--magneto escapes through the time portal(also kills some unknown mutant kids who "under order" was to kill him)

--polaris tries to get through to alex but doesnt.....

this was more and less like the last issue.........very slow paced and characters repeating themselves "mothervine is going to help mutants" "some people need to be sacrificed blah blah blah"

then the post credits scene for exterminate O5 teen beast grown up dies

Its an alternate future. No one ever survives in those.

But yeah, this issue was almost a carbon copy of the previous issue.

Eh......didn't like it at all, besides the various problem with plot and copy/paste'ing which were already mentioned, i also had problems with Magneto and Polaris who were playing dumb, half of the sh** they walked through could have been skipped if they used their damn FORCE-FIELDS to withstand attacks, instead of using their glass canon human durability, Mags could have simply walked like nothing just put that bubble forcefield and be done with it instead of wasting his power for energy blasts, same with Polaris put that forcefield and she wouldn't have been captured by Havok, guess we can equate this to jobbing for the sake of plot devlelopment.

But anyways this series has too many problems as a whole in general. Well at least i like Daken using Samurai weapons for his battle style, that's cool.

IKR!!!! what the heck.........but i mostly bought this one for the post credit scene for exterminate.......

and the O5 without jean just got danger back online and is headed back to earth(from space) and they still think jeen is dead LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Scans about Bloodstorm please. :)

i dont see any........maybe @pyrofn has them

@jhazzroucher: What are you looking for per se. Do you need a specific moment? So you just want a picture in full view?

Eh, this comic was by the numbers. Decent action, dialogue.

Still retreads the weird subplots and maintains the strange moral quandaries. I will say that Emma being against mind control is slightly off kilter, but at least there's nuance there in that mutants just getting new powers is when they're at their most vulnerable.

Magneto being able to escape is him obviously going to make a comeback in the past.

Havok sacrificing mutants seems to be an obvious line drop that pushes Emma over the edge whilst making Alex's motivations all over the place.

The X-Men blue team getting steam rolled in a few pages when Magneto lasted longer is really mystifying.

Bloodstorm doing mind control when that's clearly reprehensible to the 'heroes' just makes me sigh.

Nonetheless, Mothervine is coming to Sydney Australia, so I hope my new mutant powers are cool.

Doesn't sound interesting at all. Thought Bunn was better than this

Bunn is really bad with flashy superpowered battles. He was pretty good with depowered Magneto though.

He needs a lower profile book.

Agreed, this is also more backed up by power inconsistencies, in one issue we have Polaris using her force-field and even breaking people's bones (no metal on them) with ease, in another we have what we have.

Regarding Magneto, it could be chalked up to the notion, that current Magneto still suffers from Post-AVX depowerement, sure he sorta became a bit better, but i think that notion is still intact, plus Mags was sorta wounded pre this issue, but i think he still had enough damn power to use force-fields, if he could summon blasts, sure as hell he could create a force-field.

Writing beings with immense power is not his shtick so to speak i agree on that as well, a lower profile book could work out with him, i can see something along those lines overall.

@the_wotan:

I'd agree about Mags, but he already defeated Exodus and Genocide, those are some powerful opponents. But the fact that Bunn breaks Mags' shields repeatedly rustles up my jimmies very bad! I mean, the hell? Better not use them at all instead of disgracing Mags' most fancy attribute.

I think he'd shine on something like Weapon X or X-force with stabby/shooty/etc lineup.

@adamtrmm:

I'd agree about Mags, but he already defeated Exodus and Genocide, those are some powerful opponents.

Wait a minute, he has beaten Exodus? Wow.....i have totally forgotten about that instance. Yeah, he is REALLY powerful opponent, so can't disagree with you now, lol.

But the fact that Bunn breaks Mags' shields repeatedly rustles up my jimmies very bad! I mean, the hell? Better not use them at all instead of disgracing Mags' most fancy attribute.

Also agreed, but the worst part is that Bunn in some instances tries to explain HOW the character could break his force-fields, like Havok's plasma heat disrupting Magneto's magnetic force-field, because magnets lose their magnetism because of heat, but this notion is fundamentally stupid since Magneto is not a Magnet Man, i think you know that very well, as well as how magnets generate fields and why they lose it (which is actually connected to atomic callibration), and why those explanations are not really equivalent to Magneto, after all the sun has one big a** magnetic field. :D

I think he'd shine on something like Weapon X or X-force with stabby/shooty/etc lineup.

Good point, but would he really like to work on X franchise, i mean there is a really limit to anyone, and he might want a breath of fresh air so to speak, i could also see him writing Defenders, you know Daredevil, Luke Cage and such.... i think he could fit there too.

@the_wotan:

Damn, I didn't notice this note. It's official, the new design's absence of numbers of notifications sucks!

Wait a minute, he has beaten Exodus? Wow.....i have totally forgotten about that instance. Yeah, he is REALLY powerful opponent, so can't disagree with you now, lol.

Moreover, it was pretty damn neatly illustrated by none other than Greg Land himself.

Also agreed, but the worst part is that Bunn in some instances tries to explain HOW the character could break his force-fields, like Havok's plasma heat disrupting Magneto's magnetic force-field, because magnets lose their magnetism because of heat, but this notion is fundamentally stupid since Magneto is not a Magnet Man, i think you know that very well, as well as how magnets generate fields and why they lose it (which is actually connected to atomic callibration), and why those explanations are not really equivalent to Magneto, after all the sun has one big a** magnetic field. :D

My man! It's nice to see someone with the same frustration.

Good point, but would he really like to work on X franchise, i mean there is a really limit to anyone, and he might want a breath of fresh air so to speak, i could also see him writing Defenders, you know Daredevil, Luke Cage and such.... i think he could fit there too.

