BvS: What did you think of the fight? (spoilers)

I found it to bee the highlight of the movie...

But I'm curious to how you guys think the fight was portrayed. Action and effect wise I found it to be wonderful. But I didn't really expect it to end the way it did.

I mean I did expect a Batman victory after all they sort of adapted the TDKR comic book, but it didn't look like they really shot for a even well rounded fight. I felt sorry for Superman by the time the fight came to an end.

Don't get me wrong they did give him enough credit via his "Stay down. If I wanted it you'd be dead already" line and they made it clear Batman was in trouble from the way his suit got damaged (broken helmet) and how Superman eventually overcame the first kryptonite gas. ( That scene where Batman repeatedly punches Superman and it goes from Superman feeling the punches to not even flinching gave me the goosebumps and all).

But when the second wave of kryptonite gas was introduced, everything took a drastic change.

It was from that point onwards sh*t went real and we went from seeing Superman "fighting" Batman to getting used as a human wrecking ball. From getting a sink broken at his head to getting stepped on his neck at the mercy of Batman with the kryptonite spear at his hand.. I mean it looked wrong to me.. Not because I think Batman couldn't have done it considering how much kryptonite Clark inhaled in.. But because he shouldn't have and wouldn't have.

I did want to see a Batman victory, the idea of a human beating a god like figure is much more interesting than the converse, yet by the time the fight came to an end, I found myself cheering for Clark for some reason. In a strange way I felt sorry for him. A fight between the two shouldn't have ended with one at the mercy of other. For my taste a stalemate would have done the job better.. Perhaps a slight advantage for Bruce.. Maybe a short and meaningful speech after Superman was down for the count just like it was in the TDKR. Seeing Batman about to KILL Superman was too much.

In the beginning of the fight Batman was at Superman's mercy, by the end it was the opposite.

Now there will be people here saying that if Superman wanted to kill Batman he could have in the beginning where he threw him at the rooftop.. I agree with that. I mean sure that could have very much happened. But it seemed to me that Batman new what was going to happen from the beginning to the end and counted on Superman doing what he did. He expected to get thrown in the building and placed the spear in the room beforehand. He knew Clark would catch the grenade so he found a way to trick him into inhaling the kryptonite gas. It seemed to me everything was predetermined. This wasn't really a fight where it's anybody's game. This was Batman hunting Superman..

Am I bothered by that? To some extent.. I would rather see them fight each other evenly and one barely stand above the other. But considering Bat-fleck is much more violent and ruthless, everything seems in character.

Still, I built far too much sympathy for Superman after watching this movie...

I've actually heard this before from reviews. Batman comes across as a bully to some people. I think it's mainly because this Batman is shown to be so brutal and actually willing to kill, that seeing him try to kill Superman due to an obvious misunderstanding on Supermans character and motives, makes him come across as a villain. It's different here than in DKR because fighting Superman wasn't the main focus in that story and it was for different reasons. Here Batman`s sole motivation is to get revenge by killing Clark. It'll definitely polarize audiences. I also thought Batman knowing where exactly Superman would take him in the fight was a bit far fetched but it's not a huge issue IMO

@monte-cristo: He studied him for about 2 years I wouldn't say it's that far fetched

I liked it, and I liked that Superman tried to reason with Bruce at first.

I enjoyed it a lot and would put it up there with the many great moments in the movie. The problem is that I really had to go take a piss, but I still loved the fight: the cinematography, the speed, the choreography. The conclusion to the battle had me teary eyed. Spoiler alert:

@kgb725: He could have studied him for 50 years, he still wouldn't have known where Superman would have thrown him. What if Clark decided to throw him 5 miles down the road? It just seems a little bit far fetched

I hated it. After trying to talk to Bruce the fight starts. He pushes Batman, fly's up and throws Batman on that building roof and that was it, the rest of the fight he got dunked and badly by Batman. The whole time this was happening his mothers life was on the line and there was no drive from him (yes I know, kryptonite), he got beaten so bad he was lucky Lois came and saved him by explaining the Martha situation.

