The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.
Xavier is acting wildly out of character. All of the X Men are. it was really messed up the way that charles invaded reed’s mind. That is totally out of character for him.
Well I don't think that realisation would take so long considering their First move was to separate a kid from his family by barging in at their front door.
But then again reed also interfered with Franklin's genes
Well I don't think that realisation would take so long considering their First move was to separate a kid from his family by barging in at their front door.
But then again reed also interfered with Franklin's genes
That’s his kid though. The x-men are just plain off.
Well I don't think that realisation would take so long considering their First move was to separate a kid from his family by barging in at their front door.
But then again reed also interfered with Franklin's genes
That’s his kid though. The x-men are just plain off.
In a way, he did. Child or not, the decision no longer is his to determine at the age Franklin is at.
The X-Men were slightly ooc, but the F4 were more ooc. Their actions were antagonistic the entire mini and the X-Men were at worst reactionary.
@pyrofn: they were not reactionary. The start of that made no sense. You don’t go into someone els’s house and threaten to take their kid by force. Franklin is old enough to be ticked off by that. no kid is going to accept someone going into their house and threatening to take them by force.
@pyrofn: they were not reactionary. The start of that made no sense. You don’t go into someone els’s house and threaten to take their kid by force. Franklin is old enough to be ticked off by that. no kid is going to accept someone going into their house and threatening to take them by force.
1) “You don’t go into someone els’s house and threaten to take their kid by force”
They did not threaten to take Franklin by Force! Did you even read the comic?
They went to offer Franklin to come with them. They were at worst persistent about it, but Sue was the one who struck the first blow. Not the X-Men.
2) “Franklin is old enough to be ticked off by that. no kid is going to accept someone going into their house and threatening to take them by force.”
Franklin is old enough to understand that it was an offer. You, on the otherhand, need to learn the meaning of a threat and assertiveness.
They did not barge in anywhere to begin with. They did not threaten anybody and Franklin had every reason to want to go with them. Reed Richards was not helping Franklin gain back his powers and was deliberately keeping him away from the superheroics without Franklin’s consent. Franklin wanted to learn about that culture and Reed invaded that right.
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You can try your hardest make the X-Men seem like the bad guys, but the issues show that the X-Men were not doing anything that would point to ruining the family dynamics. That fault goes to Reed and Sue’s actions.
The entire X-men are coming off as villains... just look at what they did in Latveria...
That was not the X-Men’s fault. Doom deliberately put a mutant in a Doombot, knowing that the X-Men would attack it. Not only that, but he deliberately hid the mutants to bring suspicion and simultaneously keep the mutant Latverian’s from leaving.
The entire X-men are coming off as villains... just look at what they did in Latveria...
That was not the X-Men’s fault. Doom deliberately put a mutant in a Doombot, knowing that the X-Men would attack it. Not only that, but he deliberately hid the mutants to bring suspicion and simultaneously keep the mutant Latverian’s from leaving.
Xavier explains this clearly.
What were the X-Men doing engaging Doombots anyways? How would they feel if the sovereignty of Krakoa was being violated?
@pyrofn: the x men are acting like bad guys. You don’t show up at someone else’s house and threaten to take their kid. They are bad guys in this situation. They are also acting way out of character. In the other story line Beast is just way off. He straight up murdered a dude and almost got logan and company killed. I am not going out of my way to do anything. That’s just the way they are being written. The x men showing up at reed’s home unannounced like child protective services is just weird and came out of nowhere. The x men and the fantastic four have worked together way to many times for it to go down like that.
Imo the X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power (all traditional villians that would normally take advantage of Franklin's powers), So Sue trapping Eric in a force field was really her showing restraint given her capabilities.
People that don't read Fantastic Four comics won't know how many times villians have tried to take advantage of Franklin and his powers and Reed and Sue knows this.
I normally wouldn't approve of Reed messing with Franklin's genes against his will but he obviously knows that Xavier and Eric have ulterior motives, so I'm with him for hiding Franklin's genes, considering the fact that Franklin is an insanely powerful Reality Warper that is gullible and naive and if someone like Apocalypse managed to steal a fraction of Franklin's powers he would be invincible.
