Ata vs Goku(namek)

Let's see, Ata is physically far superior. His clone was casually moon level through sheer brute force and his real body above that is much stronger. Even if we lowball to the extreme and say his real body is just moon level at its peak, his Princess can amp him dozens of times over that. Even with huge massive lowball, he is Large Planet level+ physically speaking.

Then comes his holder which is fitted with weapon that busted three planets casually. Each capable of busting a Large Planet of 10,000KM radius. Even without that, Ata himself is confirmed to be able to bust Planets himself. Even if we ignore that, A Samurai can fuse with his holder and use their weapons on their own body as shown by Daruma who fused with his ship holders thrusters to fly... or when Hachimaru used Hayataro's thrusters on his arm to swing faster.

Apart from that is his biggest advantage, his cutting prowess. Every single one of a Samurai's attack is sub-atomic in nature. Goku definitely does not have piercing resistance at a sub-atomic level. Then there is the other hax Ata has like time delay, regen etc.

The only advantage Goku has so far is that Ata lacks some speed feats. He only has one. And somehow, even if Goku manages to win by flying around and Ki spamming... which is not in character for him. Ata can programme his ship to bust the Planet anyway via his A.I since he can survive in space but Goku cannot.

Ata wins 8/10.

@wot_m8: “Let's see, Ata is physically far superior. His clone was casually moon level through sheer brute force and his real body above that is much stronger. Even if we lowball to the extreme and say his real body is just moon level at its peak, his Princess can amp him dozens of times over that. Even with huge massive lowball, he is Large Planet level+ physically speaking.”

There’s an argument for Goku being that strong too. Frieza in his first form was a casual planet buster by all definitions, and in his final form, his attacks were getting deflected by Goku’s bare hands.

@cocacolaman: Frieza was but by DC. Frieza has never once shown anything on that level with sheer physical force. That is one downside of DBZ characters. Their power is all about KI, without it, they are not physically that strong. Not to mention, Goku never blocked a Planet buster from Frieza with his body. He used his KI attacks everytime Frieza went to that level.

Frieza only used two planet busters in that fight and stated his intentions each time... one was absorbed by the Spirit bomb... the other was shot at the Planet's core.

Even if we agree that Goku in physicals is Ata's equal which he does not have the feats for... Goku still lacks any piercing resistance at a sub-atomic level. Ata's casual attacks chopped the moon and his range is ridiculous. I doubt Goku would not get hit even once.

Ata is massively faster in just his soul Form traveling from one side of the galaxy to another in a short time. He will slice Goku into pieces.

@wot_m8: There’s a scan of Goku, using nothing but his bare hands, blocking Frieza’s death beams. Since a far weaker Frieza was a casual planet buster, I don’t see how this would be less than planet busting power, and that was just base Goku, not even KaioKen.

Yes, but none of those Death beams are Planetary considering all of them were deflected by Goku nearby and yet the Planet never exploded. Not to mention, Frieza was also massively holding back at this time. He wasn't using a quarter of his power... why would he throw several Planet busters against someone he considers a weak insect? There is zero evidence to suggest Frieza's death beams are Planetary. Not to mention, a much stronger Frieza used the same move against SSJ Goku who dodged like a dozen of them, yet Namek was not destroyed.

Not every attack done by Frieza is Planet level. That is issue with KI. You never know how much effort is being put into an attack until we are told or shown.

And once again, not that it would matter. Even if I do agree that Goku is Ata's equal in physicals... how does it help him survive having his atoms cut?

@wot_m8: atacks that hurt namek goku are above friezas first form best atacks since he wouldnt be able to kill a far stronger goku.

brolys countless ki blast also didnt destroy anything noteworthy and he is massivly over the top lowballed thousands of times stronger than first form frieza unless you believe a broly in rage somehow held back to 1/100000 of his power for no reason.

Ssb gogetas ki blasts also didnt destroy anything noteworthy.

i thought the broly movie made it clear once and for all?

@arthur_morgan: SSB Gogeta is not even relevant here, nor is Broly.

They also made it quite clear they are not always firing off one hundred percent... even when Frieza did blast Namek, he had to fire off at its core implying he was not in the condition to just blast it in one go. Not to mention, KI=/=Physical attributes. Btw, Broly's attacks not busting the Planet outright actually is in my favor as that is what I was saying. Not every attack a DBZ character fires off is a planet buster... Also, Gogeta kinda busted the dimension and his final Kamehameha was geared towards the sky.

