Naruto and Sasuke's Last Fight disappointed me a bit. Expected them both to go all out.

Does OP not realize that road to the ninja, and narutos fight with mental aren't canon? Also, you can't expect them to go through every power up they have from weakest to strongest. It makes more sense to just go straight to the powerful forms. They were trying to overpower each other, not showcase and flaunt power ups (and since they're both familiar with each other's techniques, there's no need to pussyfoot with weaker forms to test out each other)

Does someone really think that base Naruto should have lasted against Sasuke for more than a couple of seconds ?

@mudamudamuda: Dude.......you're back.....thank god.

You won't believe what I've had to go through in this thread. Lol

Not officially back yet lol

And yeah, it seems like a lot has happened since I last logged in...

I gurantee all the things I ask you to prove in this, you will either ignore. Or think you're proving it by saying something like "not true" or "no". You wont provide evidence from the show, or explain your bull with good reasoning and events from the show. You never have. I doubt you will now.

And again you miss the reply button. Let me guess, afraid huh?

Uhm.. df are you talking about? Lmao

Seriously, a three year old would be able to grasp the point I'm making, The fact that you can't says something.

There's something I'm missing? Well stop beating around the bush and just tell me then. No one's tryna play the guessing game with you.

I can, considering I could analyze their fight without anyone holding my hand while you can't.

Then you'd know Naruto blocked 80% of the things Sasuke did in that taijutsu fight. Only reason Sasuke got hits off is because of the sharingan.

Why is your baseless hypothesis based on nothing? Because you don't have any evidence to back it up other than your blatant bias towards Naruto.

Oh.. oh... so the videos aren't evidence? Nor the moments I told you? Yeah stop with the bullcrap. You're the only one here who's provided no evidence. 0.

Any of their spars we see in flashbacks when they were kids.

What does their fights AS KIDS have to do with their OLDER... MORE MATURE... MORE DEVELOPED the "NOW" fights? You DO realize their fights as kids does not mirror their fights now since they both got better and...even Sasuke said it "aren't the same two kids like before". Right? Naruto has obtained taijutsu and more jutsu and so has Sasuke.. so you don't say stupid #### like that. Don't be stupid. If Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali fought as newbies and Muhammad beat Mike Tyson's ### so badly.. but there's a timeskip and they have gotten better and obtained new moves.. you don't say "Mike Tyson will lose because he was outclassed when he was younger".

Know why you retard? Because the past doesn't matter. The "now" does. You don't base something off of something that is long forgotten and irrelevant at this point. Do you get it now????

If you make any retarded posts about them being "kids" again I swear to goodness....you're just a retard. Through and through you're retarded.

Other than that, Sasuke doesn't fight without using Sharingan, which is why you can't claim that Naruto is better than him at taijutsu without it. See how evidence works?

At least I made a hypothesis, you just kept spamming "sasuke is better". No hypothesis, no evidence. You don't even have a reason for why. But I'll say it once more:

Naruto has shown growth in taijutsu now(as I proved in the videos above) than back when they were kids because post-timeskip Naruto didn't know taijutsu until after the timeskip where Jariya taught him.

And we have seen..1 small skippet of Sasuke doing something without his sharingan... and he paid an ultimate price for it because his sharingan gives him unfair advantage in fighting since he can react to things and stop them before they're executed. Here's the snippet of Sasuke's sharingan running out and finally Naruto is able to hit him. What did you think "fair and square" meant when Naruto told Sasuke "I wanna beat you fair and square"? This. Here it is though:

Without his sharingan, how do you think that would have ended? Naruto dead or Naruto dodging it. Because of his sharingan he stops things and that crap is like a huge buff in taijutsu. So this small 15 second long clip shows if he didn't his his sharingan during that taijtusu fight earlier.. Naruto would have hit Sasuke a lot more.

The only one acting like an idiot is the one who thinks knowing a future event makes a person more skilled.

Really? Cause you're the idiot who said(these exact words):

No. You didn't.

You posted a video and said "Here's Naruto fighting. He's better than Sasuke."

I've already seen their final fight. Sasuke was better in taijutsu.

You said those exact words. What did you mean by "better"? Hmm? I wanna hear this. Lemme see you twist it up like "Oh oh nah i didnt mean that i actually meant". Stop with the excuses. You just contradicted yourself.

Watched it and read it multiple times. Which is why I know more than you.

Evidently not. And it's a damn shame you're this ignorant after watching and reading "multiple times".

And how does that in any way disprove what I said? He still needs to stay still, clone or not, to gather Nature energy.

Nope. He doesn't need to stay still. Know what? Prove it. Give me a time where Naruto needed to stay still so his clone could gather energy. Even in Naruto v Pain fight, he was fighting while his clone was gethering energy and didn't need to be still to obtain it. All he had to do was let his clone get the energy while the real naruto was fighting, and when the Clone is full of energy, it'll disappear, passing that energy to the real Naruto that is indeed moving and or fighting.

But give me some proof of Naruto needing to stand still "clone or not". I wanna see this.

Instead of trying to sound like you actually know the series, make sure you can read a sentence first.

Ironic when you're the one who said something, I debunk it and you reply with "what does that have to do with this?"...when anyone with a brain could see how it's relevant.

Yes, why don't you do that. Show me in three different fights Naruto immediately making a clone to go and gather Nature energy for him. So me three different fights where that's the very first thing he does against his opponent.

Ok.

He wasn't in sage mode at the time and his clone was in a different world which is why he needed to summon him. But yeah, he summoned his clone and his clone was gathering energy this whole fight, and he got the energy his clone had. You didn't watch this series. Stop pretending you have. You can't even remember anything about it. I bet you're some DBZ fanboy who just watched naruto v Sasuke fights and is just here trolling. I sure hope that's the case. Because it's obvious you've never watched this show. Or read it.

Doesn't matter if it's canon or not. It's proof he can do it. He was locked in a cell and when released, he let his clone do the Nature gathering while he went to find the secrets of the box. And eventually his clone disappeared, and all the energy went to the real Naruto.

And the third is in the fight you supposedly watched "multiple times"(which is just an outright lie.. but anyway):

Had a clone, this time of Kurama, gathering energy. But in this he just happened to be standing still. But Kurama was gathering energy since they went into Kyuubi/Susano'o form.

You got yet to provide evidence of the things you say. Lmao.

1) He teleported his Susanoo. He can definitely teleport an attack that is smaller than an object he already teleported.

2) He can easily teleport those attacks. All he has to do is see them.

Looks like you don't even know what Sasuke can do, yet you're still crying about Naruto not using his abilities to the fullest. Great job.

Lol. This guy... this is literally the only thing you proved me wrong in and you're so full of yourself. You feel accomplished, don't you? I proved you wrong in pretty much everything and you're too stupid to even realize you're stupid.

This is honestly the weakest argument I've ever seen for a Naruto fanboy. Complaining about Sasuke using his Sharingan is basically the same thing as me complaining about Naruto using Nine Tails chakra.

You haven't done anything to prove Naruto is better besides posting a video and saying "Yeah Naruto is better because I say so". You're debating is a joke, tbh. Until they actually do fight in your so-called "EQUAL" battle of taijutsu, you can't make the claim that Naruto is better. Especially since you've so easily proven how biased you are.

