@CadenceV2: So standard Thor? Classic and Current have the same power levels, Current more if anything so both feats are allowed otherwise that's cutting like 30-40 years away from him. I will begin in the morning, its nearly midnight here lol Good luck, you can start now if you want.
@Pyrogram: Truth be told Classic is very different from Current and not Compatible at all.
Classic Thor had Time Travel Abilities, Transmutation via Mijnor, as well a 60 second rule with Mijnor.
So to use feats of Classic Thor should not be allowed at all for a fair debate. Its like picking the best abilities of Thor and negating the weaknessess he had at the same time. Not a very fair debate at all.
They are clearly very different versions of Thor with some very different power sets.
@Pyrogram: Truth be told Classic is very different from Current and not Compatible at all.
Classic Thor had Time Travel Abilities, Transmutation via Mijnor, as well a 60 second rule with Mijnor.
So to use feats of Classic Thor should not be allowed at all for a fair debate. Its like picking the best abilities of Thor and negating the weaknessess he had at the same time. Not a very fair debate at all.
They are clearly very different versions of Thor with some very different power sets.
The 60 second rule, didn't last the whole time for Classic Thor's years.
@jeanroygrant: And the Time Traveling, Mutli Dimension Hopping, Transmutation, ect have not been use or out right lost during Classic to Current versions.
Heck Thor has been thru many different versions from Classic, to King, to Odin Force, to Rune king, to more current versions. To say they're all the same and debate that way is outright recockulas. Its like saying SA Superman feats are applicable to New 52......
In Fact I will ask @Killemall since my Older stuff on Thor is little. Yo is Classic Thor the same as Current non OF Thor? Is it fair to compare them as equals?
@CadenceV2: Classic really isn't the same as current Thor, classic is actually amped up, Current Thor is how should i put it? Well a watered down drink, yet powerful enough to defeat Ultimate thor in all honesty.
In Fact I will ask @Killemall since my Older stuff on Thor is little. Yo is Classic Thor the same as Current non OF Thor? Is it fair to compare them as equals?
OK I will use current Thor, Some classic feats he still has is it ok to post? as he still has them , the scans are easier to understand?
@Pyrogram: Truth be told Classic is very different from Current and not Compatible at all.
Classic Thor had Time Travel Abilities, Transmutation via Mijnor, as well a 60 second rule with Mijnor.
So to use feats of Classic Thor should not be allowed at all for a fair debate. Its like picking the best abilities of Thor and negating the weaknessess he had at the same time. Not a very fair debate at all.
They are clearly very different versions of Thor with some very different power sets.
I don't really understand, how can we debate Thor but not allow some of his powers... I understand the time travel and others he does not have, but just beacuse he has not used them in a while does not mean he has lost them, Current Thor is stronger anyways, So I am not really getting your point. And Current Thor as your putting it , well near current Thor ( not in marvel now as we have no feats from that basically apart from past Thor ) has Odin force, at-least the future Thor does and does that count as Current? No idea.
So, an easy way, I can use any Thor feat that he still has and has not lost? That is fair as I cant say Ultimate Thor cannot use things he aint used for 6 years...
In Fact I will ask @Killemall since my Older stuff on Thor is little. Yo is Classic Thor the same as Current non OF Thor? Is it fair to compare them as equals?
They are mostly similar, there really isnt a lot of difference.The classic stuffs are just plain covered in a lot of hyperbole. There have few minor things that has changed:
1. Speed : Classic Thor was normally written to be pretty fast in a combat, current Thor gets blitz.
2. Time Manipulation: Thor lost Time Manipulation powers in Avengers Forever story arc so current Thor no longer has time manipulation.
3. Matter Manipulation: Thor hasnt used matter manipulation for the last 27 years. Reasonable to believe he lost that power as well.
@Pyrogram: @Killemall: Thanks Killemall. Alright you can use Classic Thor stuff except the Time Manipulation and Matter Manipulation. Fair enough?
But try and avoid hyperboles, stuffs like was strong enough to bench press a small planet and capable of shattering small planets. As long as you focus on feat that has actually been done, as opposed to thing that has merely been said it should be all good.
Be careful with feats like Midguard Serprent and World Tree though, both for both of you to avoid it.
