Battler Ushiromiya vs Yogiri Takatou

Rules:

Both are at their strongest. All feats except Cosmology advantages(Pure hax). Both are in character but bloodlusted.

Location: City of Books. I mean why not?

PS: Im rooting for Battler here. Convince me if your rooting for Yogiri.

Battler stomps

@divinemaster: here's the thing tho. Battler's truth or perhaps his longsword denies all concepts in purpose of denying it's opponent's existence. A simple defense of denying the truths probably won't work as it bypasses all types of defense or evasion. The only way to really kill the truths is to counter attack of another truth that denies it. An example of that is when Erika can't remove the blue wedges stuck on her even if she denies until she creates a truth that evens the truth in the wedges. The red truth is even harder to deal with since it can't be denied at all especially if all gameboard rules were to be removed and the red truth can be used in whatever way just as how Bernkastel was spamming it in the final battle. Endless 9 is being supported by Battler's truths so unless his truths are denied then Endless 9 won't fall. Even if Yogiri were to kill Battler, there won't be a way for him actually die. Battler survived multiple existence erasure, first was when he got eaten by theory goats fully erasing him but after regaining his will to fight he was able to ressurect himself, and that was before his sorcerer awakening, the second is when he got hit by Dlanor's Red Key which denies existence but Battler denied it as well by becoming a sorcerer and having preserved truths in his mind that denies Erika's truths turning his existence denial/defeat into nothing more but a nightmare. The avatar Yogiri is up against Battler's true form who has no actual death. Yogiri's Immortality comes from a higher being but since I evened the battlefield, both his avatar and true form are in the same plane. Here's the question: does Yogiri have a power similar to creating truths because simply denying it with defense that negates or an offence that destroys without actually overwriting it probably won't work and since Endless 9 is supported by Battler's truths it won't be negated as well unless his truths are dealt with. Correct me if im wrong.

Golden truth is on entirely different level. We'll talk about that if the Red and Blue truths are defeated

Lol

OT: Battler won't Even notice Rimuru

@divinemaster: im not sure about transconceptual erasure (yet)

As for erasure across all timelines. He denied Kinzo's existence across the infinite Kakeras in Beato's gameboard using his gold truth when his red couldn't be accepted.

For transconceptual defense not sure about the either (yet)

Erasure across all timelines is irrelevant. He is beyond the concept of space and time in which speed and distance becomes irrelevant. This also applies to Battler's opponents in Umineko as well.

For Eldritch God fear im not so sure. But in the final battle, Battler was able to fully ignore Featherine and her Overlord cats' existence entirely that they were not allowed to interfere at all even after wittinessing Lambdadelta's death. Endless 9 requires 100% control in mentality to activate it's full potential so yea he can probably ignore the horror of the Eldritch gods by saying that such things only exist in books

@divinemaster: I just remembered. Battler is capable of blocking attacks from beings of superior hierarchy such as 3 of Featherine's overlord cats who is supposed to be infinitely stronger than him. So Yogiri can only bypass Battler's defense if he's capable of bypasing his own defenses

@divinemaster: I removed cosmology advantages in purpose of avoiding whose infinity is bigger since Battler stomps if that's the case. For this battle endless 9 is nerfed to reach only this narrative meaning it can't protect battler from a higher narrative. But even if that was the case, endless 9 paired with golden truth was capable of denying even the red truth so I don't think Yogiri will still be capable of bypassing a hax defense like that. But then again a counter attack is questionable as well unless Golden Truth is superior to Instant Death and Yogiri's defenses

@divinemaster: I removed cosmology advantages in purpose of avoiding whose infinity is bigger since Battler stomps if that's the case. For this battle endless 9 is nerfed to reach only this narrative meaning it can't protect battler from a higher narrative. But even if that was the case, endless 9 paired with golden truth was capable of denying even the red truth so I don't think Yogiri will still be capable of bypassing a hax defense like that. But then again a counter attack is questionable as well unless Golden Truth is superior to Instant Death and Yogiri's defenses

@divinemaster: so this stays inconclusive unless I remove the nerf from endless 9. Under my spoken conditions this battle is a tie since it's a "die no u die" situation. Then again I got all the answers I need for future debates so it's worth it

Battler blinks, Golden Truth gg. Also, with Endless Nine, Yogiri can't harm him, and saying that Battler could be affected by Yogiri's hax, considering that he is a conceptual being that can exist as long as he wants even if he is totally erased, it's pure NLF.