I think he would. Since Magneto is probably his top rated big two series, he has a special place for both him and the X-franchise, the way I see it. Aquaman and Lobo fans hated him from what I heard, though his Sinestro book was also well liked. But the reason I said Weapon X/X Force is because of the poor state that section of "r rated" X-verse happens to be in. Pak's WX is utter bleh, Spurrier's X-force was bleh, Bunn does antiheroes really well, his Uncanny X-Men was pretty damn good. Sabertooth/Monet dynamic was top notch, Mag/Psylocke began really well, but ended up being a mess. I mean, Magneto can have some cameos even, which is pretty convenient actually for such a book, what I say, his and Mags love story has burned out, he needs to move on, but some place that is familiar.

@adamtrmm:

Damn, I didn't notice this note. It's official, the new design's absence of numbers of notifications sucks!

Well, this new specific design has many flaws, which are quite noticeable, still waiting for some fixes, but don't think we should expect any changes anytime soon.

My man! It's nice to see someone with the same frustration.

Nice, glad we share the same thoughts regarding that notion, but aside from that i have many frustrations when it comes to Magneto's powers (and not just his abilities but super-powers in general).

I think you know very well that Magneto's ability theoretically gives him one of the most versatile science based powersets essentially, which technically gives writers a certain space where they can interpret and show interesting showcase of versatility in non-linear way (a.k.a not power-levels i.e. DBZ style) without making him a moon or planet buster yet still being a threat, thus you can have character to be weaker than the opponent but defeat the said opponent by using smart battle tacticts regarding his usage of power in specific way (Magneto vs Proteus comes to mind in certain way it did portray that raw power does not necessarily mean you are gonna win the fight), in these days writers just got lazy and just have plain circus show raw power vs raw power instead of what i described, they seem to forget that Magneto's most dangerous skill was always his genius mind.

IMO, for me, depowered state of Magneto could have been used as an opportunity to have him showcase the described smart battle tactic style of combat, but as you know instead we have blasts, metal throwing and all traditional/cliche useage of abilities.

For comparison, It's basically like having a character with vast skills of sorcery (ala Doctor Strange) and have him only shoot energy blasts.

I think he would. Since Magneto is probably his top rated big two series, he has a special place for both him and the X-franchise, the way I see it.

Same, from his last written comics he still seems to have his shtick but he and Magneto were too long together time to move on as well, but other than that, the main problem is that the storyline he focused on that (with all that anti-villain Emma and etc....) can't work properly, since well the original draft which was created during IvX storyline was kinda horrible (and that's just sugarcoating it), what i am saying is that you can't have proper narrative storytelling when the core elements were already essentially fu**** up in a first place.

There is also the editorial push and problems which Marvel is quite infamous for and other problems limiting writers story freedom, in my personal opinion, writers like Bunn should be given more freedom and have self-contained stories without the need of picking up and trying to finish others' story drafts (like the Emma one for prime example).

Aquaman and Lobo fans hated him from what I heard, though his Sinestro book was also well liked.

Can't really comment on his Aquaman and Lobo runs since i haven't read them, but i did read his Sinestro run, and it was awesome, i really liked it, it was good in terms of narrative and storytelling, sure it had flaws just like any other books, but the quality of it kinda overshadows the said falws.

But the reason I said Weapon X/X Force is because of the poor state that section of "r rated" X-verse happens to be in.

Now this is a good point, i am not really a big X-Force reader/fan, but i do pick up some of those books from time to time and i can see your main problems there. By having Bunn on X-Force, we basically bring fresh air on those books and thus have proper "R Rated" X-book, instead of well you know what we have nowdays.

Pak's WX is utter bleh,

To be fair, Pak as a writer has lost his schtick so to speak, so far in last years everything he wrote can be described as "utter bleh".

Spurrier's X-force was bleh,

Totally agreed.

Bunn does antiheroes really well, his Uncanny X-Men was pretty damn good. Sabertooth/Monet dynamic was top notch, Mag/Psylocke began really well, but ended up being a mess.

Agreed on this as well, espeically on S/M chemistry, it was really good, to my knowledge Bunn didn't finish that part of his story and other writer took those characters and he will finish them, don't know whether he will manage it or not, so i guess that is a matter of time, hope he doesn't fail in that regard.

Regarding Mag/Psylocke, the way i saw it is that Mags forced Psylocke to "kill" him as part of his plan to go hiding in the dark while everyone thinks he is dead, but the main problem with that is that the whole hiding out part of the story was not really fleshed out nor brought anything significant in terms of narrative. And in the end during the X-men Gold/Blue crossover him being alive was revealed, and if you think about it his fake death didn't last long, nor did bring anything significant, so why have it in a first place? You can literally remove that part from the story and it would change nothing, it was needless so to speak.

I mean, Magneto can have some cameos even, which is pretty convenient actually for such a book, what I say, his and Mags love story has burned out, he needs to move on, but some place that is familiar.

Agreed on this as well, i rememmber Magneto having cameos in older X-Force books as well, so not the first time and definitely not the last time, plus as you said he quite does fit in the R rate ton of those books given what type of character he is.

But the problem with editorial staff would still remain in current era, Marvel has many problems in that area be it Brevoort or someone else.

@the_wotan:

Nice, glad we share the same thoughts regarding that notion, but aside from that i have many frustrations when it comes to Magneto's powers (and not just his abilities but super-powers in general).

I think you know very well that Magneto's ability theoretically gives him one of the most versatile science based powersets essentially, which technically gives writers a certain space where they can interpret and show interesting showcase of versatility in non-linear way (a.k.a not power-levels i.e. DBZ style) without making him a moon or planet buster yet still being a threat, thus you can have character to be weaker than the opponent but defeat the said opponent by using smart battle tacticts regarding his usage of power in specific way (Magneto vs Proteus comes to mind in certain way it did portray that raw power does not necessarily mean you are gonna win the fight), in these days writers just got lazy and just have plain circus show raw power vs raw power instead of what i described, they seem to forget that Magneto's most dangerous skill was always his genius mind.

