@lanternbatman: that environment is way to congested make it a warehouse that way there's no flight advantage but Falcon is still able to move around. That environment Batman a helluva lot more than the rooftops favor Falcon
Oh c'mon, it's been 20 minutes, 20 MINUTES and you still haven't posted?
@_kingoflatveria im going to give you 5 more minutes to finish your post, and 30 minutes thereafter to construct your responses. Otherwise, you concede.
I'm getting bored. It's been 3.765 milliseconds and you haven't opened it up for votes yet. You're horrible debaters, as I know some that can finish debates in microseconds. For shame.
“All men have limits. They learn what they are and then learn not to exceed them. I ignore mine.”
I know pretty much nothing about Falcon. So I'll just put up Batman's feats to establish his lvl. Next post I'll counter any gear, flight, and etc Falcon might have.
Striking Power
First, let's start with quantifiable showings that entail him being a guy who can treat metal, marble walls, concrete structures, and etc like tissue paper. Bear in mind all this stuff is quite low end for him.
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Scan 1: Bruce was starved and dehydrated for days, poisoned, beaten the shit out of, then forced to dig himself out of a shallow grave. To elaborate on the grave thing, he was locked up in a straitjacket and benchpressed a pine coffin lid through 600 pounds of loose soil that's filling his mouth, crushing his lungs flat, and shredding his dehydrated muscles. So he's massively weakened. Yet in this state, he kicks off a reinforced helicopter metal door while underwater. (Batman #701)
Scan 2: With a casual blow ragdolls Bane (who weights 350 lbs or 0.2 tons), unhinging a reinforced metal door. (Batman: Bane)
Scan 3: Punches Prometheus' metal helmet to bits. (JLA #38)
Scan 4: While injuried and in a Year One (aka when he first started working as Batman) state, breaks a 3 foot thick concrete pillar with a single kick. (Batman #406)
Scan 5: Batman was caught in an explosion that covered the top of a skyscraper, fell off a ten story building, was buried under 10+ tons of concrete, had a few of his ribs broken and his left arm injured, got smashed through a 1 foot thick concrete wall then fell a 30 feet distance, had a blade stuck through his body and liver, got the shit beaten out of him by marble wall busting and reinforced metal door damaging hits from William Cobb, several of his bones got broken, his blood was filling all the wrong places, etc etc. Yet in this massively weakened state, Bruce punches William Cobb through a thick marble wall, creating a huge hole in it. (Batman Vol. 2 #6)
Scan 6: Literally runs through a marble wall. (Batman: City Of Light #7)
For reference marble is 2.71 tonnes per cubic meter, according to this. Now, let's look at his scaling feats:
Scan 3: One-shots Post Flashpoint Killer Croc. I believe I've shown that Croc's sheer durability is enough to run through a massively thick stone wall. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #28)
Scan 4: One-shots Poison Ivy. Poison Ivy has took a double kick from Cassandra Cain (Batgirl Vol. 1 #52). This is the same Cassandra Cain who effortlessly one-shots and busts steel swords, metal pipes, 1 foot thick concrete walls, stone dummies, punches off the heads of Robots, etc. Yet here Batman's striking dwarfs her. (Batman #495)
Scan 5: One-shots Post Crisis Killer Croc. Croc has no sold bullrushing through concrete walls, so his durability is decent. (Batman 80 Page Giant 1999 #2)
Overall, he has pretty good striking feats. And this is all on the lower end, so if this doesn't seem like much to you, DW. I have way better feats to show ;D
Durability/Damage Soak
If Falcon tries blunt force, I'm confident it won't work. Let's start with some concrete and stone lvl feats:
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Scan 1: Deathstroke slams Batman with a 5 ton piece of concrete. Bruce just shrugs it off. (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #5)
Scan 2: Gets his face mashed in through thick concrete, and only gets a bloody lip. (Batman Vol. 2 #35)
Scan 4 and 6: William Cobb slams him through a 1 foot thick concrete wall (bear in mind this is a sucker hit), then Batman proceeds to fall a 30-50 foot distance/height. He isn't damaged at all. (Batman Vol. 2 #4)
The feat of being slammed by a 5 ton piece of concrete is particularly impressive. But let's see his fight with Bane (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs. Bane). Here he is slammed by multi ton objects by Bane, then proceeds to tank a punch. This is the same Bane who dealt huge dents and unhinged a reinforced metal door, busted concrete walls, etc. Yet Bruce still takes his hits with no damage.
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Again, all on the lower end. I haven't gotten to him taking hits from Clayface, Orca, Lady Shiva, The Heretic, Azrael, etc. Now onto some damage soak feats. Let's take his fight against Dionesium amped Joker (Batman Vol. 2 #40).
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Scan 1: He is caught in a room+ sized explosion
Scan 2: Joker comes in and sticks a knife through his shoulder
Scan 3: Next Joker stabs Batman through the head and again the shoulder, cuts his back creating an arc, then sticks another knife through his back
Scan 4: Bruce and Joker fall along a slope, then Joker grabs a rock covered with fire and smashes Batman's face with it, burning his face
Scan 5-6: Joker throws several card at his right eye and both arms, cutting them all up. Finally Batman is down after the fight ends. Although he was fighting just fine.