@divinemaster: there only exists one Battler tho, the collective consciousness of infinite Battler's from infinite Rokenjima tragedies. Dlanor's Red Key denied all that but he was still able to ressurect himself. Umineko witches has no actual death in the first place, their so called death is simply boredom, depression, or losing their will to fight. In Lambdadelta's case against Featherine would be a different matter since she used plot manipulation, then again Lambdadelta wasn't probably "dead" at that point, she was only put in eternal despair. Unless Battler gives up the fight, he's not dying. It's gonna be even harder because of Endless 9 nerfed or not.

Cosmology is really irrelevant in cross-verse scenarios. And WTC characters in the Witches Domain alone very clearly ignore narrative layers via hax anyways.

@divinemasterBattler can't hurt him with Truths since they are conceptual overriding which Yogiri passively neggs.

Truths are absolute conceptual narrative manipulation hax. How does Yogiri neg this? Negging random ass conceptual reality warping alone is not enough.

Since cosmologies are equal its very NLF to say that only other truths can counter his truth. Since truths work on a fundamental and conceptual level it's safe to say anything of equal potency should be able to counter it.

Truths are absolute. ^ They can only be countered, not overpowered. Such as how Endless Nine counters Truths by rejecting them as being truth at all.

I know about him coming back to life but that was singular existence erasure, what if Yogiri erases him across all timelines conceptually like he did to Darian?

Doesn't really change anything. Yogiri needs to either stop the concept of regeneration from working at all or somehow stop Battler from retaining his consciousness after being erased, as it will allow him to think himself back into existence.

Yes, when he speaks the word "Die" (or anything similar to it) it literally becomes the truth, as is confirmed time and time again when everyone was trying to avoid it either by time/fate/causality/probability manipulation but failed. I'm also not sure if Battler won't just passively die as as side-effect of using truths to kill Yogiri.

Battler has Endless Nine which has shown to be able to negate Truths.

And Yogiri's Truth Manipulation should be overridden by Battler's without Endless Nine needing to be used due to it being absolute in terms of potency.

Endless Nine also gets negged since Yogiri has shown to easily and passively bypass probability manipulation.

Endless Nine isn't probability manipulation. It's the absolute concept of denial. Rendering essentially anything Battler rejects as non-existent and thus not effecting him. This was originally supposed to be restricted to magic, but Endless Nine later on is shown to be able to reject whatever the user desires, such as Truths (which are not magic considering humans and angels use them to combat magic).

Not extremely knowledgeable on Yogiri, but based on everything presented in this thread he gets shitstomped. Impressive most definitely. But there's impressive and then there's Battler. Hilarious difference.

@kemono_dono: Salty about the SB ban I see... Have fun with that.

Spergbattles is trash AF

@gelato_exotic: You're damn right it is. So is this place too though... Both for completely different reasons.

Anyways... best get back to the topic.

@typeiv: I agree for the most part tbh. Ever since G+ got shut down and I got banned off NarutoForums I just comment here now.

Most of these online forums suck and are a headache in general. Only ones I genuinely ever enjoyed being a member of was The Beast's Lair and DBZeta.

Battler negs the verse. This is just too much for Yogiri.

@divinemaster: Don't understand wdym by the first sentence of your post. If you are implying that all cross-verse battles should have their cosmologies equalized, that's fallacious reasoning since it will nerf characters down to a level low enough for the opponents hax to work and completely ignore the vastly superior AP the other one has (especially in multiversal debates like these).