Ata being large Planet is also a massive lowball when his clone alone is casual moon level. His real body is a confirmed planet buster with the footage of said planet exploding in Daruma's background... add to that the dozens of times amp, add to that his Armor ship... Ata is very easily Multi-Planetary in physical stats.

Also, as I keep saying like a broken record... even if Goku was Ata's equal in physical stats which he is not... Goku still has zero defense against having his atoms cut to pieces. You guys conveniently keep ignoring that part.

@joviolma:

Goku one shots.

@wot_m8: Goku can tank large planet level+ ki attacks that vaporize you on a cellular/atomic level(as shown when a kamehameha vaporizes cell who can regenerate from literally 1 cell). So unless ata has feats above that level I don't see his atomic slice working on goku.

@mattyboi: For one,tanking energy attacks does not make you resistant to piercing. Like that is not debating works... at all. Second, Namek Goku does not scale to SSJ2 Gohan, pure idiocy. Thirdly, yes, where was it ever stated that Cell was erased at atomic level? He only needed to be destroyed at a Cellular level for him not to be able to regenerate... so, wrong on all accounts.

Ata still chops Goku in pieces.

@wot_m8: I was referring to goku tanking ki attacks for the atomic thing.

Never said goku scales to ssj2 gohan, I was saying their ki attacks work the same, since it's the same attack just from different people.

Fair enough on that last point though.

And does Ata have any FTL combat speed feats? Because if not goku blitzes and one shots before ata gets a chance to slice him.

@wot_m8: frieza held to much back as stated.

Imagin holding to much back and STILL destroy the planets core.

logic is beyond some ppl.

first form frieza casualy destroyed a planet on screen thats why broly and gogetas examples are relevant.

i can tell you have no idea what you are talking about.

so ssb gogeta literaly held back to 1/1000000000000 of his power vs broly.

ok.

you have no idea how db works , what a waste of time.

@arthur_morgan: Your superior logic honestly just blew my mind. I bow to your excellence.

@wot_m8: easy.

@mattyboi: I know but as I said, KI does not erase your atoms based on Cell's death since his regeneration was only cellular... and the fact that tanking energy=/= piercing resistance.

As for Ata's speed feat, that is the one wonky issue. Ata's clone was MFTL++ since he flew from one Galactic Quadrant to another within one day all while clearing Asteroid fields, engaging other Samurai fleets. The issue is, that fight got off-paneled, so we only saw Ata blitzing two characters before his clone got haxxed to death. He is definitely fast enough to not get blitzed at all. His holder which he can fuse with is also MFTL and can bust Planets from a distance that makes the explosions look like tiny specks in seconds... so, it's weapons are also easily FTL.

I honestly do not see Namek Saga Goku winning this. It just is highly improbable. He would need IT at least to make it a fair fight otherwise he would get cut by Ata... or his time attacks. He can manipulate his attacks in time... he can swing his sword at you but nothing will happen until he wants it to... and all of the sudden you are cut in half.

That is how he cut the moon. He swung his sword and flew away. 6-7 chapters later, the moon got sliced in half in an instant with no explanation or reason.

Ata and it's not close. If he goes into Dragon Holder he drops 3 supernovas from the deep space and takes the W without moving a finger.

@wot_m8: Yeah sure.

I said specifically COMBAT speed, I know Ata has FTL travel speed feats but combat speed is way different. So yeah, unless you wanna show me combat/reaction speed feats from ata that are FTL then goku blitzes. Also SSJ goku is MFTL+ since SSJ is a 50x multiplier on top of base that's already FTL.

@mattyboi: Those are applicable in combat. He did clear asteroid fields while top speed showing his reaction and blitzed Daruma and Muujin at top speed showing he is capable of fighting at that speed.

You wanna show what FTL combat Goku has at Namek? Don't say FTL KI because that has beek debunked to death.

@wot_m8:

Those are applicable in combat. He did clear asteroid fields while top speed showing his reaction and blitzed Daruma and Muujin at top speed showing he is capable of fighting at that speed.

Thats travel speed, not combat speed... nor is it reaction speed... travel speed and combat speed is way different.

You wanna show what FTL combat Goku has at Namek? Don't say FTL KI because that has beek debunked to death.

You wanna show that debunk, because I had a guy try to debunk it and it was pure headcanon..

