your true attitude towards the feat.

Ra's was fighting and training for decades. It's more than fair to assume that he will realize how skilled T'Challa is the moment he sees his movements and attacks, it's not something a grandmaster fighter would overlook.

He failed to read Oliver, an opponent he personally trained to be nearly as deadly as himself, in a pivotal moment mind you. I highly doubt he'll be able to tell straight away what caliber of fighter T'Challa is whilst the latter is dressed in regular street clothes, with nothing alluding to any sort of martial capacity at all. Ra's is very skilled but his combat perception isn't too far above Oliver's by feats, nor is he infallible. The circumstances of his death are proof of this.

I don't like having long debates in thread, but I'd be more than glad to do that in an official match.

I also prefer not to get stuck in long-winded debates when I honestly hold no stakes in the outcome. However, as I said above, I don't have the time for something that interests me so little. Thanks for thinking me worthy of it though, it's the first time someone's suggested a CaV with me.

How does it prove that Ra's isn't willing to outright kill his opponent?

It doesn't, but I was attempting to illustrate that there's usually context behind the majority of times he's mercilessly slaughtered someone. He doesn't murder for the thrill of it, or the sake of it. He's above that. The vast majority of his kills serve some sort of purpose.

Do you have any idea about basics of swordsmanship? Nevermind. Ra's hast he experience and martial art expertise to suggest he will recognize Panther's skill instantly. Feel free to respond if you want the last voice, none of your points convinced me at all. Let me know if you want to CaV it though, you look like a really decent debater. I'd be able to adress all your points there.

I'm not sure why that is relevant, but it's not unfair to think that an armed opponent will assume they hold the advantage when facing an unarmed opponent. Logically, against an apparent swordsman, T'Challa would not be the aggressor initially in this situation. Even if he could gauge T'Challa's skill, which I highly doubt it, there's absolutely no way for him to deduce his massive stat advantage. One misjudgement or less than perfect swing of his sword could potentially spell doom for Ra's. From his showings, Ra's simply has no answer for Black Panther's stat advantage, whilst T'Challa is more well-equipped to deal with his opponent.

Finally, it was never my intention to convince you one way or another. If it came across that way, I apologize. My intent was to simply post an answer to the thread. I chose to do so by constructing a scenario in accordance to the stipulations provided, describing how and why I thought T'Challa would achieve a solid win. Apparently, I fell into the trap again... However, it was not without merit, so thanks again.

@foxerdes: No worries mate.

Ra's in a decent fight.

Smh. Knew this was getting bumped.

Bump

Ra's under these circumstances

Honestly, this is a difficult match. T'Challa has superhuman combat speed and thus could easily overpower Ra's. However Ra's is way more skilled but he doesn't have knowledge here, he has no reason to try and play it safe and counter T'Challa effectively. I can see either winning.

I don't see how Ra's doesn't win. He more than skilled enough to tag T'Challa and when that happens it's basically over from there.

I'd back T'Challa more often than not. Stronger, just as fast, less skilled, but not enough to make a difference.