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    X-Men

    Team » X-Men appears in 13410 issues.

    The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.

    Who does Jean love more? Scott or Logan

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    kenshiro3051996

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    Poll Who does Jean love more? Scott or Logan (51 votes)

    Scott 78%
    Logan 22%

    Not who you prefer her with, or who you think makes a better couple with her, but who she loves more

    Scott or Logan?

    No Caption Provided

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    deactivated-60e87a786cc9c

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    PyroFN

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    @gladeusex: Lol. We both are two wordy in our explanation. I just happened to be at my computer when it happened, so you got the scans treatment, lol.

    •In your opinion maybe. I tend to think we don’t have enough child mutants. Then again, Gabby May count as a mutate??? What do clones count as?

    •Not really. If they took up most of the X-book, I’d see what you mean, but no, they at best are a cameo of this issue. (And possibly next issue if it continues to focus on the Avengers as guest stars) Its not the first time the Avengers have been in X-Men books. In fact, they have shared crossovers for as far back as anyone can remember. The “Bloodties arc” is the first that comes to mind.

    •Saying That is basically like say, “You are incapable as a human being if you need to ask for help”. That simply isn’t the case in real life and it isn’t the case in fiction. Different circumstances require different methods. Jean could have handled a lot of the things on her own, but to what end? If she really wants to accomplish what she needs done in the best possible way, then she needs to ask for help and let others carry the weight. Otherwise, there is no point of having a team to begin with.

    •I didn’t turn your thing into an absolute, it was my answer that was absolute. Where you say there is barely an impact, I say there was a total impact.

    •Yes, Jean did have a team who all contributed something. (With exception of Gambit. Not sure why he is there exactly)

    •Jean was busy looking for the person responsible for all the havoc, which is where Cassie reveals herself and unleashes teen Abomination. If Jean were on that mission, she’d need to replicate the telekinetic surgery thing she did to Storm, which would at the very least require Black Panther again, if not Trinary as well.

    •I would like to see how Scott would handle Jeans method and see how far he goes without declaring all out war in Issue one. Seriously, Jeans method is leagues more difficult than Scott. Where Scott made calls on the fly in effort to preserve things, Jean looked at the bigger picture and planned accordingly.

    If Scott were in Jeans position, he would’ve struck down those men and women in India. He would’ve struck down Storm. Maybe he would have tried to seek a better way, but as you keep pointing out, he makes those ‘tough calls’. Jean doesn’t make tough calls, she forged a different path. And it’s far from easy to resist the temp station of facing her for head on without painting herself as the bad guy. Why else do you think Scott is seeing as Magneto 2.0? What Jean is doing has been what the X-Men were supposed to be about to begin with. They are the mediators, the peacekeepers. Not trained soldiers. Not executioners. Not judges.

    •Everyone does monologuing. It’s just that when everyone else does it, they’ve had about enough. When Jean (And old Charles Xavier back in the older X-Men days) do it, they spread a message of peace. That’s why they have those Martin Luther King Jr. vs Malcolm X comparisons.

    •You noticed? Cause online reviewers caught it as well. According to them, Jean does it better. I tend to agree.

    •Look at the scan again and tell me Nova wasn’t about to kill Rachel. I’ll wait.

    •You just said Hulkling. Anything with the name Hulk in it is automatically a problem.

    •Considering the teams most powerful member was busy incapacitating a group of Sentinite controlled people, I’d say it was a big problem. Luckily for Gabby, Nightcrawler, and Laura (Yes, that was everyone) Trinary was around to make it docile.

    •No. It was one gun men and her possi of sentinite mob goers. Either way, Jean nearly got shot at because she was caught off-Guard by her telepathy not working.

    •We were talking about the dangers Jean was facing. If your read the issue again, Jean clearly says there being overwhelmed. Given that there are more hounds than what was depicted in the scan I posted and the fact that Jeans own team were becoming hounds (I.e. Gabby And Trinary), Jean soloing a bunch wasn’t making that much of an impact beyond holding them off. I may also remind oh that Rachel was in the group of hounds, so if the battle were to continue, Jean would’ve had to face her eventually and Jean already acknowledged in Red that Rachel could damage her, so add the fact that Old Man Logan is on the team with a large group of other hounds, even Jean would’ve eventually been overrun unless she used lethal methods, which we know she wouldn’t do without a Last last last resort.