The entire X-men are coming off as villains... just look at what they did in Latveria...
That was not the X-Men’s fault. Doom deliberately put a mutant in a Doombot, knowing that the X-Men would attack it. Not only that, but he deliberately hid the mutants to bring suspicion and simultaneously keep the mutant Latverian’s from leaving.
Xavier explains this clearly.
What were the X-Men doing engaging Doombots anyways? How would they feel if the sovereignty of Krakoa was being violated?
Again, the mutants were being held against their will. That is what they always assumed when they got there. Had Doom been someone trustworthy, the X-Men probably would have complied from the beginning.
@pyrofn: the x men are acting like bad guys. You don’t show up at someone else’s house and threaten to take their kid. They are bad guys in this situation. They are also acting way out of character. In the other story line Beast is just way off. He straight up murdered a dude and almost got logan and company killed. I am not going out of my way to do anything. That’s just the way they are being written. The x men showing up at reed’s home unannounced like child protective services is just weird and came out of nowhere. The x men and the fantastic four have worked together way to many times for it to go down like that.
I already told you and showed you proof. They did NOT threaten to take Franklin. At no point did they say, “You better hand him over” or “If you don’t comply, we will have no choice but to use force”. Again, they were at worst being assertive in their approach.
X-Force storyline has nothing to do with this one.
Yes, showing up unannounced is weird. Weird does not constitute a threat.
Imo the X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power (all traditional villians that would normally take advantage of Franklin's powers), So Sue trapping Eric in a force field was really her showing restraint given her capabilities.
People that don't read Fantastic Four comics won't know how many times villians have tried to take advantage of Franklin and his powers and Reed and Sue knows this.
I normally wouldn't approve of Reed messing with Franklin's genes against his will but he obviously knows that Xavier and Eric have ulterior motives, so I'm with him for hiding Franklin's genes, considering the fact that Franklin is an insanely powerful Reality Warper that is gullible and naive and if someone like Apocalypse managed to steal a fraction of Franklin's powers he would be invincible.
1) There is literally no evidence that the world knows of anyone other than Xavier, and possibly Magneto, being in positions of power. Krakoa is incredibly secretive and cut off from the world about its activities. This point of information is not something Sue and company would get until they arrive to Krakoa, which is in issue 2.
2) This is actually a true statement.
The problem is not in the motives of Sue and Reed. The problem is in their actions.
3) Two wrongs don’t make a right. Reed wasn’t simply masking Franklin’s DNA. He was nullifying it, turning Franklin into a normal human. That is the exact reason why Xavier mind-wipes Reed.
And using Franklin is not an issue. They have plenty of firepower on Krakoa. Sue and Reed know this about the X-Men and have stated the exact reason why they don’t want him going to Krakoa.
As for the rest of the villains outside of Magneto, no one trusts them. Franklin would obviously be gold to be on-guard against certain individuals and watched when around them. The X-Men are not idiots and have the firepower to protect Franklin at every moment he is on Krakoa.
Imo the X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power (all traditional villians that would normally take advantage of Franklin's powers), So Sue trapping Eric in a force field was really her showing restraint given her capabilities.
People that don't read Fantastic Four comics won't know how many times villians have tried to take advantage of Franklin and his powers and Reed and Sue knows this.
I normally wouldn't approve of Reed messing with Franklin's genes against his will but he obviously knows that Xavier and Eric have ulterior motives, so I'm with him for hiding Franklin's genes, considering the fact that Franklin is an insanely powerful Reality Warper that is gullible and naive and if someone like Apocalypse managed to steal a fraction of Franklin's powers he would be invincible.
1) There is literally no evidence that the world knows of anyone other than Xavier, and possibly Magneto, being in positions of power. Krakoa is incredibly secretive and cut off from the world about its activities. This point of information is not something Sue and company would get until they arrive to Krakoa, which is in issue 2.
2) This is actually a true statement.
The problem is not in the motives of Sue and Reed. The problem is in their actions.
3) Two wrongs don’t make a right. Reed wasn’t simply masking Franklin’s DNA. He was nullifying it, turning Franklin into a normal human. That is the exact reason why Xavier mind-wipes Reed.