Anyone seen the Daredevil hallway fight scene and how he pushes himself to keep going to save that child? Or in Superman Returns where he lifts the island full of kryptonite and throws it into space? That's what heroes do, go that extra mile no matter what. This fight scene given the circumstances was so unrealistic and it seemed that it was done to please Batman fans. I blame the writers anyway.

Waiting for the people to come with the Batman had prep and kryptonite blah blah responses even though Martha Kent's life was on the line.

@monte-cristo:I wouldn't say he was willing to kill.. I mean Superman could have been an exception but I don't think he really tried to kill anyone else purposefully..

You and I pretty much felt the same.. Though I also did like that there was a definite winner, I still think it was over stated. I mean perhaps they could have still had a definitive winner, but maybe keep it more subtle, make the fight look more even for the sake of giving both characters the respect they need.

I see what you mean. Especially by the reference to the hallway fight scene. Sure, Clark could have pushed himself a little further but from what it seems this version cannot stand kryptonite very much... I mean him being able to lift an island full of kryptonite was quite illogical to me.. There are showings with different results against his weaknesses when it comes to Superman. One day he shrugs off fighting a monster made out of kryptonite. The other day a punch with a kryptonite ring is enough to make him bleed. And thats just comics which are usually more consistent than movies. But I can see how they could have made him push himself harder.

I was surprised how Batman was willing to kill Supes. If it wasn't for Lios, he would have killed Superman.

Poor Supermam :( I really feel bad for how much he had to go through in this movie.

Superman made me so sad in this movie :(

Yeah and the fact that he killed Zod in MoS to save people he didn't know yet couldn't push himself to save his mother against someone who he thought was a vigilante that was trying to kill him at the same time bothered me I guess. Ah well.

Why and all the setup for the fight is non-existant and bad to say the least. But as to the fight itself, I kind of like it. It shows how juvinile this whole thing is. It's a nice Youtube video at least.

Its nice that we have a winner at last :)

I liked the final fight with Doomsday alot.

Beata

I liked it.

It was a bit underwhelming. The Doomsday fight was amazing though. Diana gave me chills...

I thought it looked cool, but it was pretty disappointing as a Superman fan. Honestly I don't think Superman landed a single punch when the fight really began. He threw him like four times, yet Batman punched him like 20 times and absolutely pummeled him near death. Bruce could have left that fight and gone out to get coffee afterward it was such a walk in the park for him. Snyder made it look like it was a mismatch in Batman's favor.

And the worst aspect is that Batman was clearly in the wrong. He didn't deserve to win, and the fact that Batman easily could have killed Superman in the fight was just absurd.

As I was reading this, all I can think of was this.....

You're comparing trying to push yourself emotionally to trying to push yourself physically. They are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS. In one case it was only about overcoming a moral dilemma. It didn't look like it was hard at all for Superman to snap his neck (I'm talking in the physical sense).

In another scenario we have an instance where he can barely breathe, and has lost 99% of his ability. You can't overcome something that isn't overcomeable. That's like saying "hey, if that one legged man really wanted to, he could have climbed that 100 ft wall, but he didn't want it bad enough".

I have a DEEP disdain for the outcome. Batman did not deserve to win, he was in the complete wrong. Granted, Superman could have easily killed him, but still. The fight itself was good, though short.

It's just like all the comic books fights between the two that I don't like. Superman holds back and doesn't oneshot Bats, then Bats exploits one of Supes weaknesses and wins. Movie should have been a team up movie instead. Would have been way more enjoyable.

The only surprise is that Supes was willing to avoid fighting Bats alltogether. The trailers didn't give that impression.

I think it was okay, but honestly by that point the film had invested me to the point that I wasn't even THINKING about them having a fight, I was wanting them to save Clark's mum and thwart Lex's plan.

It was great. It could of been longer. The choreography at some points could be improved. I love how the Batfleck beat Supe's the f*ck up. But the reason they stopped fighting made me cringe a little on the inside.