Putting a higher layer character in a neutral verse or the enemy's verse that lacks those higher layers would obviously mean he can't access those layers if there are none to begin with. Wouldn't necessarily lose all of his power, but still not an insane difference. Also I'm not convinced that mere layer differences can ignore all types of hax and reality warping, such as reality warping capabilities that don't even exist in the higher layer verse. Raw transcendent power negating all types of reality warping, including types that don't exist in a certain verse is a NLG to me. Also anyone who controls the narrative should be able to add as many layers below them as they want as they can edit it like a story, rendering cosmology size useless if two characters from different fictions have an R>F narrative layer type of cosmology.

Concerning the second sentence - which characters in the witches domain do that ? Witches by default already transcend the narrative hierarchy, they don't ignore it, they are just simply superior to it. The only person shown to ignore narrative layers is Battler.

Witches are not beyond all narrative layers. Otherwise they'd be immune to narrative abilities. They transcend all narrative layers below them. And overall we see things like Bernkastel being bound to game rules from territory lords. Willard H. Wright (before reaching CoB) being capable of battling Bernkastel and curb stomping her army with his sword. Everyone having to abide by game rules (excluding Aurora) regardless of whether they are a humans, territory lords, or voyagers. Combine that with the fact that hax like Truths are stated to be absolute and layer differences really stop mattering.

Umm... what ? Why would the reality warping on a conceptual level of truths be inferior to conceptual defenses of characters from Instant Death ?

Statements saying that hax like Truths are absolute. Everyone in the Witches Domain being on an archetypal permanent ladder created by and ending at the omnipotent entity of the verse, ect. If Yogiri can keep up with Truths, he is unfortunately facing Battler, meaning his version of Truths (even if on the same level as Battler's) will get negated by Endless Nine and thus leave Battler free reign to use his Truths without contradiction. I don't see how Yogiri can defend against narrative conceptual manipulation even if the potency of his abilities are the same. Yes he has narrative manipulation, but has his defenses dealt with such things? Battler's Golden Longsword also denies the concept of evasion, buying time, defending, enduring, ect.

Yes, in Umineko they are. But why wouldn't someone that's transconceptual be able to simply negg/ignore them ?

What is "transconceptual"? Does that mean transcending concepts? Because that's impossible and paradoxical, as that in itself is a concept. Even omnipotence is a concept. You cannot transcend all concepts entirely. That's impossible.

I doubt it's gonna be that much of a problem to kill off the concept of regeneration (I mean he already killed the concepts of momentum and gravity in his human form which aren't that different from regeneration on the abstract scale).

I don't understand how is the consciousness thing applicable, the death Yogiri inflicts is trans-conceptual since he has shown being able to kill concepts, not sure why would it be a problem to kill the concept of consciousness too or just completely erase him in the first place.

Effecting concepts does not mean you can effect all concepts. Killing off momentum and gravity has nothing to do with erasing the concept of regeneration.

He also has the True Form which inflicts Eldritch God level madness and insanity in it's user passively.

Don't really see this effecting the guy who is immune to Blue Key mind effects and has a strong enough mind and willpower to achieve Endless Nine as a mere meta human. Also don't really know what you mean by "Eldritch God level."

True, he has. But Truths work on a conceptual level.

And absolute conceptual level that can effect the narrative itself. What's your point? Again, you can't transcend all concepts if that's what you're getting at with "transconceptual."

I don't think his ability works via "Truth Manipulation", as I stated previously he has already been capable of bypassing conceptual defenses and killing abstract concepts.

Your problem here is that you're generalizing too much. Not everything falls under one thing. Just because you effect a certain set of concepts does not mean you can effect all the rest. Just because you can perhaps transcend certain concepts does not mean that you can transcend all concepts, as that in itself is a concept. Just because you have a conceptual defense does not mean it's the same as all types of conceptual defenses. Endless Nine rejects narrative changing concepts as being true at all and thus rendering them non-existent. It's not some generic conceptual defense that allows the user to tank conceptual attacks.