Exactly. I've made a special list of how much Mags could've done with his powerset and the amount of shit he can do is... striking. Not only in the conceptual kind of way, but with appropriation of it on our everyday lives. Our military are metal, the nuclear explosion happens when certain particles of opposite charge cancel each other out, turning matter into energy which results in the release of vast electromagnetic reaction, hell, effing internet is electromagnetic waves as well. His powers are perfect for action AND espionage, such an "antagonist (depending on who's asking)", if written to his whole potential would be a nightmare to deal with. I also liked what you said about power levels, he doesn't have to moonbust or something, but if he effs up Earth's magnetic field, ecosystem is done, hell, whole biosphere will be done, from flora and fauna on the surface to the oceans and its lifeforms. As for more powerful foes, how about a hidden sharpened adamantium shrapnels that we know can even penetrate Thanos? The guys has all of it going on for him. Sure, that's entering a marysue zone, but if you do it correctly, it wouldn't be excessive. Ignoring those abilities isn't any better if you ask me. It's simply dumbing everything down. Proteus vs. Mags is a good example actually.

IMO, for me, depowered state of Magneto could have been used as an opportunity to have him showcase the described smart battle tactic style of combat, but as you know instead we have blasts, metal throwing and all traditional/cliche useage of abilities.

For comparison, It's basically like having a character with vast skills of sorcery (ala Doctor Strange) and have him only shoot energy blasts.

Absolutely. I was really disappointed when instead of using Mags' scientific knowledge well established by Claremont Bunn made him use MGH which to me was superbly unimaginative. How about some armors? How about EMS manipulating suit he got a hold of during his association with High Evolutionary. How about simpler low profile missions that will force Mags to get more personal with the issues.

Same, from his last written comics he still seems to have his shtick but he and Magneto were too long together time to move on as well, but other than that, the main problem is that the storyline he focused on that (with all that anti-villain Emma and etc....) can't work properly, since well the original draft which was created during IvX storyline was kinda horrible (and that's just sugarcoating it), what i am saying is that you can't have proper narrative storytelling when the core elements were already essentially fu**** up in a first place.

There is also the editorial push and problems which Marvel is quite infamous for and other problems limiting writers story freedom, in my personal opinion, writers like Bunn should be given more freedom and have self-contained stories without the need of picking up and trying to finish others' story drafts (like the Emma one for prime example).

Heh I agree completely. It's nice he's playing by the rules and all, but at this point of total "disconnectivity (meaning Marvel is really loose on continuity)" it is simply misguided. No one cares about no one's stories, but should he? Especially when it's a bad one.

Can't really comment on his Aquaman and Lobo runs since i haven't read them, but i did read his Sinestro run, and it was awesome, i really liked it, it was good in terms of narrative and storytelling, sure it had flaws just like any other books, but the quality of it kinda overshadows the said falws.

Maybe I will give it a read one day.

Now this is a good point, i am not really a big X-Force reader/fan, but i do pick up some of those books from time to time and i can see your main problems there. By having Bunn on X-Force, we basically bring fresh air on those books and thus have proper "R Rated" X-book, instead of well you know what we have nowdays.

Yep. I can see that lineup:

• Cable
• Sabertooth
• Monet
• Warpath
• Archangel
• Domino

Didn't add Psylocke because that would be too much like his Uncanny, same with Deadpool because he kind of breaks the whole tense, dark and gritty stuff. Though if his comedic traits will be managed and tweaked into a proper direction, I think he can be good too.

Agreed on this as well, espeically on S/M chemistry, it was really good, to my knowledge Bunn didn't finish that part of his story and other writer took those characters and he will finish them, don't know whether he will manage it or not, so i guess that is a matter of time, hope he doesn't fail in that regard.

I don't think he'll pick up these developments anytime soon.

Regarding Mag/Psylocke, the way i saw it is that Mags forced Psylocke to "kill" him as part of his plan to go hiding in the dark while everyone thinks he is dead, but the main problem with that is that the whole hiding out part of the story was not really fleshed out nor brought anything significant in terms of narrative. And in the end during the X-men Gold/Blue crossover him being alive was revealed, and if you think about it his fake death didn't last long, nor did bring anything significant, so why have it in a first place? You can literally remove that part from the story and it would change nothing, it was needless so to speak.

Exactly. And now we see current writers picking that up with Psylocke's narrative of how her besting him in battle is definitive. I mean, lol he outclasses her in raw power so much it isn't even funny. But Bunn allowed this idiotic narrative live on now. I don't think the idea that it was part of his plan is actually part of the writers plan, and while in story it kind of looked ambiguous, Mags was surprised when she delivered the kill shot. Also, it wasn't confirmed that Exodus and Elixir arriving was planned.

Agreed on this as well, i rememmber Magneto having cameos in older X-Force books as well, so not the first time and definitely not the last time, plus as you said he quite does fit in the R rate ton of those books given what type of character he is.

But the problem with editorial staff would still remain in current era, Marvel has many problems in that area be it Brevoort or someone else.

Well yeah... the bigger Marvel picture is simply impossible to look at at this moment so it's all kind of bad. I guess it's the time for total clean slate. Total universal make over.

@adamtrmm:

Exactly. I've made a special list of how much Mags could've done with his powerset and the amount of shit he can do is... striking. Not only in the conceptual kind of way, but with appropriation of it on our everyday lives. Our military are metal, the nuclear explosion happens when certain particles of opposite charge cancel each other out, turning matter into energy which results in the release of vast electromagnetic reaction, hell, effing internet is electromagnetic waves as well. His powers are perfect for action AND espionage, such an "antagonist (depending on who's asking)", if written to his whole potential would be a nightmare to deal with.

Completely agreed with your presented notions here. Magneto's powerset truly does make him a versatile being with multiple uses, for comparison, he can by basic D&D terms be ranked as tank, a mage and so on... he has qualities of multiple classifications type characters, which allows to have more diverse stories with useage of power, as you mentioned we could have an espionage type stories with depowered Mags, ala James Bond essentially, now IMO it would be a nice twist to his character.

And he rather looks good in a suit, i can definitely can see him pulling of a James Bond.