And using Franklin is not an issue. They have plenty of firepower on Krakoa. Sue and Reed know this about the X-Men and have stated the exact reason why they don’t want him going to Krakoa.
As for the rest of the villains outside of Magneto, no one trusts them. Franklin would obviously be gold to be on-guard against certain individuals and watched when around them. The X-Men are not idiots and have the firepower to protect Franklin at every moment he is on Krakoa.
1. Sue somehow knew Apocalypse was with them, so that's reason enough for them to be against the idea of Franklin going to Krakoa given what Apocalypse tried to do with Franklin during the Onslaught saga.
2. Imo Reed and Sue's actions are well justified given the situation and I honestly don't see what they could've or should've done differently.
3. Throughout the current Fantastic Four book and this series' beginning shows that Franklin has access to his powers so I think Reed only masked his DNA and didn't turn him into a human.
4. I know that Krakoa has a lot of firepower but if full powered Franklin wanted to he could easily undo what Wanda did in HoM or simply just think every human on earth out of existence and allow mutants to rule, so imagine what Apocalypse or Sinister could do with that type of power, and this is also partly why Reed and Sue can't simply just let Franklin live on Krakoa because they don't know what exactly are the X-Men's current goals and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals, Sue even says that they're not the same people they used to know.
Imo the X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power (all traditional villians that would normally take advantage of Franklin's powers), So Sue trapping Eric in a force field was really her showing restraint given her capabilities.
People that don't read Fantastic Four comics won't know how many times villians have tried to take advantage of Franklin and his powers and Reed and Sue knows this.
I normally wouldn't approve of Reed messing with Franklin's genes against his will but he obviously knows that Xavier and Eric have ulterior motives, so I'm with him for hiding Franklin's genes, considering the fact that Franklin is an insanely powerful Reality Warper that is gullible and naive and if someone like Apocalypse managed to steal a fraction of Franklin's powers he would be invincible.
1) There is literally no evidence that the world knows of anyone other than Xavier, and possibly Magneto, being in positions of power. Krakoa is incredibly secretive and cut off from the world about its activities. This point of information is not something Sue and company would get until they arrive to Krakoa, which is in issue 2.
2) This is actually a true statement.
The problem is not in the motives of Sue and Reed. The problem is in their actions.
3) Two wrongs don’t make a right. Reed wasn’t simply masking Franklin’s DNA. He was nullifying it, turning Franklin into a normal human. That is the exact reason why Xavier mind-wipes Reed.
And using Franklin is not an issue. They have plenty of firepower on Krakoa. Sue and Reed know this about the X-Men and have stated the exact reason why they don’t want him going to Krakoa.
As for the rest of the villains outside of Magneto, no one trusts them. Franklin would obviously be gold to be on-guard against certain individuals and watched when around them. The X-Men are not idiots and have the firepower to protect Franklin at every moment he is on Krakoa.
1. Sue somehow knew Apocalypse was with them, so that's reason enough for them to be against the idea of Franklin going to Krakoa given what Apocalypse tried to do with Franklin during the Onslaught saga.
2. Imo Reed and Sue's actions are well justified given the situation and I honestly don't see what they could've or should've done differently.
3. Throughout the current Fantastic Four book and this series' beginning shows that Franklin has access to his powers so I think Reed only masked his DNA and didn't turn him into a human.
4. I know that Krakoa has a lot of firepower but if full powered Franklin wanted to he could easily undo what Wanda did in HoM or simply just think every human on earth out of existence and allow mutants to rule, so imagine what Apocalypse or Sinister could do with that type of power, and this is also partly why Reed and Sue can't simply just let Franklin live on Krakoa because they don't know what exactly are the X-Men's current goals and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals, Sue even says that they're not the same people they used to know.
1) Yeah, she did. And that is a valid concern. But your reasoning was this,
”X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power”,
which was not what Sue was concerned about.
2) Not start a fight. All that accomplished was driving Franklin away.
Next, they should have contacted the X-Men from the beginning about Franklin instead of sneaking onto the island unannounced.
3) No, they clearly say Franklin’s powers are going away the more he uses them. Franklin himself states that he can feel them fading. This was the entire crux of his arc throughout the F4’s return and it did not change.