@divinemaster: You are right, I never stated he would lose any of his powers, just that depending on the definition of layer, someone being in a higher one would potentially be able to negate all the hax the lower layered opponent has.

Again, depends on the layer definition. It's equally NLF to say conceptual hax can affect any type of higher reality no matter how bigger it is.

Except there is no reason for raw power (metaphysical or not) to negate all forms of hax, including hax/concepts a verse doesn't even contain.

Yes, correct, they can edit an infinite amount of lower layers, but the amount and quality of those layers would still be limited by the capabilities of one editing them.

If a character can control the narrative layers below him, they can just add a bunch of more narrative layers of the same type that separates the lower layers from his own. Pretty much anyone that exist in a lower narrative layer can do this.

Also, with narrative transcendence you scale the verse starting from it's base layer (otherwise any random regular human would be infinitely transcendent infinite-D being or on the other end you would have every god tier being lower-dimensional fictional fodder depending if you wank or downplay it).

This is one of the reasons why cosmology tiering is nigh-useless. It's completely arbitrary.

Also, aren't Bernkastel and Lambda only bound to those rules because territory lords have complete control over their domains (unless, of course, a being from a higher domain comes like Feather) and are already on the level of Witches themselves .

Yes, but voyagers are far superior to territory lords in most scenarios and are above them by potentially infinite narrative layers, yet still can't screw with their game or domain without abiding by the rules. This is just backing up that no one in Umineko really gives a shit about narrative layer differences. Hell, the main property of the ladder in the Witches Domain and beyond is that it gets you closer to the boundless omnipotent god of the verse and frees you of restrictions the closer you get until you have no more. That's the main thing the ladder does and is the most impressive part about it. That's why Aurora can ignore game rules while voyagers can't, as she's transcended almost all restrictions including those.

Yes, within equalized AP (cosmology) they don't.

Headcanon. Cosmology is not the end all be all of metaphysics and abilities (unless it's Type IV). The ladder in the Witches Domain is qualitatively superior to basic metaphysical cosmologies that focus on bigger raw power transcendence. You don't just say complex narrative manipulation that doesn't even exist in most verses and ignores narrative layer differences gets negged by a bigger cosmology.

You contradicted yourself with your first 2 sentences. You said "hax like Truths are absolute" and then "will get negated by Endless Nine" which literally implies they aren't as absolute as you say they are.

Absolute in terms of potency. Meaning they cannot be negated by having a superior more powerful version of the same thing, as they are as powerful as you can get from a raw metaphysical power perspective. Not absolute in the sense of Truths are absolutely untouchable, unbeatable, cannot be defended against in any fashion. They can still be negated by something whose very nature counters Truths, such as Endless Nine. Likewise Truths are limited to a minor extent in versatility. An obvious example is you can't say something stupid like "I'm omnipotent" or something else lol-ish.

Yes, but we need to draw a line somewhere. This site isn't a philosophy debating site, it's for debating battles between anime/manga/comics/fictional works... which in most cases don't follow some of the real world philosophical ideas.

This isn't about following real world philosophical ideas. This is about following basic logic. Accepting completely illogical paradoxical impossibilities is like accepting beyond omnipotence types of nonsense. You have to draw a line for how far fiction can get away with stuff. Once we get to completely impossible and inexcusable claims and "feats," they have to be disregarded, like saying that a character hopped into the real world. Clearly impossible and thus no one would accept it.

I personally draw the line on transcending all non-recursive concepts and ones that imply contradictions and call that transconceptual. You can use your definition mentioned above, but then you would also need to concede that there aren't characters that absolutely control any (single or more)concept across every cosmology.

They aren't, nor did I ever claim they were. I'd say they'd lose to anyone in full control of a Type IV multiverse due to it containing literally everything logically possible. WTC characters are not unbeatable. Almost unbeatable in my opinion, but not completely.