First of all let me give everyone some bias against what I'm about to write. I'm a Superman fan.

I actually like Batman, also. How do you not? The Dark Knight is just cool. There's no denying that. He's just not my favorite.

Next. Superman actually won the battle. Why? Let's explore further.

If this were a ComicVine battle scenario, then I would have to ask the following: What are the objectives of each of the participants in this confrontation?

Batman's objective(s): Kill Superman. Morals off; as he was for most of the movie. One and a half years prep. Mech suit granting enhancements in both strength and durability. Shotgun with three kryptonite shells that release a kryptonite gas cloud on impact. One kryptonite spear. Element of surprise (as he is aware Superman knows absolutely sh!te about kryptonite).

Superman's objective(s): Primary - Recruit Batman to his cause. Morals on. Secondary - Kill Batman (Switch to morals off, only if necessary; ambiguous definition as to what point this is supposed to happen but we can be fairly sure Superman was watching the clock that Lex imposed). No prep. Random encounter for this participant.

These were stated prior to the battle.

Outcome: Batman was successfully recruited. Superman wins. Leave me alone. I like to sleep at night. But seriously, Superman is the only one of the two that achieved his goals.

In actuality, Superman tried to reason with a maniac, but realized Batman was unhinged, delusional, and on a war path. So, Superman tried to switch tactics and show Batman how outclassed he was. Again, Superman's morals are still on. Without knowledge of kryptonite (key point), he got his ass handed to him in the battle. When you're done reading this, remember that I was good enough to admit that. However, this is a good opportunity to expose Zack Snyder's horrible plot development.

Superman survives inhaling a cloud of kryptonite gas, recovers, and regains the upper hand in the battle. After the second dose, he's struggling. As a quick point, Superman should have been smarter than what happened to get him to this point (aka the jobbing starts when he needlessly charges into another kryptonite round). However, he probably recalls that he recovered before and is probably thinking he'll get a chance to do so again. This is the best reasoning I can come up with. However, Superman's strategy fails. Points to Superman for durability against a stated weakness. At this point, exposure to the kryptonite radiation from the krypto-spear renders Superman completely helpless. Got it.

Fast forward to the Doomsday battle. Superman has most likely returned to full strength due to exposure to the sun while in space (though it's not clearly stated, we can be confident this is the case). He goes for the krypto-spear. Suddenly, a single exposure to the spear renders him too weak to even swim back to the water's surface. Lois saves him. Lois throws the spear to a clear distance so Superman can recover. However, Superman can now not only hold the spear and stand up... but he can actually fly! Though strained, the Man of Steel pushes himself and rushes to the aid of Batman (who is pretty much useless, here, and is running for his life), Wonder Woman (who is holding her own), and the rest of Earth, who, let's face it, will be completely obliterated if Doomsday isn't stopped, here. Facing the most dangerous being known to anybody, ever, on this Earth, and in this universe, Superman lances the beast with the krypto-spear, embedding the deadly substance into Doomsday's chest.

Doomsday, with a bone spear of devastatingly Kryptonian durability that is birthed from his regenerating right hand (great move my WW btw), returns the fell blow he has received from Kal-El, in kind.

Superman, held in the grip of his soon-to-be murderer, grabs a nearby bone fragment of Doomsday, and steadies himself while forcing the spear completely through the body of his adversary. Superman accomplishes all of this while under the influence of the same kryptonite that rendered him too weak to either fight Batman in the mech suit, or swim a few yards. And all of this is courtesy of both the WB and Snyder's need to fulfill the plot line of The Death of Superman and have Kal-El provide the inspiration for the formation of the New 52 Justice League.

At this point, in the movie, my head exploded with screams of "F*cking PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity)."

Snyder has to pick one. Either Superman can push through, or he can't. He did so in MoS while pushing against the extreme gravity of the terraforming ship and he did it against Doomsday while exposed to kryptonite radiation. So, why couldn't he do it to overcome Batman in a way to preserve his own life, persuade Batman and save his own mother? The same mother that he dug so deep to defeat an army of Kryptonians for. Something is off here.