Fan fact, if Magneto used his powers in certain ways he could also mimic TALKING FIRE, not joking that's actually a real life thing. Looks like magic, doesn't it, i mean it doesn't take that much power and can be used as psychological intimidation type move in battles. :)

I also liked what you said about power levels, he doesn't have to moonbust or something, but if he effs up Earth's magnetic field, ecosystem is done, hell, whole biosphere will be done, from flora and fauna on the surface to the oceans and its lifeforms.

Yeah, i am generally not fan of power-levels, i prefer when characters get "brain hurts" so to speak, in current age most of the super-powered fights go by traditional cliche'd way, there is no interesting diversity there, thus they just bore me in general. There is basically no tension if you know what powers those characters have and standard cliche useages of fight, you can essentially guess who is gonna win rather easily, but with battle smarts, the thing doesn't work that way, thus you have certain tension going on, but that's a rarity nowdays.

As for more powerful foes, how about a hidden sharpened adamantium shrapnels that we know can even penetrate Thanos? The guys has all of it going on for him. Sure, that's entering a marysue zone, but if you do it correctly, it wouldn't be excessive.

Also agreed, you can have him carry those type of items when he is fighting someone really tough, but on day to day basis it would be better if he had let's say carbonadium or secondary adamantium or etc...

Ignoring those abilities isn't any better if you ask me. It's simply dumbing everything down. Proteus vs. Mags is a good example actually.

True, characters "magically" forgetting their powersets is not really good for story especially if you know that the said character could have done it differently and had the chance to do so, yet due to plot reasons didn't do it, i call it writer laziness, they get paid for their brains and imagination, so they must use it to the full potential and properly.

Absolutely. I was really disappointed when instead of using Mags' scientific knowledge well established by Claremont Bunn made him use MGH which to me was superbly unimaginative.

Yeah, MGH was really a bad narrative choice really, why rely on that when Magneto was never fond of drugs and similar type solutions i rememmber Mags criticizing the hell out of Quicksilver when he was using Terrigen to return mutants their powers post-HoM, just adding this bit, and yet we know that Magneto has scientific genius which can impress even Reed Richards, that's rather high amount of brain power, we very well know that Magneto could have created an armor simulating his powers, or some other wonders of technology, the list is quite big if you consider what Magneto can do with scientific tools.

How about some armors? How about EMS manipulating suit he got a hold of during his association with High Evolutionary.

Yeah that issue was bugging me as well, i mean Mags really liked that battle suit, so i am fairly sure he would have kept that, but it can be boiled down to writers not following and rememmbering continuity issues.

How about simpler low profile missions that will force Mags to get more personal with the issues.

Now this is what i wanted with Magneto's solo, a great chance to have more "human" stories so to speak, with X-Force style rating. Having stories that are not black/white, but also not greyish ala winners write the history thus making the "protagonists" (even though they are "villains") essentially.

Basically that type of space is rather rich with diverse solutions for narrative, yet we didn't get any of that, sadly.

Heh I agree completely. It's nice he's playing by the rules and all, but at this point of total "disconnectivity (meaning Marvel is really loose on continuity)" it is simply misguided. No one cares about no one's stories, but should he? Especially when it's a bad one.

Yeah, that's not really a good action choice from Bunn, noone is playing by rules anymore in Marvel, so instead of trying to pick up already destructive continuity just write SELF-CONTAINED stories.

Yep. I can see that lineup:

• Cable
• Sabertooth
• Monet
• Warpath
• Archangel
• Domino

Didn't add Psylocke because that would be too much like his Uncanny, same with Deadpool because he kind of breaks the whole tense, dark and gritty stuff. Though if his comedic traits will be managed and tweaked into a proper direction, I think he can be good too.

That's a nice line up, i also agree with not using Psylocke and Deadpool, i am not really a fan of Deadpool, i mean if done right he can be used in such books, but i generally prefer so that he stays out of those, but then that is just my personal opinion really.

I don't think he'll pick up these developments anytime soon.

So far it seems, i honestly wanted him to finish that story draft, because from other book i saw, the development of that plot point is kinda going mehish.... really.

Exactly. And now we see current writers picking that up with Psylocke's narrative of how her besting him in battle is definitive. I mean, lol he outclasses her in raw power so much it isn't even funny. But Bunn allowed this idiotic narrative live on now.

Yeah, that was really a bad decision in terms of story telling, and even during the fight Mags was superior, yet he suddenly turned OFF his forcefield and starting playing "dumb", i mean he was not even tired or such to justify such decisions, it was just plain stupid.

I don't think the idea that it was part of his plan is actually part of the writers plan, and while in story it kind of looked ambiguous, Mags was surprised when she delivered the kill shot. Also, it wasn't confirmed that Exodus and Elixir arriving was planned.

Kinda true, but the headcannon which i presented kinda suits Mags more, don't you think? A planner who always pulls the strings and was holding back for his personal plans, i think that is a better choice of narrative, instead of woman power of Psylocke and "lucky" chances of arrival of Elixir and Exodus, as well as dumb battle decisions of Mags during his fight with Psylocke, but then that's just my personal headcannon.

Well yeah... the bigger Marvel picture is simply impossible to look at at this moment so it's all kind of bad. I guess it's the time for total clean slate. Total universal make over.

Seems like the only proper solution of the problem at this point honestly.

@the_wotan:

Completely agreed with your presented notions here. Magneto's powerset truly does make him a versatile being with multiple uses, for comparison, he can by basic D&D terms be ranked as tank, a mage and so on... he has qualities of multiple classifications type characters, which allows to have more diverse stories with useage of power, as you mentioned we could have an espionage type stories with depowered Mags, ala James Bond essentially, now IMO it would be a nice twist to his character.

It could also do wonders for him CHARACTER wise. It would also be fitting for him to have flashbacks from the times when he was completely depowered post-M-day of which we've seen almost nothing. How does Magneto himself feel about being Homo Sapiens Sapiens? What does it do to him knowing it was HIS daughter that hurt mutants the most? Whom did he trust while hiding? What "instruments" did he use without his powers? I think "stories about the lose of power" should always be character driven. More cerebral, more grounded, more personal.

