Battle of the Week: Cyclops vs. Gambit

I'm actually backing Gambit right now, although I haven't yet voted. How familiar is Cyke with Remy in all reality? I know he's very used to working with Logan, Nightcrawler, Colossus, etc...but I can't really recall him working with Remy too often and even then Gambit is always a wildcard. Cyclops is the keener mind, but a lot of his tactical skills come from knowing and understanding the people on his team and who he's facing. If Gambit is hard for him to work with, he's likely going to be hard to fight against for Scott. Is there any evidence of his familiarity with Remy beyond "they're both X-Men"?

I also tend to agree that Cyclops has been shown to be just a Durable as Gambit. Energy Projection is another that I would disagree with the original poster on. With that particular category I am more apt to give the vote to the person who doesn't need a secondary object to use their power. And lastly, Agility and Reflexes? It seems that you just added another version of the same category under a different name. If you are going to do that why not have "Strategic Mind" and "Intelligence"?

I was going to say Cyke as he could just plow through everything.

Yet, Gambit has ranged, explosive powers which are handy. There's items in the surrounding area that could help him too. Plus he's more agile, stealthy, has better reflexes & he fights h2h better.

I'll have to wait and see, since the starting distances are only 25 ft. apart.

Z'

My money is on Gambit.

@theblackhood: I gave Gambit the durability edge due to the fact that his mutant power increases it beyond that of a normal human. Also no Reflexes and Agility are not the same. Agility is how well someone can maneuver around the battlefield and get out of the way of things with an excellent effort, while reflex is how well someone can recognize something and react to it as quick as possible.

That's precisely why I asked. I do think Agility and Reflexes make sense as different categories, but if that is the case then Intelligence could be included as well.

If 'Energy Projection' is anything like 'Power output' then I'm pretty sure a solid case can be made for Cyclops. Even though thinking that Gambit should win makes a lot of sense, this list in particular looks a little biased if you ask me...

Even though I like this battle, I think it would have been cooler to see Cyclops leading a team (maybe him and two other X-Men) vs another team (led by Cap or Black Panther, for example) so that we could put his skills as a leader and strategist to the test (and also to mix things up a bit).

Post AvX Cyclops could have also been an interesting choice, because he is more experienced and less forgiving; but also less powerful. Those are just my two cents and I'm sorry I didn't come up with these ideas sooner.

Cyclops month is ending after this battle.

@surfingthehighway: Post Avx Scott is more powerful. He would have been an awful choice.

I know, which is why I said I was sorry. I wish I had thought of this sooner, maybe K4tz or another of the guys could have read it :/

You guys are right Intelligence should be it's own category so i went in and added it. I do think that Gambit has the superior Energy Projection though. While Cyclops optic beams are powerful Remy can use his powers on anything, cyke might have a bigger "power output" but Gambit has many options when it comes using his ability. Sheer power is one thing but being able to use it in more ways than one is another.

@joker13csc: Indeed Gambit is more versatile, no doubt about it.

That's the word i looking for thanks.

Many of the viners here have already made impeccable arguments in favor of Gambit; I feel compelled to add my own here, especially because I love both characters. I have come to appreciate and respect Cyclops more recently (since AvX), while I have been following Gambit since X-Men 1 debuted in the 90s. Ok, here it is: Cyclops only needs one shot to take Gambit down, but it is genuinely more likely that he would never get the chance to.Scott can fire his optic blasts as fast as his eyes can target an opponent and his visor mechanism will allow. That essentially means that he is a living targeting device, capable of pinpointing a moving target as quickly as the information is relayed into his brain. However, Gambit moves faster than a non-organic, Stark-designed targeting device (which does not need to operate a visor mechanism in order to discharge). Even if we presume that Cyke's blasts propagate as quickly as a laser or photon-based energy projection, Gambit has consistently proven able to dodge even the most advanced examples of this technology. Blasts of lesser intensity he can deflect with his staff, and in several instances (e.g. UXM 298) he has been able to create barriers of kinetic energy.

Cyke can devastate an entire landscape in a blink (literally), but he has only done this in a setting devoid of potential collateral damage or when surrounded by enemies. We can presume that his most powerful optic blasts are a last resort, to be used when 1) he is surrounded, and/or 2) his opponent is large, apparently unstoppable, and/or circumstances necessitate the strategy in some other way. He is more likely to engage the enemy first, devise an appropriate strategy, and employ his powers accordingly. Here's the thing: Gambit's and Cyclops's powers actually work in a similar way. This is why: Gambit can choose to charge an object so that it will merely shock or stun an opponent, or he can charge an object to detonate with the force of a landmine. Similarly, Cyke can discharge optic blasts of varying intensities.