    •Jean is a telepath. Jean doesn’t always mean to, but she does read stray thoughts and she the Annual also shows that she keeps an eye on her friends and others through the minds of others for safety reasons. It’s not farfetched that the telepath would eventually run in to the info on Wolverines daughter.

    •You May not have mentioned competency, but the issue you brought up would’ve led to questions in regards Jeans competency. That’s where the convo was leading.

    •Too many on a team is something I can’t argue with because I agree. I don’t have a problem with it and I do think Tom did his best, but I agree nonetheless. I think Marvel and Tom anticipated a longer run, but then Marvel changed directions and shortened Tom’s run. So Tom wasnt able to give everyone the necessary screen time they deserved.

    •I think your wording is a wrong way of putting it. All of Jeans decisions were difficult, which is why I sarcastically referred to the other way as the “hard calls”. Hard calls aren’t always complex. Sometimes they are the simplest answer which is what this all comes down to. These situations are simple, uncomplex. It’s still hard for Jean to come to her goal. She still has to fight tooth and nail in the most peaceful way while vouching for mutants as an outcast. A simple premise. You wanted complexity. That’s where this series falls short. It’s the simple: Hero vs Villian conflict. There is a clear target. There is an audience whom the hero and villain are persuading. Contrast that to a situation where Scott is in some respects fighting others who make good points. Cassandra never made any good points. Her motives were always purely sinister. So, Tom accomplishes his goal in the best way. You had a different expectation and didn’t get the result you craved. Even still, Simple doesn’t mean easy.

    •A conclusion Jean never would’ve came to without being the person she is or having the friends she has. If Jean simply went out there to face Cassandra’s fleets, how would it have made her look? To go out to war and do the very thing she preached against when talking to the UN? To fight other humans? Jean still went out to war in the end, sort of, but she got the right people to support her, showing that she isn’t the villain to the world. The stakes were high, but Jean found a simple way to resolve it.

    Again, it’s this line of thinking why people always say Schism would never have happened had Jean been alive at the time. (I don’t necessarily agree, but I see why they think that nonetheless)

    •She was given tough choices. She simply made ‘answer E’ In an ABCD multple choice question. It’s:

    What life do you want to lead as a mutant?

    A. Join the mutants

    B. Hide

    C. Register per the Mutant Registration Act

    D. Be killed or detained

    Jean would be like Charles and say,

    E. Be a peaceful mediator and example to both sides.

    •Agree with the two many characters rebuttal.

    •This where I say, “There is a time and place for everything”. If you want to analyze a character who is normally reserved or saying “everything’s fine” than yes, look deeply into who they are to see if what they say is true. (Like how someone with depression is or like how someone who works too much is?) If you are analyzing why they do it and they tell you straight why they do it, then there is no reason to look any deeper unless they are normally untrustworthy. Since this is Jean we are talking about, here is no reason to ask why she would do what she does if the action makes perfect sense to begin with.

    I omitted the speeches because you already know about them. You weren’t paying attention to the other facets of Jeans personality throughout the run, so I focused on that. Why push in front of you what you already noticed to begin with? Why show you a scan of Jean angry at the hotdog when you clearly missed her commanding Trinary not to harm Storm. Why show you a speech when you tried to wave off Jeans feelings regarding being in hiding on Wakanda as a result of the UN conference crime scene.

    •And Jean is a sacred cow. The End.

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    GladeusEx

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    @pyrofn: Oh boi, now I need three windows open to properly address this.

    • I think the low number of mainstay kid/teen mutants is because their powers activate at around low teen ages. Then they need training, etc. Gabby just seems way too well adjusted given her Weapon X/Assassin training, and I just don't like any aspect of the character. I also suppose that I'm not her target demographic. I suspect X-Men Red isn't my target demographic either. I wonder how long it is until X-Men itself is no longer my target demographic.

      As for clones, they're supposed to be perfectly identical. That said, the Phoenix Force could tell the difference between Sinister's clone army of Jean Grey, so there's that.

    • They may be a cameo in the issue, but when I consider the larger context of the entire plotline, they're here to help solve the villain at the climax. Again, it diminishes the point of it being 'X-Men' Red. And again, I'm not against crossovers, but it would make more sense to have other X-Men join in rather than the Avengers.