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Even if this wasn’t clearly stated multiple times, Xavier is a telepath who made the accusation that Reed did not refute at all. There is literally no reason to doubt his word on an explanation about why the smartest man in the planet who has made plans and machinery to defeat godlike beings can’t fix his son’s powers.
4) That is not a guarantee. Adult Franklin in History of the Marvel Universe has confirmed that his powers have been sporadic throughout the years and Galactus himself states that Adult Franklin can’t create things out of nothing. He needs building blocks to go off of. We don’t know exactly the extent of Franklin’s powers, so this assumption is at best speculation.
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5) True, the X-Men are not the same people they were before, but aside from giving Sabertooth immunity, the X-Men haven’t explicitly done anything wrong. Their actions thus far are no different from any normal human on the planets actions when running a country or business.
@pyrofn: you really do not get it i see. There definitely was a threat there. You don’t show up with that much fire power for a simple discussion. You also are leaving out the conversation between Xavier and magneto before they arrived. They were definitely ready to take him by force. All the x men had to do was call reed before hand and discuss it with him. You don’t show up out of the blue and ask to take someone’s child away. That’s just asinine.
Imo the X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power (all traditional villians that would normally take advantage of Franklin's powers), So Sue trapping Eric in a force field was really her showing restraint given her capabilities.
People that don't read Fantastic Four comics won't know how many times villians have tried to take advantage of Franklin and his powers and Reed and Sue knows this.
I normally wouldn't approve of Reed messing with Franklin's genes against his will but he obviously knows that Xavier and Eric have ulterior motives, so I'm with him for hiding Franklin's genes, considering the fact that Franklin is an insanely powerful Reality Warper that is gullible and naive and if someone like Apocalypse managed to steal a fraction of Franklin's powers he would be invincible.
1) There is literally no evidence that the world knows of anyone other than Xavier, and possibly Magneto, being in positions of power. Krakoa is incredibly secretive and cut off from the world about its activities. This point of information is not something Sue and company would get until they arrive to Krakoa, which is in issue 2.
2) This is actually a true statement.
The problem is not in the motives of Sue and Reed. The problem is in their actions.
3) Two wrongs don’t make a right. Reed wasn’t simply masking Franklin’s DNA. He was nullifying it, turning Franklin into a normal human. That is the exact reason why Xavier mind-wipes Reed.
And using Franklin is not an issue. They have plenty of firepower on Krakoa. Sue and Reed know this about the X-Men and have stated the exact reason why they don’t want him going to Krakoa.
As for the rest of the villains outside of Magneto, no one trusts them. Franklin would obviously be gold to be on-guard against certain individuals and watched when around them. The X-Men are not idiots and have the firepower to protect Franklin at every moment he is on Krakoa.
1. Sue somehow knew Apocalypse was with them, so that's reason enough for them to be against the idea of Franklin going to Krakoa given what Apocalypse tried to do with Franklin during the Onslaught saga.
2. Imo Reed and Sue's actions are well justified given the situation and I honestly don't see what they could've or should've done differently.
3. Throughout the current Fantastic Four book and this series' beginning shows that Franklin has access to his powers so I think Reed only masked his DNA and didn't turn him into a human.
4. I know that Krakoa has a lot of firepower but if full powered Franklin wanted to he could easily undo what Wanda did in HoM or simply just think every human on earth out of existence and allow mutants to rule, so imagine what Apocalypse or Sinister could do with that type of power, and this is also partly why Reed and Sue can't simply just let Franklin live on Krakoa because they don't know what exactly are the X-Men's current goals and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals, Sue even says that they're not the same people they used to know.
1) Yeah, she did. And that is a valid concern. But your reasoning was this,
”X-Men were completely wrong in showing up (with Magneto that has a history with Sue and Franklin) and trying to take Franklin to Krakoa, where mutants like Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, ect are in positions of power”,
which was not what Sue was concerned about.
2) Not start a fight. All that accomplished was driving Franklin away.
Next, they should have contacted the X-Men from the beginning about Franklin instead of sneaking onto the island unannounced.
