Besides thats one fight against Bullseye. In the most recent one they had before he gets put in prison Daredevil beats the crap outta him and stabs a bullseye into his head. If I remember correctly. Daredevil kicks Bullseye's ass 8/10 times.
"@Statci shock: Can you show the before and after of that scan, cause reading the little dialog it almost seems like DD isnt fighting back properly. And for some reason its obscured a bit by another post."
I'm afraid I don't have those pages right now. But, Vance says it's Daredevil in Bullseye's costume.
"He didn't one shot him before. Thats the whole point. But its got nothing to do with this really. "
Yes he did and that's the whole point! Either way he is too well equipped and too smart to lose to Daredevil when he is allowed all his standard equipment.
Lol sure it was :P Even though BP says "he rises..." Karnak gets the worst deal from Marvel. But again I don't see how failing to one shot Karnak has anything to do with this thread. BP and Daredevil have fought before, BP was mind controlled and Daredevil was holding back and they seemed pretty even.
"Lol sure it was :P Even though BP says "he rises..." Karnak gets the worst deal from Marvel. But again I don't see how failing to one shot Karnak has anything to do with this thread. BP and Daredevil have fought before, BP was mind controlled and Daredevil was holding back and they seemed pretty even. "
They actually aren't even as far as fighting skill goes.According to the handbooks and the Marvel Encyclopedia,DD is a little above him;However because of Black Panther's intellect and standard equipment..DD doesn't have much chance of even hurting him.
I wouldn't say in a fight his intellect matters THAT much. I mean Daredevil isn't dumb when he fights either by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing that I would consider a threat is the suit. Even then I think Daredevil's radar senses would be able to find a weakness similar to what he did with the steel bars.
"I wouldn't say in a fight his intellect matters THAT much. I mean Daredevil isn't dumb when he fights either by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing that I would consider a threat is the suit. Even then I think Daredevil's radar senses would be able to find a weakness similar to what he did with the steel bars. "
Daredevil is a borderline genius but his intellect is better used in the courtroom and not in battle.Not saying he doesn't use his brain,but alot of the time especially the state he's in now with his wife dying and his identity exposed he just goes straight in at his enemy using raw power and hitting pressure points.He almost doesn't think at all.He knows where all the pressure points are and he's ridiculously strong for a human.DD's radar sense is very good but it doesn't find weaknesses in things,that's a whole different sense that he was taught by Stick.He has found weaknesses in hard substances before like he did with Absorbing Man when he was in diamond form,but you have to understand that when your fighting someone around your level of fighting skill..finding a weakness in a material you know nothing about,will be almost impossible.
"I wouldn't say in a fight his intellect matters THAT much. I mean Daredevil isn't dumb when he fights either by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing that I would consider a threat is the suit. Even then I think Daredevil's radar senses would be able to find a weakness similar to what he did with the steel bars. "
I don't think so. First of all, vibranium is stronger than steel. And second, how would he be able to exploit the suit if there is a weakness? He can't do id with force because the suit would absorb it immediately. The only weakness is slashing at the grain of the suit. And getting close enough to try this 'so-called' weakness make him victim to anti-metal claws, energy daggers, vibranium energy-dampening soles that could crush bones, and knockout gas. Daredevil will be put down before he could try this weakness thing.
I agree with the whole thing about his mindset but this isn't a story. Its person A's powers vs person B's powers. The thing stick taught him was meant to replace the radar sense cause he lost it, doesn't mean he couldn't do it beforehand and I agree finding a weakness in Vibranium would be difficult but I don't think it will be impossible. I think this is a good fight regardless.