"You haven't done anything to prove Naruto is better". I stopped reading there because you don't know how to read. In my last two comments I VERY OBVIOUSLY pointed out and singled out "Naruto is at least equal to Sasuke in taijutsu. Only reason Sasuke looks so good is because of his sharingan." But then you went full retard mode..again... and said "you didnt prove naruto is better"... NOT MY POINT...

Do you seriously not know that post means "after"? Post-timeskip is after Naruto trained with Jiraiya. And if you could actually read instead of gloss over and go back to bitching, you'd have noticed that I said "Naruto has done nothing post-timeskip (that means after his training) to suggest that he's suddenly better than Sasuke at taijutsu."

Go back to elementary and learn to read.

I'm not gonna lie I misinterpreted "post" with "pre". Everyone makes their mistakes. ;P Deal with it.

This is rich. So now you're claiming Sasuke didn't train in taijutsu because......what? Because we didn't get a filler episode that showed him doing so?

Again, your knowledge, or lack of, of the series is laughable.

Well, this is entertaining. To be honest, since you're so much more knowledgeable in this show than I am I said that to see what you'd say in return. We did get a filler episode with Sasuke training taijutsu. Wanted to see if you'd remember it. You didn't. Then turn around in your current post and say "I watched it multiple times" just shows you're lying. Because they did show Sasuke doing it. he was with orochimaru on a rooftop and orochimaru I think summoned or brought a lot of people go against Sasuke. Sasuke took'em all out without killing them.

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop acting like you know things when you don't.

Which he only did with prior knowledge. The same thing he had against Pain.

Prove he had prior knowledge. Don't say it. Prove it. You won't prove anything because you can't.

He figured it out on his own. He used his observation skills and remembered that scar on his chest and created a strategy to beat him.

Like what? Reverse Sexy jutsu? Waiting until she was in front of him to break out of the ice to attack her? Those aren't strategies, let alone good ones.

Prove it isn't a strategy.

First off, it was a great strategy. Secondly. It is a strategy. Just not one that your dumb### approves of. Even Kakashi himself says it.. "Well.. naruto has always been unexpectedly cunning". But from someone who watched and read the show multiple times, you probably don't remember that either.

With prior knowledge. The same thing he had against Pain.

He never had prior knowledge. He got just more skilled and put Kakashi in situations he couldn't get out of and it wasn't because of prior knowledge.

But go ahead. Prove it's prior knowledge.

And? He's not a master strategist because of that. These examples are getting worse and worse with each one. You really need to learn what you're talking about.

Never said he was a master. My point is he's a good strategist. Face it. And they're not getting worse. They're getting better, but they're frustrating you. Each and every event I mentioned had him using strategies. But for the sake of your argument and your pride in your way, you'll never admit to it. But it's fine. People will always be in denial like you.

Because he already had previous knowledge.

Funny how almost every single instance of Naruto creating strategies involves him already knowing information on his opponent.

Had prior knowledge? Prove it. You can't.

Blood Prison isn't even Canon.

LOL how embarrassing.

But the fight on the rooftops is? All of a sudden canon is relevant now but a few posts ago you was all for filler. LMAO!! Damn right your #### is embarrassing!! XD

Yeah, all those strategies wouldn't have even been thought up if Naruto didn't know the information he needed beforehand.

Try harder. This is just getting easier and easier.

Yeah, he would have figured it out. He even almost beat Sai with their quarrels with strategies. Just face it.. god damn you're such a hater.. XD You're the kind of person who would have all the facts laid out in front of him and still say "lmao try harded u suck none of these mean anything"... when it means everything. You haven't shown or given reasons why it wouldn't be a strategy.

You haven't proven a single thing. All you've done is whine, ignore common sense, and repeatedly misunderstand a basic, fifth-grade conecpt.

It's funny that you think you've proven something, though.

This statement is ironic. It's you who's whining, ignoring facts and common sense, and for some reason doesn't know sharingan is the reason Sasuke even did so good in taijutsu.

1) Naruto and Sasuke have never fought when Sasuke didn't use the Sharingan (when they're older), yet you think that not having evidence to prove that Naruto is better than Sasuke actually means that Naruto is better than Sasuke. You have no proof to back your bullcrap comments, yet try to insult mine? And lol at a "hypothesis". You probably don't even know what that means, considering you don't even know what "post-timeskip" means.

2) I find it amazing how you claim to watch the series but can get so many simple things wrong. It's astounding.

1) I had evidence. You just chose to ignore it and say "it isn't evidence" like your word automatically makes something true.

2) I got nothing wrong besides the Rinnegan part and the post-timeskip part. Which boosted your fragile ego by a long shot.

So plot has nothing to do with why the main character of the series beat a clearly superior opponent.

This debate is probably one of the stupidest ones I've had on this site.

Pain wasn't superior. Prove it.

Let's just forget all the "whys" and "hows" huh? Sure we can go with that. Sasuke also beat Itachi, but we don't need to know that Itachi was going blind, sick and dieing, and purposely threw the fight to rid Sasuke of Orochimaru and give him Amaterasu? Let's just forget all of that.

Ok. Since Itachi threw a fight. Pain did to? You think he isn't going serious to capture and obtain the last key to his whole plan he spent years and years preparing? You think he wouldn't go serious despite destroying the whole leaf village? You think Naruto didn't outsmart him using common sense? Ok. Prove it.

Your kindergarten-level of understanding of events is hilarious.

Explain how stabbing someone through their torso hands, and legs to make'em stay still isn't going serious then. Go ahead.

That's the worst analogy. People at school aren't trying to kill each other. Ninjas in Naruto are.

I can literally feel my brain cells dieing after reading what you're writing.

1) Then explain why Naruto hasn't killed anybody on purpose yet.

2) Your brain cells are dying because you've never experienced common sense, facts, and logic before in your life since you've debunked your own #### like 3 times now.

Lol you're clearly confused. What's wrong, are these words too big for you?

I never said Pain didn't take Naruto seriously, I said he wasn't going all out, i.e. he wasn't trying to kill him. That's completely different than Naruto not taking Sasuke seriously.

Naruto was fighting on the defensive. Pain was holding back because he needed Naruto alive. If you can't see the difference between those two situations, you shouldn't even be debating here.

Pain was going all out. Going all out doesn't always mean "Someone must be trying to kill someone then". Going all out is doing whatever necessary to achieve your goals. Like killing those frogs..destroying the leaf.. stabbing someone to the floor... death isn't necessary to be going all out.

What facts? When has Naruto fought Sasuke without the Sharingan and won? Unless you can show me an instance of that, you're "facts" are nothing but a fanboy's biased opinion.

It's not opinion. What I did was assume you know Sasuke's taijutsu level.. which you need to know to even participate in this argument and make sense. And I posted Naruto's taijutsu moments(some) to let you see them and determine "Well, from Sasuke's taijutsu moments to Narutos, they go look kind of equal". But apparently you can't think for yourself. You need to stop calling other people things that you are. You've yet to prove anything.

No, what I'm doing is stating what the manga has already shown us: that Sasuke is better at taijutsu. It's not my fault your pea-sized brain can't comprehend that.

When has the manga shown us that? How can you even determine that even though Naruto has gotten extraordinarily better at taijutsu? Naruto and Sasuke are equals in taijutsu bruh..