3) No, they clearly say Franklin’s powers are going away the more he uses them. Franklin himself states that he can feel them fading. This was the entire crux of his arc throughout the F4’s return and it did not change.
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Even if this wasn’t clearly stated multiple times, Xavier is a telepath who made the accusation that Reed did not refute at all. There is literally no reason to doubt his word on an explanation about why the smartest man in the planet who has made plans and machinery to defeat godlike beings can’t fix his son’s powers.
4) That is not a guarantee. Adult Franklin in History of the Marvel Universe has confirmed that his powers have been sporadic throughout the years and Galactus himself states that Adult Franklin can’t create things out of nothing. He needs building blocks to go off of. We don’t know exactly the extent of Franklin’s powers, so this assumption is at best speculation.
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5) True, the X-Men are not the same people they were before, but aside from giving Sabertooth immunity, the X-Men haven’t explicitly done anything wrong. Their actions thus far are no different from any normal human on the planets actions when running a country or business.
2. Again, Franklin is very naive and gullible and doesn't have half the experience that Sue and Reed does and he is frankly not very smart and a poor judge of character, I mean he easily trusted Doom after everything Doom has done.
Xavier should just have shown up with Kitty and maybe Storm and not with a whole group of mutants that are still villians to the FF (Magneto and Pyro), The X-Men clearly came off as very aggressive.
They did contact Cyclops but he made it clear he didn't value Valeria's life and that she wasn't welcome on Krakoa so obviously the FF needed to make sure the X-Men didn't know where Franklin and Valeria was and they did.
3. There is absolutely no proof that Reed can solve Franklin's power-loss but chooses not to, Reed is only as smart as the plot wants him to be, why hasn't he been able to remove Thing's powers, he was also unable to give Johnny his powers back in the 2015 run of FF. The point being Reed sometimes can't do simple stuff because the plot requires it.
4. Still the things Franklin has done are insane, I mean he is the only being alongside Galactus that survived the 616 universe ending and is repeatedly said to be equal to the Celestials and could fight Celestials in groups so there's no doubt that villians like Apocalypse and Sinister could accomplish some sinister stuff with Franklin's type of power.
5. Look, I can make a list of things that the X-Men are currently doing that they the FF, Avengers wouldn't normally do but it's really unclear what the FF knows exactly about Krakoa.
A good example of why Reed and Sue can't just give Franklin the type of freedom any other child deserves is, Franklin once dreamt up a Negative Zone invasion on New York City and in the process killed a lot of people, afterwards Sue, Reed, Ben and Johnny were basically blamed and sued an ended up loosing their home, belongings and all their children (the Future Foundation), so let's say a telepath with evil intentions gets the chance to mess with Franklin's head and causes some chaos on earth, who's fault will it be? Who will get blamed? The FF will get blamed because Franklin is after all Reed and Sue's child and this is just one of the many things that can happen.
The entire X-men are coming off as villains... just look at what they did in Latveria...
That was not the X-Men’s fault. Doom deliberately put a mutant in a Doombot, knowing that the X-Men would attack it. Not only that, but he deliberately hid the mutants to bring suspicion and simultaneously keep the mutant Latverian’s from leaving.
For me this all comes down to one very simple question on who is right or wrong in this comic.
Why are the X-Men trying to convince Franklin, who is a minor, to leave his loving family?
It’s not a heroic move in any way, shape or form. Simply put, the X-Men aren’t the good guys any more.
Because his powers are failing and their worried it could be something that effects other mutants as well? They say as much in the first issue.
I mean come on Ashe, even ignoring that there's nothing evil about offering someone the chance to experience Krakoa. Nobody said anything about kidnapping him or never being allowed to return....Sue and the FF just didn't want him to even consider going to see the place where every other mutant on the planet is welcome to visit and call home.
The FF's reasoning is that they don't trust Krakoa...which is sloppily written, but the worst thing the X-Men did the entire story was when Kitty was going to let Franklin go through the portal. Meanwhile the "heroic" FF attacked Magneto, wouldn't let them approach their house and showed disgust when discussing the Krakoa and the X-Men even when they weren't around.....all of this before deciding to invade a country and punch one of it's leaders in the face after confirming that he DIDNT steal their kid.