It doesn't, but I was just showing an example of him being capable of doing so you get the rough idea of what I mean, I mean it's a recurring theme in the novel for him being able to do that, not sure why the concept of regeneration would be special.

Simply because it's not a concept he has dealt with. It's kinda like saying a physical quantum reality warper can tango with Yogiri just because he's a "reality warper" and thus can "reality warp" like Yogiri. It's too broad. Yogiri can effect the concepts he's shown to or reasonably could based off specific hax. But I've seen nothing suggesting that he can stop the concept of regeneration, as none of his hax give me the impression he can do that. Erasing some concepts does not mean you can erase others, as each concept's nature is entirely different from others. I'm just saying your line of thinking means either of these guys could technically erase all concepts of any kind just because they already have feats of erasing concepts in general.

No, I'm not generalizing, I do know when someone can affect a single concept or a small set of concepts, but as I said, it has been a recurring theme for this character to kill people with conceptual defenses and anything conceptual in nature with a single word. I'm not sure why we can't highball it to say he can affect any concept

Because it's baseless. I can go the extra mile too and say that Endless Nine negates anything possible and the scope of what it can negate is unlimited in all circumstances 100%. But I wouldn't because that's baseless. Again, does Yogiri even fight people who can effect the narrative on such vast and versatile levels such as Battler?

Wait, so are truths now on the level conceptual narrative changing or absolute level and yes I am aware it's not a generic conceptual defense.

Absolute in raw metaphysical power/potency. Not absolute in every way possible to the point it can't be countered or negated by something whose very nature counters it. It's absolute in one way (potency/power). And obviously they effect the narrative, which I don't think any concepts do in Yogiri's verse. His truths were just fate manipulation, yes? Narrative manipulation is qualitatively superior to concepts like those since it's effecting well... the narrative.

@divinemaster: What do you mean by raw power ? You already said Type IV multiverse can ignore hax (be it conceptual/methaphysical or not). So then why do you mention narrative layers and Type IV multiverse ? That's literally putting different verses in different cosmology tiers. If you use your logic you can just equate every infinite multiversal character and ignore the difference of how their multiverses are constructed.

A Type IV Multiverse is literally the end all be all of hax and cosmology both. Containing all things possible means that anyone in control of a vast extent of a Type IV Multiverse would have an absurd amount of hax and at the highest level. It's a really special type of cosmology considering it stomps in all regards. The size of it alone is not what makes it impressive. It's the fact that it contains all things possible, which again, would include every form of hax/reality warping possible. Hell to have 100% control of a Type IV Multiverse, you'd have to be omnipotent honestly.

Yes I said this in the paragraph you quoted already. And also explained how you should scale characters that do this.

Which is completely arbitrary rules to the highest extent.

You already explained how it's possible to edit infinite amounts of narrative layers below yourself making them irrelevant for power showing and now you bring it back up to argue how impressive it is for Umineko god-tiers to skip them ?

Never said it was impressive. You keep misinterpreting and adding random context to what I say. I just said that WTC specifically renders cosmology tiering even more irrelevant than it already is.

Then later on in this paragraph you contradict yourself about the point you made about cosmology being irrelevant when you mention Aurora can completely ignore layers because she is in a higher domain then them (superior standing in the cosmology).

I'm really questioning if you're actually reading anything I say and are just instead briefly skimming over the text... Re-read what I said. The only relevant part of the ladder is getting closer to omnipotence and getting freed of restrictions, which directly correlates to hax. The narrative layers themselves are irrelevant. The ladder in WTC is similar to a Type IV Multiverse in the sole regard of it actually being related to metaphysical hax and not just "Bigger size GG" nonsense.

Absolute in terms of potency... in their own cosmology (and by extension any that is not sufficiently superior to theirs)

Arbitrary headcanon to made up to suit a tiering system that not every fiction abides by.

For example, imagine someone from a Type IV multiverse wielding the same power like Truths where everything they say becomes real (rough explanation). Would you say that person would be affected by the truths used by anyone in Umineko ? And would you say that person wouldn't be able to completely overpower their truths usng only their own cosmologically superior version of truths just because they are stated to be absolute and need something that explicitly neggs them ?

