Legolas & Gimli vs Geralt of Rivia

Rules:

• Book versions.
• Geralt wields Sihil. Legolas wields the Bow of the Galadhrim.
• Win by death/Standard Gear/Basic knowledge.
• Begin ten feet apart at Weathertop.

Legolas & Gimli:

vs

Geralt of Rivia

To the best of my memory the LOTR characters didn't have many concrete feats in the books. However in The Witcher novels Geralt was written with clear limitations and actually struggled against skilled swordsmen so he might lose here based purely on that.

@lubub55: Yeah I agree with that. In the op is stated that he has taken potions. Witcher potions make them 5-6 six times faster and immune to pain. Maybe this changes anything, I'm not sure about who wins. Propably Lotr team

Bump. Edited.

I have read the Witcher books but not the Lotr books. High fantasy isn't my thing. How are Legolas and Gimli in the books different from movie versions?

If they were movie versions, then I'd say Geralt maybe wins after a good fight.

BTW, does Geralt get prep? With prep he stomps.

@the_fallen_lord: Lotr book characters are weaker that their movie adaptations. Geralt is weaker than his game adaptation as well.

Gimli isn't anything special honestly, he could fight with regular Geralt for like 10 or 15 seconds.

Legolas however most likely kills Geralt. Considering how strong is Legolas in the books, he would probably headshot Geralt. Legolas was capable of plucking arrows in mid-air and he has low-superhuman physical attributes. Geralt never fought with such fighter.

I don't remember that ever happening. Quote?

@anakon4: Geralt fights tougher than Legolas all the time. And Geralt can drop a team of skilled assassins faster than it takes for their bodies to hit the ground. And did so without potions. And Vilgefortz, whom Geralt needed assistance to contend with, would solo the entire Fellowship Team easily.

Geralt was able to take out a large group of trained elves very fast.

I think Geralt is what Gimli is weak against. Extremely fast with swordsman and striking ability to the point he can slice and cut handcuffs off of Yennefer and deflect 2 bolts (faster than bows) in flight. Gimli would more than likely go down rather quickly.

Did he do this with Sihil though? It's forged of superior Dwarven steel. Even his usual sword is exceptional, being forged from a meteorite. Gimli's Dwarf axe is probably superior to the latter and should be comparable to Sihil.

Gimli's not as fast as Geralt, but he's no slouch in the speed or strength department, he's able to decapitate two Orcs before anybody can react.

But a small dark figure that none had observed sprang out of the shadows and gave a hoarse shout: Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu! An axe swung and swept back. Two Orcs fell headless. The rest fled.

And he manages to outperform Legolas in the number he killed at the Hornburg (42 to Legolas' 41). Archers by rights have a huge advantage in a siege scenario, Legolas should've been killing far more than a man on the ground. And this is Legolas, who has flawless accuracy and can draw an arrow quicker than sight.

Gimli will inevitably lose to Geralt by himself, but given that Geralt has been pressed by skilled fighters before (like Levecque), I think that this is a good fight when you add Legolas in.

Skilled assassins are two words.

Vilgefortz destroyed Geralt and is obviously in absolutely different league. I dont understand why you're talking about him. And no, Vilgefortz would die to Gandalf.

@anakon4: How does Gandalf even come close to Vilgefortz?

@anakon4: Gandalf's direct combative feats are pure garbage next to Vilgefortz. You have to keep in mind, magic users in the Witcher can rather casually teleport your backside across regions and Vilgefortz is no exception. Nvm being the most powerful Sorcerer of the time who flat out stomped Yennifer.

I couldn't find it in LotR, its probably in the book of the lost tales ( I dont have that one in possesion, nor I can find it in pdf). But i found this in in Two Towers.

‘He stands not alone,’ said Legolas, bending his bow and

fitting an arrow with hands that moved quicker than sight.

‘You would die before your stroke fell.’

This means that he speedblitzed characters in the scene.

Magic users in ME could dominate the entire continent if they wanted.

Gandalf is complaining in the books that he can't melt snow, because he would have to break tha laws of physics.

@anakon4: Using magic is the same thing as breaking the laws of physics. And no, magic users in ME couldn't do anything you even remotely suggested. There was a reason why Sauron created the Rings of Power to dominate the mortal races; He had to Corrupt them first. A long and arduous process that ultimately failed given that he kept getting defeated.

Sauron only had to dominate them because of the existence of the Elves. If he had to deal with only humans it wouldn't that big problem. And there is magic like creating normal fire and magic that creates fire with abnormal abilities.