@koays: Franklin is a minor. A minor. Its not even legal for him to make that sort of decision. And since when is race more important than family? According to the X-Men, it is. Otherwise they wouldn't have commented about Val not being allowed on Krakoa since she's human.
Another thing.
Can you honestly say that the X-Men at this point won't do everything in their power to convince him to stay? Like oh I don't know, manipulating his mind, his emotions, playing up to his wants and needs. Offering him anything and everything to stick around. With the obviously cultish behavior that the mutants have been exhibiting for a while now, can you really sit there and type with a straight face that you think they aren't primarily after his potential power but are more concerned with his well being? Didn't Xavier himself say that the Omega Mutants were Krakoa's biggest treasure? Franklin's power loss is just a convenient excuse to lure him away from his family, an opportunity they shamelessly exploited. If they cared about Franklin, why not bring their wonderful potential cure for his power loss to where he lived with his family? Why did he have to go to Krakoa for it? hmmm?
Also I don't fault them for going after Magneto after all the crap he has pulled over the years. I adore Mags, but I also know that he isn't a nice person. Are you saying they should just trust him and the other Krakoa leaders, especially after Magneto declared mutants were humanity's new Gods? How in the world can you interpret Magneto's comments to be anything but villainous? Show me one time, just once, where a heroic type told someone else that they were their new deity while using it in the context Magneto was and it was meant as a positive thing. I'll wait. In fact, I'll go so far as to admit I was completely wrong about this and never bring it up again.
But until then I firmly stand behind my statement that the X-Men aren't the good guys anymore.
Doesn't Forge know how to remove mutant powers? Isn't it odd how Xavier hasn't forcibly gone into his head and removed that knowledge. Was it because Reed has clearly abused his intellect to harm mutants the world over time and time again or for some other reason?
I agree about the prejudice, but I think you're sadly missing where it's coming from.
@koays: Franklin is a minor. A minor. Its not even legal for him to make that sort of decision. And since when is race more important than family? According to the X-Men, it is. Otherwise they wouldn't have commented about Val not being allowed on Krakoa since she's human.
Another thing.
Can you honestly say that the X-Men at this point won't do everything in their power to convince him to stay? Like oh I don't know, manipulating his mind, his emotions, playing up to his wants and needs. Offering him anything and everything to stick around. With the obviously cultish behavior that the mutants have been exhibiting for a while now, can you really sit there and type with a straight face that you think they aren't primarily after his potential power but are more concerned with his well being? Didn't Xavier himself say that the Omega Mutants were Krakoa's biggest treasure? Franklin's power loss is just a convenient excuse to lure him away from his family, an opportunity they shamelessly exploited. If they cared about Franklin, why not bring their wonderful potential cure for his power loss to where he lived with his family? Why did he have to go to Krakoa for it? hmmm?
Also I don't fault them for going after Magneto after all the crap he has pulled over the years. I adore Mags, but I also know that he isn't a nice person. Are you saying they should just trust him and the other Krakoa leaders, especially after Magneto declared mutants were humanity's new Gods? How in the world can you interpret Magneto's comments to be anything but villainous? Show me one time, just once, where a heroic type told someone else that they were their new deity while using it in the context Magneto was and it was meant as a positive thing. I'll wait. In fact, I'll go so far as to admit I was completely wrong about this and never bring it up again.
But until then I firmly stand behind my statement that the X-Men aren't the good guys anymore.
Doesn't Forge know how to remove mutant powers? Isn't it odd how Xavier hasn't forcibly gone into his head and removed that knowledge. Was it because Reed has clearly abused his intellect to harm mutants the world over time and time again or for some other reason?
I agree about the prejudice, but I think you're sadly missing where it's coming from.
@ashetdust 1- See that's the thing. For one, they weren't kidnapping Franklin. They came to talk to the FF about him coming to Krakoa.
It wasn't race over family.... Their starting a place for mutants that is forming it's own culture, it's own rules and it's own society for all of it's people and their offering a chance for him to see that.
