Ultimate Hulk Vs. Weapon H

Remember when Ult Hulk lost to Ult Captain America?

@shroudofsorrow: Ultimate Adamantium is crap compared to its 616 counterpart. Hulk has ripped wolverine in half before.

Also, Ultimate Hulk has fought his universe's Wolverine, and no-sold a stab from him at least once. Wouldn't that denote some level of resistance to Adamantium claw attacks?

@professorrespect: Couldn't that just be viewed as a low showing though? Pretty sure Ultimate Hulk has better feats than that (fighting Ultimate Thor, taking abuse from multiple members of the Ultimates and two members of the Squadron Supreme simultaneously, etc.)

@professorrespect: proof 616 Adamantium is stronger

Proof ult Adamantium even has any scaling worth anything in the first place? You have a statement saying it can't be broken and a bunch of nothing at present, while Primary Adamantium and above have survived the stresses of big high tiers and above. We're talking about stuff that even Thanos and Hulk can't break. The only people to have provably broken True Adamantium were people like IG Thanos, Molecule Man, The Serpent, etc. Ult Marvel has zero comparison with their metals.

vs Magneto who also breaks and liquifies 616 Adamantium.

He's never done this to my knowledge. I recall you mentioning this before but you didn't actually show this apparent instance. Either way, are you talking about Secondary or Primary or True Adamantium?

@futureisbest: Which type of adamantium the sentinal head was made of?

Not really, Ult Adamantum has very little in relation to Secondary Adamantum, let alone True Adamantum which is much stronger.

Sure, but Ult Hulk isn't exactly the bastion of consistency either. A whole squad of Hulk-mutated characters got jobbed out to Greg Stark's nanotech.

To be fair, 616 has plenty of inconsistency too. Just look at Moon Knight, Black Cat, or Thor.

@professorrespect: I mean, MK has held his own against Thor on one occasion

Because MK was amped not just by his god, but by being on a Moon as well.

and on another fought a Thor-level foe in Count Nefaria

If you read that fight you know that Nefaria was vastly nerfed at that point and time from his peak 90's teambusting self. MK didn't even really do a whole lot to him, he had to rely on lots of silly prep to even survive.

On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen people dismiss his beating Deadpool. Sounds inconsistent to me

"I've seen people dismiss a showing therefore inconsistent" is not a great line of reasoning. Everyone dismisses feats, it doesn't make MK more or less inconsistent.

As for Black Cat, I meant that she's got showings where she's held her own against the likes of Lizard or Scorpion (neither of which was done at a time when she had her Bad Luck Powers), but other times has had trouble with much less, like that time a minor supervillain was able to one-shot her

Being able to hold her own against Spidey-tier villains when she's someone who generally hangs around his tier isn't exactly inconsistent. Maybe a high-end, but inconsistent? Not really.

The Mags feat is infamous, but it's also a pretty badly-written instance given this was the same issue where Magneto's helmet was now not immune to TP because Xavier and a crappy 90's Jean could get past it, which was never the case before.

Yeah but it happen. In Ultimate Marvel not once, not one time was Adamantium in Ultimate "broken" either

Awesome, it doesn't really matter when Ult Adamantium has none of the actual impressive high-breaking points that True/Primary Adamantium has. As I said, the instance (and the issue in general, quite frankly) wasn't written well.

Just like 616 Adamantium ONLY time Ultimate Admanatium was broken own

....except it isn't, but sure. True Adamantium needs someone like IG Thanos or Molecule Man to break it, not....ult Magneto.

@professorrespect: oh so the same franchise using the same stated unbreakable metal

It's not the "same" unless the Ultimate universe has the same breaking limits, I.E. Molecule Man/IG Thanos tier threats, which they don't, I literally make that clear on the first few posts. You can't make a comparison between the two, especially given you haven't even defined what you are trying to compare as there are numerous forms of Adamantium in 616, which is also why your argument is poor and not well defined. When I gave you proof for True/Primary Adamantium being stronger, you just ignored it; seems kinda weird.

featured in the same official marvel bios

Aren't you all about "actual feats" and not guidebook/lore hyperbolic secondary sources? Interesting choice there.

stated same as unbreackable

See above

is magically inferior due to less feats

What a bad strawman. Literally the post above you has my talking points on it and you just default to "less feats = worse" because the actual argument I am using doesn't have a good answer from you. Rough times.

I guess steel from Ultimate Marvel is weaker than 616 steel

I mean if you can make up arguments to knock over I guess you look good here? I wouldn't say that's my argument though, so maybe focus on what I'm saying.

Aren't you all about "actual feats" and not guidebook/lore hyperbolic secondary sources? Interesting choice there.

@sirfizzwhizz: smh it was just a gif at the shot Stalin took, I didn't take any sides.

Yeah your right. He is riling me up more than usual with his shit. Im sorry.