And best of luck i am looking forward to reading this.
@Pyrogram: @Killemall: Thanks Killemall. Alright you can use Classic Thor stuff except the Time Manipulation and Matter Manipulation. Fair enough?
But try and avoid hyperboles, stuffs like was strong enough to bench press a small planet and capable of shattering small planets. As long as you focus on feat that has actually been done, as opposed to thing that has merely been said it should be all good.
Be careful with feats like Midguard Serprent and World Tree though, both for both of you to avoid it.
And best of luck i am looking forward to reading this.
Actually your esteemed friend Hyper_God debunked the Midgard Serpent feat the other day =D.
@CadenceV2: Oh and its 2-0 to me in our debate. Acid Skull and God Spawn have voted so far.
Actually your esteemed friend Hyper_God debunked the Midgard Serpent feat the other day =D.
@CadenceV2: Oh and its 2-0 to me in our debate. Acid Skull and God Spawn have voted so far.
Oh he did? I have tried explaining to people how thats no where near planetary feat and doesnt even take place in our dimension but people always found my explanation inadequate but i am sure he has put a lot better. Which particular thread did he explain? Would love to see who was at the receiving end :p
@CitizenBane: Thanks, i like how he (@Hyper_God: ) is so good at explaining stuffs, alongside you and Morpheus_. I knew this, tried to used the same thing (although i kind of missed the whole scan where it says the laws of time and space doesnt apply to the void , must have overlooked it) and i couldnt never convince Czarny_Samuels666 it wasnt a planetary feat. Many thanks to him, and his recommendation for following MR Master's argument.
Btw Bane you know MR Masters? Coz lol after reading like 4 of his argument on KMC i am a fan now :p
@CadenceV2: fair enough, You start please. I like to counter-argue more.
Alright.
First off I will not try to prove Ultimate Thor will win every battle thrown in. I will Prove he has abilities that have not been lost and Stats that in some areas exceed the combat speed of 616 Thor.
Ultimate Thor Mijnor works different to 616. By alot.
Cons
1) Does not have a enchantment that does not allow to be picked up.
2) Does not Absorb forms of energy.
3) Does not Travel at FTL speeds.
Pros
1) Allows Multiverse and Dimension Travel
2) Allows different forms of Electricity
3) Allows use of Odin Force into the User
4) Allows Instnat 4th Dimensional Teleportation
So with this in mind Ultimate Thor has no God Blast or silly crap like that but does have more versatility in power uses.
Also this weapon is base on power enough to destroy worlds as per Odins Instructions.
And at first this may seem Hyperbole... but its proven. Thor pretty much by himself and Mijnors powers took out Jotuiheim and the Ice Giants.
After enraged of Odins death Thor killed all of Asgard and all who were waging Ragnarok with one blow. This attack killed Thor too allowing him to be reborn as a man which left him depowered.
As seen he was slightly re empowered to the Gear that was Specifically tailored to Thor. However Thor powers were fully restored thanks to Scarlet Witch in Ultimate 2.
Ontop of this Thor while Depowered and with Powers restored showed a TP sense that 616 simply does not.
Later I will prove Ultimate Thor Durability is as great as 616 base on feats and a showing of his multi thousand years of skill.
And there's this, Ultimate Thor couldn't beat Ultimate Colossus even if Ultimate Colossus is on Banshee. The 616 version of Colossus is far stronger than the Ultimate version of Colossus. 616 Thor is far stronger than 616 Colossus! Where does that put Ultimae Thor, who couldn't defeat Ultimate Colossus. You can show us as many scans as you choose, but you know the truth! 616 Thor for the win.
And there's this, Ultimate Thor couldn't beat Ultimate Colossus even if Ultimate Colossus is on Banshee. The 616 version of Colossus is far stronger than the Ultimate version of Colossus. 616 Thor is far stronger than 616 Colossus! Where does that put Ultimae Thor, who couldn't defeat Ultimate Colossus. You can show us as many scans as you choose, but you know the truth! 616 Thor for the win.
LOLOLOLOL you think that is a poor showing!?
Ultimate Colossus is a easy 5000 toner.
Thor was trying to bring Colossus in alive. That was the plan with the X-Men period.