It's kinda silly for them to say "Well Franklin's parent's love him so we don't need to invite him see Krakoa"
The X-Men didn't comment on Val not being allowed on Krakoa... Sue basically challenged them to let Val go to a place that is designed to be a safe haven for mutants....for no other reason then for them to state that it is a place just for mutants.
2- Can you honestly say that the X-Men at this point won't do everything in their power to convince him to stay? Like oh I don't know, manipulating his mind, his emotions, playing up to his wants and needs. Offering him anything and everything to stick around. With the obviously cultish behavior that the mutants have been exhibiting for a while now, can you really sit there and type with a straight face that you think they aren't primarily after his potential power but are more concerned with his well being?
No offense, but alot of this is coming from YOU and not the narrative.
Who on Krakoa's mind is being manipulated?
Who's emotions?
Who's wants and needs?
Mystique is flat out refusing to do things because they won't give her what she wants. In fact her entire plot of wanting to bring Destiny back couldve ended before it even got started if Xavier was just removing memories from everyone.
I mean even what your saying is cultish behavior is things they are actively challenging in the narrative.
I'm not saying that your point is unfounded...but it's made with alot of prejudgments about Xavier's goals and endgames being evil when we haven't even heard what they are yet.
Your basically saying "He wants to protect Omega-Level mutants! He's evil! See!"
Even looking at the conversation they had with Reed and Sue, they basically said "we're changing things for mutants" and Reed complained about them buying people off to get a safe place for their people.
Everyone else on Krakoa comes and goes as they please.....idk why you think it would be different for Franklin and based on what.
3- Your saying it's ok for Benn Grimm to punch Magneto because Magneto thinks he's the next stage in humanity?
Again this is the same family who routinely teams up with Dr. Doom..... DOOM.
The guy who not only is a evil dictator, but is the FIRST NAME to show up if you google "comicbook evil dictator"
He took over the entire multiverse and stole their family...
And yet he's their daughter's godfather, she spent a large portion of her beginnings studying with him and they even let him experiment on their god powered son....(which LOL he used to steal some of his power).
But they invade a new country and punch Magneto in the face after he'd already told them he wasn't going to fight sue before....
Yea it doesn't matter what Mags calls himself here.... he didn't do anything wrong and certainly not on Doom's level...
4- If you read Marauders you'd see that Forge went out of his way to erase all of his power draining tech and the one person who had some access to it used it to build russia a weapon that does just that....
It's what lead to Colossus' death, nearly got Storm killed and is the reason that Kitty is dead after this crossover.... so yea they are pretty consistent in trying to stop people from having ways to depower mutants.
5- I think you just set in your mind that the X-Men weren't good guys and then over compensated by assuming that everything they are doing now is evil.
All they've done as far as the world is concerned is ask for their own country where they're left alone and offered medication and resources in exchange for that.... this is all the FF know and they decided that they couldn't be trusted because of it.
Meanwhile Reed Richards sits on teleportation devices and cosmic exploration technology that he doesn't share with the rest of the world because? Idk....evil?
Again it seem like they gave you an inch to distrust Xavier and you went the whole mile and declared the X-Men evil for attempting to offer a place for mutant child...because they've NEVER done that before.
The X-Men fell for Doom's plot, hook, line and sinker.
Latverians are pretty much always shown as fearful, but also intensely loyal. They just demanded a foreign army occupy their soil.
It is assumed that the Latverian mutants are being forced into the Doom Armors, but none of those mutants ever actually said so. Granted, Doom probably knew one would die, or at least be maimed, but they may have had an uncontrollable power and were in the armor for the same reason Kitty was once in a containment bubble in Latveria.
Then at the end, Magneto and Prof X go to Reed's lab, and do exactly what Prof X told him he would do...
In Reed's lab... surrounded by Reed's toys...
To take away knowledge of control collars, which are apparently available on the internet in Marvel U based on how often they pop up. Sure, his was tailored and smaller scale...
I have a feeling that Reed just got a good reading on the psychic ability and had a counter waiting.
The X-Men fell for Doom's plot, hook, line and sinker.
Latverians are pretty much always shown as fearful, but also intensely loyal. They just demanded a foreign army occupy their soil.