And he rather looks good in a suit, i can definitely can see him pulling of a James Bond.

Dandy Maggie is always a bonus!

Fan fact, if Magneto used his powers in certain ways he could also mimic TALKING FIRE, not joking that's actually a real life thing. Looks like magic, doesn't it, i mean it doesn't take that much power and can be used as psychological intimidation type move in battles. :)

lol that's pretty awesome! EM is a fundamental universal force of nature, it one of the aspects that binds reality, mastering such force even in limited areas would grant the master, no pun, tools to not only bend parts of reality to his will, but also fundamental, intuitive and firsthand understanding of things that regular people who can only hypothesize about. For example, have you ever heard about one electron universe or Young's interference experiment? Well, Mags should be knowing the answers to the things smartest people in the world don't just by design. And with his, let's call it, direct relation to the electrons, he becomes the perfect bridge between our and the quantum realms. I understand how complicated writing such powerset to its full potential can be, but I do believe there are creative ways out as even I have ideas and I'm not a writer.

Yeah, i am generally not fan of power-levels, i prefer when characters get "brain hurts" so to speak, in current age most of the super-powered fights go by traditional cliche'd way, there is no interesting diversity there, thus they just bore me in general. There is basically no tension if you know what powers those characters have and standard cliche useages of fight, you can essentially guess who is gonna win rather easily, but with battle smarts, the thing doesn't work that way, thus you have certain tension going on, but that's a rarity nowdays.

Also agreed, you can have him carry those type of items when he is fighting someone really tough, but on day to day basis it would be better if he had let's say carbonadium or secondary adamantium or etc...

Oh I love power levels, and I hate PIS battles, but I totally accept when "out of one's league" character defeats the other leaguer in a well explained and plausible way. But if you ask me, well written brawls that are pretty classic yet are entertaining to look are:

Superman vs Doomsday - Doomed crossover (loved Lashley's interiors and layouts)

Avengers vs Black Order and Thanos - Infinity crossover

Franklin and Galactus vs Mad Celestials - Hickman's FF (you'd guess these entities can do more than just spam beams and hit each other with fists, but still it was amazeballs imo)

But with Mags, it has to be about creativity. I swear every time I see him lifting a car I wish someone to lose their job lol I mean, even with simple ferrokinesis you can do much more than just effing throwing metal objects. How about reshapable constructs? Malleable armor that can be weaponized? Golems? Metal micro particles that can cause major internal damage? Or liquid metal? I swear since Claremont almost no one savours these integral aspects of comics.

Yeah, MGH was really a bad narrative choice really, why rely on that when Magneto was never fond of drugs and similar type solutions i rememmber Mags criticizing the hell out of Quicksilver when he was using Terrigen to return mutants their powers post-HoM, just adding this bit, and yet we know that Magneto has scientific genius which can impress even Reed Richards, that's rather high amount of brain power, we very well know that Magneto could have created an armor simulating his powers, or some other wonders of technology, the list is quite big if you consider what Magneto can do with scientific tools.

I do think that MGH as a plot device does enrich mutant metaphor and X-verse in general and can play interesting roles in certain X-stories, but this just wasn't one. It's funny that Bunn did remember his scientific genius in a story with Marauders, as he wouldn't be able to "reprogram" them without it, and yet made him need some lowlife for synthesizing MGH. I mean, why? You were totally on track with the former lol!

Yeah that issue was bugging me as well, i mean Mags really liked that battle suit, so i am fairly sure he would have kept that, but it can be boiled down to writers not following and rememmbering continuity issues.

Deal is, Bunn always seemed to basically expose the fact he loved continuity and he showed a lot of knowledge, but it's the crucial moments that failed him. Like the redundant retcon with Russian submarine that Claremont already dealt with exquisitely as opposed to whatever Bunn did:

Claremont's:

Bunn's:

Gallery

Funnily enough, Bunn will reference that Claremont's moment in the same issue, but I guess he didn't remember what was going on verbatim. I understand knowing every single issue and quote is impossible, but there are stories and developments that define the character, and X-men v2 1-3 is one of those arcs imo

Now this is what i wanted with Magneto's solo, a great chance to have more "human" stories so to speak, with X-Force style rating. Having stories that are not black/white, but also not greyish ala winners write the history thus making the "protagonists" (even though they are "villains") essentially.

Basically that type of space is rather rich with diverse solutions for narrative, yet we didn't get any of that, sadly.

It was more or less that until crossovers and MGH stuff. I also think that trying to be grey all the time wasn't the best tactic on Bunn's part. I mean, many times it felt heavy handed. I think the shades should come naturally and not become the main point of the narrative like it felt in his.

That's a nice line up, i also agree with not using Psylocke and Deadpool, i am not really a fan of Deadpool, i mean if done right he can be used in such books, but i generally prefer so that he stays out of those, but then that is just my personal opinion really.

Same, but Bunn is also a Deadpool writer so I would guess he will totally be his choice as well.

Yeah, that was really a bad decision in terms of story telling, and even during the fight Mags was superior, yet he suddenly turned OFF his forcefield and starting playing "dumb", i mean he was not even tired or such to justify such decisions, it was just plain stupid.

"le sigh"...

Kinda true, but the headcannon which i presented kinda suits Mags more, don't you think? A planner who always pulls the strings and was holding back for his personal plans, i think that is a better choice of narrative, instead of woman power of Psylocke and "lucky" chances of arrival of Elixir and Exodus, as well as dumb battle decisions of Mags during his fight with Psylocke, but then that's just my personal headcannon.

I agree, let's spread the word. The defective outcome needs to be retwisted of sorts heh

@adamtrmm:

It could also do wonders for him CHARACTER wise. It would also be fitting for him to have flashbacks from the times when he was completely depowered post-M-day of which we've seen almost nothing. How does Magneto himself feel about being Homo Sapiens Sapiens? What does it do to him knowing it was HIS daughter that hurt mutants the most? Whom did he trust while hiding? What "instruments" did he use without his powers? I think "stories about the lose of power" should always be character driven. More cerebral, more grounded, more personal.

