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    Darwyn Cooke

    Person » Darwyn Cooke is credited in 354 issues.

    Canadian comic book artist and writer, who established himself first in animation, later to fulfill his comic book creator ambition.

    Brutally Honest: Darwyn Cooke On How DC and Marvel Must Change

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    TheBug

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    #151  Edited By TheBug
    @elayem98 said:
    " @TheBug said:
    " I am one of the biggest supporters of having gay characters in comics, but when writers disrupt a well established characters history it comes across as a stunt. When the character is only gay for a story arc, then it makes being gay seem like a choice. You do not just suddenly turn gay."
    she didnt suddenly turn gay. batwoman hadnt been in comics since the early seventies, and then it was a different continuity. They reinrtroduced her with a different backstory because she was a different character. the only similarity was name and superhero name. she did not "suddenly turn gay" "

                        
    I didn't mean Kate. I'm actually a big Kate fan. I said in an earlier post that she was a never really developed prior to Greg Rucka taking her over. Kate is a great character, well developed, interesting, and not usually a stereotype.

    I also would like to bring up the fact I cannot think of any gay men in the DCU right now other than d lister Creote. That’s a problem. Marvel has always been better about that.

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    Eyz

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    #152  Edited By Eyz

    Well, All Star Batman & Robin is just that bad :/
    The guy's right about that! 
     
    (not related to that statement, but I gotta say, I love thi guy's writing and artwork!)

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    Baconator

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    #153  Edited By Baconator
    @Theodore said:
    " hmm he sounds bitter. "
    I don't know. I think he sounds like a man who has had enough of this BS and is tired of lazy writers who pull stories and character developments out of their a**. Building a character can be a slow process and I think he's just tired of writers going the easy and flashy way by taking shortcuts. I think he is spot on. I completely agree with him on this.
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    HaloKing343

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    #154  Edited By HaloKing343

      I have to give this guy props
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    BADJEREMIE

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    #155  Edited By BADJEREMIE
    @TheBug said:
    "

    I absolutely agree with Darwyn.  I am one of the biggest supporters of having gay characters in comics, but when writers disrupt a well established characters history it comes across as a stunt. When the character is only gay for a story arc, then it makes being gay seem like a choice. You do not just suddenly turn gay.

    Yeah and Frank Miller is a joke. Anyone remember his plans for a Batman Vs Al Qaeda graphic novel?

    I am all for new ideas. I am all for creative expression, but Batman doesn’t hurt children.   It’s a fact.    

    "
    Frank Miller a joke???Batman:year one, the dark Knight returns,Sin City,300,daredevil runs,ronins...ok all star batman and robin its not for everyone but i like it and make my laught but i have a dark sense of humor ..
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    shadowpdf1

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    #156  Edited By shadowpdf1

    Leave it to a social minority to blow up all out of proportion one small piece of Darwyn Cooke's comments into the only thing people talk about.  Seriously, do gays think that Batman feeding a boy a rat is a "gay thing?"  Do they think that iconic heroes swearing is directed solely at their group?  Or characters getting raped?  And do all of you socially conscious straights really think sex or sexual orientation was the sum and total of what Mr. Cooke had to say?  This is social sensitivity at its worst, where we take a small bit out of something someone says, does, or whatever, and then beat hell out of it, ignoring the central and truly important elements of the original comments.  It's disingenuous and it's designed to muddy the waters rather than openly discuss a topic.

    At the heart of Mr. Cooke's exasperated comments was a plea for so-called creators to leave alone the time-tested works of others; to instead develop their own characters if they want to make social comments or simply explore new ideas in super-hero comics.  Mr. Cooke was lamenting that inventiveness has gone out of the industry, at least as it deals with the original and beloved heroes that began it all.
     
    In this, he is both right and wrong.  Yes, too many creators have fallen in love with their own what-if scenarios and with the current deconstructionism of comic book characters.  This is supposed to be a post-modern and cool thing that shows off not only the writer's intellect but also his worthiness to work in a serious medium (i.e., something not printed in funny books).  

    Writers always long to be taken seriously, no matter the genre or medium, and taking up a cause celebre is a fast track to acceptance.  But it's more than that.  The young fan-turned-comics-writer, which began in earnest in the '60s, has literally gone viral in the new millenium.  And so these well-meaning individuals rush in and tear up the landscape, all for the sake of sales and epic cross-over events, without a thought to the condition in which they leave the playing field when they are done. They've got a "brilliant" idea that they just have to tell, but once it explodes onto the page they leave to do something else. Very, very few stay for the long haul and develop a body of work that transcends the next over-priced hard-cover reprint.  

