The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.
it was ok........i think jott has a lot of support cause .......seems like something always tries to tear them apart like villains, romantic interests, death(or coming back from the dead)
even scott said hes relationship with jean it was just one adventure after another.......they didnt have time for themselves
it was ok........i think jott has a lot of support cause .......seems like something always tries to tear them apart like villains, romantic interests, death(or coming back from the dead)
even scott said hes relationship with jean it was just one adventure after another.......they didnt have time for themselves
@mrnihal: @pyrofn my joke of the day.........scott has a thing for "psychics" like jean or emma or maddie(does she count?later she did have jean's tp and tk) or psylocke(flirted but still)
scott next psychic hook-up is BLINDFOLD we already know she will be in uncanny LOL (is she 18 yet? she must be warned )
@koays: @ursaber: I’d say three bombed test screenings is worrying. Why are they bombing so hard? MCU bias? Not really an excuse considering Wonder Woman, Deadpool, and Logan performed well. They weren’t very descriptive as to what was wrong to begin with. All they said was that everyone was laughing at a serious scene. Venom had that same reaction and it performed very well, despite critics.
I really hope this is just a Venom situation because this is my favorite comic storyline they are adapting.
@pyrofn: but jean does look a little "carefree" with bishop.........and doesnt look like any baggage ....well until they go back to 616 then all hell will break loose(bishop still looks like shaft LOL)
i still stand by Jean should be with Cyclops or at worse Wolverine. XD XD XP
@pyrofn: Eh....I mean I just dont see how it could be THAT bad.. I mean dont get me wrong they did this storyline WAY too early considering they'd just introduced then character, but how that would reflect to a bunch of test audiences is kinda head scratching.
@pyrofn: Eh....I mean I just dont see how it could be THAT bad.. I mean dont get me wrong they did this storyline WAY too early considering they'd just introduced then character, but how that would reflect to a bunch of test audiences is kinda head scratching.
Kinberg, who has never directed a movie before, is directing it, Kinberg also wrote this alone where previous movies he had help or other people to assist him the story or screenplay, it has contractually obligated actors playing characters that don't really need to be in this film (Fassbender's Mags and Lawrence's Mystique), it has Sophie Turner in the lead who isn't a very good actress and doesn't have much experience outside of Game of Thrones, it seems like it's going to go the route of Apocalypse and worry more about catering to comic nerds than just telling an original story, many characters were just introduced in the previous film and haven't had a lot of room to breathe etc.
So, it's not hard to imagine this film turning out really bad.
The Dark Phoenix is such a weird story to try to adapt as well. It was a story that was the apotheosis of Byrne and Claremont's run and started with them encountering the Hellfire Club and escalated to them battling an alien super force on the moon. Whenever they try to adapt it in anything it always gets extremely watered down or feels like it's missing something. Even when the cartoons try to do they always seem to downplay the Hellfire Club or miss all the drama, doubt and self sacrifice the X-Men had before they fought the Imperial Guard. I don't why they bother.
@cattlebattle: Yea see the Dark/Phoenix Saga balancing and shuffling 3 villains with Phoenix being the internal, Hellfire being the moral and the shiar being the unknown authority.... it brings this sort of scale to Jean Grey for her to be at the center of all of this.
We could dissect it a million ways but the only way to build the same type of looming threat and scale is to basically imitate the original formula to a degree that no one is willing to commit to across 2-3 movies.
You see I completely agree with the characters not getting room to breathe and with Sophie Turner's.....um difficulties with acting. The ONE thing that was definitely an upside at the end of Apocalypse was that it looked like we were going to get more stories to learn about this team of popular X-Men that was introduced but ultimately irrelevant to the plot of Apocalypse. Now though were skipping from the start of their story to what is their most defining emotional moment as a team without doing the leg work to get us invested.