Agreed with your proposition here, i like the idea of more emotional and personal level stories regarding Magneto in depowered days, so like you, i would like to see a mini-series with post-HoM Magneto and personal level story, basically we need a more grounded narrative elements being present, after all what makes Magneto relatable is his human emotions overall, we need more spotlight on that, but it would take a proper writer to execute such story drafts properly. As you very well know, there is a common trope among writers - good concepts and story drafts, bad executions. So while the concept sounds incredibly well, the end result of finished product can be bad......so what i am saying that besides of a good idea, we need a good writer who can execute those ideas properly on paper.

Dandy Maggie is always a bonus!

Never goes wrong with that. :D

lol that's pretty awesome! EM is a fundamental universal force of nature, it one of the aspects that binds reality, mastering such force even in limited areas would grant the master, no pun, tools to not only bend parts of reality to his will, but also fundamental, intuitive and firsthand understanding of things that regular people who can only hypothesize about. For example, have you ever heard about one electron universe or Young's interference experiment? Well, Mags should be knowing the answers to the things smartest people in the world don't just by design. And with his, let's call it, direct relation to the electrons, he becomes the perfect bridge between our and the quantum realms. I understand how complicated writing such powerset to its full potential can be, but I do believe there are creative ways out as even I have ideas and I'm not a writer.

Of course i have heard of those *quickly does a good search*.....

On a serious note the description of details regarding those gives me vibes of along the lines of Cosmic Awareness essentially, the decriptions of the effects of those sound very similar to me really, basically the universe itself gives knowledge and answers to the person.

But regarding it, i think it doesn't have to necessarily be on FULL POTENTIAL, but let's say on specific level, without making such ability broken as hell so to speak, basically a proper balance. But even then in such balance it would still be hard to write such powerset, but sure as hell, it would be very intriguing and interesting to do. I mean we can have stories where the characters has knowledge and answers like what would happen to X person but can't do anything to change that person's fate, thus it can be a suffering and even a curse to the said person.

Regarding your ideas overall, those are very nice, but modern writers are very lazy when it comes to writing powers and abilities, and they just go by basics, because it's easier to do.

Oh I love power levels, and I hate PIS battles, but I totally accept when "out of one's league" character defeats the other leaguer in a well explained and plausible way.

Well, can't disagree with this, since if done right, it can be very entertaining, even if you are not fan of power-levels....

But if you ask me, well written brawls that are pretty classic yet are entertaining to look are:

Superman vs Doomsday - Doomed crossover (loved Lashley's interiors and layouts)

Avengers vs Black Order and Thanos - Infinity crossover

Franklin and Galactus vs Mad Celestials - Hickman's FF (you'd guess these entities can do more than just spam beams and hit each other with fists, but still it was amazeballs imo)

Good mentions, my personal favorite out of those is Superman vs Doomsday deathbattle, that's for sure.

Regarding Franklin vs Celestials, it was explained along the lines that the battle of cosmic entities of such caliber happens on multiple plains of existence, and our senses are too limited to comprehend it so to speak, thus we onlu see just basic battle, but in reality it is a reality shaking murderhouse essentially. I think this notion was explained during the Cancerverse invasion arc...

Basically this was an easy out way for writers have bland cosmic battle with actual justification to it, even though it's just plain laziness factually.

But with Mags, it has to be about creativity.

True, his power is all about creative uses surrounding it, instead of plain throwing metal left and right.

I swear every time I see him lifting a car I wish someone to lose their job lol I mean, even with simple ferrokinesis you can do much more than just effing throwing metal objects.

Agreed with this so much, every time he does it is just annoying at this point, how about something fresh and creative for once, it's not that hard, a simply google search of 15 minutes would give you at least 20+ explanations of what effects Magneto can achieve with his power. Internet has already done the job of what can be achieved by magnetism all writers needs is simply give it some time to read and use in comics, nothing more.

How about reshapable constructs? Malleable armor that can be weaponized? Golems? Metal micro particles that can cause major internal damage? Or liquid metal? I swear since Claremont almost no one savours these integral aspects of comics.

Well said, and to add more, those abilities which you mentioned can be classified as "BASICS" essentially, what i mean is that it is easy to come up with them, but yet we rarely see any of those.

Regarind Claremont, there were many aspects left behind since him in general.

I do think that MGH as a plot device does enrich mutant metaphor and X-verse in general and can play interesting roles in certain X-stories, but this just wasn't one.

I do agree with this, you can have MGH as a certain narrative element for plot development, but for Magneto it just doesn't work.

It's funny that Bunn did remember his scientific genius in a story with Marauders, as he wouldn't be able to "reprogram" them without it, and yet made him need some lowlife for synthesizing MGH. I mean, why? You were totally on track with the former lol!

Let's not forget that Bunn also made Magneto build a freaking TIME MACHINE which works perfectly fine as well as an Aritifical Intelligence in his house all of this happened in X-Men Blue, and yet to think that such person would use MGH as a powerboost element, not that believable really. I would believe more if he made Magneto use nanites/nanomachines for power restoration or boosts.

Deal is, Bunn always seemed to basically expose the fact he loved continuity and he showed a lot of knowledge, but it's the crucial moments that failed him. Like the redundant retcon with Russian submarine that Claremont already dealt with exquisitely as opposed to whatever Bunn did:

Claremont's:

Bunn's:

Funnily enough, Bunn will reference that Claremont's moment in the same issue, but I guess he didn't remember what was going on verbatim. I understand knowing every single issue and quote is impossible, but there are stories and developments that define the character, and X-men v2 1-3 is one of those arcs imo

Agree with this too, *as well as a quick reminder that i really need to reread Claremont's books* but yeah rememmbering everything is impossible, that is true, but knowing the basic and important details is easy, yet those details are totally missing in Bunn's interpretation of the same instance. I also agree that the said story arc was acting as a narrative growth element to Magneto. You can very well see how it affected Magneto emotionally and the consequences of it, so as you said, it was a crucial moment for Magneto.