@professorrespect:

It's not the "same" unless the Ultimate universe has the same breaking limits, I.E. Molecule Man/IG Thanos tier threats, which they don't, I literally make that clear on the first few posts.

Why would I need to show Molecule Man or IG Thanos when 616 Magneto has broken 616 Adamantium

Because that's the actual breaking point of True/Primary Adamantium?

1610 Magneto is the only guy to break 1610 Adamantium

712-verse Hyperion also no-sold 1610 Adamantium repeatedly lol. Compare that to 616 slicing far better (even that same Hyperion) like butter, no comparisons.

You can't make a comparison between the two, especially given you haven't even defined what you are trying to compare as there are numerous forms of Adamantium in 616, which is also why your argument is poor and not well defined.

I made comparisons that both are stated unbreakable (not true obviously) and simply stated nothing about Ultimate Adamantium has been shown inferior

It clearly has been shown as such given True/Primary Adamantium has far greater limits to that unbreakablity and isn't mogged by, say, Hyperion.

When I gave you proof for True/Primary Adamantium being stronger, you just ignored it; seems kinda weird.

How is stronger? More feats

I literally explained as such numerous times Fizz lol.

Lack of feats but showing comparable feats

"comparable"? Don't be silly. True/Primary Adamantium can be only properly shattered by the likes of Molecule Man and IG Thanos, and can slice beings like Thanos and Hulk significantly so. Ult Adamantium has zero scaling to that potent of a level, and Hyperion no-sold it numerous times.

both 1610 Adamantium is same shit as 616

Zero proof bar some terrible hyperbolics but sure, we'll go with that instead of the actual feats.

Aren't you all about "actual feats" and not guidebook/lore hyperbolic secondary sources? Interesting choice there.

Yes but that does not mean I ignored supplement material

I have no idea what this means lol, bit garbled here.

Both bios are written by the same publisher

Still crappy hyperbolics though. I thought you didn't like those?

What a bad strawman. Literally the post above you has my talking points on it and you just default to "less feats = worse" because the actual argument I am using doesn't have a good answer from you. Rough times.

You havent shown how 1610 is inferior

I clearly have, you just aren't listening to make up fake arguments.

just stating 616 exist with molecule man and IG Thanos

......again, that's still not the argument? 616 has a far greater breaking limit etc

I mean if you can make up arguments to knock over I guess you look good here? I wouldn't say that's my argument though, so maybe focus on what I'm saying.

Thats basically your argument

Wow another terrible strawman lol. Your argument is easy to get, it's just stupidly wrong because you are trying to conflate two metals that have zero relation bar a shared name as exposed by actual feats and not desperate hyperbolics and dodgy comparisons.

@itsyourboi34: Well, majority consensus right now seems to say that Weapon H wins handily, but I'm willing to see if any more discussion is generated. Mostly I'm just happy that a Comics-themed battle here that I did is actually generating a discussion :)

@professorrespect: So you concede then? Good to know

Concede what? Talking to yourself again?

Ask for proof of Ultimate Adamantium breaking

I never asked for that lol, don't be silly. I asked if Ult Adamantium has anything comparable to 616 Adamantium in regards to potency, durability, etc. Doesn't seem to be anything apart from a metal manipulator bending a metal. Everything else? Seems to be wildly different. You haven't even defined which 616 version of Adamantium you are discussing or talking about despite being asked, which is pretty telling of your knowledge on the subject.

You dodge and provide none

Provide what? You asked for nothing definitive. I already showed that your argument has to ignore obvious on-panel evidence and scaling via Hyperion. Clearly you have no counter, because all this is just you getting upset about it.

Then add in cutting Hyperion as some metric

Adding in 712 Hyperion not being cut by Ult Adamantium while True/Primary Adamantium stabs high tiers like Hulk, Thor, etc, not to mention Gladiator, his exact on-panel stated equal, also got stabbed by Primary Adamantium. Clearly, there is a issue there alongside everything else: that issue being that it isn't as good, which anyone can obviously tell.

Cutting power, only being unbreakable and weaker

Who cares? Ult Hulk squished a full needle of it as Hawkeye himself said, he "broke the needle" that was clearly ult Adamantium lol. You saying otherwise with a goofy scan that doesn't prove your point makes no sense.

Thanks for taking the L

Thanks for the entertainment of watching you somehow argue and lose to yourself. When you can prove that 712 Hyperion didn't clearly tank Ult Adamantium and that it even has half of the high-end breaking limits that Primary/True Adamantium has, feel free to show it instead of rambling.

@professorrespect: Again moving the goal post of "durability" to "stabbing ability" is you taking the L

What goalpost? My point from the very beginning is that potency and durability (especially for a metal, that, you know, is very closely related to both given most instances are it tanking or stabbing something) are far superior to Ult-scaling; they don't have characters like IG Thanos or Molecule Man at that extreme level of potency. You have had 5+ posts to suggest otherwise. You haven't even tried to do so, instead doing your old defensive routine.