"I agree with the whole thing about his mindset but this isn't a story. Its person A's powers vs person B's powers. The thing stick taught him was meant to replace the radar sense cause he lost it, doesn't mean he couldn't do it beforehand and I agree finding a weakness in Vibranium would be difficult but I don't think it will be impossible. I think this is a good fight regardless. "
Ok,your right this isn't story but that doesn't mean DD isn't still himself.Even before this recent arc DD was more likely to just jump into battle and wing it,where as Black Panther plans out alot of his moves.
this whole intellect thing is really really fuzzy in marvel. Its alot easier in DC Batman is the smartest and and thus he can pull off wins over metahumans. IN Marvel its all jacked up too many guys lay claim to being the smartest and others are not as smart but tend to win regardless. and to top all that off some guys are smarter than others in other areas so its far to many variables and a bit inconsistent to use or predict in battles for MARVEL U
"this whole intellect thing is really really fuzzy in marvel. Its alot easier in DC Batman is the smartest and and thus he can pull off wins over metahumans. IN Marvel its all jacked up too many guys lay claim to being the smartest and others are not as smart but tend to win regardless. and to top all that off some guys are smarter than others in other areas so its far to many variables and a bit inconsistent to use or predict in battles for MARVEL U "
"this whole intellect thing is really really fuzzy in marvel. Its alot easier in DC Batman is the smartest and and thus he can pull off wins over metahumans. IN Marvel its all jacked up too many guys lay claim to being the smartest and others are not as smart but tend to win regardless. and to top all that off some guys are smarter than others in other areas so its far to many variables and a bit inconsistent to use or predict in battles for MARVEL U "
Well see,Iron Man is genius as far as some areas of science goes especially technology and Reed Richards is smarter than him period but less knowledgeable in certain areas.The thing i'm trying to point out though is the way there genius intellect translates in battle.Reed is of average intellect when it comes to h2h,but Spider-Man who is deemed gifted or on the edge of genius is far more knowledgeable in combat.
Hmm...Daredevil vs Black Panther. This is a hell of a fight here. I am more inclined to say this fight may end up a stalemate. They are both rather equal in so many categories
"How can he dodge Bullseye and not have peak human reflexes and speed? "
He has Olympic-level reflexes and speed (just under peak-human), and he relies on his radar sense to dodge bullets. It would be a different story if he didn't have that ability. I don't remember the Handbook saying anything about him having peak-human speed and reflexes.
"How can he dodge Bullseye and not have peak human reflexes and speed? "
He has Olympic-level reflexes and speed (just under peak-human), and he relies on his radar sense to dodge bullets. It would be a different story if he didn't have that ability. I don't remember the Handbook saying anything about him having peak-human speed and reflexes. "
Even without his radar sense he could dodge Bullseye. He lost it and Stick trained him from scratch how to roughly imitate it with training. He wouldn't be able to keep up with Elektra who has peak human agility. The handbook I have states his reflexes, speed and endurance as "phenomenol".
"Even without his radar sense he could dodge Bullseye. He lost it and Stick trained him from scratch how to roughly imitate it with training. He wouldn't be able to keep up with Elektra who has peak human agility. The handbook I have states his reflexes, speed and endurance as "phenomenol". "
But, that doesn't imply that the are peak-human. What does his meter say for speed? What number is it?
Nah your right it says "Olympic" whatever the heck that implies, I'd like to see an Olympic gymnast take on 100 Yakuza at the same time. I'd still put him close enough to peak to be able to fight people that are peak. Elektra and Black Widow are put as peak speed and reflexes and Gladiator (Melvin Potter) is put at peak strength as is the Kingpin and he takes hits from them without it damaging him too much. He was able to keep up with BP when they fought as well.
I'd say DD is closer to Peakhuman then to Olympic, regardless of what any handbook or bio says. Gambit is slated as being Near Superhuman in speed and reflexes and yet when he fought DD they matched each other step for step. Gambit should of had the speed advantage but didn't.
Did Gambit fight DD in a Gambit or a DD book? Do you know the issue number? Seems like an interesting fight. Seems weird to me that if Gambit can keep up with Daredevil he can't dodge stuff thrown by Bullseye.
"Did Gambit fight DD in a Gambit or a DD book? Do you know the issue number? Seems like an interesting fight. Seems weird to me that if Gambit can keep up with Daredevil he can't dodge stuff thrown by Bullseye. "
Yeah hold on. I have scans. And I think he can dodge things from Bullseye, in fact he blocked the cards that he threw at Bullseye and where thrown back. To me it seems less to do with speed and more to do with Bullseyes accuracy. You could almost call it his power, he never misses ( I know he has but its highly unlikely)
I suppose. DD has been fighting Bullseye since back in the day. When DD fought Echo after she taskmastered Bullseye abilities he recognised which moves were his. He is probably used to his fighting style and attack patterns by now (even though that doesn't detract from the fact he still actually has to dodge them).