Lol everything I said has been shown in the manga. Don't believe me? Try reading it.

I watched the show. Don't believe me? Watch it.

What facts? You haven't provided anything. You posted videos with nothing but "here's a video, Naruto is better".

Even your hypothesis, which you claim is backed up by facts, isn't backed up by facts. If they were, show me a scan or video of Naruto beating Sasuke in taijutsu without Sasuke using the Sharingan. You already said you can't because they haven't fought like that.

Stop contradicting yourself.

Never said Naruto was better. Said they're equal. How many times must I say it again before your nonexistent brain comprehends it? And I provided everything. Moments, videos, facts. Provided it all. You provided nothing but complaints, statements where for some reason I should "take your word for".

So after three replies of saying "Having the Sharingan makes you more skilled at taijutsu" you're all of a sudden jumping ship and now trying to claim that it doesn't make you more skilled?

Pick a damn side and stick with it.

Never made 3 replies saying that. I said he's better because of it. sigh... You just can't stop stupid. Trying to educate you is like showing logic to a wall.

If Sasuke knew what was going to happen before it happened, why was Bee able to tag him? Why was Danzo able to grab him neck and place a seal on him? Why was Madara able to grab him with Limbo and stab him? Why was Juubito able to grab his forehead and almost kill him? Why was Darui able to land a water jutsu against him? Why was Kakashi able to kick him?

I thought you said that 99.9999% of the time he would prevent them from even doing it, so what happened in all those above mentioned times?

You know what, don't answer that. I can only take so many headaches in one day.

Be tagged him because Sasuke was looking at waay too many objects at once all coming at once. A bunch of swords? Prior the swords, Bee never hit Sasuke.

> throws a tantrum because Kishi didn't write the final fight the way he wanted

> gets called out on his bitching because his reasons are nothing but butthurt fanboy reasons

> can't back up his "reasons" when confronted about the,

> resorts to calling names

Didn't know I was dealing with a five year old.

> Anger is part of life. And it's not because of the way I wanted. It's just something many many people acknowledge. Naruto was holding back waay too much.

>That's you.

>That's you again.

>So? I can only tolerate stupid people in debates for but so long.

Didn't know I was dealing with an idiot.

If the fact that you thought the Sasuke vs Naruto rooftop scene was from a dream before wasn't an indication that you have no idea what you're talking about, this all but seals the deal.

That fight was in Tsunade's dream...

Your retorts would make sense if you actually had any idea what you were talking about. You don't.

I do. You're just on a new level of dumb or just ignoring everything.

Good job, you scaled back your original meme with a different gif.

That meme says it all though.

I've had some stupid debates in the past, but this one easily takes the cake. I honestly feel like I got dumber just by reading what you were writing. Please do me and everyone else a favor and don't reply in this thread again.

Do me and the damn world a favor and don't comment back. I need some water.

@thevivas: But I will apologize for the name calling. Name calling just sparks hate and whatever and creates some sort of epidemic.

So I apologize for that. Should have kept it more civil but I am quick tempered which is why my original post on this thread, I had to edit it.

@mudamudamuda said:

Does someone really think that base Naruto should have lasted against Sasuke for more than a couple of seconds ?

Heheh. Too bad for you he lasted longer than a couple of seconds..

True. But it would make sense for Naruto to do it. He's not trying to kill Sasuke, he's even holding back, right? So if Sasukeis using Sharingan and Rinnegan, Naruto could just go sage mode(in the beginning with the taijutsu) to even up with him and balance the fight because he doesn't wanna hurt or kill Sasuke. But I'm sure shortly after, Sasuke wouldn't want to taijutsu the Sage Mode Naruto because his sharingan can't read sage mode. So if anything it'll be Sasuke trying to over-power Naruto while Naruto is just trying to even it out.

The fight would have been better if they did go stage to stage and Naruto was matching up to Sasuke's power levels as Sasuke was progressing trying to overpower Naruto.

@batmanplusjay said:

@mudamudamuda said:

Does someone really think that base Naruto should have lasted against Sasuke for more than a couple of seconds ?

Heheh. Too bad for you he lasted longer than a couple of seconds..

Obviously because the writers were being biased in Naruto's favor. :)

@mudamudamuda said:

@batmanplusjay said:

@mudamudamuda said:

Does someone really think that base Naruto should have lasted against Sasuke for more than a couple of seconds ?

Heheh. Too bad for you he lasted longer than a couple of seconds..

Obviously because the writers were being biased in Naruto's favor. :)

No it isn't. Just because you can't see Naruto's really good skill in taijutsu...which on your part is bias since you ignore it.. doesn't mean "the show is bias i claim bias".

If anything Sasuke was the one putting the hits on Naruto before the Indra Arrow clash(cause after that Naruto got serious and idk why). It's not bias. It makes sense. Lmao. Sasuke's taijutsu isn't anything really special. It's still not even on Rock Lee's level. His taijutsu with the sharingan is though.

Tbh Idk why Naruto held back that much. He was literally playing the defense and not fighting Sasuke with barely half of his power because he wasn't even offense that much.

Naruto held back and still stalemated Sasuke who's trying to completely eradicate him. That's a shame on Sasuke's part.

anyone hungry there's plenty to share

or maybe not

Ok, so you say that Sasuke is not that skilled ? Then can you show me feats that put base Naruto at this level of skill ?

And while you are at it, can you show me feats that put base Naruto at juubi jin Madara level of speed ? Or maybe just the 4th raikage ? Because otherwise Sasuke speed blitz and pewns.

@mudamudamuda: what chapter is that from again?

@jaycool2: Chapter 343 IIRC.

@mudamudamuda: Doesn't the fact that Naruto has kept up with Juubi Jins and Kaguya show that he is on that level of speed not to mention reacting to these

Which are some of the highest quantifiable feats in Naruto. As for the Raikage

@americanspeeddemon said:

@mudamudamuda: Doesn't the fact that Naruto has kept up with Juubi Jins and Kaguya show that he is on that level of speed not to mention reacting to these

Which are some of the highest quantifiable feats in Naruto. As for the Raikage

We are talking about Sasuke vs base Naruto here. Not Sasuke vs sage mode, bijuu mode, bijuu-sage or Six paths mode Naruto.

@mudamudamuda: thanks appreciate it

@mudamudamuda said:

@batmanplusjay said:

@mudamudamuda said:

Obviously because the writers were being biased in Naruto's favor. :)

No it isn't. Just because you can't see Naruto's really good skill in taijutsu...which on your part is bias since you ignore it.. doesn't mean "the show is bias i claim bias".

If anything Sasuke was the one putting the hits on Naruto before the Indra Arrow clash(cause after that Naruto got serious and idk why). It's not bias. It makes sense. Lmao. Sasuke's taijutsu isn't anything really special. It's still not even on Rock Lee's level. His taijutsu with the sharingan is though.

Tbh Idk why Naruto held back that much. He was literally playing the defense and not fighting Sasuke with barely half of his power because he wasn't even offense that much.

Naruto held back and still stalemated Sasuke who's trying to completely eradicate him. That's a shame on Sasuke's part.

Ok, so you say that Sasuke is not that skilled ? Then can you show me feats that put base Naruto at this level of skill ?