Sauron kept getting defeated only because of Tolkien's plot. The stories of ME had its flaws and illogical moments.

Gandalf doesn't say he cannot burn snow for that reason, he simply says he is unable to burn snow.

`If Elves could fly over mountains, they might fetch the Sun to save us,' answered Gandalf. `But I must have something to work on. I cannot burn snow.'

Tolkien magic often works like that, there is still something of an adherence to physical laws in certain ways, it's not 'unnatural' in that sense, it's clearly derived from Tolkien's Catholic roots, as is the fact that only Eru, essentially the Judeo-Christian God, can raise the dead. There is this idea that is banded around that the Istari are Godlike in power simply due to their divine stature as Maiar. While Gandalf would in general hold back so as not to fight power with power, lest he be corrupted as Sauron was, in Middle-Earth, Gandalf was still essentially a man who could be killed like any other:

By 'incarnate' I mean they were embodied in physical bodies capable of pain, and weariness, and of afflicting the spirit with physical fear, and of being 'killed', though supported by the angelic spirit they might endure long, and only show slowly the wearing of care and labour.

This was the same for all Ainur, including Balrogs, Dragons and even the Valar, though their physical forms were far more powerful than the Istari, who were clad in the shape of old men, they could still be harmed. Before they had existed as pure Fea/spirits and were thus invulnerable.

@reikai said:

Actually the Rings of Power were made with the Elves in mind, the rest were more of an afterthought.

In my opinion, Vilgefortz has displayed magic of considerably greater power and diversity than Gandalf in the books.

@anakon4: And the only reason Sauron ever got to hatch his plots is because the Maiar and Valar were too stupid and kept letting him get away with pulling this crap despite him showing how repeatedly untrustworthy he was after joining Morgoth initially.

Majority of magic noted in LotR is more suggestive and highly hyperbolic. Rarely at all is it used in direct combat. And what we do see by Galdalf in the Hobbit and LotR trilogy is nothing next to the kinds of things sorcs do in the Witcher-verse.

Gandalf is holding back in both trilogies. It was stated by the Tolkien, that they were forbidden to use any super powers to give advantage to anyone really. Saruman broke this when he used the magic to destroy the deeping wall. Gandalf sort of a broke it to when he disarmed members of the fellowship and destroyed flying arrow from Legolas.

Gandalf doesn't say he cannot burn snow for that reason, he simply says he is unable to burn snow.

I expected you to say that, but it wont change the fact it can be seen from that other point of view. He simply isn't allowed to do it.

Tolkien magic often works like that, there is still something of an adherence to physical laws in certain ways, it's not 'unnatural' in that sense, it's clearly derived from Tolkien's Catholic roots, as is the fact that only Eru, essentially the Judeo-Christian God, can raise the dead. There is this idea that is banded around that the Istari are Godlike in power simply due to their divine stature as Maiar. While Gandalf would in general hold back so as not to fight power with power, lest he be corrupted as Sauron was, in Middle-Earth, Gandalf was still essentially a man who could be killed like any other:

Yeah, and Morgoth who isn't the Judeo-Christian God is capable of creating new races and armies of millions, can shapeshift, is absolutely immortal and can move earth.

He created armies, races and creatures over centuries through genetic modification/eugenics of existing creatures, Morgoth cannot create life, Tolkien is consistently explicit in this regard. True creation of life is Eru's and Eru's alone. And Morgoth's shape-shifting was taxed out in the end, just like Sauron's. Once they have used up their forms and power they become stuck in their 'Dark Lord' form. Hence why Morgoth limped after his duel with Fingolfin and Sauron could not appear in the beautiful form he used on the people of Numenor, nor as a Vampire or Werewolf - only as the dark lord Sauron. Morgoth is then only immortal in so far as his fea still exists in the void. All beings in Middle-Earth are immortal by this definition, the spirits of the Elves dwell in Arda after their death until the end of days, and the spirits of the Men go to reside with Eru-Iluvatar.

Yet Gandalf destroys the bridge in Moria, stuns the Orcs to kill the Goblin king, summons lightning against the Nazgul, forces Saruman from Theoden etc. I believe he simply wasn't able to do it.

Celestial characters from LOTR don't fit well with battles to be honest. Their power rests more on philosophical and metaphysical aspects fundamental to Tolkien's cosmology than is good for CV debates.

Thats why comparing them to mages of Witcher's universe is stupid. Maya simply posses the potential to kill them all, without needing and specific feats.