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Ultimate Colossus has Held a Suped up Jet down. Lifted 50,000 Tons of Water Filled Submarine. Resisted Mags 100,000 Ton Magnetic Powers, Stop 5000 Tons of Train in motion, and One Shot Iron Man going Mach speed......
Now did Colossus with enraged 5000 ton strength beat Thor into a KO... NO. Did Colos manage to damage Thor really? No!
Thats a Durability feat for Ultimate THOR!
Back off your making me look good with your Fanboyism.
Also this is a debate with me and Pyrogram. Not any 616 Fanboy who jumps in with no knowledge on the Ultimate Verse.
So fast he matches Ultimate Quicksilver in a heated battle for life and death of his planet.
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Ultimate Quicksilver is fast enough to obliterate Speedsters who move so fast that the world stands still with Speed alone.
Point of these showings? Hyperion and Quicksilver are UBER FAST. Yet...
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Scans 1-3 Thor 3 times reacts and Tag Ultimate Quicksilver via Lightning. Quicksilver is fast enough to dodge said Lightning a few times as well. Scans 4-6 is a Speed Blitzing Hyperion who is easily reacted and smacked by Thor.
This is Reaction Speed and Combat Speed that 616 just never been able to come close too.
Really? Wolverine is faster than 616 Thor!
Cant Tag a Slower 616 Quicksilver?
Spider Man is too fast!
Cap even says he is slower.
Speed of Light is roughly 186,000 miles a second where Speed of Lightning 87,000 miles per second. That is only 12,000 Miles per Second off from Half the speed of light. Pretty good speed for Casual Reaction on Ultimate Thor Part!
Seriously Speed wise Ultimate Thor has never been blitz and keeps up with Blitzing foes on a regualr basis.
He can redirect, block, and move faster to 616 Thor period.
@CadenceV2: Very nice, very nice, I salute you. Now.
Now. Ultimate Thor is faster and that's the ONLY advantage. But you highlight his low showing's vs speed freaks, He has easily manhandled and beaten the likes of silver surfer who is stupidly superior to ultimate Thor in combat and travel speed.
Ultimate Thor will not be able to use speed as an advantage in this battle.
He simply does not match the speed needed to get Thor into trouble. In the next few scans he defeats surfer.
And He could also just do this to Ult Thor while distracting him with lighting.
If it KO'd galactus for like 5 seconds it will EASILY Kill Ult Thor. That attack was FTL.
This will also Kill Ultimate instantly and Thor can easily Distract Him with lighting.
And.Ultimate Thor is NOT stronger than 4 Mjolnir strength weapons all attacking him at the same time.
It levels an ENTIRE mountain range and Thor just gets up.
And survives a beam of destroyer attack without dieing.
@jeanroygrant: And the Time Traveling, Mutli Dimension Hopping, Transmutation, ect have not been use or out right lost during Classic to Current versions.
Heck Thor has been thru many different versions from Classic, to King, to Odin Force, to Rune king, to more current versions. To say they're all the same and debate that way is outright recockulas. Its like saying SA Superman feats are applicable to New 52......
I don't agree that there equal so much, but we weren't comparing Odin Force Thor and ect, just Current, and Classic.
@jeanroygrant: they are the same. end of. Don't derail the thread. we have it sorted.
Yeah its all good now.
It can never be question that 616 Thor is one of the most Durable beings in the Marvel Verse of his Tier. However Ultimate Thor is as durable with his showings.
I posted the Colos already in response and prove just how Superior in strength Ult. Colossus is to 616 Colos.
Here some better Durability Feats.
This is a still fully powered Zarda (aka Power Princess) who strength is on par with Hyperion himself.
...
Scan 1 Zarda's Bio
Scan 2-5 Zarda effortlessly beats Ultimate Hulk who is also as powerful as Savage Hulk.
Scan 6-7 Zarda Pulverizes Hyperion Younger self
Scan 8 Zarda effortlessly takes out Thunder Ball of the Wrecking Crew.
Point is Zarda is no weakling.
Then we have the Fight with Hyperion himself.
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If thats not convincing then how about his fight with Hyperion! Here he actually draws blood in Hyperion where Hyperion merely sacked him down.