Cheers dude, I like the Constrictor, I think he is severly under-rated. But yeah DD keeps up with Gambit nicely, so thats a testament to his agility right there.
"Cheers dude, I like the Constrictor, I think he is severly under-rated. But yeah DD keeps up with Gambit nicely, so thats a testament to his agility right there. "
Actually..DD's acrobatic skill rather than his agility is what allows him to keep up with Gambit.His bio in the Marvel Knight's encyclopedia says that he has Olympic level agility but he is a Master Acrobat and that there are people like Iron Fist with superhuman agility who have won his costume but weren't able to emulate his moves.
"Cheers dude, I like the Constrictor, I think he is severly under-rated. But yeah DD keeps up with Gambit nicely, so thats a testament to his agility right there. "
Actually..DD's acrobatic skill rather than his agility is what allows him to keep up with Gambit.His bio in the Marvel Knight's encyclopedia says that he has Olympic level agility but he is a Master Acrobat and that there are people like Iron Fist with superhuman agility who have won his costume but weren't able to emulate his moves."
Interesting. That actually makes alot of sense. And also says alot about Gambit's acrobatic prowess.
Yeah I suppose so. Regardless he was able to keep up with a guy who has been labelled at peak human agility. So if he keep up with him he can keep up with BP.
"Yeah I suppose so. Regardless he was able to keep up with a guy who has been labelled at peak human agility. So if he keep up with him he can keep up with BP. "
Oh..I'm positive he can keep up with BP..he kept up with Spider-Man and Beast who are both superhuman so BP is really no different in that department.
Hmmmm.... I think that it can go either way but I'm obviously gonna give you my reasons for thinking BP can win. OK first is the simple fact that he is born of a worrior race, his people have never been defeated and in the marvel universe no nation on the planet can challenge them. Only individuals in his bloodline can consume or absorb the juices of the herb without dying or falling into a fatal illness because his family has been blessed by the panther God and in doing so they have been given a spiritual connection. He is also classified as a King, a warrior, a scientist and a Priest. He even had to fight his uncle to take the thrown... in these images T'challa is challenging his uncle (who has already taken the heart shaped herb) and he wins:
captioncaptioncaptioncaption
Did I forget to mention that he was still a teenager when he beat his uncle? From birth he was trained in every known martial art of the world and every unknown African martial art with the intentions of one day becoming king and that's why he was able to defeat superhuman enemies even before he had powers. His senses from birth were at the peak human level but as soon as he took the herb his senses went to superhuman levels, granting him super sight : he can see far distances and in total darkness, super smell, super hearing and taste. he also has peak level speed, reflexes,agility, strength and endurance: which gives him a slight healing factor that when he gets a wound that would usually take months to heal he can heal in days. He also has amazing tracking skills and with his hybrid fighting style makes him capable of reading his opponents moves and counter attacking before they even make it like when he took on wolverine: caption
or when he took on Karnak of the Inhumans: captioncaptioncaption
He also has a connection to the panther goddess Bastet and she sometimes helps him when in need. T'challa's intellect has given him the title of being one of the smartest individuals on earth which is evident when he took on iron man: captioncaptioncaptioncaptioncaptioncaptioncaptioncaptioncaption
If Ironman couldn't then I find it hard to see how DD is gonna hurt BP through his vibranium armour. Plus BP is an expert hand to hand combatant and even if DD has his weapons BP can always unsheathe his retractable anti-metal claws that can slice DD up like a hot knife through butter.
@Black Panther...While I agree T'challa wins.I disagree with your observation of Iron Man.Iron Man could beat T'Challa no matter what he's wearing.Different writers tend to just do anything with Iron Man like he's still just a guy in a suit...and that's not the case.Iron Man could BFR T'challa so harshly we'd never see him again.
"@Black Panther...While I agree T'challa wins.I disagree with your observation of Iron Man.Iron Man could beat T'Challa no matter what he's wearing.Different writers tend to just do anything with Iron Man like he's still just a guy in a suit...and that's not the case.Iron Man could BFR T'challa so harshly we'd never see him again."