    Of course all of this cannot be blamed on the writer, and this is where I differe with Mr. Cooke a bit.  At the heart of the comics de-evolution of the past 40 years is the decline of the editor as a creative force.  Gone are the days of Julius Schwartz and Mort Weisinger and their generation.  Men like Julie provided steady leadership of their charges assuring continuity of character rather than being slavish to the fan-lust of story continuity. These editors had their flaws, to be sure, but Superman always looked like Superman, behaved like Superman, and in the world in which he lived Superman, and family, followed a known set of rules from writer to writer, artist to artist, year to year.  These constants may have bored the post-modernists, and fueled their what-if fires.  But to the Man of Steel's millions of fans (as well as to the fans of other like heroes) this was a comforting and enjoyable world to visit time and again.  Without such strong hands, like the dissolution of the studio system in Hollywood, the lack of editorial control in both story content and direction has lead to creative chaos.    

    There is no doubt that fantastic stories have been created in this new world of comic books.  Thank God for the modern editorial freedom that allows Hellboy and Fables and a host of other books, small and large, to thrive.  But a lot has been lost over time, too.  

    Mr. Cooke said "when the industry of superhero comics realizes it's sights to the young people it was meant for, I'll be there with both arms and feet outside."  

    While I thrill at hearing this from one of my favorite creators, I must disagree - if only slightly - with him.  

    Kids have been left out of comics for decades, to be sure.  As Mr. Cooke comments, this is an "old man's" medium now, by and large, and virtually all of the comic book producers cater to the older reader. Marvel considers itself an intellectual property marketing company that provides in its monthly offerings storyboards for potential movies.  While DC has pulled itself back from the dark brink that Marvel gleefully tumbled over several years ago, it still seems a bit embarrassed to wholly give itself over to being a comic book publisher. Image and Dark Horse and Boom and Moonstone and Dynamite have carved out a small space for themselves filling in niches.  In fact, the only company that remembers that it is, truly, a comic book publisher is Archie Comics.  And even they have stumbled a bit recently, what with their move to glossy paper and page bleeds, their bandwagon hopping "epic" events, and the ill-conceived redesigns of their bankable characters.  

    Marvel and DC have offered up kiddy fare in the past but it's not the kind of thing kids really want.  They want to be able to read Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, Green Lantern, Thor, The Avengers, et. al., without crashing into adult issues and pages worth of dialogue and talking heads without even a single punch being thrown.  Kids want action, dramatic artwork, and a thrilling pace.  Too much of today's comics plod through with endless talk, political intrigues, and other "adult" sensibilities. And while titles like Batman Adventures were interesting, even captivating, they were still segregated from the main. Kids want to be part of the ongoing action of their favorite characters, not visit a version of them at some sort of kiddie park gulag.  

    Like with everything popular, so much of comics has a sameness about it.  The fix is actually simple, though, especially for DC.  They already have natural divisions.  DC Universe, Vertigo, Wildstorm, etc.  What they need is another division; one that is actually part of the DC Universe proper.  Unlike Mr. Cooke, I believe that comics don't have to be just for kids.  It's a canvass that is so large it can hold everyone and every kind of story telling.  But what we need now is a Batman book, a Superman book, a Justice League and a Green Lantern book that tones down the adult sensibilities.  That uses some of the old-fashioned story-by-fisticuffs techniques that made those characters popular in the first place.  Not a total regression; after all it's been 50 years since the beginning of the Silver Age.  And not a total removal from the main continuity of the day, either - there will always be cross-overs and epics, and we don't want to deny these titles their place in the run.  Still, a return to the cleverest bits of old and to the character continuity that made each of those icons what they are today will spark interest in new, youthful readers.  

    Marvel could probably do it, too.  They seem to be on that path already with the quietly brilliant title Thor The Mighty Avenger, a book that outshines everything done with Thor in the past decade, and offers a bright, comic book future for the Thunder God.   

    Archie, too, could pull back from its silly experiments. Very easily.  And now that DC has messed up for a second time on the Red Circle characters, perhaps Archie will develop a relaunch that will be in keeping with its enduringly youthful audience and show respect for the characters' pasts as well.  

    Changes like this will bring Mr. Cooke back into the super-hero fold, I believe, if he ever really left.  Some closed minded creators will run from such changes, but many others will flock to the opening of these doors.  More important than that, however, will be the young.  The kids.  The ones who used to own this industry, and who surely deserve a seat or two at the table once again.  

    Bravo, Mr. Cooke!  Thank God someone prominent in the field spoke up at last!    