But even with that as a storytelling critique. It's just hard to see an X-Men movie getting such bad reviews in test screenings as assurance of their poor quality. Since we've had bad movies like Last Stand, Origins and Apocalypse and I could see the result of watching most of those being...MEH from unbiased critiques instead of the flat out hate that seems to be the statements being put out.
As far as the director...idk. being real the X-Men movies have never really had great moments of direction. Aside from Quicksilver scenes , Magneto and Xavier in the plane, and 2 specific Magneto and Xavier scenes from the original 3...its not really hard to make these movies unless you really are just bad at it. So basically it's like how bad could it be? I mean it's been compared to F4, but i just cant figure out how an X-Men movie 5 films in could be so bad
@koays: I wouldn't say there is hate being aimed at the movie from the critics. They just seem to think it's not very good. X-Men Origins Wolverine also had very bad reviews before it came out I remember, which was deserved, as that movie was really bad. I honestly didn't think Apocalypse was all that bad, it was just like it seemed to want to be a Marvel movie while still being a Singer style X-Men film.....trying to have its cake and eat it too I guess. I also don't really like to listen to critics as A. I think giving your opinion about something is not a real job and B. Everyone has different tastes in things. However, I can still imagine how this movie will be bad.
A director has a lot more duties in film making than just making "great moments" in a film, lol.
The X-Men is a franchise that's just hard to adapt. It has too many popular characters, all of it's major stories require a lot of backstory, much of the franchise has delved into fantasy and hard sci fi which turns off casual fans raised on the cartoons and movies, much of it is confusing. Movies are too short, a television show would require too large of a budget, a cartoon in the vain of what YOung Justice is doing now would be ideal, but, the X-Men would still have too much going on and has to rely on other spin offs and sub series to make the world feel more than just some story about super heroes. The franchise has always been unique in that way that it almost feels like it's tailored specifically for comics. But, capitalism gonna capitalism and if there is money to be made.....we get movies.
It's going to be a doozy when X-Men show up in the MCU. Feige or whatever that guy's name is explicitly stated that the X-Men films are going to feature lesser known characters, which could mean a number of things, and the greater worry is that politics have gone into his plans as well as he promised that the future of the MCU would be more "diverse", which just really means less white people. So, I imagine at that point instead of getting characters like Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean and Kitty being around, we will get any character that's brown or asian with other non whites just for sake of having them so they can look more like The Planeteers than the actual X-Men and play parts in shit story lines like House of M and AvX for no other reason than people have heard of those and the Avengers play into them...can't wait.
@cattlebattle: 1) “Kinberg, who has never directed a movie before, is directing it, Kinberg also wrote this alone where previous movies he had help or other people to assist him the story or screenplay”
Yeah, they really rushed into the development of this movie. I can understand why Fox did (seeing Marvel’s success, they had to play catch up like DCEU and in the end failed anyways since Disney bought the piece that held the rights to the X-Men), but hiring an experienced director or giving Kimberg a couple of movies before diving into this storyline would’ve been wiser. I like what I’ve been hearing of the storyline so far and he does seem to be taking steps to not copy the mistakes of The Last Stand, but since how well a movie does depends on audience reaction in an era where if it’s not the MCU, then it won’t be good (unless you’re Deadpool) makes me real nervous.
2) “it has Sophie Turner in the lead who isn't a very good actress and doesn't have much experience outside of Game of Thrones”
I don’t watch Game of Throne, so I can’t give a full evaluation on Sophie’s acting aside from Apocalypse, in which I thought she did well. Accent aside, she played her role very well, being scared and unsure of herself despite having all the power in the world to turn the tide of the battles. Even as I look at the trailers for Dark Phoenix, I can get a sense of turmoil coming from her character and in the Dark Phoenix bits, I can clearly see she a possessed individual, rather than just an alternate personality or just an angry op mutant.
3) “it seems like it's going to go the route of Apocalypse and worry more about catering to comic nerds than just telling an original story, many characters were just introduced in the previous film and haven't had a lot of room to breathe etc.”