It was more or less that until crossovers and MGH stuff. I also think that trying to be grey all the time wasn't the best tactic on Bunn's part. I mean, many times it felt heavy handed. I think the shades should come naturally and not become the main point of the narrative like it felt in his.

True, it can also become bland at certain points as well, there are many problems when it is heavy handed, it should come natural, i suppose if Bunn did a more grounded, personal story with Magneto it would more natural, i suppose.

Same, but Bunn is also a Deadpool writer so I would guess he will totally be his choice as well.

Fair enough, but only if done properly, that is my only concern regaring the useage of Deadpool in teambooks.

I agree, let's spread the word. The defective outcome needs to be retwisted of sorts heh

You speak with thy wisdom, friend. :D

@the_wotan:

Agreed with your proposition here, i like the idea of more emotional and personal level stories regarding Magneto in depowered days, so like you, i would like to see a mini-series with post-HoM Magneto and personal level story, basically we need a more grounded narrative elements being present, after all what makes Magneto relatable is his human emotions overall, we need more spotlight on that, but it would take a proper writer to execute such story drafts properly.

That would be great.

As you very well know, there is a common trope among writers - good concepts and story drafts, bad executions. So while the concept sounds incredibly well, the end result of finished product can be bad......so what i am saying that besides of a good idea, we need a good writer who can execute those ideas properly on paper.

Yeah it's also pretty consistent among even the top writers. I wonder what's wrong with the medium that makes it such a common trait.

Of course i have heard of those *quickly does a good search*.....

Gotta say, god bless the searching engines :))

On a serious note the description of details regarding those gives me vibes of along the lines of Cosmic Awareness essentially, the decriptions of the effects of those sound very similar to me really, basically the universe itself gives knowledge and answers to the person.

Well you could say that acknowledging some theories and hypothetical characteristics. It's that the way the electron acts is still undeciphered.

But regarding it, i think it doesn't have to necessarily be on FULL POTENTIAL, but let's say on specific level, without making such ability broken as hell so to speak, basically a proper balance. But even then in such balance it would still be hard to write such powerset, but sure as hell, it would be very intriguing and interesting to do.

Sure thing. The uber abilities should be rarely used, I agree. I think Claremont introduced a proper limitation. When Mags uses his powers extensively and vastly, it can affect him on a physical level. So that will prevent him from going full on "marysue", but there's a problem with that narrative device when some writers overdo it and it's when we constantly see him blacking out because of that. I mean, it's if there can't be balance for some writers.

I mean we can have stories where the characters has knowledge and answers like what would happen to X person but can't do anything to change that person's fate, thus it can be a suffering and even a curse to the said person.

Heh, determinism at its purest :)

Regarding your ideas overall, those are very nice, but modern writers are very lazy when it comes to writing powers and abilities, and they just go by basics, because it's easier to do.

Yeah it's been long since I've seen a properly written battle or power showoff >_>

Regarding Franklin vs Celestials, it was explained along the lines that the battle of cosmic entities of such caliber happens on multiple plains of existence, and our senses are too limited to comprehend it so to speak, thus we onlu see just basic battle, but in reality it is a reality shaking murderhouse essentially. I think this notion was explained during the Cancerverse invasion arc...

Basically this was an easy out way for writers have bland cosmic battle with actual justification to it, even though it's just plain laziness factually.

But at least they do acknowledge there's an elephant in the room they need to deal with and that's alone shows they care enough. Not every artist can transmit "beyond 3d battles" so it's not the worst way out if you ask me.

True, his power is all about creative uses surrounding it, instead of plain throwing metal left and right.

Agreed with this so much, every time he does it is just annoying at this point, how about something fresh and creative for once, it's not that hard, a simply google search of 15 minutes would give you at least 20+ explanations of what effects Magneto can achieve with his power. Internet has already done the job of what can be achieved by magnetism all writers needs is simply give it some time to read and use in comics, nothing more.

Amen!

Well said, and to add more, those abilities which you mentioned can be classified as "BASICS" essentially, what i mean is that it is easy to come up with them, but yet we rarely see any of those.

Regarind Claremont, there were many aspects left behind since him in general.

"le sigh" again <_<

Let's not forget that Bunn also made Magneto build a freaking TIME MACHINE which works perfectly fine as well as an Aritifical Intelligence in his house all of this happened in X-Men Blue, and yet to think that such person would use MGH as a powerboost element, not that believable really. I would believe more if he made Magneto use nanites/nanomachines for power restoration or boosts.

Damn you're right. I guess he really wanted that MGH narrative. I'm not sure why he was so fixated on it when it wasn't that great one to begin with. Really dig the nanites concept though! Could've been a much more compelling and interesting plot device to get over Mags' depowerment.

Agree with this too, *as well as a quick reminder that i really need to reread Claremont's books* but yeah rememmbering everything is impossible, that is true, but knowing the basic and important details is easy, yet those details are totally missing in Bunn's interpretation of the same instance. I also agree that the said story arc was acting as a narrative growth element to Magneto. You can very well see how it affected Magneto emotionally and the consequences of it, so as you said, it was a crucial moment for Magneto.

That's where I am these days as far as X-stories go, because modern X-comics are nothing but a travesty, makes you also look back even more fondly.

Claremont's Mags inner voice makes him really damn complex if not the most complex char in comics. No one was able to replicate that after him.

Fair enough, but only if done properly, that is my only concern regaring the useage of Deadpool in teambooks.

I like him when written correctly, but kind of hate when not. I share this concern because I found his focus on Uncanny Avengers to leave a lot to be desired to say the least.

You speak with thy wisdom, friend. :D

lol I have my moments. ;))

@adamtrmm:

Yeah it's also pretty consistent among even the top writers. I wonder what's wrong with the medium that makes it such a common trait.

