Aquaman vs undyne the undieng

battle on a beach

no outside help

undyne gets feats from all play routes

standard gear

morals off until death

who wins?

callouts aquaman @dondave@veshark@comicstooge@patrat18@darkseid1006@fallschirmjager@demonknights@godzilla44@comicdude360@matchesm

anyone got undertale callouts cant find any

Here we go again.

@cpt_nice: what? it seems like a fair match

It isn't.

@cpt_nice: how so?

@roborexalpha: Undyne has next to no quantifiable feats, her best one is casually suplexing a boulder. Aquaman has done stuff like carrying an entire ship.

Feats?

@cpt_nice: didnt undyne dodge a lightting speed attack?

No, Frisk supposedly did by dodging a lightning attack from a monster called Volkin, and Undyne is scaled to be faster than Frisk. The problem with that is, all attacks in the game are non-quantifiable. Sans does not really summon enormous masses of different sized bones and there are no planes dropping literal fireballs. So those encounters cannot be used feat wise. We have very little in the way of feats for Undyne, outside of said Boulder feat, her using a couch as a pillow and her superhuman speed.

I have a doubt, in another thread (related to Sans I think), you argued that there is nothing to suggest any Undertale battle is taking place in the astral plane. Yet here you say Sans does not really summon bones, etc. So what's the deal? Can the monsters soul attack, but Frisk cannot?

@cpt_nice: well durabillity wise undyne with the power of detrimation still needed to be attack after a should be fatal blow. And yes its from a child but that child frisk/chara is a reality warper and has soul maniplation which explains why he is able to kill monster with just a knife. Aquaman had a hard time fighting black manta h2h and undyne is a lot faster than manta

Bump

@shirso:

I have a doubt, in another thread (related to Sans I think), you argued that there is nothing to suggest any Undertale battle is taking place in the astral plane. Yet here you say Sans does not really summon bones, etc. So what's the deal? Can the monsters soul attack, but Frisk cannot?

I never mentioned the astral plane, although that might be an explanation. All we know for sure is, monsters are like 99% magic so although they can do stuff in the physical realm (like picking up stuff and eating), their attacks are unlikely to be physically harming. This is supported by your soul cracking when you are "killed", not you actually dying. By the way your attack on the monsters looks though (a literal knife slash if you are controlled by Chara), it is implied your attack is definitely physical. So my bet would be monsters can physically attack you but the damage is literally done to your soul, not your body, and your attack hurts their soul because in case of monsters their body IS literally their soul. Monsters die after one hit with killing intent after all.

@roborexalpha

well durabillity wise undyne with the power of detrimation still needed to be attack after a should be fatal blow. And yes its from a child but that child frisk/chara is a reality warper and has soul maniplation which explains why he is able to kill monster with just a knife. Aquaman had a hard time fighting black manta h2h and undyne is a lot faster than manta

The only problem I see is that Aquaman in character does not really have much killing intent, but he can still harm Undyne, and she is not strong enough to get past his durability.

The PC/Chara does not have soul manipulation or reality warping as a skill. The Underground grants the power of SAVE and LOAD to the being present with the highest determination, which normally is Flowey but switches to the player when they enter the Underground.

I dunno how fast Manta is, but Undyne by quantifiable feats is not even supersonic, probably just fte. She does save Monster Kid by jumping in front of your attack, which implies she is faster than a regular person.

EDIT: Just saw everyone is morals off. That just makes the fight even easier for Aquaman.

@cpt_nice: soul.maniplation is the player controlling their in in combat. And saving and loading can destroy and create diffrent timelines which i belive is reality warping further evidence for soul maniplation is abitlty to absorb souls which humans and monsters have

She can't do anything against a dude that can sink continents.

@cpt_nice: "Monsters can physically attack you, but the damage is done to your soul",....so all those weird attacks, like Asgor summoning sunlight, that Spider woman summoning a literal monster to devour you, final form Flowey going absolutely ballistic all take place in the physical realm?

In that case Frisk is casually FTL for starters.

Undertale is weird to say the least. Some say Flowey and Sans are multiversal, while others claim they are not even street level. Strangely there are valid arguments from both sides.

Just out of curiosity how would you tier final form Flowey and Frisk?

@cpt_nice: didnt flowey say that once he gets 7 human souls he becomes god? And chara is least planet level since he/she desrotus the planet at least or the entire verse at most

Aquaman hands her his trident and then makes her impale herself on it.

Wtf

The whole point of Undertale is that you don't need to kill anyone, why would people put them into battles.

@shirso: well they need a whole of souls to become poweeful without soul flowey chara are low to high street. With soul they arw mountain level at least, planelt for middle and uni to mutli versal at best

Undertale should really not be used in battles, it is totally unfit for it. It is superhard to rank them and most of their feats take place in that little gameplay screen and are totally unquantifiable. Problem is because the game is so popular (and rightfully so, because it is amazing) people want to use it in Versus battles and now you have threats where Frisk is supposed to take on Galactus...

If you mean Chara, they are implied to be a planetary threat, but feat wise they are city level at best. Omega Flowey should be on a similar tier.

@roborexalpha

didnt flowey say that once he gets 7 human souls he becomes god?

It is implied that he could take over the Earth, like Chara, but that statement on itself means little. He did regain the power of SAVE/LOAD by absorbing said souls.

And chara is least planet level since he/she desrotus the planet at least or the entire verse at most

Actually we just see the Underground being empty. At no point do we see Chara taking over the entire Undertale earth. In fact, Chara being a threat to the entire world is only ever implied. It is not impossible that their use of the Underground's powers would make them a planetary theat, but damage output wise? Not even close.