That is true, yet at the same time, a big problem with the Last Stand was that it strayed from the Dark Phoenix so much. (With the other being that they backseated it for the Cure story arc) If I were Kimberg writing this story, I’d probably do what he’s doing under the circumstances I’d be put under. (With exception of changing the costumes, but that is aesthetics and not story related with exception of Phoenix herself) It’s a bad position that he volunteered for, but I honestly don’t know how any other director would handle this.
4) “So, it’s not hard to imagine this film turning out really bad.”
Sad to say, I agree. And with this being adapted a second time, whether it goes wrong or turns out better than anticipated, I’m positive that Feige will not touch this storyline. So, this being what I’ll be getting probably for my lifetime, I’m real hopeful with underlying fear for this movie.
5) “The Dark Phoenix is such a weird story to try to adapt as well.”
Believe me, had the MCU not just pulled off an outer space story going through all different locations, including Earth, in a single movie, I would not put so much faith in Fox, which isn’t a lot, but enough because it is involving my favorite character in media.
6) “ I don't know why they bother.”
Avoiding the typical response on popularity and money, I would say it would be to play catch up to the MCU. Unfortunately for them, they are late to the party, ignoring what the MCU has accomplished until they became a Juggernaut. Once they did, it was too late. DCEU fell in the same trap. Because of this, both studios were jumping the gun, trying to say, “hey we can do this too!” Without knowing what the heck it was that got the MCU to the point they are at to earn the positive response.
7) “it was just like it seemed to want to be a Marvel movie while still being a Singer style X-Men film.”
Huh, I haven’t thought of it like that, but it’s not at all shocking.
8) “I also don't really like to listen to critics as A. I think giving your opinion about something is not a real job and B. Everyone has different tastes in things”
Hah! Too true.
9) “the X-Men films are going to feature lesser known characters, which could mean a number of things, and the greater worry is that politics have gone into his plans as well as he promised that the future of the MCU would be more "diverse", which just really means less white people”
Given who the X-Men are, I don’t The the minority aspect will bother me unless it’s so blatantly in your face to an annoying degree, which has actually gone well for the MCU when considering Black Panther.
That said, I one lesser known characters doesn’t mean cutting fan favorites. I’m all for adding in the obscures, but it wouldn’t feel like an X-Men movie if we didn’t get well-knowns.
10) “So, I imagine at that point instead of getting characters like Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean and Kitty being around, we will get any character that's brown or asian with other non whites just for sake of having them so they can look more like The Planeteers than the actual X-Men and play parts in shit story lines like House of M and AvX for no other reason than people have heard of those and the Avengers play into them...can't wait.”
Now I’m desperate for Dark Phoenix to do well. A smart move would be to keep the familiar with the new, but there is always a chance that they could flub this. It’s surprising that MCU’s track record has been consistent throughout though, so I think everyone is eating for that show to drop where Marvel trips over their success.
@cattlebattle: Idk, it's the specific comparisons I'm seeing that make me think their exaggerating for the sake of attention. Like comparing anything to Fant4stic is pretty harsh and draws all types of imagery. But then it's the vague language of the criticism. "Worst superhero movie" "a complete disaster" like what movie have you seen that you'd describe watching it as a complete disaster? It's such a weird statement, and instead of being backed by analysis its backed by saying "look at the amount of reshoots their doing." I mean I completely agree with the idea that a critic can't tell me what to like, but at the very least explain their own opinion with a piece of evidence or something to look.
Lol I'm not saying a director just has to make one thing work to make it good. I'm just saying that overall the X-Men films aren't stylistic masterpieces filled with nuances. It would be harder to mess it up then it would be to phone it in at this point.