@mattyboi: Last I checked blitzing people was a combat speed. And pray tell, how is reacting to Asteroids while flying at them at MFLT speeds and cutting them not a reaction feat?

Gods, apparently reacting to someyhing is not reaction feat anymore.

Oh? FTL KI? Yup then... Kid Goku is FTL apparently, so are the bullets that hit him, and all the fodders who reacted to his KI back in DB. Makes perfect sense. Crane is FTL, so is General Blue, so is Kid Krillin. You gonna keep spouting BS all day? Goku is not FTL period unless you got some actual frats other than crap. You have been deflecting, and have not provided one single answer to how Goku survives one single slash that will cut his atoms.

@wot_m8:

Last I checked blitzing people was a combat speed. And pray tell, how is reacting to Asteroids while flying at them at MFLT speeds and cutting them not a reaction feat?

Because flying at MFTL speeds would amp your reaction speed, so he'd have to be flying to do that. And do the people he blitzed have FTL reaction speed? Because if not then it proves nothing.

Oh? FTL KI? Yup then... Kid Goku is FTL apparently, so are the bullets that hit him, and all the fodders who reacted to his KI back in DB. Makes perfect sense. Crane is FTL, so is General Blue, so is Kid Krillin. You gonna keep spouting BS all day? Goku is not FTL period unless you got some actual frats other than crap. You have been deflecting, and have not provided one single answer to how Goku survives one single slash that will cut his atoms.

What? Ki only got FTL when piccolo blew up the moon... Piccolo's blast would be 1/2 the speed of light, in which piccolo gets much faster and stronger since then. In fact even raditz react to piccolo's ki attacks. And goku can react to faster ki attacks.

And what are feats for this sword? Because if it's only moon level then it's not hurting goku.

@mattyboi: Roshi blew up the moon back in DB... and every human reacted to that. Even the Goddamn announcer did. KI being FTL is pure idiocy. Even Gohan with no training reacted to Piccolo's KI blast, so Kid Gohan is FTL too?

And no, if I am running at 50 miles an hour would not make my reactions at that level. That is not how science works. You are reaching hard.

Hell, that is not the only feat he has either. Daruma has sensory abilities that allowed him to dense people in outer space while he was on the surface. He himself is fast enough to fly from the ground to outer space in seconds, carry Ata himself to a distance that his Multi-Continental attack did not affect the people standing near him in seconds.. yet he was unable to sense Ata before he flew to the planet, located Hachimaru and blitzed the f out of him. His Holder is FTL at the very least as well.

I changed my mind, Goku literally has no advantage at all.

I already told you lol, his sword cuts Atoms, no amount of fangirling or deflecting allows Goku piercing resistance feats at the atomic level. His sword could literally Mountain level... if Goku does not have Atomic piercing resistance, he dies. That is how hax works.

@wot_m8: Goku intercepted light twice on namek in a dying body..

@bossmountain said:

@wot_m8: Goku intercepted light twice on namek in a dying body..

The light produced from a technique does not make it light speed unless it is stated to be light speed. That is the equivalent of saying any lightning-based attack produced by any character is lightning speed. By that logic, even Natsu is light speed because he dodged Light speed-based attacks and Naruto is MFTL because he dodged a light-based attack point-blank. Via that logic, even the fodders in Samurai 8 would be Light speed because they were able to react to the moon being damaged based off the Light Ata left behind after flying off.

Not to mention if Goku was FTL in that moment, he would have circled Namek in like a second flying at top speed yet it took him an entire chapter to reach Frieza from the ship... even though the ship was right by there according to the map.

I am not going to explain everything. This thread does a good enough job to do so.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/debunking-goku-being-ftl-on-namek-1870730/

Hell, one more that debunks Goku being FTL based on Piccolo's FTL KI is that it took Goku 177 days to travel the snake way which 1 Million KM. If he was LS... well, lemme just say it would not have taken him even near that amount of time to cover that distance.

@wot_m8:

Roshi blew up the moon back in DB... and every human reacted to that. Even the Goddamn announcer did. KI being FTL is pure idiocy. Even Gohan with no training reacted to Piccolo's KI blast, so Kid Gohan is FTL too?

They didn't react to the blast itself, they just saw it.

Yes, Kid Gohan is FTL, he's literally Goku's son and at age 4(or around there) had a MUCH higher power level then BOTH Piccolo and Goku who could produce FTL ki blasts.