However, Gambit can charge anything inorganic and, most importantly, time-delay the detonation! He has proven able to surround an enemy with a dozen "grenades" of this kind. So, Gambit can also devastate a close-quarters environment quickly and easily. On a city street, he can detonate anything from a fire hydrant to a street sign, all the while dodging optic blasts.

Sure, Gambit is cavalier, (sometimes poorly written by uncaring writers), but he is both crafty and intelligent. He is by no means a master tactician, as Cyclops is, but he is fearless and generally undaunted. In hand-to-hand combat, he can take Cyclops easily. Cyke may know field combat, Judo, and basic martial defense, but Gambit is an acrobat of Daredevil caliber, knowledgeable in Savate, and more than capable of holding his own against Blade.

Cyclops, however, is a master strategist who can best multiple simultaneous opponents (even other X-Men). He can ricochet his blasts, direct them in unconventional ways, and adapt quickly to any environment. The question is: can he do this faster than Gambit can do the same? Gambit has another advantage that is usually overlooked: distracting charm. No, I'm serious. Hear me out: regardless of whether you attribute a sexual or flirtatious dimension to this ability (which various writers feel free to routinely disregard), it is nonetheless gender-neutral (he was able to charm Daken), and based in a mild form of telepathy. Gambit can even screen his mind from powerful telepaths! There is every chance that Gambit will try to distract Cyclops, a skill that requires a considerable degree of psychological manipulation and intelligence (he defeated Wolverine in this way).

I hope my points seem feasible and at least somewhat objective!

I still tend to disagree on the power output as well as the versatility of power. If this were a comparison to say, Psylocke, who has been shown to create different psychic weapons that would be one thing. But Gambit's power is no more versatile than Cyclops. He charges things up and they explode. His dependance on an inorganic object to use his power actually limits his versatility whereas someone like Cyclops doesn't need the crutch. Granted, Cyclops is limited due to his not having control of his powers. However, because of the setting of an unpopulated downtown, removing Cyclops visor would only make him more dangerous.

Nothing Gambit has ever done has ever come off as impressive to me other then his skills in sneaking and running.

Scott stomps and here's why:

Scott will always have the better strategy than gambit. He'll out smart him almost every single time. Gambit has the better reflexes and hand to hand ability but I don't see how he can dodge an optic blast up close if he even manages to close the distance.

Gambit can throw a few cards here and there and the best he can probably do is throw the whole deck which cyclops can easily negate with his optic blasts. Cyclops is faster on the draw and he can throw more projectiles on a given period of time compared to gambit. He can even pressure gambit and dictate where he wants him to go simply using his optic blasts. Cykes can basically zone him.

What happens when gambit runs out of cards? Sure he can charge some objects around him but the speed at which he throw these objects will slow down tremendously while cykes still has his powerful optic blasts. .

And assuming that they're both in character Remy is more likely to make a tactical retreat after that.

Cyclops wins 8/10.

Correct me if im wrong but other people on this thread have said that he gained back his ability to charge both organic and inorganic objects. Also both are in character so the visor won't be coming off this works in Gambits favor because now he doesn't need to worry about cyke leveling the buildings around him.

Remy's great weakness isn't in his physicals (powers, agility, training), it's in his ability to be baited. Cyclops is going to outmaneuver Gambit 7 out of every 10 times because he knows how to exploit the Cajun's weakness. That will leave him open to a crippling blow and cost him the encounter.

It's not going to be quick, but it will be the outcome.

Gambit wins. Their energy projection is about even, but Gambit can supercharge anything, and Gambit can easily dodge most of Scott's attacks. If the fight gets up close, Gambit can supercharge Scott. He did something similar to Captain America, but of course Steve withstood it. Still, I doubt Scott can withstand something like that. The whole deck thing could definitely take Scott out.

@alexanderchirila: I was with you until the charm part. Daken has been shown to have similar abilities and even kissed Bullseye to startle him and get him under control. The charm isn't going to work on Cyclops.

Scott wins in a good fight.

@theblackhood: Fair enough! I grant that Cyclops has a strong psyche--he trained with Xavier, after all. Gambit's psychic ability is unlikely to affect him terribly. It could be my own interpretation, but I've always considered Gambit's charm powers as having more of a "gypsy" character (forgive the term, better to use Roma), akin to illusion and distraction rather than a trick employed to elicit an emotional response. Something like mental sleight of hand, really. But still, even with this interpretation, it likely wouldn't work on Cyke.

Still a lot of good points otherwise. I tend to give Cyclops the edge because he doesn't rely on secondary objects for his power and also because I always tend to side with the more intelligent characters. This would be a close fight though, especially since both would be pulling their punches considerably.

Gambit for a majority in a good fight. For some reason the poll isn't working.

Cyclops, in my opinion.

But it wouldn't be an easy win.

I'd say for me it's too close to call, cyclops has been leader and had gambit on his team several times so as a leader he should strengths as well as weaknesses of his teammates. Gambit could turn a battle in his favor by "simply" knocking off cyclops visor, great tactical mind or not scott would be too concerned with containing the blast with his hand leaving him open

Scott 7/10.