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    fACEmelter88

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    #157  Edited By fACEmelter88

    I think he needs a hug

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    HexThis

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    #158  Edited By HexThis
    @shadowpdf1 said:
    "

    Leave it to a social minority to blow up all out of proportion one small piece of Darwyn Cooke's comments into the only thing people talk about.  Seriously, do gays think that Batman feeding a boy a rat is a "gay thing?"  Do they think that iconic heroes swearing is directed solely at their group?  Or characters getting raped?  And do all of you socially conscious straights really think sex or sexual orientation was the sum and total of what Mr. Cooke had to say?  This is social sensitivity at its worst, where we take a small bit out of something someone says, does, or whatever, and then beat hell out of it, ignoring the central and truly important elements of the original comments.  It's disingenuous and it's designed to muddy the waters rather than openly discuss a topic.
     

    Whether or not he's homophobic is obviously a point of contention, however, his lack of eloquence and general whininess is more than apparent so I don't blame anyone for being offended by his words, they were simply clumsy and inarticulate enough to warrant that reaction and based on that quote alone it isn't ridiculous to make certain assumption. Do I believe he's homophobic? Maybe not consciously so but he doesn't make a good case otherwise in the quote everyone's discussing or else he wouldn't have had to clarify later on. 
     
    Anyways, here's what I took from his rant. 
     
    • The Norman Rockwell imagery of scrawny little boys leaning over a counter by an aged, smiling registrar is something you simply won't find in the modern world. Children don't need to read comic books when technology can permit so much in the ways of animation. I'm a child of the 90's, I saw Spiderman, Batman, the X-men, Superman and all those heroes on my television set when I was young and it quite successfully implanted them in my mind. Soon as I was old enough, literate enough, and willing I bought comics to my heart's content with a general knowledge of what I was buying.
    • I also feel comics are childish enough as it is, these 45-year old perverts Cooke describes may have adult inclinations (how else can you describe the costumes and outfits some of the women are put in?) but it is still, more or less, the same little boys club it always was. It's still a race to see how many titles we can give to the heroes who's on the most bedsheets and lunchboxes across the country. As a matter in fact, I think comic books could stand to mature in many, many way.
    • Objectification of women is the only facet of comics that's oversexed, I don't think sex has at all been over-exposed in comics because characters these days are seldom indulging in anything romantic as it is. Most couples are rigid and un-introspective, the romance of affairs between heroes in something long lost I think. Ever since Gwen Stacy's death it's been the same broken record. Pretty girl, dead girl, vegeance, emo, new girl, pretty girl, dead girl and so on.
    • Now, lesbians....hmmm. Well, I somewhat see his point there. Talk about Batman & Robin sharing a granule of homosexual subtext and fanboys go up in flames with rage yet for some reason saying Harley & Ivy are boning isn't offensive at all? There can't be a Robin in the Batman movies even with *complete* creative control because people couldn't deal with someone that effeminate or possibly sexually ambiguous but it's okay if she's a hot girl. But with that said, fully understanding that some lesbians are lesbians solely to titillate men, it's not exactly an epidemic.
     
    So many shots at the industry and none of them hit the bullseye, I don't know why he's so controversial right now, he's clearly just bitter.
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    extrememage

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    #159  Edited By extrememage

    i dont mind gay characters but someone just doesnt become gay overnight when the writer cant think of something new to do with the character
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    Comiclove5

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    #160  Edited By Comiclove5

    I love good rant.
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    Green ankh

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    #161  Edited By Green ankh

    WOW i agree 100 %with him !
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    neillius

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    #162  Edited By neillius
    @TheBug:
    In a Cry for Justice Starman Mikhail is bi.
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    Quest

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    #163  Edited By Quest

    i can not stand when a writer makes a hero who is straight for 20 or more years gay in one issue because they can not think of anything you can have gay heroes but they should always been gay

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    shadowpdf1

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    #164  Edited By shadowpdf1

    Hex, 
     
    You spent a lot of words making my point.  Nearly every post - including yours - focusses on the sexual/homosexual portion of Mr. Cooke's comments instead of looking at and examing his complete statement.  He's upset - not ranting - about the state of comic books today.  He doesn't like people getting raped in comics.  He doesn't like Batman swearing or feeding rats to little boys.  He's upset by the laziness of writers who suddenly change decades old characterizations of iconic heroes simply to excite sales.  He's upset that writers inject their own 45-year-old sensibilities into the stories to entertain 45-year-old readers in a medium that used to be exclusively for the young.   And you - like almost everyone else - leave out the part where the young lady who started this thread asked how we would make changes to the industry, if at all. 
     
    If you read my comment, you would have seen that for people to be arguing about homosexuality or Mr. Cooke's feelings toward homosexuality is actually off-topic.  And if you had read Mr. Cooke's original comments more closely, leaving out the knee jerk rantings of a super-socially sensitive blogosphere, you probably would have seen the fuller meaning of his words beyond the questionable examples he cited to illustrate his point. 
     