And no, if I am running at 50 miles an hour would not make my reactions at that level. That is not how science works. You are reaching hard.

Your perception of time would slow though. Einstein's theory of special relativity says that time slows down or speeds up depending on how fast you move relative to something else. Take being in a car for example, cars outside look like they move extremely slow while when you're stopped or just standing there cars just zoom by. That same logic would apply to Ata's feat.

Hell, that us not the only feat he has either. Daruma has a sensory abilities that allowed him to dense people in outer space while he was on the surface. He himself is fast enough to fly from the ground to outerspace in seconds, carry Ata himself to a distance that his Multi-Continental attack did not affect the people standing near him in seconds.. yet he was unable to sense Ata before he flew to the planet, located Hachimaru and blitzed the f out of him. His Holder is FTL at the very least as well.

Cool, that ability has literally nothing to do with speed though.

Again, that's travel speed, not reaction speed, nor is it FTL. Piccolo's ki attack is much faster than that.

I already told you lol, his sword cuts Atoms, no amount of fangirling or deflecting allows Goku piercing resistance feats at atomic level.

I mean, Goku's atoms do tank multi planet level+ attacks. Though Goku doesn't have any piercing resistance feats so I'll give you this. The problem is that Ata has no way to tag or react to Goku's attacks, nor does he have feats to tank them.

@wot_m8:

Hell, one more that debunks Goku being FTL based on Piccolo's FTL KI is that it took Goku 177 days to travel the snake way which 1 Million KM. If he was LS... well, lemme just say it would not have taken him even near that amount of time to cover that distance.

Why are you using travel speed feats to debunk combat/reaction speed feats? They have nothing to do with each other. lmao.

@wot_m8:

How is reacting to something, not a reaction feat? How? And Kid Gohan FTL? Are you serious right now? Tell me this then my dear friend... how exactly did it take FTL Goku 177 days to travel 1million KM on the snake way? If he was FTL... using simple maths, it would take him 0.00333564095.

Because combat speed/reaction speed has literally nothing to do with travel speed, so no idea why you're using the snake way thing to debunk him being FTL..

Did you not read what I posted? I literally explained to you how kid Gohan is easily FTL.

And tanking something is not a piercing resistance.

Again, did you not read my post? I literally said Goku has no piercing resistance feats so I'll give you that point, but you're yet to prove how that sword is tagging Goku.

FTL Saiyan Saga pre-training Kid Gohan. You win brother, I honestly cannot compete with that. That is beyond science.

@wot_m8:

FTL Saiyan Saga pre-training Kid Gohan. You win brother, I honestly cannot compete with that. That is beyond science.

And you're still yet to debunk it.

I love this cite, when people can't debunk something they act like it's wrong even when they can't prove that it's wrong to make themselves look better. Sigh.

Like I said bro, I cannot. This is beyond me. This is like Nuclear science while I am at the Highschool level. You win.

@wot_m8: Also when does Gohan even react to piccolo's blast? I don't remember it and I searched youtube for the training and I can't find it.

Bruh, as I said, this is beyond me. I already gave up. Saiyan Saga Gohan is FTL... so, please stop tagging me? I lose, you win.

@wot_m8:

except it was stated to be literal light.

Naruto and natsu aim doging light and intercepting light are to different things . Also many do think Natsu has ftl combat speed.

goku timed and jump in front this "dazzling light" faster than it can reach it target. Simliar to sliver chariot.

also trying to debunk combat speed with travel speed doesn't work.

Like I said to the other guy, I agree with him. Kid Gohan from Saiyan Saga is totally FTL... therefore, Namek saga Goku is 1000000000x FTL... You guys win. GG. Please stop tagging me now.

i didn't say all that.

Boy I was just wondering about this match up yesterday lol

You missed that part I highlighted in bold. Now, please. Peace, I tire of this thread.

Ata wins this.

Ata has Speed,Hax and Power.

What does Goku have at that point?The only advantage he has in versus battles is his strength and speed,his opponent is superior to him.

Goku gets curbed along with Vegeta and Final Form Frieza.

They won't even react to his MFTL Sub-Atomic slashes from thousands of kilometers away.

Ata has massive speed advantage here

World of Death or can't survive from Sub-Atomic/Soul Katana.

Goku stomps with large star level blasts

Ata oneshots

Goku oneshots