And to add insult to injury, Superman had 35 minutes to save his mother when Lex got on that helicopter (per both Lex's statement and his timer, IIRC). Superman didn't need to go to Gotham. He could have saved his mother on his own. He has both the sense abilities and the speed necessary, as demonstrated in both MoS and BvS. What's the problem here? Superman should have been able to find Martha anywhere on the globe within 5 minutes (and that's probably low-balling his speed). He should have done that, and had enough time to pick up flowers and dinner for Lois (throwback to Christopher Reeve's Superman, R.I.P.) and hop on the Netflix-and-chill vibe.

However, it played out the way it did, and I accept it. When Snyder announced TDKR as source material for the movie at Comic Con, I knew it was highly likely that Superman would lose the physical battle. I just think it was filmed in a way that was somewhat disrespectful to Superman. Superman with Batman's boot on his neck, barely able to speak, and Lois rushing to Clark's aid to explain why he's saying, "Save Martha." Say what you will, but the imagery is important and that's why it has been used throughout history to sway public opinion. I think it would have played better to give Batman the clear upper hand due to the kryptonite, but allow Superman to actually persuade Batman to his cause through appeal before a clear winner was shown.

But, hey, it is what it is. And it's over.

Other than that, I'll have to take what Snyder gave us Superman fans: "Stay down. If I wanted it, you'd be dead already." Yeah, Clark... we're gonna work on the whole "Winning hearts and minds" speech. Lol!

Thanks to those who hung in there while I got that off my chest.

Peace.

It was.. pretty sad honestly. Not as badass as I'd imagined it would be. Batman's fight with Luthor's thugs was more entertaining

I read your whole post btw.

Batman won the fight. Superman won the soul of Earth.

As Heath's Joker would say on behalf of Superman, "Until their spirit flourishes completely, until they get a good look at the real Clark Kent and all the heroic things he's done. You didn't think I'd (Superman) risk losing the battle for Earth's soul in a fist fight with you. No, you need an ace in the hole, mine's Martha. I took Earth's most controversial being (Superman) and I brought him up to Jesus level. It wasn't hard, you see hope as you know, is like gravity, all it takes is a massive push. Hahaha hahahaha hahahahahaha."

Agreed. Superman accomplished something greater.

That's a good Joker interpretation. What you've written is completely in character for that Joker.

Wasn't as grand as expected, I like how Batman in the end but damn, Superman looked dumb, he literally ran into the second round of Kryptonite.

Why thank you good sir.

I thought it was perfect. Kryptonite actually affects Superman in this universe. He was almost knocked out just by being within a few feet of a shard of it. So it was entirely realistic for Batman to win with it.

I did almost feel bad for superman though. Batman was brutal to him, although it's understandable given his position.

Fight was awesome but why do i get the feeling that BAtman beat the crap out of superman so easily because warnerbros wanted to satisfy batmans fans so that movie is making good bucks

/

BvS is just another Batman glorifying movie. Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie. But come on, Superman begging for his mother under the sole of Batman? Really?

I personally don't think this should have happened. I can't recall anything like this bappening in comics, then why did it happen in a movie? Kryptonite or not, I don't buy it.

Superman looked like a whinny emo kid the hole movie. And I was really disappointed at what they have done in this movie to this character.

Am a great fan of Batman, I don't think it's fair to force him up the top of the food chain in such a stupid way.

And I liked how they made Batman so intelligent and thinking clearly even under the stress of being manhandled by a god like character, and the way Supes is portrayed as a douche who has no brain and only bullrushes opponents who are way slower than him, and the second time he got hit by the krytonite grenade literally killed me. Lol even I would have seen it coming.

I think the battle was won fairly at some extent by Batman, fighting a god has to have you well prepared and coordinated, but Superman portrayal is just plain dumb and pathetic.

I think Snyder should read some other comics than just the Dark Knight.