     
    @HexThis
    said:

    " @shadowpdf1 said:
    "

    Leave it to a social minority to blow up all out of proportion one small piece of Darwyn Cooke's comments into the only thing people talk about.  Seriously, do gays think that Batman feeding a boy a rat is a "gay thing?"  Do they think that iconic heroes swearing is directed solely at their group?  Or characters getting raped?  And do all of you socially conscious straights really think sex or sexual orientation was the sum and total of what Mr. Cooke had to say?  This is social sensitivity at its worst, where we take a small bit out of something someone says, does, or whatever, and then beat hell out of it, ignoring the central and truly important elements of the original comments.  It's disingenuous and it's designed to muddy the waters rather than openly discuss a topic.
     

    Whether or not he's homophobic is obviously a point of contention, however, his lack of eloquence and general whininess is more than apparent so I don't blame anyone for being offended by his words, they were simply clumsy and inarticulate enough to warrant that reaction and based on that quote alone it isn't ridiculous to make certain assumption. Do I believe he's homophobic? Maybe not consciously so but he doesn't make a good case otherwise in the quote everyone's discussing or else he wouldn't have had to clarify later on.   
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    nyx

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    #165  Edited By nyx

    I didn't see Darwyn's comment as offensive, he wasn't talking about lesbian character, but characters that have been around for a long time, and suddenly, two decades later, 'oh, by the way, I'm gay.'  That's like J K Rowling saying, 'Oh, FYI, Dumbledoreis gay.'  And, yes, I realize that follow up comment pretty much said the same thing.  It's so stupid that because the big companies want to appeal to all possible audiences, they take some already established characters and add a footnote in their biography that they are now suddenly homosexual.  It's recycling characters, 'We're not using Kane, how about we make her gay!' 

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    Rheged

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    #166  Edited By Rheged

    I'm not sure I agree entirely with Mr. Cooke, though I have to say I don't read DC books because the few times I open one, there seems to be someone getting graphically dismembered.  I do agree that something needs to be done to get comics back into the hands of kids and the general public or the print runs will continue to shrink.
     
    But I'm not so sure lack of creativity is entirely to blame for these things he's complaining about it.  My understanding, which could be wrong, is that when an artist or writer creates a new character for Marvel and DC, they are surrendering the rights to that character, and any financial gain from that character.  Many financially savvy creators are saving their "creativity" and new characters for creator owned projects.  Both Marvel and DC need to provide some sort of incentive for the writers and artists, to bring new characters into their comics.  And by new, I don't mean female versions of established male characters.

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    The Velvet Rabbit

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    I'd like to think Cooke's rant has an inkling of truth to it.  for example, I'm pretty sure Batwoman coming out was a publicity stunt, and I wouldn't really think of it as coming out as much as selling out.   however, characters like Renee Montoya and Pied Piper I feel were done really well, and with a degree of sensibility.   with Kate, it was just suddenly pretty much, "oh, hi - I'm a lesbian now".   anyone who knows Cooke's work knows he's no stranger to mature themes.   as for his rant, I agree that violence and sexuality don't really need to be a focal point (unless you're talking about a certain writer - people like Miller and Azzarello work best that way), but I do feel a level of grit and realism helps the whole deal.   personally, though, I am relieved that Batwoman didn't turn out just to be a pervert's fantasy a la 'Harley and Ivy'.
     
    also, there's no need to start with the 'comics are an adult medium' diatribes.   when he was talking about 'young people', I don't necessarily think he meant children, so much as he meant teenagers and young adults - and that is always a good demographic to write for, believe it or not.

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    Atom Smasher

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    #168  Edited By Atom Smasher

    This guy speaks the truth. I loved Identity Crisis but they did it and just forgot it. I mean Ralph's wife was raped and the guy remains happy and nice. Sue would be devastated that would have been Ralph hanging people with a noose he made not the Ralph we know. Batman has always been the least favorite character but as for Kate Kane who cares. They created her only because Congress got on them but I agree with the guy the story telling sucks. Spiderman twenty years no longer counts. I haven't bought a new comic book in three years and finding comic books I want to go back earlier and earlier. Story telling use to be great. Suicide Squad, Infinity Inc, Vigilante were all in the 80's and done great.

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    TheBug

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    #169  Edited By TheBug
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    CaptainMarvel4Ever

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    I totally agree with him. Just look at my screen name, I know exactly what he's talking about. So much of the innocents in comics have been lost these days.
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    Mike-EL

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    @no_name_: The actual quote is:

    "When the industry of superhero comics realigns its sights to the young people it was meant for, I'll be there with both arms and feet. How's that?"

    -Mike-EL ("The Interviewer")

    Darwyn Cooke will be missed.

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