And while you are at it, can you show me feats that put base Naruto at juubi jin Madara level of speed ? Or maybe just the 4th raikage ? Because otherwise Sasuke speed blitz and pewns.

Base Sasuke(no sharingan or rinnegan) isn't juubi jin madara level of speed. Let alone 4th raikage. Who teleports.

But sure I'll post some Naruto skill. But don't expect a pile of bodies because in the series, people never like 100 v 1 naruto in just taijutsu. Closest to that I can remember is The Last Naruto taijutsu blitzing about 25 to 50 ninjas.

Other than that, base Naruto isn't really extraordinarily fast from what I can recall.

Lel nerds

No problem.

Can you define what a base Sasuke is ? And why this matters at all considered the Sasuke who fought base Naruto had both the Sharingan and Rinngan active ? We are here talking about how the Sasuke who fought base Naruto should have easily pewned base Naruto within seconds, due to the difference in skill, speed and reflexes thanks to Sharingan/rinnegan. Also, the 4th Raikage does not teleport, you are thinking of 4th Hokage, and Juubi jin Madara is faster than both either way (speed wise, no space-time ninjutsu)

Yes, indeed, he is not extraordinarily fast. Which is precisely why he should have gotten pewned by Sasuke who had his Sharingan active and which allows him to keep up with and fight against people far faster than himself, let alone someone slower like base Naruto.

@mudamudamuda said:

@jaycool2 said:

@mudamudamuda: thanks appreciate it

No problem.

@batmanplusjay said:

Base Sasuke(no sharingan or rinnegan) isn't juubi jin madara level of speed. Let alone 4th raikage. Who teleports.

But sure I'll post some Naruto skill. But don't expect a pile of bodies because in the series, people never like 100 v 1 naruto in just taijutsu. Closest to that I can remember is The Last Naruto taijutsu blitzing about 25 to 50 ninjas.

Other than that, base Naruto isn't really extraordinarily fast from what I can recall.

Can you define what a base Sasuke is ? And why this matters at all considered the Sasuke who fought base Naruto had both the Sharingan and Rinngan active ? We are here talking about how the Sasuke who fought base Naruto should have easily pewned base Naruto within seconds, due to the difference in skill, speed and reflexes thanks to Sharingan/rinnegan. Also, the 4th Raikage does not teleport, you are thinking of 4th Hokage, and Juubi jin Madara is faster than both either way (speed wise, no space-time ninjutsu)

Yes, indeed, he is not extraordinarily fast. Which is precisely why he should have gotten pewned by Sasuke who had his Sharingan active and which allows him to keep up with and fight against people far faster than himself, let alone someone slower like base Naruto.

To me, someone in base is someone who isn't using any kind of power ups. Rinnegan and Sharingan included.

So Naruto vs Sasuke without any kind of fancy power that boosts stats. Just skill, tactics, and strategy. It matters because that Sasuke is fighting a BASE naruto even though Sasuke isn't in base himself.

We are here talking about how the Sasuke who fought base Naruto should have easily pewned base Naruto within seconds, due to the difference in skill, speed and reflexes thanks to Sharingan/rinnegan.

The skill is equal.. they're the same in tai. Sasuke's Sharingan just gives him an edge.

Also, the 4th Raikage does not teleport, you are thinking of 4th Hokage, and Juubi jin Madara is faster than both either way (speed wise, no space-time ninjutsu)

And Sasuke, without rinnegan, isn't as fast as Juubi Jin Madara.

Yes, indeed, he is not extraordinarily fast. Which is precisely why he should have gotten pewned by Sasuke who had his Sharingan active and which allows him to keep up with and fight against people far faster than himself, let alone someone slower like base Naruto.

I said naruto wasn't extraordinarily fast in base form. But he is fast. He has sharingan, right? But that doesn't mean Naruto can't react to the things Sasuke throws out. In most of the taijutsu Naruto was blocking and dodging Sasukes hits because he can react to Sasuke. But Sasuke can just react faster due to his sharingan. Doesn't really make him any faster.

They literally blew each other's arms off so personally I'm satisfied.

@batmanplusjay:

To me, someone in base is someone who isn't using any kind of power ups. Rinnegan and Sharingan included.

So Naruto vs Sasuke without any kind of fancy power that boosts stats. Just skill, tactics, and strategy. It matters because that Sasuke is fighting a BASE naruto even though Sasuke isn't in base himself.

Ok, so why does this matter at all if this "base Sasuke" Never fought base Naruto ?

The skill is equal.. they're the same in tai. Sasuke's Sharingan just gives him an edge.

Their skill is not equal at all, but even ignoring that since you clearly have no intention of conceding the point, Sasuke should have absolutely no problem whatsoever beating someone "as skilled as him" with the ridiculous difference in speed and reflexes between Sasuke and base Naruto.

And Sasuke, without rinnegan, isn't as fast as Juubi Jin Madara.

What do you mean "without Rinnegan" ? He very clearly had his Rinngan active during the fight.

I said naruto wasn't extraordinarily fast in base form. But he is fast. He has sharingan, right? But that doesn't mean Naruto can't react to the things Sasuke throws out. In most of the taijutsu Naruto was blocking and dodging Sasukes hits because he can react to Sasuke. But Sasuke can just react faster due to his sharingan. Doesn't really make him any faster.

I don't think you realize how the Sharingan works. It is an ability made specially so that the Uchiha can fight people who outclass them in speed. Think back to part one, remember how fast Kn0 was ? He was blizting the heck out of Sasuke even though he had the ridiculously increased reflexes of 2 tomoe Sharingan :

And what happened once Sasuke unlocked his 3 tomoe ? Naruto could not land a single hit on him despite still having his massive speed advantage. In fact, Sasuke was not only able to see in slow motion Naruto at that level of speed, he became outright able to see his future moves before he even executed them :

So how can you possibly argue that Sasuke with an obvious speed advantage, would have any kind of trouble against base Naruto while using the Sharingan against someone who cannot match his speed to begin with ? That makes no sense.

@mudamudamuda: Nice to see you back in action, bro. :)

I was starting to think that you would never return to the vine.

Thanks, bro. It's been a while!

Honestly so did I for a while lol But I guess I will be logging in from time to time, mainly on the week ends for a while. :)

A shame PDP left though :/

@mudamudamuda:

A little over 5 months, my man. And you said that you should be back by mid-May. :p

Well, at least you'll be around, even if it's only occasionally. Hopefully you've been doing alright?

I know... He was inactive for a few months, then signed in out of the blue. He stuck around for a few weeks, but I guess he got tired of debating here for some reason. Not sure why he decided to have a mod permanently ban his account, though.

@batmanplusjay:

I gurantee all the things I ask you to prove in this, you will either ignore. Or think you're proving it by saying something like "not true" or "no". You wont provide evidence from the show, or explain your bull with good reasoning and events from the show. You never have. I doubt you will now.

Because the evidence is in the show. You're basically telling me that you watched Man of Steel but are asking me to prove that Superman can fly.

That's how idiotic your reasoning is right now.

Uhm.. df are you talking about? Lmao

The fact that you actually hit the "reply" button when responding to other users and not me?

Then you'd know Naruto blocked 80% of the things Sasuke did in that taijutsu fight. Only reason Sasuke got hits off is because of the sharingan.