It is assumed that the Latverian mutants are being forced into the Doom Armors, but none of those mutants ever actually said so. Granted, Doom probably knew one would die, or at least be maimed, but they may have had an uncontrollable power and were in the armor for the same reason Kitty was once in a containment bubble in Latveria.
Then at the end, Magneto and Prof X go to Reed's lab, and do exactly what Prof X told him he would do...
In Reed's lab... surrounded by Reed's toys...
To take away knowledge of control collars, which are apparently available on the internet in Marvel U based on how often they pop up. Sure, his was tailored and smaller scale...
I have a feeling that Reed just got a good reading on the psychic ability and had a counter waiting.
1) Yes, they did. Doom is an incredibly intelligent and cunning individual who the X-Men don’t fight often enough. I am not surprised that they fell for it.
2) That is an interesting theory about the Latverian mutants, but you can also argue the exact opposite. True, they never said they were being forced into the armor, but they didn’t argue against the point either. Nor did they protest to leaving for Krakoa. Doom for obvious reasons is not trustworthy enough to be given the benefit of the doubt, so it is not likely the Latverians has any say in what they wanted against Doom’s word to begin with, which still constitutes as forcing them into the armor.
3) Actually, Xavier didn’t mindwipe Reed completely. Xavier let Reed remember what Xavier did to him, but he erased the memory of how to build his device. By Xavier’s own admission, he would mindwiped the encounter completely from Reed’s brain back then.
@pyrofn: Oh, I know. And he probably too steps to make sure Reed couldn't undo what he did any more than build the next thing.
I'm saying that 'device to shut off powers' is.. common tech in MU. And Reed's tech is not common. Remember during the Inversion when Iron Man went evil and a backup of his original personality came online to try to fix it?
I think, at some point, it'll come out that Reed was ready for the attack and had a counter ready. And possibly one that will unravel MutOpia.
@pyrofn: Oh, I know. And he probably too steps to make sure Reed couldn't undo what he did any more than build the next thing.
I'm saying that 'device to shut off powers' is.. common tech in MU. And Reed's tech is not common. Remember during the Inversion when Iron Man went evil and a backup of his original personality came online to try to fix it?
I think, at some point, it'll come out that Reed was ready for the attack and had a counter ready. And possibly one that will unravel MutOpia.
That fact that it’s common tech doesn’t exactly give Reed permission to use said tech. In fact, the X-Men work to fight against that kind of technology. The way it’s always used for malicious purposes is solely why they won’t allow for its use and would in fact go after the people who make use of the tech.
Reed for all intent and purpose should have raised above that. Instead, he let his fear dictate his actions. Even if he didn’t intentionally create a mutant power dampener on purpose, the fact that he still allowed it rather than fix the problem shows entirely how much he actually respects mutant powers. In a day and age where the X-Men are looking into a dangerous way to give mutants back their powers because of the Scarlet Witches spell, you can understand that they would be very bitterly sensitive to this kind of technology being used by a human on a mutant.
@one_truephoenix: which is kinda why alot of the back and fourth is dismissable here because it's basically people trying to use a forgettable mini to support a theory about something that hasn't been revealed yet....meanwhile ignoring major things in HoX/PoX that could explain them
Actually, Vulcan's lead in into Empyre pretty much solidifies my thought that this island is only possible because of some significant psychic manipulation. It pretty much flat out says it's the only reason Vulcan isn't a supervillain now.
Actually, Vulcan's lead in into Empyre pretty much solidifies my thought that this island is only possible because of some significant psychic manipulation. It pretty much flat out says it's the only reason Vulcan isn't a supervillain now.
isn't vulcan the one who screwed everything up and jean had to save him inside the white hote room???
This discussion makes me want to read it just to be aware, at the same time the first issue and half of the second one (that's where I stopped reading) were so godawful, I decided to spare my brain.
Decisions, decisions.
But I do see a trend of certain moralists never ever accepting mutant's perspective. The sentiment was there since AvX.
Actually, Vulcan's lead in into Empyre pretty much solidifies my thought that this island is only possible because of some significant psychic manipulation. It pretty much flat out says it's the only reason Vulcan isn't a supervillain now.
isn't vulcan the one who screwed everything up and jean had to save him inside the white hote room???
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