If the Truth Manipulation from the Type IV character was the exact same in versatility as WTC Truths and were also absolute, then they'd cancel each other out due to being equal in everything. WTC characters could definitely tango with Type IV Multiverse hax even on the high-end. But the very tip top I'd say they fall short of simply due to the tip top logically having more versatile hax/sets of reality warping that should find some sort of hole/weakness/vulnerable spot of the WTC characters that'd have a slightly more restrictive set of hax. (Though honestly the gap isn't that huge considering the narrative manipulation in WTC is absurdly broad.) The amount of cosmology layers would be a non-factor. It's a matter of a Type IV Multiverse containing literally everything possible.

Exactly, that proves the metaphysical hax of truths isn't absolute like you initially claimed it to be (tho you corrected yourself in next response limiting it to potency).

I didn't "correct myself" as I thought it'd be obvious as to what I meant.

I literally "drew the line" in the way you described it in the next sentence of the paragraph you quoted............

Not really. You're still making broad assumptions and generalizing. Like how transcending certain concepts means you should transcend all concepts that aren't paradoxical/that you logically could. Or how effecting a set of concepts somehow means you can effect any (which you were saying whether you want to admit it or not).

You said that after my reply.

Don't really get what you're saying here.

So let me just post some scans since you aren't taking my words seriously:

Fate manipulation is useless + Yogiri being capable of killing any existence or phenomena:

Yeah, that's pretty impressive. If it operated on a level of absolute potency like Battler, he would stalemate. (Keep in mind I'm saying that Battler has superior potency based off Truths being absolute and Endless Nine scaling to that, not because of cosmology difference.) However his Truth Manipulation seems only in relation to killing the opponent and nothing else, meaning it's less versatile than Battler's Truths even if they were on the same level of potency. Him rejecting something as false is very impressive though and is similar to Endless Nine, which should make up for his "Die" ability being less versatile in use.

Killing beings which the concept of death doesn't even apply to:

Now that's paradoxical. If someone without the concept of death dies, then they clearly always had a concept of death. Them dying is just an anti-feat for their no concept of death claim.

I'm saying this for the 3rd and last time in this thread, the narrative layer difference and Endless 9 ignoring it is exactly why it was nerfed for this battle.

Again, you completely missed what I said. I said can he manipulate the narrative in vast (meaning versatile ways) like Battler? That question has nothing to do with narrative layer differences. Though you have answered this question up above with some scans. If we equalize their metaphysical potency then it would probably be a stalemate. They'd just reject everything the other person does.

So it is narrative manipulation or conceptual metaphysical hax ? As I said, Battler is nerfed to affect only the narrative he is in and Yogiri also has narrative protections of some sort...

Narrative manipulation is honestly just a form of conceptual manipulation but on a higher level from a quality standpoint of what it can effect, aka it should effect things on a deeper level that more basic concepts. But yeah, you've shown that Yogiri should be able to defend against Battler in a stats equalized battle. They'd just reject anything they throw at each other. Unfortunately for Yogiri, the OP said no cosmology advantages, which wasn't really a factor in the first place. So if I really wanted to, I could just say Battler overrides Yogiri's hax due to absolute potency which is unrelated to cosmology layers. However the OP's intent is clear that he wants stats to be equal entirely, even if he didn't word it the right way. So yeah, I'll go with stalemate here. Thanks for the scans.

Edit: The battles take places in the CoB, which I didn't originally notice. That'd automatically amp Yogiri to have Battler's level of potency regardless. So yeah, it's a definite stalemate. This dude is definitely impressive.