    • Let me put that into context - Jean confronts Nova alone. I'll agree that the team can split up and tackle other objectives. But Jean confronts Nova alone. I'll say it again, X-Men Red could easily be interchanged with "X-Men: Jean Grey" simply because so much of the focus is on her.

      I don't believe I ever said asking for help is undesirable, or is a sign of detrimental weakness. It's a sign of a greater good, putting below results, and humility. That said, Jean crossed swords with Nova - alone - and got out relatively unscathed. Teamwork is a really, really inconsistent motiff in X-Men Red, and it bugs me.

    • Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I dunno. Your answer started with "No Impact? Right". That may have slid under my sarcasm detection unit, as I interpreted that as you reshaping my thought into something far easier to argue against.

      Which is why I say a real impact has long standing repercussions. Comics are episodic and somewhat can't rely on the reader having read everything, but it gets harder to tell what has caused Jean concern as the issues drag on. In the moment, sure, the facial expressions are spot on, but in every speech she gives, it feels like standard Twitter drama speak.

    • They may have all contributed something (except Gambit), but the contributions are 'screen-time' so to speak, are quite telling.

    • Eh, Jean can block bullets. Or at least put everyone (except the pilot, hopefully) on the plane to sleep. At least, that's how I imagine such a thing happening.

    • Gonna have to disagree. Iirc, Cyclops showed up at the UN for a very similar thing - except Quentin Quire did the goof. As for the bigger picture, Cyclops is definitely THE man with a plan. The problem is, the writers made it so that defeatism eventually got to him. Jean's utopia of what - a sovereign mutant nation - is not a unique plot line, and I don't believe it'll be one that lasts, just like the rest of them. Utopia, Genosha, New Tian, etc etc.
    • Scott's visor beams are typically non-lethal, so he could have done both with about the same end result. The tough calls have involved weaponized cures, extra planetary world killing bullets, Sinister stealing a Celestial head, a Cytorrak Juggernaut, and (this'll seem really ironic) the Phoenix Five, etc etc.

      It's entirely possible that Jean has forged a new path, but her new path has basically been on easy mode.

      When the whole Breakworld saga happened, I think Scott duped the enemy, got himself captured, and generally relied pretty heavily on the individual strengths of his team.

      Up against completely overwhelming odds, Magneto kept the Celestial head intact, and Emma got her arm blown off, and - despite that - switched to telepathy to dispatch Sinister.

      Piotr and Illyana had to subvert Cytorrak to have a chance at defeating the Worthy Juggernaut.

      And Phoenix Five, for better worse, saw good intentions descend into brawls over 'the bigger picture'.

      As of yet, I have seen no sacrifice plays, devilish deals, true physical harm, actual outsmarting, or 'bigger picture' from Jean Grey in X-Men Red. It's mostly been her butting heads with Cassandra Nova, which is bread and butter. But I prefer croissants.

      Addendum: I'm not saying Jean has to do an Emma Frost and shoot Cassandra Nova while getting her Loius Vetton bag. I just want there to be a dramatic decision making point, not just solving simple problems like a game of whackamole.

    • Honestly, monologues are typically for villains. I don't even remember Emma Frost doing a monologue that grandiose - though, wait, X-Men Black. Hmmm.

      Anyhow, I think - in a vacuum - Jean Grey does fairly good monologues. That said, the underlying tone of twitter drama and telling rather than showing is a disservice to what comics actually are.

    • Derp.

    • Remember, Cassandra has killed a substantial amount of people already. Why she ends up doing a terrible job now is basically only plot armor for Rachel or Jean.

    • True, but underwater, Namor should be able to kick his ass.

      That, and Nova should have sent a ton more things at them. You know, like how Forge whipped Inhuman hunting Sentinels out of thin air.

    • Ah yes, the mythical "almost got shot." Mundane bullets are barely a threat in comics. The amount of times you see heroes dodging them makes you wonder how the Stormtrooper academy for marksmanship still exists.

    • Also, the mythical "we're being overwhelmed". Pray tell, did Jean get injured in that fight?

    • She basically got straight out of Phoenix prison, and basically immediately knows about X-23. Even if I give you that, why X-23, Gabby or Gentle, over say any other martial artist or bruiser?

      You have to admit, Tom Taylor wanted to continue on his pet projects and the diversity hire. I can't think of any other reason Jean would pick them, let alone Tom Taylor would.