I was only giving an example of BP's intellect and nothing more... I'll enlarge the images so you can see the writing of what they are saying and a better view of whats happening.
"@Black Panther...While I agree T'challa wins.I disagree with your observation of Iron Man.Iron Man could beat T'Challa no matter what he's wearing.Different writers tend to just do anything with Iron Man like he's still just a guy in a suit...and that's not the case.Iron Man could BFR T'challa so harshly we'd never see him again."
I was only giving an example of BP's intellect and nothing more... I'll enlarge the images so you can see the writing of what they are saying and a better view of whats happening. "
Did Hudlin write that? Because Iron Man should be able to beat BP in any suit.
"@Black Panther...While I agree T'challa wins.I disagree with your observation of Iron Man.Iron Man could beat T'Challa no matter what he's wearing.Different writers tend to just do anything with Iron Man like he's still just a guy in a suit...and that's not the case.Iron Man could BFR T'challa so harshly we'd never see him again."
I was only giving an example of BP's intellect and nothing more... I'll enlarge the images so you can see the writing of what they are saying and a better view of whats happening. "
Did Hudlin write that? Because Iron Man should be able to beat BP in any suit."
Now that's an over exaggeration. If BP has his Thrice Blessed armour or more importantly his Light Armour Ironman will have to be more specific as to which suit he wears. His less durable suits wont help him win. As mentioned by Buckshot, the fight was written by Priest and he never used to stretch BP's capabilities without a solid and logical explanation. Ironman is a formidable human but when fighting powerful minds like Reed Richards or BP its not unlikely that they would use his short temper against him. and remember that even though BP's scientific intellect maybe challenged by Ironman, he cant rival BP's knowledge and experience on the battlefield
"@Black Panther...While I agree T'challa wins.I disagree with your observation of Iron Man.Iron Man could beat T'Challa no matter what he's wearing.Different writers tend to just do anything with Iron Man like he's still just a guy in a suit...and that's not the case.Iron Man could BFR T'challa so harshly we'd never see him again."
Vance Astro said:
"Did Hudlin write that? Because Iron Man should be able to beat BP in any suit."
It was written by Christopher Priest. The Iron Man suit that Tony was wearing is different from the original. It was made from ceramic, I think. And, it didn't have the same capabilities as his other suits. However, at the time they fought, Tony didn't have the Extremis. But, in any case, T'Challa wasn't outclassed in that fight, and it was never stretched in his favor under PIS. You should examine that fight, and read the captions. The writing is completely legit, and Priest is one of the better comic book writers around. I wonder what he's doing now....
"Maybe Valkaad would think Panther would win if he were a white European......"
I personally don't base things on race. For you to even bring race into a comic book discussion means maybe you need to re-evaluate yourself. I don't know what your ethnic origin is and you don't know what mine is, but did you ever think that Maybe if BP were white european you wouldn't like him sooo much. Maybe if he were Asian he wouldn't get defended so strongly (I once made the argument that I thought he was too honorable to fight dirty and beat batman, i thought this was a compliment! Buckshot acutally said no BP would fight dirty and he hit an old woman, he was actually arguing against BP being honorable to show he would win. For the record I think Black Panther would beat Daredevil even though I am a huge DD fan! I think BP is stronger faster and a better all around fighter. My comment about the everythinger was a joke and I didn't think i would be called an idiot or accused of choosing characters based on race. My issue with BP is that I collected a lot of comics in the 80's and 90's when BP was just a B-rated guy. I quit collecting for a few years and when I came back BP is now virtually unbeatable. He was originally not a better fighter than Wolverine, not smarter than Tony Stark, not faster than insert name here. I know things change in comics but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with it or laugh at it.I don't like that She-Hulk beat Champion I think that is ridiculous and guess what jennifer walters is white! I don't like how Batman, like BP, is supposedly unbeatable by even superpowered beings, and guess what bruce wayne is white too. Maybe you choose YOUR favorites based on race I choose mine on "coolness" and storylines.
"
Damn man, I totally agree with EVERYTHING you just wrote. I usually try not to even take side on these boards, because anything CAN be plausible. I'll agree with you however.
Log in to comment