Because people like to use the stuff they are passionate about. But in the case of Undertale it leads to very uncomfortable situations. I love that game to death and it genuinely makes me facepalm when people make dumb threads involving it. This is like the least bad one I have seen, since Undyne actually has confirmed superhuman feats.

@roborexalpha: I have a simple question.

Let's take that spider chick for example, the one who takes you for a spider psychopath.

During the course of the fight, she constrains the motion of your soul, later summons her "pet" to literally devour you, amongst a whole host of other crazy shit.

Now, all this is either in the physical, or the astral realm, meaning she either actually summons a monster to eat you, or attacks your soul in that way.

Both of which are quite impressive to be honest, but the latter is more probable. And that is no joke. It means even low tier Undertale monsters can throw some really dangerous offense at your soul. Characters without feats against soul attacks will simply get one shotted. In that case Undertale is on a whole new level and people like Undyne easily solo most anime verses as well as lots of Marvel and DC heavy hitters as well.

@cpt_nice: ok then if its just the underground that was destroyed, that puts chara at city or mountain level and lol wete getting really if topic this supposed to be undyne vs aquaman

Now the first part is a good analysis and I mostly agree, but the underlined part... Frisk is not stated to be a special human being with enhanced soul resistance. They DO have a lot of determination, even for a human being. So if we extrapolate that to a real fight, a random superhero who is determined to win, will be similarly equiped to deal with these soul attacks. And as we all know, monsters are <<<<< humans.

Most likely, the strongest monsters (Undyne, Asgore, Sans) can probably deal with street levelers who are not particularly determined.

@shirso: true, if they are attacking your soul and uses soul attacking powers that puts alot of undertalle characters high teir soul maniplators and magic users

Not even close, as I explain in the post above your own. "Soul battles" in the Undertale verse are all about determination. Monsters have very little, humans generally have a lot, Frisk has a lot as far as humans go. But so would someone like Batman, who is streetlevel.

@cpt_nice: I agree for the most part. I think the entire point hinges on how far we can extrapolate "Determination" as in Undertale to determination as we know it. But yeah, Undertale shouldn't be used in battles. It's too weird a verse.

@cpt_nice: so your saying that detramatiom is resistance to soul based attacks?

@shirso: but but i want to see who would win if joker and sweeetooth fought flowey and chara

Agreed.

It is shown to work that way. If the player manages to get their healthbar down to zero (which is quite clearly a gameplay mechanic and not something that actually is there), their soul will crack and the text will urge the player to "don't give up, stay determined!". Humans are also often stated ingame to be so much more powerful than monsters because they are more determined and have killing intent, something monsters rarely if ever have.

@cpt_nice: I guess that makes sense.

@cpt_nice: why are humans more powerful thab monsters? Preety sure undyne with superhuman feats>>>>>>>> average person and for killing intent most monsters in undertale besides guys like toreial and sans try to kill you when you encounter them

Monsters are literally stated to be much weaker multiple times. In fact, during the human - monster war ages ago, countless monsters died and humans did not suffer a single casulty. Yes, Undyne has superhuman feats, but she lacks he power to physically hurt people.

Those monsters actually do not try to kill you at all. You are dodging stuff that personifies their characters (like a jumping frog, tears, etc). There is not a single one of them who tries to kill you outright. Even Sans mentions how he cannot stop you, since you have the power of SAVE/LOAD, he just wants to stop you and make you give up, so you go back and do the pacifist run instead. He even says this outright.

@cpt_nice: wow come to think of that makes no sense how can undyne be superhuman and be able to hurt someone thats like saying that flash is FTL but he cant beat anyone in a race

Because, again, monsters are made up of 99% magic. They can alter things in the physical world, but they are really bad at harming people. They lack killing intent and determination. Undyne might be superhuman, but you never see her see her use her force to strike the player. The battle happens as a "soul battle", although I dislike using that term.

@cpt_nice: ans udyne says in the genocide run " take one step foward and i will kill you and toriel say rhat asgore will.kill you and flowey\ aswrial also say they will kill you

@cpt_nice: sorry to pester you but if there 99% magic shouldnt they be unkillable or be intangible or phase thoroough attacks?

@roborexalpha: Destroying someone's soul would effectively kill someone. They do not need to physically destroy your body for that.

In the Snowdin library, you can find several quotes that confirm the fact that monsters are not good at dealing with people.

While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water.

Humans, with their physical forms, are far stronger than us.

But they will never know the joy of expressing themselves through magic.

They’ll never get a bullet-pattern birthday card...

Because they are made of magic, monsters' bodies are attuned to their SOUL. If a monster doesn't want to fight, its defenses will weaken. And the crueller the intentions of our enemies, the more their attacks will hurt us. Therefore, if a being with a powerful SOUL struck with the desire to kill... Um, let's end the chapter here...

@roborexalpha: It is weird and somewhat inconsistent. Ingame lore and word of god literally says they are barely physical and mostly magic, but they can still move things physically, somehow. It is a bit confusing.

All the more reason why using them in battles against other verses makes little sense.

@cpt_nice: ah i see so monsters by nature are passive and dont want to fight and because of that cant hurt people and killing intent in human nature is like kryptonite to a monsters soul

@ecstaticgrace: trench feat is more impressive but we kniw the weight of the cruise ship. Whilr we dont know the weight needed to collapse a mountain cliff.

@cpt_nice: well woould it be better if the monsters in battles are bloodlusted giving them killing intent?

Exactly.

Now I do think the strongest monsters (Asgore, Undyne, Sans who is really weak but can actually teleport as confirmed ability) could probably deal with regular people like you and I. But we could quite literally solo most of the Underground if we had the intention to.

@cpt_nice: what if the underground was bloodlusted?

Eh, Sans was technically bloodlusted since you killed his brother and all, and you can still take plenty of his attacks.