80%? Hardly.

And so what? Quit bitching about Sasuke having the Sharingan. That doesn't make his body any more skilled.

Oh.. oh... so the videos aren't evidence? Nor the moments I told you? Yeah stop with the bullcrap. You're the only one here who's provided no evidence. 0.

No, posting videos of Naruto fighting while not in Base doesn't prove that he, in Base, is better than Sasuke.

You saying "Naruto fought Pain here, so that automatically makes him better than Sasuke" isn't evidence. I'm starting the think you don't even know the meaning of the word.

Scratch that, I know you don't know the meaning of the word.

What does their fights AS KIDS have to do with their OLDER... MORE MATURE... MORE DEVELOPED the "NOW" fights? You DO realize their fights as kids does not mirror their fights now since they both got better and...even Sasuke said it "aren't the same two kids like before". Right?

Hmm let's see, you asked for a time when Naruto and Sasuke fought or sparred while both in Base. I provided an instance of that.

If you wanted an instance of when they fought or sparred when they were teenagers, maybe you should have worded it that way. Regardless, when they were kids, Sasuke was better at taijutsu. When they were young teens, Sasuke was better at taijutsu. When they were older teens, Sasuke was still better at taijutsu.

Try again.

Know why you retard? Because the past doesn't matter. The "now" does. You don't base something off of something that is long forgotten and irrelevant at this point. Do you get it now????

So that's why I'm a retard? Because I brought you what you asked for?

Lol nice. And name calling again. Do you need to go on a time out?

At least I made a hypothesis, you just kept spamming "sasuke is better"

Hypotheses need to be backed up by evidence. You claimed you used evidence to back it up, and now you're agreeing with me that there is no evidence to back up your particular hypothesis.

So we can add "liar" onto the list of words describing you. I'll just put that right next to "immature" and "ignorant".

No hypothesis, no evidence. You don't even have a reason for why. But I'll say it once more:

No evidence? Sasuke has beaten Naruto in taijutsu before.

No reason? Sasuke has better taijutsu feats than Naruto.

Want to know where I got that evidence? The manga.

Do you see how evidence works now, or should I go slower?

Naruto has shown growth in taijutsu now(as I proved in the videos above) than back when they were kids because post-timeskip Naruto didn't know taijutsu until after the timeskip where Jariya taught him.

And that's not what's being argued right now. I know Naruto has gotten better at taijutsu, but he's not on the level of Sasuke.

And we have seen..1 small skippet of Sasuke doing something without his sharingan... and he paid an ultimate price for it because his sharingan gives him unfair advantage in fighting since he can react to things and stop them before they're executed. Here's the snippet of Sasuke's sharingan running out and finally Naruto is able to hit him. What did you think "fair and square" meant when Naruto told Sasuke "I wanna beat you fair and square"? This. Here it is though:

LOL I'll give you a word of advice, kid. Look up the word "context" and find out what it means and how to use/spot it. It'll help you from embarrassing yourself further.

Sasuke didn't "choose" to attack Naruto without the Sharingan, his chakra just got so low at that point he literally couldn't keep it activated anymore. That's why he had already closed his left eye, because he didn't even have the chakra to keep his Sharrinnegan active.

And that's not what Naruto meant when he said fair and square. LOL oh god, not even close.

Without his sharingan, how do you think that would have ended? Naruto dead or Naruto dodging it. Because of his sharingan he stops things and that crap is like a huge buff in taijutsu. So this small 15 second long clip shows if he didn't his his sharingan during that taijtusu fight earlier.. Naruto would have hit Sasuke a lot more.

That's not at all what it shows. You seriously need to get your eyes checked.

All that shows is that if Sasuke was so low on chakra that he couldn't even keep his Sharingan active, then Naruto would have a better chance at beating him. That's it. Not that Sasuke is suddenly less skilled because he's low on chakra.

You said those exact words. What did you mean by "better"? Hmm? I wanna hear this. Lemme see you twist it up like "Oh oh nah i didnt mean that i actually meant". Stop with the excuses. You just contradicted yourself.

Me saying better was quoting you. That's why I threw in the "" marks. Are you that stupid or just blind?

That was your whole hypothesis summarized: "Here's a video of Naruto fighting. This proves he's better than Sasuke."

Jesus Christ.

Evidently not. And it's a damn shame you're this ignorant after watching and reading "multiple times".

The fact that you literally can't even tell what's Canon and what's not proves you have no right to try to insult my knowledge of the series, especially since you're getting proven wrong left and right.

Nope. He doesn't need to stay still. Know what? Prove it. Give me a time where Naruto needed to stay still so his clone could gather energy. Even in Naruto v Pain fight, he was fighting while his clone was gethering energy and didn't need to be still to obtain it. All he had to do was let his clone get the energy while the real naruto was fighting, and when the Clone is full of energy, it'll disappear, passing that energy to the real Naruto that is indeed moving and or fighting.

But give me some proof of Naruto needing to stand still "clone or not". I wanna see this.

My god, learn how to f*cking read. Naruto himself needs to stay still to gather Nature energy. If he makes a clone, the clone as well needs to stay still to gather Nature energy. That's what is meant by the "clone or not" part of the comment.

How dumb can you get dude?

Ironic when you're the one who said something, I debunk it and you reply with "what does that have to do with this?"...when anyone with a brain could see how it's relevant.

You didn't debunk anything, lmao. The only thing you're "proving" is how biased you are towards Naruto the character.

He wasn't in sage mode at the time and his clone was in a different world which is why he needed to summon him. But yeah, he summoned his clone and his clone was gathering energy this whole fight, and he got the energy his clone had. You didn't watch this series. Stop pretending you have. You can't even remember anything about it. I bet you're some DBZ fanboy who just watched naruto v Sasuke fights and is just here trolling. I sure hope that's the case. Because it's obvious you've never watched this show.

Let's try this again. Show me Naruto making clones DURING A FIGHT to go off and gather Nature energy for him.

All you did was show me Naruto using prep time to make clones to gather Nature energy for him because he can only hold it for a set amount of time. In fact, these were your own words:

"want me to show you some videos or Naruto using clones to get him into sage mode and fight?"

Naruto made these clones beforehand because he knew he needed them. Why don't you tell me how this proves that it's in character for him to start off by making clones, having them go off a distance away, and gather energy for him?

Doesn't matter if it's canon or not. It's proof he can do it. He was locked in a cell and when released, he let his clone do the Nature gathering while he went to find the secrets of the box. And eventually his clone disappeared, and all the energy went to the real Naruto.

Non-Canon fight is non-Canon.

Why don't you come back here when you have an actual example instead of some non-Canon crap?

And the third is in the fight you supposedly watched "multiple times"(which is just an outright lie.. but anyway):

Had a clone, this time of Kurama, gathering energy. But in this he just happened to be standing still. But Kurama was gathering energy since they went into Kyuubi/Susano'o form.

So you're complaining because you wanted Naruto to make a clone to gather Nature energy for him in their final fight, and then try to use the instance of him actually doing what you're complaining about him not doing to try and prove that he should have done it earlier?

This style of debating is honestly garbage. I don't know where you learned it, but it's just an embarrassment.