      I suppose I come more from a writing perspective of letting the characterizations of characters shape the journey and grow naturally, rather than write towards a predetermined set of milestones. I merely see the most likely intent and disapprove of it, in this case.

    • Gonna have to disagree there. All of Jean's 'challenges' have been fairly simple problems one after another. Very rarely have I seen a robust moral dilemma that gave her pause, only that something was in her way and she had proactive minions who could solve it.

      It is, in some way complexity. At it's core, it's putting the characters outside their comfort zone.

      What you actually get, though is the heroes fighting a smear campaign, ideological infiltration, 'the gender wage gap', and perhaps military persecution. All of those are very simply solved via force.

      Perhaps a simple plot line is good enough, but it unfortunately makes X-Men Red utterly forgettable (which is probably why I have trouble remembering all the finer minutia).

    • For the most part, the amount of heroes against one villain is just utterly disproportionate. In the new Fantastic Four, it's novel how Reed summons in everyone who has been in the FF, because its a twist, a homage, and a great riposte to a somewhat powerful villain.

      Secret Empire is somewhat less of a good twist or homage, but Cosmic Cube Hydra Cap had a similar threat level.

      If I put it into context with Cassandra Nova and her fleet of not-Helicarriers, does it seem like an even match? I mean, the Avengers have stories where they're fighting against Infinity Stones and Celestials, and ... well, I suppose the power creep has to be reversed at some point.

    • Ehhhhhhhhh, one could say she's done A and B. Also, the lack of "We protect our own", "We can live in peace", or "Mutants are superior" makes ABCD really wonky.

      For the most part, those aren't the tough choices I'm talking about - those come down to the scenario. Your ABCDE is an outline of the plot, not the individual choices that make the storyline compelling.

      Example - Thor (movie) destroys the Bifrost to spare Jottunheim, knowing that it will cut Asgard off from the other realms, instead of letting Jottunheim get destroyed. He even 'peacefully' pleads with Loki to stop the madness, but alas, trickster god. Thor (Dark World movie) goes lone wolf with Loki to bring the fight away from Asgard, instead of defending Asgard. Thor (Ragnarok movie) causes Ragnarok to stop his sister Hela from going on a killing spree.... well, yeah.

      Example - Captain America (First Avenger) flies the bomber into the antarctic blast chiller, instead of risking it landing somewhere where the bombs could kill anyone else. Captain America (Winter Soldier) blows up three helicarriers, thousands of SHIELD agents, civilians, and HYDRA agents, to make sure millions of people aren't blown away. Captain America (Civil War) fights for the preservation of his one friend, even if the chorus of opposition wants otherwise.

      Obviously, these are all movies, with shorter run-times, more condensed arcs, and a more rigid story structure to follow. You might even say that these aren't really choices, and are merely the natural conclusion any hero would follow. It's also feasible that Jean Grey wouldn't even have to make such choices in their steads, in lieu of her considerable powerset.

      But my point is, that great stories are defined by significant challenge, significant sacrifice, significant opportunity cost, and significant villainy. Clearly I expect too much from Comics, but that's honestly how I define the greatness of heroes - characters who live extraordinary lives and problems.

    • Like, six is a good mix-up. Five is barely enough to be a team. Four feels like DnD. Three feels like a Japanese RPG. Two makes for a great duo book.

      But most of all, it's the quality of the power team work, relationship potential, and friction. There's a weird lack of friction in X-Men Red, even with Namor on the book.

      Namor.

    • Gonna pull the depression card on me, eh?

      Granted, there are reserved characters like Gentle. There are cool and collected characters Storm, smooth operators like Gambit, absolute stoicism via X-23, bundles of joy as Gabby, and over analyzers like Trinary.

      I ponder what would satisfy me in this case, but I honestly think Tom Taylor has just steered the ship for too long. Jean is just way harder for me to pin down. Everything is just so fleeting with her. I accept that the comic must go on, and the team is just really big, making it difficult to have a proper conversation.

      And to analyse Jean, one would need some sort of prior history of behaviour, which is unavailable on account of the highly recent resurrection.

      As to what I'd be satisfied with, in terms of characterization... it would not be to make her like other characters. Simply put, there should be a notable repercussion for taking the path of peace and understanding, something that Jean is responsible for, and something Jean has to actually struggle with. It comes back to significant challenge, significant sacrifice, significant opportunity cost, and significant villainy. She can still be a girl scout, but from my perspective, she's one of the more invincible superheroes out there right now.