@rogueshadow: @anakon4: Vilgefortz vs Gandalf - Battles - Comic Vine

@anakon4: I disagree. It's not just about feats. I do not believe that the Istari are written/intended to be as powerful as Vilgefortz. Gandalf and the other Maiar (including Balrogs) are not on the level of power people seem to think, they can be defeated and killed by conventional means.

I would like to see Vilgefortz getting his brain roasted by the One Ring.

Witcher's mages can be killed by regular humans too so...

Mental fortitude is hardly relevant. Aragorn has mentally resisted Saruon through the Palantir, this does not mean he could defeat Vilgefortz.

@rogueshadow: yes he did it with Sihil but I'm not saying he can cut Gimli's axe, just that he can strike and cut armor plating more than likely.

Definitely going for Geralt, Magic/Signs seal the deal.

Sauron's weakened spirit mental powers <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Ring Powers. Not to mention that Numenoreans have stronger will than regular humans.

Sauron wasn't a weakened spirit in the books, he had physical form, he was in Mordor, he was essentially whole but for the Ring, which kept his soul bound to the Earth/Arda. The idea that he was still a disembodied spirit during the events of the LOTR is an invention of the films. There are other factors at play there anyway, but the overall point I'm making is that such powers aren't really relevant to a fight. And I do not believe that, the Dunedain have mental powers such as foresight and the ability to look into the minds of lesser Men; but sheer will? I disagree. Hobbits, who are related to Men, had as much courage, determination and will as anybody in the History of Middle-Earth.

As a general rule, Geralt doesn't use signs against humans.

Most of Sauron's power IS in the ring (and thats stated even in the book). So yeah, he is weakened.

Sauron did not need to have the Ring on his person to harness its power, he was not weakened:

While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in ‘rapport’ with himself: he was not ‘diminished’.

While his physical might was more localised when he wore the Ring, there was no depletion in strength of will or his mental powers, his soul/fea was not diminished by being apart from it, he was 'whole' essentially. But honestly, whether or not Vilgefortz could resist Sauron's will isn't really pertinent to how he would fare in a battle with Gandalf.

And can you give me any logical reason, why he wanted Ring so much then, when it was as you say "useless"? Why didn't he took over Gondor, if he was at full strength without. Afterall, his defeat at Siege of Barad-Dur was pointless then, he didn't lost anything.

I never said the Ring was Useless. The Ring gave him control of the other Rings and by extension the Elves and it compounded his physical might on Earth. The Ring bound him to Arda, as long as it was not destroyed, he could reform.

Honestly I'm not sure why it was edited in the first place, but whatever.

Book incarnations of Legolas and Gimli don't have feats to compete with Geralt. Geralt consistently dogdes arrows and Gimili, while decent fighter, is nothing out of the ordinary. Geralt wins.

^Agree with that, he simply has more detailled feats in the book which make him superior

So why he didn't conquered Gondor and Rohan?

I don't see the relevance of that, or maybe I don't get your point(?). He was building his army to conquer them. He couldn't just go in by himself and solo them all, even with the Ring he couldn't do that.

@reikai Gandalf the grey could put up a fight stop wanking vilgefortz he is no quick ben.Gandalf has conjured lightning in his battles heavy enough to be mistaken as storm(it is kinda vague but true),burning an arrow in midflight ,superheating anduril he could do the same thing on vilgefortz staff as it is made of but regardless vilgefortz has the edge.

However

Olorin(chad form of gandalf) the maia of manwe and varda would slap vilgefortz so hard he would would put a brick in his panties.why ? Olorin is featless you say !! Let me tell you why? First of all olorin could exist at any motion or time therefore no way vilgefortz is even touching him , second thing he could change forms at his will ,third thing he could control arda at a decent extent he could create a landslide to crush vilgefortz but lets ignore these things even though they are true. vilgefortz cannot harm olorin and also olorin is basically just gandalf abilities(they are pretty good you just ignoring

them i doubt you have seen or read the hobbit or lord of the rings) + invincibility

Geralt should take this. It isn't his easiest fight, but he is consistently superhuman and very skilled. Even with his obvious limits (discussed often in the books) he is still above two skilled warriors from a lower power age in Middle Earth

@wabubub: I agree, if Geralt uses his elixirs I would say that he wins more easily, because it increases its speed a lot.

This

Geralt

@the_wspanialy: do you agree with my reply to reikai

Geralt blitzes, he's an "unrecognizable blur" right in front of human eye, blitzed multiple trained men before they could react and a casual arrow deflector. Correct me if I'm wrong but LotR duo are just peak humans in speed.