If it was really how Naruto "fought", he would have done so in almost every fight he had. Let's think about them for a second:

• When he fought the Third Raikage, he didn't make a clone to gather Nature energy for him.
• When he fought Itachi and Nagato, he didn't make a clone to gather Nature energy for him.
• When he fought Tobi and his new Paths, he didn't make a clone to gather Nature energy for him.
• When he fought Juubito, he didn't make a clone to gather Nature energy for him.

So tell me again that that's how he fights. Go on, I dare you.

Lol. This guy... this is literally the only thing you proved me wrong in and you're so full of yourself. You feel accomplished, don't you? I proved you wrong in pretty much everything and you're too stupid to even realize you're stupid.

1) It's laughable that you think you've proven anything.

2) You were proven wrong. Again. The only difference is, this time you acknowledged it. But then tried to resort to name calling again because you were wrong and had to actually admit it.

Grow up.

"You haven't done anything to prove Naruto is better". I stopped reading there because you don't know how to read. In my last two comments I VERY OBVIOUSLY pointed out and singled out "Naruto is at least equal to Sasuke in taijutsu. Only reason Sasuke looks so good is because of his sharingan." But then you went full retard mode..again... and said "you didnt prove naruto is better"... NOT MY POINT...

Quit lying. You even edited it into your OP that you think Naruto is better than Sasuke:

"Naruto surpassed sasuke after the Pain arc btw"

"Already established naruto is equal to, or better than Sasuke is taijutsu up in my comments below"

You're lying to yourself and everyone else in this thread if you're trying to tell me now that you only think Naruto is AS GOOD as Sasuke in taijutsu. And you didn't point out anything. You just keep bitching about Sasuke having the Sharingan.

I'm not gonna lie I misinterpreted "post" with "pre". Everyone makes their mistakes. ;P Deal with it.

Yes, and this whole thread is filled with yours.

Well, this is entertaining. To be honest, since you're so much more knowledgeable in this show than I am I said that to see what you'd say in return. We did get a filler episode with Sasuke training taijutsu. Wanted to see if you'd remember it. You didn't. Then turn around in your current post and say "I watched it multiple times" just shows you're lying. Because they did show Sasuke doing it. he was with orochimaru on a rooftop and orochimaru I think summoned or brought a lot of people go against Sasuke. Sasuke took'em all out without killing them.

1) I never said there wasn't an episode. Why don't you actually read what I write instead of trying to be a smart ass and having it come back to bite you?

I said, "So now you're claiming Sasuke didn't train in taijutsu because.....what? Because we didn't get a filler episode that showed him doing do?"

I was making fun of you shotty ass logic, not stating that there isn't an episode of Sasuke training.

2) Anime filler is non-Canon. I don't watch filler.

3) I said I've watched the anime and read it multiple times. I haven't watched it multiple times.

4) The instance you're referring to, Sasuke used a sword. Taijutsu is hand-to-hand, fighting with a sword us called kenjutsu.

Prove he had prior knowledge. Don't say it. Prove it. You won't prove anything because you can't.

You want me to prove that Naruto knew all of the Pain's abilities? Dear God...

1) Tsunade gives Naruto a piece of Katsuyu and literally tells him "she has valuable intel on Pain":

2) Katsuyu literally warns Naruto what Preta Path can do when he goes to fight him:

3) He also had the added knowledge of the Frog Sages:

4) She then tells him about what Naraka and Deva Path can do:

Do you need any more examples of Naruto already having prior knowledge of Pain, or is that enough?

He figured it out on his own. He used his observation skills and remembered that scar on his chest and created a strategy to beat him.

No, he saw the scar, found out Eight Tails had fought him, and then asked Eight Tails about it. After Eight Tails basically told him that the Third Raikage fell on his own attack, all Naruto did was connect the dots. If you want the scans from the manga as well, feel free to ask:

Prove it isn't a strategy.

First off, it was a great strategy. Secondly. It is a strategy. Just not one that your dumb### approves of. Even Kakashi himself says it.. "Well.. naruto has always been unexpectedly cunning". But from someone who watched and read the show multiple times, you probably don't remember that either.

No, it's not a great strategy. Just because you say so, doesn't mean it is, especially considering how biased you are.

And all Kakashi is saying is that Naruto is unexpectedly cunning, not that using Reverse Harem is a great strategy. Learn to read.

He never had prior knowledge. He got just more skilled and put Kakashi in situations he couldn't get out of and it wasn't because of prior knowledge.

But go ahead. Prove it's prior knowledge.

Are you kidding? Naruto has known that Kakashi likes the Make-out Paradise books since Part I. Jiraiya just wrote a new book, that Naruto already knew Kakashi wanted to read, so all he had to do was try to spoil the book and he knew Kakashi would become distracted.

I can't believe you really need me to hold your hand and walk you through this.

Never said he was a master. My point is he's a good strategist. Face it

And I never said he wasn't. Quit trying to use a tough guy act and actually read what I said. Naruto wouldn't have come up with any of the strategies you mentioned (outside of the Kaguya one) if he didn't have help or prior knowledge.

If you wanted to just prove that Naruto is a good strategist, why didn't you mention his idea to free Kakashi from Zabuza's Water Prison? His strategy to beat Neji by tunneling through the hole Shikamaru made in the previous fight? You had a bunch of other better examples, it's not my fault you chose the ones that can be attributed to "prior knowledge".

And they're not getting worse. They're getting better, but they're frustrating you. Each and every event I mentioned had him using strategies. But for the sake of your argument and your pride in your way, you'll never admit to it. But it's fine. People will always be in denial like you.

Right, which is why I easily disproved all of your "best" examples by showing that Naruto needed prior knowledge to enact those strategies.

Just face it. Your examples suck ass.

Had prior knowledge? Prove it. You can't.

It seems I messed up. This was the Pain example. Either way, refer above. Naruto clearly was given knowledge before and during the fight.

But the fight on the rooftops is? All of a sudden canon is relevant now but a few posts ago you was all for filler. LMAO!! Damn right your #### is embarrassing!! XD

Yes, this fight is Canon:

I honestly don't think I've seen someone make a bigger fool out of themselves than what just happened right now.

Yeah, he would have figured it out. He even almost beat Sai with their quarrels with strategies. Just face it.. god damn you're such a hater.. XD You're the kind of person who would have all the facts laid out in front of him and still say "lmao try harded u suck none of these mean anything"... when it means everything. You haven't shown or given reasons why it wouldn't be a strategy.

Again with the tough guy act. All it's doing is amking you look like both a fool and an ass.

Naruto actually needed help coming up with some strategies to beat Pain, he needed info to defeat the Third Raikage, he used his already established info on Kakashi to trick him, etc. etc.

The difference here is you're getting debunked left and right and just laughing it off while trying to insult me.

This statement is ironic. It's you who's whining, ignoring facts and common sense, and for some reason doesn't know sharingan is the reason Sasuke even did so good in taijutsu.

1) You've been ignoring what has been shown in the manga (Sasuke being better at taijutsu than Naruto) since the first page.

2) You've avoided common sense in everyone of your retorts to me, citing non-Canon fights as proof.

3) You just said the Sharingan doesn't make you more skilled at taijutsu, now you're saying again that it makes Sasuke better at it.

Quit jumping from argument to argument. Grow a pair and actually defend your position.