Sad, but true, still don't know why such things happen even among top caliber writers, don't think it's laziness, i suppose it takes more time for such stories, as in time = quality, so it can possibly be so that it takes more time to construct proper story draft to follow, who knows or i am just making an excuse for them, for all we can all speculate the reasons of bad executions, but without knowing the writer on personal level, we won't really know the actual reasons.

Gotta say, god bless the searching engines :))

Amen.

Well you could say that acknowledging some theories and hypothetical characteristics. It's that the way the electron acts is still undeciphered.

Well, that didn't stop writers applying theoretical elements to powers of comic book characters (there are many examples of that, like Magneto creating a wormhole should qualify under such notion), so even if it is just a theory, writers could still apply it.

Sure thing. The uber abilities should be rarely used, I agree. I think Claremont introduced a proper limitation. When Mags uses his powers extensively and vastly, it can affect him on a physical level. So that will prevent him from going full on "marysue", but there's a problem with that narrative device when some writers overdo it and it's when we constantly see him blacking out because of that. I mean, it's if there can't be balance for some writers.

So to simplify what was said such powerset could work, if only multiple writers followed BASIC estabilished consistency regarding the character and the limitations surrounding his powers, it's kinda hard to believe that it can be pulled of, since each writers has his/her own interpretation of power-levels and limitations, only few follow consistency, but if editors did a push on them, then this might actually work.

Heh, determinism at its purest :)

Could be interesting on paper, if done right, of course.

Yeah it's been long since I've seen a properly written battle or power showoff >_>

Welcome to the club, i am sitting there for years now, still waiting for proper new battles. :D

But at least they do acknowledge there's an elephant in the room they need to deal with and that's alone shows they care enough. Not every artist can transmit "beyond 3d battles" so it's not the worst way out if you ask me.

Fair enough.

Damn you're right. I guess he really wanted that MGH narrative. I'm not sure why he was so fixated on it when it wasn't that great one to begin with.

Same, in terms of narrative it didn't bring that much at all, it was an plot device to boost Magneto's powers, there are many ways to accomplish such without the need of MGH nonsense really, since MGH had not bad side-effects on Magneto at all.

Well at least this type of narrative is not as nonsensual as Morrison's bullshital narrative with all irrelevant weirdness going on, his Magneto was just crap, just plain unbearable to me honestly, thank god it was retconned.

Really dig the nanites concept though! Could've been a much more compelling and interesting plot device to get over Mags' depowerment.

Nanomachines, son !

That's where I am these days as far as X-stories go, because modern X-comics are nothing but a travesty, makes you also look back even more fondly.

Preach.

I have even forgotten when was the last time that good X-book was published, such a long time has passed really....

Claremont's Mags inner voice makes him really damn complex if not the most complex char in comics. No one was able to replicate that after him.

Well said, Claremont was "strong" when it came to narration, and especially as you mentioned inner voice narration. So this is but another of many aspects left behind since him, that's sad. If X-writers followed basic Claremon textbook details how to write an X-men story, who knows we might have gotten better X-books these days....

I like him when written correctly, but kind of hate when not. I share this concern because I found his focus on Uncanny Avengers to leave a lot to be desired to say the least.

Agreed, i think only few writers could pull of a team book with Deadpool.

Though honestly i generally was not a fan of that Uncanny Avengers, as well as didn't like the roster as well....

lol I have my moments. ;))

Can't disagree with this one, hehehehe :D

@the_wotan:

Sad, but true, still don't know why such things happen even among top caliber writers, don't think it's laziness, i suppose it takes more time for such stories, as in time = quality, so it can possibly be so that it takes more time to construct proper story draft to follow, who knows or i am just making an excuse for them, for all we can all speculate the reasons of bad executions, but without knowing the writer on personal level, we won't really know the actual reasons.

I'm thinking it's a combination of editorial mandates, writers' own urges, with passion and creativity, or just lack thereof. My personal formula lolz

Well, that didn't stop writers applying theoretical elements to powers of comic book characters (there are many examples of that, like Magneto creating a wormhole should qualify under such notion), so even if it is just a theory, writers could still apply it.

Agreed, but if they don't get it, they shouldn't touch it though, otherwise we get "heat counters electromagnetism" stuff.

So to simplify what was said such powerset could work, if only multiple writers followed BASIC estabilished consistency regarding the character and the limitations surrounding his powers, it's kinda hard to believe that it can be pulled of, since each writers has his/her own interpretation of power-levels and limitations, only few follow consistency, but if editors did a push on them, then this might actually work.

Yep, editors should be there to think of the bigger picture, larger MU and its history. But it seems like they are there to force additional mandates and narratives.

Welcome to the club, i am sitting there for years now, still waiting for proper new battles. :D

sigh....

Same, in terms of narrative it didn't bring that much at all, it was an plot device to boost Magneto's powers, there are many ways to accomplish such without the need of MGH nonsense really, since MGH had not bad side-effects on Magneto at all.

Well at least this type of narrative is not as nonsensual as Morrison's bullshital narrative with all irrelevant weirdness going on, his Magneto was just crap, just plain unbearable to me honestly, thank god it was retconned.

Yes to all of this and that especially!

Nanomachines, son !

lol

I have even forgotten when was the last time that good X-book was published, such a long time has passed really....

And when you bear in mind how much story potential there still is makes you desperate. Sigh I'm going to write fanfics lol!

Well said, Claremont was "strong" when it came to narration, and especially as you mentioned inner voice narration. So this is but another of many aspects left behind since him, that's sad. If X-writers followed basic Claremon textbook details how to write an X-men story, who knows we might have gotten better X-books these days....

That's the trap right here, they do try to follow his leads, they just do it all wrongfully, it turns out being poor man's copies of superior and original works. But I guess you're talking about story structure and depth, which yeah, no one can replicate. It's a whole different and complex discussion in itself though.

Agreed, i think only few writers could pull of a team book with Deadpool.

Though honestly i generally was not a fan of that Uncanny Avengers, as well as didn't like the roster as well....

Yeah that book turned out being so unfocused and kind of messy. The roster was completely random, but some moments weren't bad at all.

Can't disagree with this one, hehehehe :D