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Then next few pages while Hyperion is still flying Thor hits him with a Lightning Bolt and then proceeds to beat on both Hyperion and Zarda (Hyperion's equal in stats) like trash. Even Dr. Spectrum realize Thor was too much for Hyperion at this point.
Also to anyone who read Ultimate Power this battle between Thor and Hyperion was before Scarlet Witch cut the Squadron Supreme power in half. INCLUDING the last 3 scans.
To get a good Idea of Hyperion's durability...
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As seen this is the kind of Power required to even bruise Hyperion. He mentions how he barely felt the attacks from Doc Spectrum.
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It takes this kind of attack to even Subdue Hyperion.
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Hyperion Tanks 20 Nukes at ground Zero. No KO either. He was in bad shape.
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Hyperion nearly one shots Invisible Woman Force Field and Tanks Human Torch Nova Heat!
All this is Hyperion Durability.
Yet...
Thor easily Draws Blood with every hit.
Heck outright beat Hyperion here. That goop on Hyperion Hands is a form of weakness to Hyperion and Thor at this point straight won by Blasting Hyperion in it. What is real Impressive is how Evenly Match Ultimate Thor is with Hyperion who is the Confirmed equal of this Hyperion.
The same Hyperion who matches Gladiator easy...
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All confirmed by Scarlet Witch and Arcanna when Scarlet Witch brought the copies of the 616 Squadron Supreme into the fight with Supreme Power Verse Squadron Supreme. Effectively halving the power and thoughts.
...
All this is important to know as it shows and prove how strong and durable Ultimate Thor is with his fight with Hyperion and Zarda.
Then we have more easy to understand reference with Thors Fight while he was Depowered against the Whole Ultimate Team and 4 Captain Britains.
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This battle above is a Depowered Thor who needed his Belt to activate his powers. He fought 4 Captain Britains (each one was a 100 toner and matching durability), 2 Iron Man Suits, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch. He beats them all pretty handily while HOLDING BACK! He says it many times he doesnt want to hurt his team mates. He then nearly finishes them all off with a Mass Lightning Attack. Till QS took his belt and depowered him.
That was when HE WAS Depowered. He has his god powers since Ultimates 2. So no weakness there.
So to say Ultimate Thor is not as durable as his 616 counter part is inaccurate. His Durability is impressive.
Yes, his durability is VERY high but 616 has the obvious advantage, none of that shows him being able to tank destroyer level attacks... being hit by FOUR Mjolnir tier weapons and just walking it off.
He also tanked MANY hits from the phoneix Five that would have killed most other Avengers.
You posted scans of hypersions durability, This is not really relevant, its just showing how strong Thor is. And 616 could have easily done the same without a debate over it.
Thor was strong enough to do THIS to Juggernaut and we know his durability is beast.
Nearly Kills Hulk in one hit, this would probably Kill Ult Thor in one.
I am now just going to give you a LOAD of Thor Strength feats I found on Thor CURRENT feats thread.
Thor knocks Klaw over with extreme ease, and one-shots Modok who says he has a force-field that can protect him from a nuclear bomb? Thor makes Ultron flee, and tanks his explosion at point blank
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Thor can travel to other dimesions easily, Thor flips Flanir, Thor speed-blitzes Quick-Silver - He actually beats Quick silver, A lot of people use this against Thor, but It shows when needed he can still beat a speedster, even if not Tag them but Beat them.
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Thor beats Sif as a teen, & Thor vs amped Storm
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Thor VS Grey Gorgyle ( Thor outsmarts him ), & Thor vs amped Crimson Dynamo
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Thor & Luke Cage VS Juggernaut, Thor's radius attack, Thor staggers Amtsu Mikaboshi ( Guy who consumed/absorb 98% of the multiverse ), & Balder tells a time when Thor almost killed Hulk
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Thor stomps Rulk easy( Rulk wasn't fighting back )
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Thor's hammer Mjolnir out raced Silver Surfer
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Thor is the only one to have seem to hurt Michael Korvac
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Thor manipulates the matter in his suit to make his amour & transmutes someone using Iron Man as a vocal point
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Thor has good accuracy
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Thor VS Iron Man
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Thor VS Galactus
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Thor fights his uncle Serpent, resulting in both of there deaths
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Thor VS Hela ( Amped )
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Thor VS The Disir
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Thor VS Hercules ( Both using the others armor, and weapons )
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Thor lifting a plane with ease
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Thor VS Amedus Cho
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Thor VS Enchantress
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Thor VS Phoenix Force
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Thor kills the Demogorge
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The Dark Avengers fear Thor ( Or it could have been, because they didn't have Sentry with them at the moment )
@Pyrogram: Some of these Respect Threads are flat out wrong. Thor speed Blitz QS?! I showed he couldnt react or touch QS at all. Yet you just posted he does when he clearly does a AoE attack not a speed blitz.