Batman's damage soak is insane, and will allow him to take more and more hits and fight through it.
Speed
I'll just post all his bullet timing feats:
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Scan 6 and 1: Here Batman dodges sniper bullets. We see a lighting in the second panel indicating the gunshots, in the same panel we see Batman staying still, in the next panel Batman clear-cut dodges the bullets. And sniper-timing + moving your whole body is more impressive than Panther's feat. According to wikipedia, the average muzzle velocity of a sniper is between 800-1000 m/s. Let's assume the sniper was 900 m/s level, convert that into this m/s to mach converter and we get a mach 2.6 bullet. (Legends Of The Dark Knight #174)
Scan 2: Clear-cut bullet timing. Moves his body out of the way of handgun gunfire. (Legends Of The Dark Knight #176)
Scan 4-5: Dodges semi-automatic gunfire (for reference popular semi automatics like the AR-15 are three times the speed of handguns, which even on the lower end are at least mach 1.1), weaving/jumping over it. Batman says he's dodging bullets so it's bullet timing. If he meant to say he was aim dodging, he would have said he was evading the shooters or something similar. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #10)
Now, let's take a look at his FTE feats:
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Scan 1-2: Moves FTE to Jim Gordon and Harvey Dent. (Batman: The Long Halloween #1)
Scan 3-4: FTE to a cop. (Detective Comics #815)
Scan 5: Here he punches out 6 men before they, or the other men surrounding them (4 men, to be exact) can move an inch. This is FTE because we only see Bruce punching out one guy, yet the rest look like they're getting KOed. Only possible way for that to happen is if Bats was moving FTE. (Batgirl Vol. 1 #6)
Scan 6: FTE to Lois Lane. (Batman/Superman #15)
Just to prove Batman abuses his speed, here is him dancing around Nightwing (Batman #600). I have more instances to show Batman abusing his speed, if you want them just ask. And BTW, that counts as an excellent combat speed feat. Nightwing has these feats of speed:
Scan 2-3: Tags Wally West who, from the scans, seemed to be moving at massively casual FTE speeds (due to us not being able to see him, instead we just see a blur of red and some yellow). Before you scream outlier, this is quantified by Wally moving at massively casual FTE speeds. (The Titans Vol. 1 #20)
Scan 4: Evades and dances out of an explosion. (Batman Annual #27)
To prove Falcon can keep up in combat speed, you're going to have to proof he's much faster than Nightwing. Because even he can't touch Batman.
Skill
I'm pretty sure Batman has a massive skill edge. Bruce has matched Post Flashpoint Lady Shiva, blocking all her strikes (Detective Comics #956)
And Shiva has impressive skill feats, she curbstomped Cassandra Cain (Detective Comics #952)
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And again (Detective Comics #953)
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Cassandra is insanely skilled too, she has godstomped Nightwing (Batman and Robin Eternal #1). This is despite Nightwing having every single physical advantage by a solid margin (I mean Dick tanks huge explosions, ragdolls giants that weight 2-3 tons with his strikes, takes hits from small house sized (in height) ice monsters etc etc) yet she still stomps him.
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Grayson has feats like curbstomping Mother in 5 panels (Batman and Robin Eternal #26). Mother was curbstomping Red Hood, Damien Wayne, and Tim Drake so she is greatly skilled.
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So Red Hood, Damien and Tim<<<Mother<<<Nightwing<<<Cassandra Cain<<<Lady Shiva=Batman. Yes, I know that's going through a lot of scaling, but skill feats are based around scaling. If you want a feat of stomping a somewhat skilled and physically imposing opponent, here is Bruce pretty much stomping 0ff venom Bane. Even off venom, Bane has ripped off the arm of armored humans, stomped KG Beast (a guy who can pretty much stomp Tim Drake) in H2H, blitzing men right after before they pull the trigger on guns, punching clean through steel etc. Yet Batman stomps him. Heck, Batman has curbstomped a Talon (Batman Vol. 2 #8)
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Talons are capable of significantly damaging reinforced thick metal doors with their casual punches, regenerating a stick being mashed through their brain, stomping 20 armored trained men, tanking Black Canary's hits (Dinah can shatter metal with her strikes), no selling 100 pounds of pressure, fighting Nightwing well, etc. Yet Bruce still stomps. And he was a bit weakened here. Previously, Batman was caught in an explosion that covered the top of a skyscraper, fell off a ten story building, was buried under 10+ tons of concrete, had a few of his ribs broken and his left arm injured, got smashed through a 1 foot thick concrete wall then fell a 30 feet distance, had a blade stuck through his body and liver, got the shit beaten out of him by marble wall busting and reinforced metal door damaging hits from William Cobb, several of his bones got broken, his blood was filling all the wrong places, etc etc.
Summary
So for now I think I've established Batman's physical and skill tier, and thus far they're all low end feats. Next post, I'll be expecting to talk about:
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