There is the issue of gambit's power being the absorbing of kinetic energy and redirecting that energy.

It is what gives him categorically superhuman physical stats. It is also what makes the arguments for Nightwing beating Gambit a little too precious for me (a circa 1989 Bat maniac). If it is taken to full levels, he has trashed high level sentinels as well.

And there is the issue with Scott absorbing solar energy and converting it into concussive(read kinetic) energy in his blasts.

I know that someone like DD and Cap have put a hurt on Remy in cqc, but Gambit's high end feats make those more low showings than representative.

I see this fight going to Gambit 6/10. his Power and superhuman agility make it more likely that he will be able to dodge and maneuver close to Cyclops. His unique powerset make him especially durable against the power that Scott dishes out regularly. And then he will be able to unload with a combination of explosive powers and superhuman combat technique.

This looks like the best post I have ever done.

@alexanderchirila: Nice breakdown. Welcome to the Vine!

Gambit's charm is a power in and on its own and it deserves to be mentioned. He has used his charm before and is supposed to be another of his mutations. Of course, Cyclops is aware of it, but it don't know if the has any way to avoid being affected by it.

Maybe Gambit needs to look into his eyes for it to work? :P

Well done, mate!

EDIT: I had forgotten Cykes is nearly immune to telepathic attacks. That narrows Gambit's odds of pulling his charm off.

I haven't decided yet, but it is pretty close. Either one of them could one-shot the other (if they hit) with serious intent. (This is not to say that Cyke is going to start off with a street-clearing top-level blast; his standard beams should suffice if they hit).

Both are accurate enough that it doesn't matter who's more accurate. Cyke has a wider range of bank shot attacks, but either one of them should be able to hit whatever they're trying to hit.

Gambit is going to be much more capable of dodging a normal focused optic beam than Cyclops would be capable of dodging numerous thrown cards. On the other hand Cyke can open up to a wide (but not lethal) beam that would be hard for anyone to dodge, and he can shoot down the cards. On yet a third hand, I assume those shot-down cards would explode and cause collateral damage.

They're pretty close; close enough for Gambit to try to close in very quickly. If he manages to do so, and Cyke doesn't knock him back, then Gambit would probably take a close-quarters win through superior fighting skills, superior speed, and his charged staff. As in all the fights this month, Cyke can still shoot at Gambit even from a short distance away, so that's by no means assured. I'm not totally sure Gambit would close right away though. Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes he's a pretty charge-right in guy, sometimes he's more of a tactician.

If they go to ground and both attack from shelter/hiding, I think Gambit would have better stealth, but Cyke could still attack accurately from a great distance, let's say hundreds of feet, while Gambit is limited to throwing distance.

While Cyclops and Gambit don't have a close relationship as far as I know, Cyclops has been on the team with him off and on for years (even in in-universe time); I'm sure Cyclops has a plan to deal with him, and I would guess it has crossed Remy's mind that he may need to be able to take down Scott too, so he has also probably thought out some eventualities. As a master thief, he has to be good with planning. But I would guess Scott's plan is better.

Maybe Scott for a slight win?

I haven't voted yet but at the moment I'm siding with Cyclops at the moment. I think he could probably hit Gambit due to the fact that he's tagged Wolverine before who's similar in terms of speed with Remy (and far more durable, meaning Cyclops has to hit Logan far more than he does Gambit) and I don't see why he couldn't shoot some of LeBeau's cards out of the air seeing as been able to shoot objects varying from coins to missiles without much trouble. The fact that Cyclops has a tactical mind means that he wont just stand out in the open plus I don't think he'll be susceptible to any traps his foe might set. Put all of this together and I think Scott's the winner.

Cyclops' strategic mind and optic blasts make an extremely formidable one-two punch on this type of battlefield, as we've already seen from his previous battles this month. Under these conditions, he was able to best Wolverine (which I happen to agree with), and Ninjak too (which I happen to disagree with), and both of the those characters are immensely formidable warriors in their own right with unique abilities that Gambit only wishes he had.

However...