Dark Avengers fear Thor? Ofcourse they did Sentry was there only heavy hitter.
Thor vs Phoenix.... Thor never defeated, harmed, or slowed down the Phoenix Force at all. In fact...
He was powerless before Cyke with the PF......
Heck Galactus been nut check by Herculese but everyone here knows Galactus >>>> Thor and Herculese.
Also his Travel Speed with Hammer means nothing in a Combat Speed Scenario. Its cool to see he can travel Dimension but what about Other Multiverses?
Thor can BFR anything to another Universe. 616 Thor has no answere to that base on his current Feats.
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Heck Thor loves to BFR crap away. It really in character for him too.
Heck Thor BFR his Brother Loki, Troll Army, and the entire Liberation Army with a single Blast Wave. He doesn't need to hit you with a Hammer as this Scan and the Helicarrier Scan show.
Then we have the Instant Teleporting Blitzes Thor does.
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Like Thor does to Hulk here. Thor Skill is also impressive in this showing. He knows exactly what Damage he has caused.
Again Lightning Teleport that 616 Thor has no way to react to.
While we are on Lightning Ultimate Thor makes far greater use of Lightning when compared to 616 Thor.
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Thor takes out half the Chitauri Fleet with one charge attack. Again 616 Thor is not dodging this thanks to his slow speed.
Thors Lightning is powerful enough to cause Hyperion major damage. Hyperion Durability is easily equal if not greater tha 616 Thor as anyone who knows Hyperion and the Scans I showed of Supreme Power Hyperion.
Then we have what I belive better Skill showings than 616 Thor. Examples.
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Loki, Balder, and Thor were Asgards best warriors. Loki's skills are solid.
He has shown more Combat Skill.
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Then in this Contest of Skill Thor beats Loki. His skills are rated second only to Balder.
Again knows what damage he is causing and going for. I never seen 616 Thor showing any idea what damage he is causing or what he hopes to accomplish swinging his hammer.
Fact is 616 Thor is a hammer swinging Vicking first and formost who rarely uses Mijnor's powers except for plot device where Ultimate Thor uses Lightning alot as well BFRing and the ability to travel to Multi Verses.
Along with superior combat speed, Easy BFRing, better use of Lightning that can harm and cannot be dodge by 616 Thor, and instant Attacks via Lightning Teleport Ultimate Thor has the tools needed to win with Durability Enough to stay in this fight.
@CadenceV2: He beat quick silver though, so its a pointless discussion.
Thor could just teleport back from wherever he get ported so that's not an issue for him. Thor Lost time travel, he can go where he wants apart from that.
None of what you posted is as durable as Thor 616 is, and Nothing you posted would KO 616 Thor, he has been through higher, I did not say he beat phoenix, I said Ult Thor probably would have died from those moves against him.
How is he better use of lighting? Thor 616 can use lighting without his hammer, He can use it to harm Sky father level beings which would incinerate Ult Thor instantly.
And 616 Thor could just do a storm that engulfs the earth to kill Ult Thor. That would be immense, even if that does not kill him, It is a distraction that will give 616 time to FTL charge into Ult killing him instantly, show me Ult Thor having the reaction speeds to stop a FTL attack while distracted.
And if things get to hard, He can do a casual Godblast ( this scan is not on comic vine, I had to find it on my own collection )
He is losing the battle hard, so uses a god-blast in a last attempt. He did it without a charge up or anything, He said it is not at full power ( until he concentrated ) but this would easily KILL ultimate Thor without a debate. - This is one of his first godblasts, that is why he is under strain.