      And, again, while Jean ordered Trinary to not harm Storm, there was no compunctions with having someone kick her in the face (at least I think that's what happened). Dialogue that Jean gives in Wakanda is so fleetingly short - as I've said - that honeybadger's holiday takes up more page space.

      I don't doubt Jean has emotions, but I doubt she has decent emotional struggles.

    • Perfection.
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    marvelfan1992

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    @pyrofn please use the side-by-side format for scans if you're going to give so many. I enjoyed the content of your post but the big ass pictures make for a terrible experience

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    adamTRMM

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    @iamre321 said:
    @adamtrmm said:

    We need a retcon where it's revealed Jean was cheating on Scott with Logan occasionally and maybe even with others too.

    Yes I want the Xmen become so ruined the reboot will become inevitable.

    Hell no...

    No Caption Provided

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    njchrispatrick

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    #56  Edited By njchrispatrick

    I always liked the What If? with the world where Jean fell for Logan, and as a result The Dark Phoenix was unstoppable and destroyed everything. It sort of typified what made Jean and Scott such a dynamic couple; Jean was the strong, outspoken one, while Scott was the firm but withdrawn one. They were opposites, while Jean and Logan were a lot more similar. Jean and Logan had raw attraction, but he was bad for her on a deeper level.

    Telepaths always seem drawn to Scott because, although he has that cold exterior, he feels and cares very deeply inside, something which only telepaths tend to see. Wolverine is a lot more raw, and lacks restraint, and for Jean restraint is and was everything. I don't doubt that Jean was drawn to the wild temptation that was Logan, but Scott was her rock. I'd imagine that an added bonus was that, as a man with a very tough mind, he was someone who wouldn't overwhelm her and with whom she could feel at peace.

    Jean definitely cared for Logan, but I don't know that she's ever loved him fully. And if she has, it has never been in the way she loved Scott.

    (And I hope they don't change that now that all three are or are coming back--Wolverine is near the top of the list of characters I've hated since Avengers vs. X-Men, and I would outright give up on the comics as a whole if they did that.)

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    ursaber

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    Scotty

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    PyroFN

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    deactivated-60e87a786cc9c

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    I always liked the What If? with the world where Jean fell for Logan, and as a result The Dark Phoenix was unstoppable and destroyed everything. It sort of typified what made Jean and Scott such a dynamic couple; Jean was the strong, outspoken one, while Scott was the firm but withdrawn one. They were opposites, while Jean and Logan were a lot more similar. Jean and Logan had raw attraction, but he was bad for her on a deeper level.

    Telepaths always seem drawn to Scott because, although he has that cold exterior, he feels and cares very deeply inside, something which only telepaths tend to see. Wolverine is a lot more raw, and lacks restraint, and for Jean restraint is and was everything. I don't doubt that Jean was drawn to the wild temptation that was Logan, but Scott was her rock. I'd imagine that an added bonus was that, as a man with a very tough mind, he was someone who wouldn't overwhelm her and with whom she could feel at peace.

    Jean definitely cared for Logan, but I don't know that she's ever loved him fully. And if she has, it has never been in the way she loved Scott.

    (And I hope they don't change that now that all three are or are coming back--Wolverine is near the top of the list of characters I've sinceAvengers vs. X-Men, and I would outright give up on the comics as a whole if they did that.)

    You missed something there?

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    marvelfan1992

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    tensor

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    Scott she married him an they had chemistry until it all went to hell.

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    TheInsufferable

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    #62  Edited By TheInsufferable

    @adamtrmm said:
    @iamre321 said:
    @adamtrmm said:

    We need a retcon where it's revealed Jean was cheating on Scott with Logan occasionally and maybe even with others too.

    Yes I want the Xmen become so ruined the reboot will become inevitable.

    Hell no...

    No Caption Provided

    Yeah, and I want Jean's "Scott" scream before her death in Dark Phoenix Saga to be retconned into being the result of Charles' meddling. She was actually screaming CHAAAAAARLES.

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    njchrispatrick

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    @mrnihal said:
    @njchrispatrick said:

    I always liked the What If? with the world where Jean fell for Logan, and as a result The Dark Phoenix was unstoppable and destroyed everything. It sort of typified what made Jean and Scott such a dynamic couple; Jean was the strong, outspoken one, while Scott was the firm but withdrawn one. They were opposites, while Jean and Logan were a lot more similar. Jean and Logan had raw attraction, but he was bad for her on a deeper level.