I never mention which cut better

Cool, don't really care though.

I need too. 616 has sharper claws maybe

It clearly does given the durability of the metal allows it to stab into people like Thanos or Hulk without breaking. Almost like the both are related or something?

The argument is you said its weaker

It is.

I provided proof of Admantium never breaking in Ultimate verse

Who cares? You have a hyperbolic statement and a butch of instances where it is broken but then you made excuses and acted like luck-manip and needle crushing somehow make them not instances of a breakage despite the comic literally explaining you that. Not to mention that luck-manip in relation to Primary/True Adamantium has never had that same effect, mind you.

Who cares? Ult Hulk squished a full needle of it as Hawkeye himself said, he "broke the needle" that was clearly ult Adamantium lol. You saying otherwise with a goofy scan that doesn't prove your point makes no sense.

Never squish the needle. He broke the vial which is not admantium

Hawkeye literally states on panel "he broke the needle"? Are you calling Hawkeye and others liars then? You again can't seem to understand a on-panel instance. Nick Fury knew it was broken and called in Hawkeye, who also knew it was broken.

Wasp states broke the needle but so what

"yeah the character says exactly the opposite of what I think happened, but so what, not like I'm reading the panel anyway" is what you probably should have said as that's basically what you are doing. You have no authority to speak on such stuff unless you go out and find something to prove what she said was incorrect.

No one sees the shape the needle is in

They can see it is broken, which it was. Any actual proof otherwise? No? Ok.

How can a weaker version of Hulk break the needle with the skin of his hands, but then later pierce by the same adamantium syringe shot from the low power bow of Hawkeye

Wow it's almost like Hawkeye is some sort of amazing sharpshooter that knew where to shoot his specifically designed syringe-arrow into Hulk or something. Not like this same guy can kill multiple people with the force of him flinging his fingernails into specific parts of their body or something after hours of extreme torture, no.

Take the L and move on PR

More projection? You haven't even mentioned

-what type of Adamantium to be compared

-The obvious Hyperion scaling that showcases the difference between ult/Primary and True Adamantium

-How a hyperbolic can bypass the above

-etc

You've just made a whole post basically trying to pretend the comic itself didn't say "the needle was broken" and/or rationalising it in your head without any author statements or secondary sources to suggest your idea of what happened was correct. That's rough stuff, and you talk about someone else conceding? You already did basically.

Like Luther Strode being slower than bullets that everyone ream your ass on

The author stated that, and you got upset about the fact that the author stated that etc. I was curious how you can say one thing while the guy who made the comic said another, for some reason you still go on about it despite this happening 10 months ago and it wasn't even you "winning" the debate, you just said "agree to disagree" etc after I'd probed enough about your thoughts on the matter, because to me it was just a friendly discussion and not a weird power-play. Not sure why this is a point of pride for you but sure.

@professorrespect: Lets see, you cant show the damage to the actual admantium part of the needle

You don't really understand basic argumentation it seems. Your claim:

SFW- The needle was never broken

My response:

Me- Three people state it is broken and the comic acts as such going instead to plan B (which is Hawkeye) are they all liars or is there a author statement that showcases that this information is false?

SFW- Well, erm, it wasn't shown broken so not true!!!

As anyone can notice, the problem is that you never prove your first claim: the needle is never shown intact, and the comic directly tells us otherwise by having multiple characters act and state the needle has broken. You therefore can't demand me to disprove a claim with no backing. If you have no evidence for your claim, I can dismiss it with no evidence as well.

Cant counter why it work fine on Hulks thicker muscle and skin but failed on the hand

I already did, once again the comic disproves your notion. You have shown no proof that my claim is inaccurate, thereby conceded by omission.

Cant show 1610 admantium breaking under lesser conditions than 616 was

I already did via the Hyperion instance; it was useless against a character that True/Primary was able to slice a equal of properly. You have shown no proof that my claim is inaccurate, thereby conceded by omission.

WoG also stated Luther can dance around bullets in his own comic

Author states otherwise.

As me and others pointed out to your dense as hell ass

For the record SFW has spent more time insulting me than actually discussing the following:

-what type of Adamantium to be compared

-The obvious Hyperion scaling that showcases the difference between ult/Primary and True Adamantium

-How a hyperbolic can bypass the above

Because he's already conceded the debate and resorted to insults, which is typical. Pretty sad every debate with such a character has to resort to only you getting upset about your argument being disproven. When you can prove your points correct, feel free to do so.

Me- Three people state it is broken and the comic acts as such going instead to plan B (which is Hawkeye) are they all liars or is there a author statement that showcases that this information is false?

SFW- Well, erm, it wasn't shown broken so not true!!!