@CadenceV2: He beat quick silver though, so its a pointless discussion.
Thor could just teleport back from wherever he get ported so that's not an issue for him. Thor Lost time travel, he can go where he wants apart from that.
None of what you posted is as durable as Thor 616 is, and Nothing you posted would KO 616 Thor, he has been through higher, I did not say he beat phoenix, I said Ult Thor probably would have died from those moves against him.
How is he better use of lighting? Thor 616 can use lighting without his hammer, He can use it to harm Sky father level beings which would incinerate Ult Thor instantly.
And 616 Thor could just do a storm that engulfs the earth to kill Ult Thor. That would be immense, even if that does not kill him, It is a distraction that will give 616 time to FTL charge into Ult killing him instantly, show me Ult Thor having the reaction speeds to stop a FTL attack while distracted.
And if things get to hard, He can do a casual Godblast ( this scan is not on comic vine, I had to find it on my own collection )
He is losing the battle hard, so uses a god-blast in a last attempt. He did it without a charge up or anything, He said it is not at full power ( until he concentrated ) but this would easily KILL ultimate Thor without a debate. - This is one of his first godblasts, that is why he is under strain.
Ult Thor has no comeback to this move.
Just as 616 Thor has no comeback from Multiversal BFR (many characters can Dimension Hop, not many can Multiverse hop) or getting pounded non stop by Ultimate Thor superior Combat Speed and Lightning uses.
You say he will simply Godblast and end match. Yet this scan clearly shows he has to think a long second before figuring out what to do. Ultimate Thor Skill > 616.
Also is Thor TP sense.
As I shown he can easily sense these attacks coming like he sense Quick Silver Speed Blitz, Banners Secretes, and Phoenix hiding in Jean.
Its a repeated Feat for Ultimate Thor that saves him alot.
Anyway Im done with this. I proven that unlike the brawler and biggest advantage is strength 616 Thor that Ultimate Thor is smarter, problay more skilled, Faster, and has unique powers in BFR, TP Sense, and better use of Lightning. Like I said Ultmate Thor destroyed Asgard and all the Ice Giants and Asgardian Level Nazis with one Hammer blow.
Odin demanded a "World Crusher" and seeing it was used to destroy all of Asgard and all in it doesn't make that statement Hyperbole to me.
@CadenceV2: BFR would do nothing, he can just teleport back.. He does it like every issue to Asgard and back for example. How will Ultimate Fair against a storm that could destroy earth? Thor has done that? Against Godblasts? Thor has done that. Against FTL attacks. Yep, storms to defeat skyfathers? Yep.
Ultimate has no answer.
If Thor can defeat somebody like silver surfers speed and quick silver Ult is a break in terms of speed.
@CadenceV2: BFR would do nothing, he can just teleport back.. He does it like every issue to Asgard and back for example. How will Ultimate Fair against a storm that could destroy earth? Thor has done that? Against Godblasts? Thor has done that. Against FTL attacks. Yep, storms to defeat skyfathers? Yep.
Ultimate has no answer.
If Thor can defeat somebody like silver surfers speed and quick silver Ult is a break in terms of speed.
You showed no proof, that Thor can transport back from another Multiverse. At all.
You showed no answere to anything close to 1/3 speed of light attacks.
nothing to go against Ultimate Thor TP sense.
All the talk of beaten Skyfather beings is great and dandy yet Thor most of the time had Plot Device or Odin Force like he did with Bor. On Average he still had troubles with simple high tier beings like Loki, Rulk (while Odin Force to boot), Savage Hulk, Juggernaut, Dr. Doom, Hercules, Thor Buster Iron Man, and even Classic Ghost Rider.
All the talk of Skyfather beings don't amount to much when Silver Surfer casual fights Thor on a even level when Thor is Blood Lusted. Beings like the Serphant kill him. Mangog a foe thor could never hope to beat. Hell Beta Ray Bill beaten Thor twice!
He is not the same level as Galactus without Odin Force or Runes at all. He is no more out of Ultimate Thors league than say Hyperion is to 616 Thor.
The flash of light thing in comic's in that context means its FTL...
I showed you a scan of him beating a skyfather with lighting.
Beta Ray bill would destroy Ultimate Thor.