    Telepaths always seem drawn to Scott because, although he has that cold exterior, he feels and cares very deeply inside, something which only telepaths tend to see. Wolverine is a lot more raw, and lacks restraint, and for Jean restraint is and was everything. I don't doubt that Jean was drawn to the wild temptation that was Logan, but Scott was her rock. I'd imagine that an added bonus was that, as a man with a very tough mind, he was someone who wouldn't overwhelm her and with whom she could feel at peace.

    Jean definitely cared for Logan, but I don't know that she's ever loved him fully. And if she has, it has never been in the way she loved Scott.

    (And I hope they don't change that now that all three are or are coming back--Wolverine is near the top of the list of characters I've sinceAvengers vs. X-Men, and I would outright give up on the comics as a whole if they did that.)

    You missed something there?

    Whoops, my bad. Thanks for that. Characters I've hated.

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    njchrispatrick

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    @marvelfan1992: I mean everyone knows he will, though. Not just because this is X-Men and no one stays dead, but because I know Marvel writers can't resist the drama of having those three all alive together again. It is only a question of how and in what form.

    If Scott comes back and is all repentant and such I will be so annoyed because him becoming what he did was the best and most fluid character development in any comic I have ever read.

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    deactivated-60e87a786cc9c

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    @marvelfan1992:

    If Scott comes back and is all repentant and such I will be so annoyed because him becoming what he did was the best and most fluid character development in any comic I have ever read.

    You speak the truth.It's sad that hardly people see that.

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    njchrispatrick

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    @mrnihal said:
    @njchrispatrick said:

    @marvelfan1992:

    If Scott comes back and is all repentant and such I will be so annoyed because him becoming what he did was the best and most fluid character development in any comic I have ever read.

    You speak the truth.It's sad that hardly people see that.

    For all the problems many people had with it, I will always love how House of M influenced the writers of X-Men. It spawned some of the best character arcs--Xavier losing his powers and having to travel the path of redemption and acceptance, Scott being forced to step up as a leader and make the hard choices even though people hated him for it, not to mention them smoothly sidestepping the Xavier/Magneto debate with that "the future walked around us" comment.

    Though, the one that never made sense to me was Wolverine's, with the whole Schism thing. Like, I got what they were trying to do, and playing on the old rivalry helped, but it made way less sense for Logan to become anti-child-soldiers than, say, Storm or Beast.

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    @mrnihal said:
    @njchrispatrick said:

    @marvelfan1992:

    If Scott comes back and is all repentant and such I will be so annoyed because him becoming what he did was the best and most fluid character development in any comic I have ever read.

    You speak the truth.It's sad that hardly people see that.

    For all the problems many people had with it, I will always love how House of M influenced the writers of X-Men. It spawned some of the best character arcs--Xavier losing his powers and having to travel the path of redemption and acceptance, Scott being forced to step up as a leader and make the hard choices even though people hated him for it, not to mention them smoothly sidestepping the Xavier/Magneto debate with that "the future walked around us" comment.

    Though, the one that never made sense to me was Wolverine's, with the whole Schism thing. Like, I got what they were trying to do, and playing on the old rivalry helped, but it made way less sense for Logan to become anti-child-soldiers than, say, Storm or Beast.

    Storm would've made for sense since she already had problems with Scott's X-force.

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    njchrispatrick

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    @mrnihal said:
    @njchrispatrick said:
    @mrnihal said:
    @njchrispatrick said:

    @marvelfan1992:

    If Scott comes back and is all repentant and such I will be so annoyed because him becoming what he did was the best and most fluid character development in any comic I have ever read.

    You speak the truth.It's sad that hardly people see that.

    For all the problems many people had with it, I will always love how House of M influenced the writers of X-Men. It spawned some of the best character arcs--Xavier losing his powers and having to travel the path of redemption and acceptance, Scott being forced to step up as a leader and make the hard choices even though people hated him for it, not to mention them smoothly sidestepping the Xavier/Magneto debate with that "the future walked around us" comment.

    Though, the one that never made sense to me was Wolverine's, with the whole Schism thing. Like, I got what they were trying to do, and playing on the old rivalry helped, but it made way less sense for Logan to become anti-child-soldiers than, say, Storm or Beast.