I'm going with Gambit for this one, primarily because of his versatility. He has the speed and skill of Wolverine, with the cunning and resourcefulness of Ninjak... just as a basic analogy/comparison, because obviously there are differences (e.g. Logan is more skilled at h2h, Remy more so with a staff, etc). But what puts Gambit over the edge in my mind is that he has his own dangerously unique set of weapons afforded him by his distinctive mutant power - the power to kinetically charge objects, including his own body. Even though he's not as precise a marksman, he can match Cyclops in long range shenanigans by hurling explosive cards, rocks, windshield wipers, or whatever else he is able to pick up on the battlefield, which could certainly throw Cyke off his game, with quick enough speed and reaction time to dodge the lion's share of Cyke's blasts if necessary. Gambit is equally as explosive in the short range and can use his power to turn just about any object on the battlefield into a ticking time bomb (including organic objects), setting up major diversions and/or using them to cripple Cyke outright, and even if Cyke knows of this ability, it is still going to be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for him to determine which objects Gambit has turned into time bombs. In close-quarters-combat, Gambit unquestionably trumps Cyke with superior kinetically enhanced speed, reflexes, and martial ability, having gone toe-to-toe and held his own against the likes of Blade and Daredevil in cqc (thank you @joker13csc for posting some scans). And even though Cyclops knows Gambit well, the reverse is also true... in other words, I do not see Gambit testing the waters much here, as he might normally do against a relatively unknown opponent, because he knows Scott and his battle mentality too well for that.

That all goes to say, this is an extremely close match simply because there is still the real possibility that Cyke might out think Gambit and lure him into the receiving end of a well timed ricochet blast that KOs him outright, but I've a harder time picturing that scenario for a majority.

Gambit wins 6/10.

(edited)

@omnicrono:

He has the speed and skill of Wolverine,

Gambit is no where near comparable in skill to Wolverine or anyone of that level of martial tier. He is probably better than Scott H2H, but he's no top tier in the form of a Wolverine, Batman, etc.

Yes. Yes he does.

Bad fight for Scott in every conceivable way.

@joker13csc:

No way is Scott "Slim" Summers stronger than Gambit either. Remy is by far and away the more athletic of the two in every way - including strength.

Let's see Scott balance himself on his index finger before we tout him the stronger one here.

Scott is really popular on the Vine. I've really no idea why. Remy should take this fairly succinctly.

It was an analogy, and so it was not intended to be perfectly accurate. Gambit is a highly skilled cqc combatant, especially with his bo staff in hand. Much more so than Cyclops. That was the point.

I know, he's so far ahead of Wolverine it's not even funny.

It ain't gonna be easy, but Gambit.

An analogy compares two things that are similar. Wolverine and Gambit's respective martial capabilities are in no way similar. Like I said in my post, Gambit is indeed the better close quarter combatant than Cyclops, but lauding him to be a Wolverine level martial artist is exaggerating quite a bit.

@i_like_swords: Yeesh, what was I thinking man? Gambit's better than Batman and Wolverine put together! I mean, look at how he owned Captain America!

Yes, it compares two things that are similar. And yes, Gambit and Wolverine are very similar in that they are both highly skilled cqc combatants, much more so than Scott. Never once said he matched Wolverine's level, much less "lauded him" as such.

Using analogy in logic is "a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect," nothing more. Nobody exaggerated anything, except for maybe you exaggerating what I wrote. ;)

Your statement wasn't an analogy. You didn't say that the two of them are similar in that they both posses a high degree of H2H skill, you just simply said that Gambit has the skill of Wolverine. That original statement was straight forward and had no ifs, ands, or buts around it. Not really an analogy so much as a definite statement.

@wolverine08 said:

@i_like_swords: Yeesh, what was I thinking man? Gambit's better than Batman and Wolverine put together! I mean, look at how he owned Captain America!

WOW. What a blatant disregard for context. It's beyond obvious that Cap had gone SSJ2 in that scan.

In close fight Gambit is better H2H fighter, faster and more agile. Gambit`s stealh skills will help to attack Cyclops so Scott won`t even see him coming, Like Gambit vs Bishop in X-treme X-Men.

Cyclops can be dangerous on long distances but Remy is fast enough to avoidand dodge beams. In Hawkeye vs Gambit fight Clint told that Gambit was so fast that it is even was hard for Hawkeye to aim.

Downtown city is the best place for Gambit to fight. He can show all his stealth skills and will win.

Also Gambit can charge objects from distance like he did in his solo issue 13.

Ans if because if some weird reason Remy will be loosing he will cheat)

Gambit is winner!

lol... seriously dude..

I'm telling you, here and now, that it was intended as an analogy and nothing more. What more do you want? I even edited the original comment to make it more clear for people like you who seem to like to pick at nits more than actually understand the underlying point of what was said... which in this case was that Gambit and Wolverine are both much more skilled than Cyclops. Hence the analogy/comparison. The reason I used Wolverine is because Cyclops already faced off against him this month in the polls, same with Ninjak, so it should still be pretty fresh in viners' minds.

If your original statement had actually been an analogy(Which you don't seem to have an actual understanding of) I wouldn't have even commented. I don't know why you're categorizing my point of contention as being nit picky just because I pointed out that your original statement(Without the added explanation you put it in) was a completely incorrect overestimation of Gambit.

I see gambit taking this sure cyke would blast away cards that he throws but I could see gambit using it as a distraction to blitz cyke to close the distance from there it's a h2h fight gambits agility an speed will dominate