I had evidence. You just chose to ignore it and say "it isn't evidence" like your word automatically makes something true.

No you don't have evidence. Your hypothesis was that without the Sharingan and both in Base, Naruto is better or just as good as Sasuke. When asked for evidence, such as a fight or spar between the two of them in Base and without Sharingan or whatever, you couldn't provide any. In fact, you even told me that there isn't a time when they fight "in Base with no Sharingan or whatever", which is why I couldn't prove that in Base, Sasuke is better.

Guess what? It works both ways. You have no evidence that Naruto is just as good as Sasuke without Sharingan and fighting in Base, yet kept lying and saying that you did. That's shitty debating right there.

I got nothing wrong besides the Rinnegan part and the post-timeskip part. Which boosted your fragile ego by a long shot.

You got the Rinnegan wrong, the post-timeskip wrong, Naruto's strategies wrong, Naruto making clones to gather Nature energy wrong, the fight on the rooftop wrong, etc.

Want me to go on?

Pain wasn't superior. Prove it.

He could have flattened Naruto at the beginning of the fight with Shinra Tensei if Deva wasn't out of the picture.

Naruto needed the help of five other Great Toads to take of the summons.

Naruto needed the help of Katsuyu to tell him what each Pain did, which allowed him to come up with counter measures.

Pain could have ended it with a Chibaku Tensei at the start if he wanted.

I can go on and on. Your precious Naruto only won with extreme circumstances. Get over it.

Ok. Since Itachi threw a fight. Pain did to? You think he isn't going serious to capture and obtain the last key to his whole plan he spent years and years preparing? You think he wouldn't go serious despite destroying the whole leaf village? You think Naruto didn't outsmart him using common sense? Ok. Prove it.

Enough with the strawmans and learn to f*cking read.

You said "Well Naruto beat Pain, so he's better" without looking at why he beat Pain. I compared that to saying "Well Sasuke beat Itachi, so he's better".

If you can't see the problem with that line of logic, you're dumber than I thought.

Explain how stabbing someone through their torso hands, and legs to make'em stay still isn't going serious then. Go ahead.

Pain wasn't trying to kill him. He could have killed him right there and won the fight. That's what I'm talking about. He wasn't trying to kill him, which helped Naruto win in the end.

Again, you're killing my brain cells.

Then explain why Naruto hasn't killed anybody on purpose yet.

Look's like he killed these Pains on purpose:

Gallery

But let's look at who he's fought, shall we?

• Didn't kill Gaara, in his first real one-on-one battle because he was too weakened at the end and didn't have the means to. He then sympathized with Gaara and helped him to overcome his hatred of the world.
• Didn't kill Deidara because he got away.
• Didn't kill Orochimaru because he (Oro) was too hard to kill and Yamato broke Naruto out of his Nine Tails transformation.
• Didn't kill Kakuzu because he had one to many hearts.
• Didn't kill Pain because he wanted to learn how a student of Jiraiya turned out the way he did.
• Didn't kill Kisame because he got away and was still getting used to his new KCM power.
• Didn't kill the Third Raikage because he was an Edo.
• Didn't kill Tobi because he couldn't.
• Didn't kill the Tailed Beasts because all he wanted to do was set them free.
• Didn't kill Obito because he wanted to set the Tailed Beasts free.
• Didn't kill Madara because Kaguya took him over.
• Didn't kill Kaguya because she is immortal.
• Didn't kill Sasuke because he's his best friend.

Your brain cells are dying because you've never experienced common sense, facts, and logic before in your life since you've debunked your own #### like 3 times now.

No, they're dying because of the garbage I've been reading.

Pain was going all out. Going all out doesn't always mean "Someone must be trying to kill someone then". Going all out is doing whatever necessary to achieve your goals. Like killing those frogs..destroying the leaf.. stabbing someone to the floor... death isn't necessary to be going all out.

I flat out explained what I meant and you still misunderstand?

Just stop replying.

It's not opinion. What I did was assume you know Sasuke's taijutsu level.. which you need to know to even participate in this argument and make sense. And I posted Naruto's taijutsu moments(some) to let you see them and determine "Well, from Sasuke's taijutsu moments to Narutos, they go look kind of equal". But apparently you can't think for yourself. You need to stop calling other people things that you are. You've yet to prove anything.

Again, ironic as high hell, considering you don't even know either of their taijutsu levels and are still trying to debate for and against them. Even from the videos you posted, it's clear Sasuke is still Naruto's superior.

Try taking your own advice for once.

When has the manga shown us that? How can you even determine that even though Naruto has gotten extraordinarily better at taijutsu? Naruto and Sasuke are equals in taijutsu bruh..

1) The manga has shown us better displays of taijutsu from Sasuke than Naruto.

2) It doesn't matter if Naruto has gotten extraordinarily better, because he still hasn't closed the gap between him and Sasuke.

3) They're not equals. Close, but not completely equal.

I watched the show. Don't believe me? Watch it.

I don't believe you, cause you still think the rooftop fight was in a dream.

LOL

Never said Naruto was better. Said they're equal. How many times must I say it again before your nonexistent brain comprehends it? And I provided everything. Moments, videos, facts. Provided it all. You provided nothing but complaints, statements where for some reason I should "take your word for".

1) You edited it into your OP, genius. Don't believeme, just read what you yourself wrote. God damn.

2) You didn't prove anything. You posted videos that don't back up what you've been claiming and then tried to use them to back up your highly biased opinions, which they don't.

3) I've provided examples from the manga, an actual Canon source, and have now provided actual evidence because you lack the knowledge to remember these things despite watching all of the anime (which is a clear lie).

Never made 3 replies saying that. I said he's better because of it. sigh... You just can't stop stupid. Trying to educate you is like showing logic to a wall.

Three was a exaggeration, or an example. Do you need me to look that up for you so you can figure out what it means?

Be tagged him because Sasuke was looking at waay too many objects at once all coming at once. A bunch of swords? Prior the swords, Bee never hit Sasuke.

Doesn't matter. If he knows what Bee is going to do before he does it, which did he get hit? You just said he can dodge 99.9999% of attacks if he can see them before them come, so why didn't he?

And while you're at it, why didn't he dodge the other attacks I named in my examples? You know, the ones you ignored?

Anger is part of life. And it's not because of the way I wanted. It's just something many many people acknowledge. Naruto was holding back waay too much.

The manga already made it clear that Naruto was holding back. And if you knew anything about Sasuke, you'd know he was held back too by CIS and WIS.

That's you.

This is your thread, and it started with people calling you out for your fanboy reasons as to why the fight was bad.

Not the other way around.

That's you again.

I've easily torn apart every argument you have thrown together. Get off your high horse and learn to debate without resorting to name calling after a few back-and-forths, child.

So? I can only tolerate stupid people in debates for but so long.

Didn't know I was dealing with an idiot.

Indeed.

That fight was in Tsunade's dream...

No it wasn't. And a clear indication you shouldn't be debating here at all.

That meme says it all though.

Yes, it explained my situation. Don't know about yours, though.

Do me and the damn world a favor and don't comment back. I need some water.

I'm doing the world a favor and cleaning up the shit you're posting.