Honestly a Young Justice style show would be great. But sort of like the problem they have in their show, there feels like SO much of the X-Men's universe would be missing. Like you say, it is almost tailor made for comics, because if you look at what the X-Men are and how complex the franchise is...And even how ridiculously broad the term X-book or X-title is, its almost impossible to really nail down how you could do a faithful or even adequate representation of the material. That said taking a moment to map out an adaptation of a complex story and saying that this is what were building our movie verse on shouldnt be as impossible as they make it.
Honestly I don't even wanna think about the MCU merger. I've said for years that the absolute LEAST interesting thing about the X-Men to me is the connection to the rest of Marvel. The idea that they could even pretend that using "less known characters" will make up for the fact that overall the MCU has done a shit job at establishing their world and its pieces as interesting outside of their heroes or to combat the fact that Singer's universe as weak as it is with continuity has given us more of an interesting original take on the premise and characters then a MCU attempt at transferring the character traits they percieve as being character accurate could ever be. I mean every Avenger was a blank slate before the movies...in many ways they already are. The only reason they'd use characters that haven't been seen repeatedly in other media is because adapting Moonstar, Syryn and Armor would give them pretty much blank slates to work with.
@koays:, I don't know, I could describe several movies I have seen as a complete disaster. Honestly, they have to be sort of discreet in their reviews and generalize over all or be at risk of spoiling too much of the film. They can't just say "In the scene where _______ talks to ______ about ______ and then _____happens and fights______". So they have to talk about the movie in coded sort of language and cliches.
Singer's films were stylistic though. If they would have just given the X-Men material to anyone in the 90s (the first film started production in the 90s) you could have wound with something akin to Batman & Robin. It was Singer and his crew who decided to mute everything and give the team black uniforms and give everything a more realistic setting and tone. There is actual vision and film making skill required for that. They didn't just hand SInger a camera and say "here, point this at things and people."
Yeah, when it comes to animation the problem is always that the X-Men roster would no doubt grow and branch out like it always does prompting other teams to have their own series, whether it be a student group like the New Mutants or something like X-Factor. In animation though an additional series would require a lot of resources like writers, animators, voice actors etc whereas in the comic industry, you can just have the same writer with a couple of artists and that's it. That's what I usually mean when I talk about how the X-Men work best as a comic. Anything else they try to get thrown into just lacks resources, comics have very limited restraints. All you really need is a writer, artists, and someone to produce it.
I agree. It often seems like the MCU has Spider-Man for the sake of having Spider-Man. The movie they did didn't even really feel like Spider-Man either. There was no Daily Bugle, no scenes where he does any amazing web slinging, arbitrary examples of how his super hero life interferes with his regular life. I believe the reason for it was because the other twenty SPider-Man films that came out over the past decades did these things already and Marvel wants to try something "different", but, in doing so, the character feels completely alien. I am assuming the same thing will be in store for the X-Men considering their movie franchise over the past decades.
@pyrofn: Eh....I mean I just dont see how it could be THAT bad.. I mean dont get me wrong they did this storyline WAY too early considering they'd just introduced then character, but how that would reflect to a bunch of test audiences is kinda head scratching.
Kinberg, who has never directed a movie before, is directing it, Kinberg also wrote this alone where previous movies he had help or other people to assist him the story or screenplay, it has contractually obligated actors playing characters that don't really need to be in this film (Fassbender's Mags and Lawrence's Mystique), it has Sophie Turner in the lead who isn't a very good actress and doesn't have much experience outside of Game of Thrones, it seems like it's going to go the route of Apocalypse and worry more about catering to comic nerds than just telling an original story, many characters were just introduced in the previous film and haven't had a lot of room to breathe etc.
So, it's not hard to imagine this film turning out really bad.