How the hell did I miss all of this

No just no? It's not an anti feat That's just how powerful/potent his ability is nothing else, those "who's the concept of death doesn't apply to" is a type of immortality that Yogiri can negate via instant Death as well as all other types of immortality such us : resurrection, regeneration, abstracts and true forms, beings who are already dead, beings who's the concept of death doesn't apply to, ..... Those are all types of immortality that Yogiri can negate via instant Death . On top of that Yogiri ability is Death manipulation and not truth manipulation

Since layers are equalized, I suppose Yogiri has better chances. He can kill being whom the concept of death doesn't apply to, so he can ignore Meta-Being Immortality and Instant Death will instantly activate due to Battler's intent of killing him at the start of the fight, so Instant Death can possibly kill him before Battler does anything. Though I am not sure if Instant Death can bypass Endless Nine, if it can't Battler will be able to deny Yogiri.

Endless Nine is like Power Nullification right? If that's so then Yogiri has resistance to Power Null and he also has power null on his own and is even faster then passives so Unless Battler is also faster then passives, Yogiri would just blitz

@divinemaster: Also, the hierarchy in Umineko has a start (the bottom human domain layer) and an end (creator). So any statement of it being infinite/endless can't be taken as absolute because it's contradicted by it's structure.

The "end" is just total boundlessness. Its when transcendence no longer matters and is the allievation of all concepts (like infinity) and restrictions, which is why lambdadelta refers to it as "0" and that they lose even the restriction of their own meaning, they are no longer grounded at all. Humans cannot create wishes that are beyond their limited mindsets, so they are lowly creatures, which is why lambdadelta refers to them as beings tossed around by fate. The world of witches is akin to infinite hierarchical layers. Witches accept restrictions so they do not lose their ground, but the more power a witch desires, the more restrictions they are alleviated from

One more example would be the statement about Beato's catbox having endless possibilities but then there's also a scan of a possibility being locked in a bigger catbox...

That's because beatrice created infinite possibilities around the premise of what would happen between the most important days on the island. which are just two days. The catbox that lion was in held possibilities around lion not being "born" as sayo and 19 years before what happened on the island So technically it would be "bigger".

@omega7373663: endless 9 is not power nullification. It's a barrier of denial or disbelief capable of defending Battler to anything he doesn't believe in weather it be magic or anyone's entire existence. So Battler would still be able to neg Yogiri's negs. At best it is able to skip narratives defending Battler from 3 overlord cats, each being infinitely stronger than Battler and maybe even Featherine who sees Battler as fiction. But I nerfed it to only reach current and lower narratives just to even the battlefield

What you said now is literally power null, like I said it's a barrier that power null any supernatural ability that battler doesn't believe in it and I also need to know if it's passive or not

@omega7373663: either way I don't think Yogiri can still bypass endless 9 since the red truth that denies all concepts in purpose of denying its opponent's existence got neg by endless 9. It can work passively as well since it doesn't really need much of an activation. Battler can simply ignore anything and endless 9 will do the work just like how the overlord cats and Featherine aren't capable of interfering with Battler's story. Also truths work as death manipulation as well since u can use truths to kill someone or erase their existence like how Battler did with Kinzo in episode 5 and with more than thousands of theory goats in episode 8, same with Ange against Bernkastel.

It is more like complete immunity, Endless Nine is peak of Anti-Magic Resistance whihc in itself is Power Nullification. Though Battler isn't faster than passives, if Yogiri is he indeed stomps.

@asuva: I don't think being faster than passive's can help bypass endless 9. The barrier is always active. If Battler doesn't even notice instant death, then endless 9 would just block it. I had to nerf endless 9 in this battle due to it's ability to skip narratives.

No? Someone who is faster then passives would blitz even if the ability is already active

@omega7373663: im still not convinced. Battler tanked an attack from Featherine's overlord cats who were all to be infinitely stronger than him and maybe even Featherine herself since she can't even interfere at all as long as Battler kept ignoring her. Another thing is the fact that Instant Death can also clash with Golden Truth as it destroys all concepts in purpose of erasing it's opponent's existence, thus both having immeasurable speed. This is assuming that we nerf Battler's Endless 9 to even the battlefield because Yogiri has no feats for beating anyone from higher narratives.