@thevivas: If i may (nice job with the evidence) i believe he is referring to episode 450 of naruto shippuden I could be wrong though

@jaycool2: Yeah.. I was refering to that episode.

On my phone and I am not replying to all that on this little thing.

@jaycool2: So Infinite Tsukuyomi filler.

@thevivas: I'm gonna reply but before I do I'm here to tell you one, I'm on my phone and I *think* my computer broke. And two, can re debate without name calling? I know I started it. I'm quick tempered so I apologize here. Kind of out of my comfort zone. So we agree no more name calling since it'll only stur up hate?

@mudamudamuda: gotta get to u on that later. Computer acting up.

Wow, 5 months already... It didn't feel all that long for some reason...

Yep! I've been doing pretty well (so far at least). How have you been doing ?

Ah, I see. Why would he get his account banned though ? Seems like he really doesn't want to come back. :/

Not a problem. Though if you take too long then you may end up having to wait till the next week end for a reply lol

@thevivas: yep

@mudamudamuda:

You must have been keeping very busy then. It honestly feels like more time has passed to me. XD

Good to hear, bro. And I've been alright for the most part. Too bad Summer is over, though.

That's what I'm wondering. He told me Comicvine was taking up too much of his time that he could have been spending on gaming and with his girl, if i recall. It still seems a bit extreme to ask for your own account to be banned, but i suppose it isn't exactly uncommon.

I guess so, I did spend most of the summer vacation revising, so I didn't really feel that time passing either. :/

Ah, I see. I guess he really wanted to make sure that even if he got the urge to come back he wouldn't be able to. Seems a bit weird to me as well but I can understand. Well, I hope everything will go smoothly for him in the future.

@mudamudamuda: I was only able to take a week off of work for vacation, but it was a fun week nonetheless.

That's most likely the reason. Though I suppose he could always just make an alt if he really wanted to come back in the future. Lol

As for this thread:

@thedarkpaladin: Sasukes taijutsu being better than naruto's is debatable since sasukes taijutsu is so good due to sharingan and his ability to predict moves.

So while fighting base Naruto, who can only react to what he sees and feels, of course Sasuke will be better. But if Naruto goes into sage mode. Then Naruto would be superior in taijutsu.

That's why I say they're equals in that cuz if Naruto wants to he can equal up to Sasuke in it.

@thevivas: I can't reply to ur FULL post vivas so that might be late. but you can read this(what I wrote to miss) to clear some of the things you said up

@mudamudamuda: Naruto can match his speed since it's proven in the fight because he indeed is keeping up. But hear me out, for instance, Sasuke has a bunch of speed highlights. Naruto has a bunch of endurance highlights. So since Naruto has more endurance highlights, that doesn't mean sasukes endurance isn't close to or as good as Naruto's since its proven in this fight Sasuke has alot of endurance. Same with speed. Naruto has his moments. Just not alot, so they're not really memorable. Naruto is as fast as Sasuke when he isnt teleporting.And this fight proves, yes, he is able to keep up.

BUT since Sasuke has sharingan, he will get more hits off. But that doesn't mean Naruto sucks at taijutsu. Because he was blocking and/or dodging most of Sasukes attacks in the taijutsu moment in the beginning of the fight. Sasuke only hit Naruto 5 or 6 times after like 50 or so punches thrown in that scene cause Naruto was blocking and evading. Naruto is good at taijutsu, right along side Sasuke.

@batmanplusjay:

Sasukes taijutsu being better than naruto's is debatable since sasukes taijutsu is so good due to sharingan and his ability to predict moves.

Sasuke's taijutsu has always been more impressive than Naruto's even without the Sharingan. Heck, i honestly can't recall anything too impressive from Naruto in the H2H department without the use of his clones or Frog Kumite.

So while fighting base Naruto, who can only react to what he sees and feels, of course Sasuke will be better. But if Naruto goes into sage mode. Then Naruto would be superior in taijutsu.

Based on what, exactly? Sasuke doesn't even need his sharingan to beat base Naruto in H2H combat.

That's why I say they're equals in that cuz if Naruto wants to he can equal up to Sasuke in it.

They're intended to be equally powerful, but in terms of Taijutsu or CQC, Sasuke has always been the superior of the two.

@batmanplusjay said:

Hello.

You got flagged a few times in this thread, but this here is a good attitude to have, thanks. I don't need to add much. Thank you for apologizing, defusing the situation and trying to get it back on topic. Wish more users tried that, not only does it make them look like decent person, creates a nicer atmosphere for everyone else.

Take care.

Naruto > Sasuke

That's true. Maybe he will be back someday. :)

So... You do realize that you are making a circular argument here, right ?

"Naruto should be able to deal with Sasuke's taijutus. Why ? Because Naruto is fast enough to react to Sasuke. Why ? Because he was able to react to Sasuke's taijutsu in this fight"

This logic simply does not work because I am arguing that the exchange used is biased in Naruto's favor and hence is invalid, so of course you cannot use this fight to prove that Naruto should be able to react in this same fight. It simply makes no sense.

For instance, if I want to prove a point regarding Sasuke's skill I can post something like this :

Gallery

If I want to prove a point regarding his speed, I can post something like this :

Gallery

If I want to prove a point regarding his strength I can post something like this :

Similarly, if you want to argue that base Naruto can handle Sasuke then what you should be doing here is posting speed, skill and taijutsu feats of base Naruto that should objectively make him able to do so.

Also, it seems that you are misunderstanding. Saying that Sasuke is more skilled at taijutsu does not mean that Naruto sucks at it... it just means that Sasuke is better at it lol

@thedarkpaladin:

"Heck, i honestly can't recall anything too impressive from Naruto in the H2H department without the use of his clones or Frog Kumite."

Earlier on in the thread I posted some good moments Naruto has had using taijutsu, one with pain, without sage mode. I'm debating on my phone rn so expect small responses.

"Sasuke doesn't even need his sharingan to beat base Naruto in H2H combat."

Based on what? Lol. This fight already proves base Naruto is keeping up with Sasuke even with sharingan so without sharingan I'd call it equal.

"They're intended to be equally powerful, but in terms of Taijutsu or CQC, Sasuke has always been the superior of the two"

And I agreed with that up until after Shippuden(after time skip). Yeah Sasuke has alot of taijutsu feats. But tbh Naruto only doesn't have alot of taijutsu feats(besides what we saw in the last and some other moments in Shippuden) cause he has clones. If he didn't have clones, we'd see alot more tai feats from him.

@sc: Thanks

@mudamudamuda:

"This logic simply does not work because I am arguing that the exchange used is biased in Naruto's favor and hence is invalid, so of course you cannot use this fight to prove that Naruto should be able to react in this same fight. It simply makes no sense."

This fight is bias towards Sasuke if anything. Nothing in this fight proves bias to Naruto since Sasuke got majority of the hits off. Yet you still claim bias.

But did u see my earlier posts on the first page showing naruto's skill against pain, even with divided attention using taijutsu and pain just couldn't hit Naruto?

@mudamudamuda: And once again, if you saw The Last then you seen Naruto take out about 25 ninjas using taijutsu. (Hard to find videos of that)

Sorry to butt in, but aren't you debating about Naruto shown in the video you posted in the op. If so then the last feats will not apply as those two Naruto's possess to different level's of skill in taijutsu