    Storm would've made for sense since she already had problems with Scott's X-force.

    Exactly. And, as a person, it would have made more sense. Logan as a leader I can sort of see, that was kind of a building theme over a long period of time. But still very much the anti-hero of the X-Men. I mean there are a ton of issues, many of them not long before Schism, with him advocating for the younger ones learning to fight. Armor especially, I recall.

    I didn't totally get it, but it sort of worked. AvX just plain ruined his character though. Storm, Beast, and Logan all ended up as super hypocritical because the writers were trying way too hard to make Scott actually look like a villain.

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    PyroFN

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    @theinsufferable: Make it so that Jean was yelling out her murderer in the Saga, for it was Xavier who activated the gun!!!!

    DUN DUN DUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!!!

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    @adamtrmm: Creeper alert. Keep him away from...well, people period.

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    iamre321

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    @iamre321: I’m honestly with you. If marvel ever puts out a team up series between Emma and Jean, I’d buy every comic like 100 times

    Lol same, they need to either go with my X-men White idea or do a Emma and Jean team up comic... I'd be soo popular.

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    @ashetdust: She is without the phoenix force this time so no DF. She is Au Natural and kickin ass already!

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    ursaber

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    Aren't there already like a hundred of these polls!?

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    @ursaber said:

    Aren't there already like a hundred of these polls!?

    This has been trend now.

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    @mrnihal: Not lucky. It’s widely known Scott is Jeans love. The fact that Jott fans need that validation is interesting.

    Doesn’t change the fact that Jean and Scott getting back together is a bad idea.

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    @pyrofn said:

    @mrnihal: Not lucky. It’s widely known Scott is Jeans love. The fact that Jott fans need that validation is interesting.

    Doesn’t change the fact that Jean and Scott getting back together is a bad idea.

    I can see it's the other way around.LMAO.

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    jhazzroucher

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    Jean and Wolverine knew each other before she got married to Scott .

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    PyroFN

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    @mrnihal: “The other way around?”

    As in like Wolverine is Jeans love? Or that Jean is Scott’s love?

    The first is up in the air. It’s never been fully explored in continuity and alternate universes can’t be trusted because there are situations where it works out and where it doesn’t.

    The second is true. @hopesummersforthefuture will be more than happy to keep pointing out why Scott would choose Jean over Emma.

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    Jean and Wolverine knew each other before she got married to Scott .

    What's that have to do with anything?

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    @pyrofn said:

    @mrnihal: “The other way around?”

    As in like Wolverine is Jeans love? Or that Jean is Scott’s love?

    The first is up in the air. It’s never been fully explored in continuity and alternate universes can’t be trusted because there are situations where it works out and where it doesn’t.

    The second is true. @hopesummersforthefuture will be more than happy to keep pointing out why Scott would choose Jean over Emma.

    See??!It's logan & jean fans are trying to a upper ground.Not gonna happen in next ten years.And yeah those kisses never mean anything to jean. @elpendejo

    Try hard next time P-Y-R-O-F-N.

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    PyroFN

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    @mrnihal: Is that your way of trying to prove Scott did nothing wrong? Even if Jean was written to do the exact same things Scott did, Scott still wouldn’t have been getting a pass. Jean simply would’ve been as wrong as he was.

    This is where we use the “two wrongs don’t make a right”.

    Back to what I was saying, I said “It’s up in the air”. That means I don’t know. No one really knows.

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    @pyrofn said:

    @mrnihal: Is that your way of trying to prove Scott did nothing wrong? Even if Jean was written to do the exact same things Scott did, Scott still wouldn’t have been getting a pass. Jean simply would’ve been as wrong as he was.

    This is where we use the “two wrongs don’t make a right”.

    No.Scott has much to blame for.Things like "confide in logan","that kiss means nothing to her(@elpendejo)","still chose scott" are your ways to make a point that jean has always been a saint in her marriage/relationship.

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    @mrnihal said:
    @pyrofn said:

    @mrnihal: Is that your way of trying to prove Scott did nothing wrong? Even if Jean was written to do the exact same things Scott did, Scott still wouldn’t have been getting a pass. Jean simply would’ve been as wrong as he was.

    This is where we use the “two wrongs don’t make a right”.

    No. Scott has much to blame for.