The Dark Phoenix is such a weird story to try to adapt as well. It was a story that was the apotheosis of Byrne and Claremont's run and started with them encountering the Hellfire Club and escalated to them battling an alien super force on the moon. Whenever they try to adapt it in anything it always gets extremely watered down or feels like it's missing something. Even when the cartoons try to do they always seem to downplay the Hellfire Club or miss all the drama, doubt and self sacrifice the X-Men had before they fought the Imperial Guard. I don't why they bother.
the real question is will hugh jackman be in it?
he was in x-men Apocalypse, even if it was for a short stint
@koays:, I don't know, I could describe several movies I have seen as a complete disaster. Honestly, they have to be sort of discreet in their reviews and generalize over all or be at risk of spoiling too much of the film. They can't just say "In the scene where _______ talks to ______ about ______ and then _____happens and fights______". So they have to talk about the movie in coded sort of language and cliches.
Singer's films were stylistic though. If they would have just given the X-Men material to anyone in the 90s (the first film started production in the 90s) you could have wound with something akin to Batman & Robin. It was Singer and his crew who decided to mute everything and give the team black uniforms and give everything a more realistic setting and tone. There is actual vision and film making skill required for that. They didn't just hand SInger a camera and say "here, point this at things and people."
Yeah, when it comes to animation the problem is always that the X-Men roster would no doubt grow and branch out like it always does prompting other teams to have their own series, whether it be a student group like the New Mutants or something like X-Factor. In animation though an additional series would require a lot of resources like writers, animators, voice actors etc whereas in the comic industry, you can just have the same writer with a couple of artists and that's it. That's what I usually mean when I talk about how the X-Men work best as a comic. Anything else they try to get thrown into just lacks resources, comics have very limited restraints. All you really need is a writer, artists, and someone to produce it.
I agree. It often seems like the MCU has Spider-Man for the sake of having Spider-Man. The movie they did didn't even really feel like Spider-Man either. There was no Daily Bugle, no scenes where he does any amazing web slinging, arbitrary examples of how his super hero life interferes with his regular life. I believe the reason for it was because the other twenty SPider-Man films that came out over the past decades did these things already and Marvel wants to try something "different", but, in doing so, the character feels completely alien. I am assuming the same thing will be in store for the X-Men considering their movie franchise over the past decades.
Because we're all not tired of Magneto and Charles fighting and making up with Mystique leading the charge. Look I enjoy the 90's X-Men, but at this point, Marvel can't redo what Fox did with their films at least not right away.
@ashetdust: @koays: @pyrofn: anyone remember in the x-men tas cartoon......jean and scott tried to get married 3 times (LOL).......once the priest was Morph(back from the dead-ish) in disguise LOL
jean's dress from the first attempt(purple and white)
(white and peach theme) 2nd time (now im not sure if it was 2 or 3 times lol)
Well, I never thought I'd see the day when out of all the things you could discuss about X-Men, Jean Grey's wedding dress from a cartoon would be a topic.
@hopesummersforthefuture: Honestly, I don’t remember the three attempts, just bit and pieces about how useless Jean was in most situations.
I mean once she actually managed to trip on flat ground. Flat. Ground.
I actually liked X-Men Evolution much better. But I know I’m the minority in that.
Can never really win with X-Men cartoons.
On one hand you have a show where the X-Men all act like parodies of themselves stumbling through complicated story lines adapted from their comics, and on the other hand you had a cartoon that first introduces Wolverine, a character known for stabbing, smoking cigars, and healing from blood spattered wounds, with him making a very pronounced effort to recycle. Because if there is anything that makes me think of Wolverine it's the rage of seeing someone throw plastic in the trash.
@ashetdust: We're in the minority together. I liked how it tried to be its own thing rather than religiously following comic continuity. Honestly evolution is my favorite of the X-Men cartoons, and I think its the one that best holds up....going back and watching TAS you realize how much of its love is probably nostalgia.
Wolverine and the X-Men I liked some parts of...but I really couldn't get past just how accurate the title really was. Series might as well have been called Wolverine and his side-kicks
@ashetdust: @pyrofn@jhazzroucher read from zac thompson twitter that x-fans will be shocked when they see "marvelous x-men #4 cover" ........im very worried :/ 0.O
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