This is not a debate anymore, its you dictating why ultimate will win, I cant be asked for that. You just say speed this speed that and forget Thor beats people who make Ult Thor look like nothing in speed terms and power levels.
The flash of light thing in comic's in that context means its FTL...
I showed you a scan of him beating a skyfather with lighting.
Beta Ray bill would destroy Ultimate Thor.
This is not a debate anymore, its you dictating why ultimate will win, I cant be asked for that. You just say speed this speed that and forget Thor beats people who make Ult Thor look like nothing in speed terms and power levels.
You can post Scans all day of Thor beating Skyfathers with Amped Powers, Odin Force himself, Plot Device, ect all you want. At the end of the day his average showings is no more impressive than Ultimate and I wont argue 616 has better strength feats but Ultimate is proven to be the faster by far and Speed along with Strength enough to harm 616 is a near unbeatble combo as is BFRing and Lightning quick Range Attacks that harm Hyperion Level beings.
Also Ultimate Thor beaten Ultimate Loki at his peak with ease. This guy is a Magic Realtiy Warper of the highest caliber. Ultimate Loki is a 4th Dimension being.
He is a World Level Reality Warper and has feat like this...
Burns the entire Sky.
.. Summons a Entire Army from nothing.
Loki walks and lives in the 4th Dimension.
Heck Ultimate Loki had Reality Warp everyone into thinking he was some famous Scientist responsible for Thor's powers. He Reality Warp the world into thinking Captain America killed Hawkeyes Family. He used his Reality powers to create the Liberation Army without SHIELD knowing.
He took normal Humans and with his powers made them into Thor Level Super Humans with real powers!
Loki Skill and Arrows alone killed some of the biggest players in Asgard as well Empower a ENTIRE Nazi invasion force with Super Human Stats.
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Left to right. Killed Balder. Harmed Thor. Killed Odins Crows and a portion of the OF. Killed Heimdall.
Loki is a skyfather in feats and accomplishments alone. This guy has a portion of the Odin Force thanks to the Norn Stones he had stolen when he killed Balder.
Ultimate Loki >>> 616 Loki.
Yet for all his power....
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Thor effortlessly beats him. The hardest part was beating his Magic Reality Warping TP abilities. Then Thor showed his portion of the Odin Force thru Mijolrnir.
You speak of beating Sky Fathers. Like Bor? Who displayed no real power but brute strength and fought a Odin Force Thor?
Hardly a fair comparison when Bor was more a Tank like Hulk than a Sky Father with all kinds of powers like Ultimate Loki (who would probably just depowered Bor lol) and took Odin Force Thor to beat where Ultimate Thor defeated Loki and BFR him to Odin.
Too simply say all I debate is Ultimate Thor Speed is wrong. it plays a role in dodging attacks and countering. The fact is Ultimate Thor has beaten beings like Hyperion, Zarda, Loki (more sky father than 616 Loki), Hulk, Chitauri Warfleet (these guys were packing Solar System Bombs), and the Ultimates + Euopean Ultimates Team.
He is comparable in Durability and exceeds in speed and skill use with powers as well TP use. He doesnt need to brawl although with his Speed he can certaily counter and attack where it hurts. Mijnor was strong enough to end worlds (like Asgard) already.
Something I would like to mention to many of you is that Ultimate Thor had some pretty good durability showings against the Children of tomorrow from my memory. And these stats here:
These don't match up to 616 Thor, but then again these stats were written BEFORE he got his amp. The stats here are from 2005 and Thor got his true power in 2007ish when Odin answered his call and restored him as a true god. So there's a good chance that he is even stronger than all his showings Pre-Ultimates 2.
I just wanted to add that. Of course 616 Thor has a lot more showings due to a longer writing life span and Ultimate Thor has a lot to grow. But I haven't seen Ultimate Thor perform any crazy feats with his hammer, not like all the transmuting stuff 616 Thor has done.
@CadenceV2: I'm not talking about Bor and not going to continue if you clearly do not read what I am posting. And you refuse to answer how Ult will defend against a casual Godblast, Speedblitz attacks and other things I mentioned. I Cannot debate with somebody who refuses to read what I post and just talks about speed...speed..speed.
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