    Yes, he did, and he did nothing about it. It's no excuse for Jean to do it, but it's Scott's responsibility to say hey "Jean, what the hell! You cheated on me with Logan?!". Not to mention that Scott didn't even mention Logan as a reason for his cheating on Jean, so if that was a problem, he sure didn't bring up with Jean about it, or Emma for that matter, who he has no reason to hide from.

    Things like "confide in logan",

    Well, pardon me then! Excuse Jean Grey for going to a trusted friend about her troubles. Shame on Jean for choosing to not carry a burden weighing on her mind. I had no idea it counted as cheating to talk to a trusted friend about your troubles. That slut!

    Stop being ridiculous.

    "that kiss means nothing to her(@elpendejo)",

    Don't spit what other people said at me. I already acknowledged what Jean did as wrong. I don't know what that kiss meant for Jean, but it sure as hell changed nothing.

    "still chose scott" are your ways to make a point that jean has always been a saint in her marriage/relationship.

    Wrong. They are my way of saying that Scott gave up on the relationship. I never glorified what Jean did as right, nor did I deny that she was a flawed individual. In fact, I have gone on rants about people who see Jean as a Mary Sue when in reality, she is no different from any normal person with imperfections and mistakes.

    But hey, kudos to you for making your point about Scott. Scott did nothing wrong. He is such a pure, chaste individual. Yes, by pointing out how flawed Jean Grey is and on how she has done wrong before, you clearly shown just how much of holy man the perfect, infallible Scott Summers is.

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    @pyrofn: just so you know, I’m on your side in all this

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    @pyrofn:

    1.Because Scott has been the better partner about it.He thought it'll go way but it never did.

    2.Back to square one.Sure your "trusted friend" about your marriage problem will be the guy who's trying to break your relationship for years.I wonder in"real world" people do that as you so often love to use that scenerio. Not to mention jean had the advance towards him.

    3.I guess tagging other is wrong.And sure it didn't change anything.It has been the same since logan joined.

    4.And this is my way of saying jean also gave up her "relationship" but it was slow process unlike for Scott which happened in morrison's run, for jean it's a long way coming.And what Scott did was not right also.

    5.As previously said in this post and my previous post "Scott has much to be blamed for".Ranting about which aren't told will not give about bonus point.lol.But geez looks like i got on your nerver.

    @elpendejo: What a surprising twist,no body saw it coming.I wonder now why i tagged you in the first place.

    Whatever,i guess this will be my last post to you guys about this matter.Most Scott fans ignore your full on trash talk about Scott through out the X-boards.I'll be joining them too.

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    @mrnihal: 1) Right because that is how relationships get saved. “Because you kept quiet Scott, I totally stopped falling for Logan”. Communication saves relationships or you from any unnecessary heartbreak. Not keeping it to yourself to stew in because you’re trying to be a good husband to a bad wife.

    2) Except Wolverine hasn’t been trying to break up Scott and Jean for years. I don’t know where you got that from, but Logan has not been trying to break up Scott and Jean after they married. The times before, yeah, He has. He stopped after Scott and Jeans wedding, even actually saving it from being crashed.

    3) Jean didn’t make any advances. She talked about her problems to a trusted friend. A friend who has not only had her back, but has actually saved her life before. Talking to a friend is not an invitation believe it or not, no matter what your romantic history is.

    4) Yup. And quite frankly, it isn’t easy to keep rejecting the same guy who won’t stop flirting with you, especially if you’re attracted to him. (And again, luckily, Logan did stop) Scott didn’t do much better in regards to women either, I just want to point out, with Psylocke and Emma as the most notable examples. Where Jean went years of rejecting Logan, Scott would only last a short time before Jean would step in to try to get the women to back off.

    5) Wrong. Jean didn’t give up on the relationship. That’s why I keep saying “Scott chose Emma, Jean chose Scott”. Jean never stopped trying to make her marriage work. Logan couldn’t get her to change her mind, neither could Psylocke, and neither could Emma. Only Scott could. There was no slow burn, Jean was not planning an ultimate break up that would last years. Jean was fully invested in Cyclops.

    6) Actually, your exact words were “Scott has much to blame for”, forgetting to put in “be” and the “ed” at the end of “blame”. As a result, I took it as “Scott has much to blame Jean for”.

    Yeah, you kind of did got on my nerve. The thing that hit the nerve was the “saint Jean” thing. If it is one thing I don’t do, it’s glorify Jean when she is wrong.

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