A stalemate would have been much better for the movie.

Marvel is doing a much better work with fights amongst their characters. They don't downplay any character to make the another one look better.

As far as the fight goes i liked it. It didn't dragged and it wasn't too short. But there were few details that made it especially good.

This. It was that little thing that was needed there and i appreciate alot. Even after Kr dose when some strength returned to him he still didn't go for the kill, he only needed to push his hand through Bat-mouth or snap neck but he chose not to.

I also like Bat-smirk at the start of the fight "everything according to my plan, c'mon kryptonian scam move further just a bit".

And ofcourse psycological influence on Bruce mind via his loss from the past. So much in the scene and true to the character.

At first i thought it was stupid for Superman to run at Batman right before getting second Kr dose but on second watch i've noticed he wasn't even looking at Batman and gathered strength for the final push. Realistically speaking he was still under Kr influence and wouldn't be able to go sideways as flying and throwing Batman already took a toll on his health system, the only option was to breakthrough as fast as possible.

It was pretty accurate to me.

Against Batman. First Kr dose made him pretty vulnerable at the start(still on superhuman level) and brought huge pain with it. He recovered a bit(not even close to be fully recovered) and was able to fly for a short period of time after that he returned to level below and simply run before receiving next Kr dose. His body is always recovering but with such dose it would take a while and with newly exposed piece of Kr near the face i am pretty sure his immune system went on vacation.

Against Doomsday. Fully recovered under the Sun he dove deep into the water took that Kr spear and swim with it pretty long distance. Swimming does take more strength than walking and by extension flying(through air) should be easier than swimming as well. Then Lois threw out the spear again and he recovered a bit, took the spear(not as close to his own body as Batman held it) and the rest is history. Since Doomsday is also a kryptonian he was in the same boat as Supes, both were weaker so Supes didn't need any kryptonian level strength to push the spear further. In fact if you remember Lex didn't struggle to cut Zod's body, he even showed how easily cells are destroyed by Kr.

Batman straight up beat Superman in TDKR, which is what Snyder insists (against better judgement) on being his bible for this movie. Even the boot scene was from the comic.

I really enjoyed the fight. It was my favourite part of the movie. The cinematography, effects, and dialogue between the two really helped keep it fresh in my mind even after a week.

Glad that the film at least delivered on the title.

Question: Why do some people think Superman was holding back after he was affected by kryptonite the first time? He clearly could of killed Bruce if that hook landed without Bruce blocking it.

@the_stegman:

Yeah. But the story had completely different context to it. Everyone knew what was happening and knew how batman got the upper hand. This is why it was a great comic.

But in the movie it just look wrong, The fact is, Batman had Supes at his mercy, and begging. I was like what?

I think Snyder didn't really understand the essence of The dark knight. He just wanted to tell everyone that Batman has defeated Superman in comics (which is non canon, if I recall correctly) hence should beat him on their very first encounter on the big screen. And thats very very wrong for me.

Oh DC.

Tons of people already pointed out how overly aggressive Superman trying to explain himself to Bats, but no one mentions how bad that CGI kryptonite smoke looked?

@god_of_wrath: First, I don't get how DC is to blame for Snyder's decision. Second, Superman wasn't begging for his life, he was begging Batman to save his mother, one of the two people he actually cares about, and that I completely understand.

Superman lost, yeah, but just like in the comics, he was holding back and trying too reason with Bruce, who wouldn't listen.

I knew I wasn't the only one!?!?!? In my head I was just thinking that there was something off about that smoke.

But, in the movie, after the kryptonite affected him (which he didn't know would lose his powers), Supe's was going for the kill.

@usha: nah , he was going for a punch. He had JUST threw Batman through a building and dropped him from 50+ ft, I think he knew it would take a punch.

But from a single push, Batfleck flew quite a lengthy amount of metres. The facial expression that Supe's shown when he threw that hook (one of the most powerful punches in boxing), Batfleck would of flew so much further away (or even take off his head), off the building, than the small push he did.